The Boss on the Beeb

Subject: RE: The Boss on the Beeb
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 06 - 11:12 AM

A far cry better than Billy Bragg's Woody stuff. It sounds good to these ears. Don't like it as much as I loved 'Nebraska' but that's ok. When you see him perform live, he has always done some acoustic songs, and they are always one of my favorite parts of his shows. He usually picks his live acoustic songs from his Nebraska stuff, but now I'm sure folks who get to see him live will get to hear a couple of tunes from this album.

While I don't see Springsteen in a traditional music vein, I do see him as being a contemporary descendant of all that the tradition stands for, and means to we the people in a broader social context.

One could even say Springsteen, like the Beatles, are some of the rare pop and rock musicians who have successfully "traditionalized" their commercial music by the sheer power of their talent and personal charisma with so many of us 'folk'.

As sexy as 'Nebraska' et al is though, I have to say the Boss truly doesn't understand the American Midwest. He does decaying industrial East Coast better than anybody. But as far as Midwestern sensibilities, not so much. But we love him for trying anyway.

Subject: RE: The Boss on the Beeb
From: Sooz
Date: 14 May 06 - 06:56 AM

Burning on to a CD as I type. Great stuff. Now looking forward to seeing it on Friday!

Subject: RE: The Boss on the Beeb
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 May 06 - 06:36 AM

Actualy did manage to listen to most of:-) And mu opinion remains the same - What a good show! Capturing it to MP3 as I speak so I can listen again.

and again

and again

and again

Anyone else catch it btw?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: The Boss on the Beeb
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 May 06 - 07:30 AM

Sorry for the confusion (It's me that's confused) I only managed to catch a bit because only a bit was available - The rest is not available until after the concert tonight! You can listen tonight or listen to it for 7 days after by clicking the link I provided!

At least I know what I am doing. Now, where did I put my trousers...

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: The Boss on the Beeb
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 May 06 - 05:33 AM

Only managed to catch a little but what I did was magnificent! It says on the web site it is on listen again but I don't think the link is up properly yet - May be after 10pm BST today.

Banjoray, don't click here - Anyone else, feel free:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: The Boss on the Beeb
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 12 May 06 - 09:16 AM

"What Springsteen is doing is producing consumer product, not musical tradition. Therein lies the difference.

Pete Seeger did both, with a foot in the world of traditional music, and a foot in the world of commercial consumer product.

Springsteen only does one: commercial consumer product.

Reasonable arguments can be made that Springsteen, much as I adore him, isn't doing a bloody thing to "introduce" people to traditional music."

I don't think anyone has claimed that Bruce Springsteen is doing anything other than producing music. I don't think his intent was to "introduce" people to music either.   What he is doing is following Pete Seeger's lead and MAKING music that carries traditional songs into his own world.

As for "having a foot in the world of traditional music" - that is a very hard aspect to define. As soon as a song is sung in front of a microphone or an audience it looses it's "tradition".

Subject: RE: The Boss on the Beeb
From: GUEST
Date: 11 May 06 - 08:48 PM

Whoa nellie.

On one hand, I agree the org is musically conservative. I have no problem with that whatsoever. There is most definitely a place, central to the music, imo, for musical conservatism when it comes to preserving and handing traditional music.

On the other hand, I have no problem with Springsteen doing a pop version of it, any more than I mind that English artists have done same.

But let's be clear. What Springsteen is doing is producing consumer product, not musical tradition. Therein lies the difference.

Pete Seeger did both, with a foot in the world of traditional music, and a foot in the world of commercial consumer product.

Springsteen only does one: commercial consumer product.

Reasonable arguments can be made that Springsteen, much as I adore him, isn't doing a bloody thing to "introduce" people to traditional music.

And I don't think such arguments would be far off the mark, either.

Now, does that mean Springsteen is a bad person or a bad musician? No. It just means his music values are very different from that of a traditional musician.

Subject: RE: The Boss on the Beeb
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 11 May 06 - 05:27 PM

By the way Ray, you completely took Stephen's words out of context and made it sound like something he never said.   If you read it the way I think Stephen meant it, he is saying that creativity and creating work is the hallmark of true artists and that is what keeps rock and roll and folk music alive.

Subject: RE: The Boss on the Beeb
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 11 May 06 - 05:23 PM

"I'm annoyed because they aren't good versions - to my ears. How they sound like to yours is your business."

Ray, I respect your opinion - but you made it "our" business when you posted "your" opinion on Mudcat.

As for Springsteen not having a clue for the "style" - what style would that be? Clearly Pete Seeger utilized his own creative license when he recorded and performed the songs, in the same way that Springsteen does with his creativity.

These songs are not meant to be owned. The most respected critics, and the ones who people pay any attention to, are the ones who tend to write their reviews with some knowledge of what the artist was trying to accomplish and how they lived up to that standard. I don't think the review that you posted shows any objectivity or understanding.

Subject: RE: The Boss on the Beeb
From: BanjoRay
Date: 11 May 06 - 05:00 PM

"Bruce Springsteen ....is the main reason .... folk music is nowadays still very much alive".
Good grief! Guest Stephen's missed out on a lot of fine stuff.
The reason I'm looking at Springsteen's threads at the moment is purely because of what he's perpetrating in the name of a style he clearly doesn't have a clue about. I've no opinion at all on any other aspect of his career.
I'm not annoyed because the covers don't sound like the originals - many good versions of these songs don't sound like the originals.
I'm annoyed because they aren't good versions - to my ears. How they sound like to yours is your business.
Ray

Subject: RE: The Boss on the Beeb
From: GUEST,Stephan
Date: 11 May 06 - 02:02 PM

I have read several threads on Springsteen, and found the name BanjoRay repeatedly. Criticizing constantly. Perhaps he should call himself gnome, as he does nothing but post grumpy, irrelevant and uninformed posts. It is naturally his good right to dislike Bruce Springsteens' work but he follows an awful lot of threads on an artist he can't even appreciate. Moreover, how can you criticise a whole album if you have only heard a couple of tracks? He's annoyed with the fact the ocvers don't sound like the originals. How conservative. As stated by Bruce Springsteen himself; this album is inspired by..... that holds all the difference.

In my opinion, Bruce Springsteen is a true artist. A true artist in the sense he creates his own work, can criticise his own work, puts thought in his work, has something to say apart from the standard thirteen in a dozen "I-love-you-I-hate-you-I-love-you-again" theme, and moreover is the main reason rock and roll and folk music is nowadays still very much alive.

Subject: RE: The Boss on the Beeb
From: Brakn
Date: 11 May 06 - 11:41 AM

Well said Dave.

Subject: RE: The Boss on the Beeb
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 May 06 - 11:27 AM

Ahhh - Gotcha. I disagree though. "Friends Of American Old Time Music And Dance" does a bit more than imply. It tells me that the society the are involved in the old time music and dance of America.

What is more, by choosing the word 'friends', they more than imply that they like that type of music and dance. When I say that the name says it all I mean that it does tell me an awful lot about their ideas. I would not expect such a society to be overly enamoured of Springsteens music any more than I would expect a hard rock society to approve of a folk version of 'Smoke on the Water'.

The tone of their article does seem to prove me right I think. What does surprise me is that anyone would presume to tell me what I should consider good or bad music. I may not be an 'Old Timer' in the sense that the critic meant but I will certainly never see 50 again. Even so, I can't even imagine why he or she should tell me that Mr Springsteens work is good for nothing but putting coffee on.

I, for one, would not dream of telling the reviewer that his or her music is bad. I will simply put it down to a difference in culture and character and carry on listening to music from all and every source. Deciding for myself what I do and do not like. Remember the old maxim? Those that can, do. Those that cannot, criticise:-)

Oh, and as for Dave the Gnome. I am surprised you have not figured that one out. My name is Dave. I am short, fat and ugly. I am grumpy and the guardian of a secret treasure. So, yes I suppose, it does also say it all:-)

Cheers and keep playing that good old time music.

DtG

Subject: RE: The Boss on the Beeb
From: BanjoRay
Date: 11 May 06 - 10:12 AM

When you say "The Friends of etc says it all" what are you implying it says? It doesn't tell you all about the society any more than 'Dave The Gnome' tells me all about you.
Ray

Subject: RE: The Boss on the Beeb
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 May 06 - 09:50 AM

Sorry, Ray. Don't uderstand that - Too deep for this little brain! Can you explain please?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: The Boss on the Beeb
From: BanjoRay
Date: 11 May 06 - 09:38 AM

The Friends Of American Old Time Music And Dance Says it all, I think
Only in the sense that 'Dave The Gnome' says it all
Ray

Subject: RE: The Boss on the Beeb
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 11 May 06 - 09:37 AM

I think the Friends of Old Time Music & Dance have a singular vision of what the music is supposed to sound like, so it is not surprising. I am not knocking their work or their view, what they have accomplished has helped keep the style alive and thriving. What they are missing though is the living tradition aspect of the music. It is one thing to keep a flower pressed in a book, but it truly another experience to grow one yourself!

Subject: RE: The Boss on the Beeb
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 May 06 - 05:09 AM

The Friends Of American Old Time Music And Dance Says it all, I think;-) Bit like EFDSS?

I respectfuly suggest that they avoid bands like Steeleye Span, Fairport Convention and, most definietely, The Pogues:-)

Thanks for the info about it being on Beeb 4 as well - A must see if ever I saw one!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: The Boss on the Beeb
From: BanjoRay
Date: 10 May 06 - 08:11 PM

You're fired!

Subject: RE: The Boss on the Beeb
From: Shiplap Structure3
Date: 10 May 06 - 08:06 PM

oops I thought this was an Alan Sugar thread

Subject: RE: The Boss on the Beeb
From: GUEST
Date: 10 May 06 - 06:03 PM

Nothing wrong with updating the sound of "folk" songs. These are songs that change over time anyway - so why the uproar? I personally find the music uplifting to listen to which is a far cry from most things in the mainstream nowadays - and if it causes people to find out more about Seeger and the genre then that's all the better as well. Here's to a sequel Bruce!

Subject: RE: The Boss on the Beeb
From: BanjoRay
Date: 10 May 06 - 05:43 PM

This is what one of the members of The Friends Of American Old Time Music And Dance (a fine musician, by the way) who shall be nameless wrote in to our magazine The Old Time News:

A personal view...............

I wish to report multiple murders.

The victims are songs of Pete Seeger, including some old time numbers we know and love.

The guilty party is Bruce Springsteeen, who has single handedly done more damage on one album than any other person alive or dead.

I have not bought the album, but have simply heard a couple of tracks on the radio. His version of "Old Dan Tucker" is unparalleled in its awfulness and one has to wonder what Seeger ever did to Springsteen to justify such retaliation.

Old timers should avoid buying this album at all costs, unless you are running short of coasters on which to stand hot cups of coffee.

For what it's worth...................

I thoroughly agree, having heard a few tracks myself.
Cheers
Ray

Subject: RE: The Boss on the Beeb
From: Mrs_Annie
Date: 10 May 06 - 03:10 PM

It's going to be on BBC4 next Friday:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/music/features/bruce-springsteen.shtml

Subject: RE: The Boss on the Beeb
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 06 - 02:56 PM

This is a brand new concert - It was recorded last night in London in front of an audience of only 300! I think it is Radio only but I could be wrong. I am pretty sure it will be on listen again. Dunno if will be available as a podcast as well.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: The Boss on the Beeb
From: Anonny Mouse
Date: 10 May 06 - 01:44 PM

Been on a coupla times here-PBS or some other non-commercial networks. The Seeger Sessions is interesting in the mix of folks sitting in, and Springsteen's informality (yet respect) toward Pete's legacy. Nice to see something like this done before Pete is gone. His book on "How To Play The Five String Banjo" is still a worthy bible for many. The songs will, of course, live beyond him. Decent TV. Watch it if it comes your way.

Subject: The Boss on the Beeb
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 06 - 01:11 PM

Don't miss it! Bruce Springsteen and the Seegar Sessions Band 9pm Saturday May 13th. I just heard a preview on the Chris Evans Show. They did 'My Oklahoma Home' and it was brilliant. Went from Bluegrass to Swing and got to some of the places other music can't reach:-)

See this for more details.

Cheers

DtG