BS: Advice needed on fox

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: Bee
Date: 17 Mar 07 - 01:31 PM

Even domestic critters may bite when ill. (Been tempted to bite someone myself, when really ill.)

Poor old fox! Hope things work out for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 17 Mar 07 - 12:46 PM

I hope thinngs work out,Lynne. While Britain doesn't have a rabies issue, is there a problem with distemper? (which may manifest in some of the same symptoms as you describe.)
I like foxes they are beautiful animals but I also mind what my father always advised that generally wild animals retain a wild core and that will likely show up as he grows ill. Heavy gloves is a sensible precaution.
Again I hope all works out and you can tend to the critter or at least make his last days a bit more comfortable. Neil

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: MBSLynne
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 02:04 PM

Well it's not looking good for the fox. He spent last night in one of the buildings and when my boss and her husband were milking, turned up in the milking parlour. They couldn't get him out and in the end had to push him with a broom. He then went and lay down and wouldn't get up. My boss went to 'phone the RSPCA to get them to come and put him down as he is obviously ill. At that point the vet arrived to do the annual TB test. As he opened his boot and started to get stuff out the fox leaped up and ran and hasn't been seen since. He's obviously been taken to the vet before!

I have given my boss the 'phone number for the National Fox Welfare thingy and the sheet about feeding them. Still haven't heard from Derbyshire Foxes though. We now just have to wait and see if he turns up

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: MBSLynne
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 10:18 AM

Nice one bobad! I can never understand people who have violent dislikes for certain animals (and I don't mean phobias, which they can't help). I know loads of people who really hate rats. Ok, they carry a lot of nasty diseases, but the rat itself can't help that...it just does what it was born to do. There is nothing evil, cruel, spiteful about it. The same with foxes. People get very uptight about them because they kill hens and other poultry. They do it because they are hungry, not with malice. On one of the sites I was looking at it says "If a fox kills your pets or livestock, it's not the fox's fault, it's yours" I don't dislike any creature...they just do what they were made to do.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: bobad
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 09:14 AM

I'm with you there kat, here's a poem from Walt Whitman:

Animals

I think i could turn and live with animals ,

    they are so placid and self-contained

I stand and look at them long and long .

They do not sweat and whine about their condition ,

They do not lie awake in the dark and weep for their sins ,

They do not make me sick discussing their duty to God ,

Not one is dissatisfied ,

    not one is demented with the mania of owning things ,

Not one kneels to another ,

    nor to his kind that lived thousands of years ago ,

Not one is respectable or industrious over the whole earth .

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 09:09 AM

I love watching Animal Cops on Animal Planet. It's good to see them rescuing poor animals and even going to court against the terrible owners, etc.

Sounds like a wonderful little fellow, MBSLynne. I wish you luck with him and whatever is decided about him.

If I had to choose between a world with animals or humans, animals would win hands down.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: MBSLynne
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 08:22 AM

Yes I agree PA.

The neighbour I mentioned actually had three little dogs in there at one point while he was still living there. His girlfriend of the time moved out and took one with her and the others were just left in the yard and fed...no other attention. A guy who owned a haulage yard across the road knocked on my door one day to say he'd found a little dog and did I know whose it was. I told him to try next door but said neighbour never answered the door even when he was in so the man went away. A couple of weeks later I asked him what had happened to it. He shrugged and said "I could never get an answer so I gave it to my daughter." The daughter had one larger dog so they actually bought a little stool so the small dog could get up on the settee with the big one! I was very glad it had gone to a loving home.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: The PA
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 07:55 AM

The RSPCA can only advise on how the animal should be cared for, check out the horse on their website which was left with the owner for a further three weeks even though it was skin and bone, infested with worms and lice! -   The owner has to actually sign over the animal to them before they can remove it.
Some might say that their hands are tied, but its the RSPCA themselves who should be campaigning for a change in the law.

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: Bee
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 07:40 AM

Lynne, that's horrifying. Friends of mine have a tiny dog (I think it is a longhaired chihuahua) which was rescued by a carpenter they knew. He was working at a house, and saw, next house over, this tiny dog in a cage outdoors. Eventually he was bothered enough to take a closer look and realised the dog was half frozen and accompanied by some dead pups. All he could think of was getting her out of there, never mind calling in the law, so he went to the owners and offered them an extravagant amount of cash to sell him the dog, which they did.

She was actually frozen to the cage bottom. He got her out, and a few days later turned her over to my friends, where she lives a pampered, happy indoor life. Sweet pretty dog, and I'm not a fan of tiny dogs. Some humans should be left out in the snow, honestly.

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: MBSLynne
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 07:26 AM

Surely that's one of the things the RSPCA WILL act on? I thought leaving an animal without water was one of their criteria.

We used to have a neighbour (well we still do, but fortunately he no longer keeps animals) who neglected his animals terribly. On one occasion he was out for 12 hours leaving a Jack Russel puppy in a rabbit hutch. The poor little thing was screaming by the end of the day. On another occasion he went away for the weekend leaving his small dog (a different one) in a yard about 9' square. It had a brick 'kennel' but he just left what he thought would be enough water and food for the weekend. He then moved out and in with his girlfriend leaving the dog living in the yard. He would come round for an hour a day to attend to it. Appsrently none of this was enough for the RSPCA to act on. They did come round when he had rabbits in his shed left on 8" of their own muck and without water. They removed some dead birds which we hadn't known were there and a rabbit. All that happened was that he agreed not to do it again and that he would allow them in to inspect once a month. I've never seen them since.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: skipy
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 06:28 AM

Just found out, the travellers have "dealt" with problem! The remaining 17 horse have been penned into a small and I mean small field, yet again without water!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: The PA
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 06:06 AM

Oops, wrong key!
RSPCA did nothing - absolutely nothing despite at least 10 complaints.

Support the Blue Cross they will care for any animal in distress and make sure that the 'owner' is dealt with.

The rant really is over this time!

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: The PA
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 06:03 AM

Lynne the Blue Cross are most definitely up and running and very worthwhile. We have just rehomed a really pretty shetland/welsh cross who's taken a bit of a beating at her previous home. We paid a £50 donation and in return we get the pony on loan for life, wormers paid for for this year, and all her vaccinations paid for for life. Take a look at the website very informative. We offered a home to a shetland pony from the RSPCA, but we were turned down as we were too far for the inspectors to travel to check us out!
Last year we had a herd of mixed coloured horses left in a field in the next village probably on their way to god knows where. No grass middle of winter no feed or hay, so they started eating their way through the garden hedges. RSPCA

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: skipy
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 05:09 AM

PA, thanks for that, hopefully now that we have (sadly) had a fatality that put human life at risk our boys in blue may do something!
Lynne, with you all the way on that one.
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: MBSLynne
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 05:00 AM

I haven't actually heard anything about the Blue Cross for years and didn't know they were still operating. I shall have to go and have a look for a website

Donkeys or foxes, I say Treat all animals kindly for fox sake!

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: The PA
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 04:20 AM

Just a note re the horses mentioned, if anyone needs help with horses abandonded/roaming etc, please do not bother the RSPCA, as far as horses are concerned the RSPCA are a total waste of space. The Blue Cross are far better equipped and dedicated, as are the ILPH. We've been involved with horses, both rescued, competition and as pets, for over 40 years and I wouldn't waist the price of a phone call on the RSPCA.
Rant over, do carry on.

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: skipy
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 04:02 AM

Have poeple been treating donkeys kindly for foxes years too?
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: GUEST,Reynard
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 03:50 AM

Treat it kindly, people have been feeding and caring for urban foxes in England for donkeys years.

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: MBSLynne
Date: 16 Mar 07 - 02:47 AM

Vulgar Boatman, I've just read up on sarcoptic mange on the Fox welfare website and it says that a lot of people believe that the mite which causes it is the same one as the scabies mite. This is not true and sarcoptic mange is not in any way transmissable to humans.

No, rabies isn't an issue in Britain I'm glad to say.

My boss says that she checked, and the RSPCA's policy on foxes is to put them down or leave them alone. I must say I haven't generally found the RSPCA to be very helpful in the past. Like so many organizations they have become so bogged down with rules, regulations and beauracracy that they can't do much in a lot of situations.

From what I've seen, this guy isn't going to bite us unless we do something silly, though I'm not intending to make a habit of stroking him. The urge is there though, when I look round and see him following me about!

So...I wait for a reply from Derbyshire Foxes and take my boss the 'phone number I've found for the Fox Welfare people and see where we go from there. I'll also print off and take the page from DF website about what to feed them.

skipy, I'm surprised travellers are leaving their horses untended. Whatever their failings, they are usually pretty good about looking after their horses. Can't you gradually kidnap them all one by one? I'm sure there would be heaps of people who would give them homes.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: Hawker
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 08:43 PM

The RSPCA website has a leaflet about foxes, what to feed them and what you can catch from them it is at this link (sorry not a clickie!)
http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/BlobServer?blobtable=RSPCABlob&blobcol=urlblob&blobkey=id&blobwhere=1024473253585&blobheader=application/pdf
They will euathanase if the animal is deemed to be suffering and is beyond redemption, but when I worked there as a teenager, we had several foxes and fox cubs brought in that were all tended back to good health and released into the wild.
Cheers, Lucy

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 08:36 PM

No offense meant, Lynne.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 08:33 PM

Derbyshire Fox Rescue sound the right people to have got in touch with - here is their website.

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: Bee
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 08:10 PM

Bobert, Britain is a rabies free island, I believe. The fox may have diseases, but rabies will not be present.

MBSLynne is likely correct - a fat and old fox has been fed by humans regularly.

And, for the guest above - a moggie is a cat.

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 07:52 PM

The RSPCA's usual solution to any animal problem is to euthanize it.

Feed it for the meanwhile and see how things develop sounds reasonable.

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: Hawker
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 07:38 PM

Lynne, The local RSPCA will be able to help you. You could try contactiong them?
Cheers, Lucy

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 06:45 PM

Ummmm, I hate to play a different tune but...

...foxes ain't all that social with people and when you see them it's usually because they are rabied... A rabied fox will come around people...

What you see as acting old may indeed be indicative of rabies...

Now I love all God's critters, even possums, but this guy may be bad news...

Feed him, water him but don't go near him...

...plus call yer local extension agent and ask thenm about yer fox...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: The Vulgar Boatman
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 06:22 PM

Lynne, disease is definitely an issue, albeit remote - heavy gloves advised because, obviously, they can bite and are known to carry a variety of bacteria which is known to cause osteomyelitis. This can seriously inconvenience you. Probably over-cautious, but having had a fox bite clean through heavy bridle leather (it appeared to be trying to take it away for reasons best known to itself...), you'll be in a better condition to look after it if it doesn't fang you. Sarcoptic mange is otherwise known as scabies - it's not difficult to treat if you can make the animal amenable to treatment, but it is transmissable to peoples.
Good luck to you and the fox.

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: Sorcha
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 06:15 PM

Abandoned horses are becoming a huge problem in Kentucky, US too. So are the 'wild horses' of the West. Some really are wild mustangs but a lot are just abandoned pleasure/saddle horses. Sad.

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: GUEST,mmm1a
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 06:13 PM

Skipy
What is a moggie? I'm not familiar with that term.

                mmm

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: skipy
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 05:34 PM

MBSL, I am sure that you know what you are doing & that he is in safe hands, it's a wonderful story just starting to unfold, do please keep us up to date. We have a fox at the back of one of our factories, he turns up when he pleases, trots about & then disappears into the bushes it's joy and an honour to see him. We also have a very large ferral moggie, an owl, 100s of rabbits, a woodpecker, loads of tits (so I'm happy there then!) a blackbird with a white head (yes, we call him guinness)some newts & ducks. We also have 17 horses roaming free around our estate, they belong to the local travellers who dumped then there, they don't feed them, they don't water them, the police say "yes we know who owns them, there is nothing that we can do" the RSPCA say "we can't do anything unless one is suffering, them we can only treat the one that is suffering"! Up to yesterday we had 18 until a lady travelling home on the A417 hit one! she lived, thank goodness, the poor horse did not! Still nothing is done.
Sorry, quite lot of thread drift there, but I am pissed off about this!
Skipy
I'm get my saddle.

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: MBSLynne
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 04:28 PM

No, fortunately we don't have the rabies problem. In fact from what I've been reading, disease from them is not an issue. They can however have something called sarcotic mange which can kill them slowly and painfully...I hope this one hasn't got it!. It's coat looked quite thick and ok, though there is a bare spot on it's back.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: MBSLynne
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 04:24 PM

Sorch...feel free! I'm going to try and get a photo of it tomorrow. I'll try and send it to you, though I know that's hardly the same thing!

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 04:23 PM

I'd continue to feed and water him. The volunteer group will give you better information than anyone here, unless they've had pet foxes or are a veterinarian or vet tech. People in the US tend to be more wary of foxes since they carry rabies here. You don't have that problem.

If he was overweight when he first showed up and wasn't hunting, he likely was being cared for by people.

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: MBSLynne
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 04:13 PM

Lol! Thanks a lot skipy!

Thanks too Giok...yes I do know all that. The reason we touched him was to see if we could and to ascertain HOW tame he was. My feeling is that this creature has been brought up in a home wiht humans and has now, for some reason been abandoned. He is no longer a totally wild creature and is probably upset and confused. We aren't going to make a pet of him, but if he is unable to hunt properly due to having been provided for all his life then we have to do something about him. Also, he is either very old or not quite well so we need to try and do something about that too. This is not some lovely, wild fox Susan, this is a creature that needs help. Believe me, we were very cautious in the touching. I'm not about to get bitten! Neither did we actually pet him. And I don't think the smell is going to make my cats and hens go 10 miles to kill him!

Thanks for your comments guys. I will see what Derbyshire foxes say and let you know. Apparently there is a National Fox Welfare Society who will deliver medication to give them if necessary and I found some info on suggestions for feeding them so they would get the correct nutrition. I was hoping I might find an animal sanctuary somewhere where he would have company and be looked after properly.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: Sorcha
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 04:06 PM

Awwww, I love the foxen! And I've never gotten a good look at one in the wild. Can I come over Lynne?

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: skipy
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 03:38 PM

WYSIWGY, "because of potential disease and bites, not to mention possible vermin transfer"
thats not a very nice thing to say about MBSL!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: North/South Annie
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 03:33 PM

We seem to have a lot of Urban fox's round here. Last week a beautiful red fox sat at the end of my garden for ages and in the past I've pulled up in the car to find one unperturbed sitting next to the driveway. We just usually admire them from afar and curse a bit later when clearing up the fox poo from the lawn!

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 03:19 PM

Foxes are so extraordinarily beautiful. I don't think I could pass up one who wanted to be pet (but I promise to try.) I used to have one come by most evenings and climb the fig tree next to me as I sat on the porch, but touching, I am sure, was not to be tolerated. Climbing ability apparently made him a Gray Fox, but we usually see Red Foxes in this urbanized environment.

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 03:16 PM

Susan, he's already used to humans, otherwise Lynne would never get near it, probably wouldn't even see it.
Lynne's a farming lady, she knows the rules anyway.
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: gnu
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 03:05 PM

Awww... feed and water him. See what Derbyshire foxes say. I don't know anything about taming them or keeping them, but, hopefully someone can guide you.

Subject: RE: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 03:00 PM

...if you are gentle he will allow you to touch him...

No, no, NO!

First, unless one is going to keep him as a pet, and is provided to properly provide for him, it's probably not helpful to further socialize him to humans.

Second, it's also not safe, no matter how tame he seems, because of potential disease and bites, not to mention possible vermin transfer.

Third, if you take his smell home on you, you may inflame your pets to go find him and eat him (injure, scare him into traffic, etc.).

Fourth, communing is one thing, but touching is another.

Last, if touching is used to trap him for transport, I bet no one will ever be allowed to touch him, again.

~Susan

Subject: BS: Advice needed on fox
From: MBSLynne
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 02:43 PM

Knowing what a knowledgeable and helpful crowd Mudcatters are, I thought I'd ask your help on this one. On the farm where I work, a tame fox has just recently turned up. He is probably quite old, overweight and walks as though he may not be very well. I don't think he can hunt well as he completely ignores the hens and geese. The farmer has been feeding him. He is quite wary and flinches if you make sudden movements, but if you are gentle he will allow you to touch him. This afternoon he followed me around as I went about my jobs. We think he may be lonely for his humans, though it seems they may have abandoned him. Any suggestions as to what we should do with him? I've just e-mailed a volunteer group called Derbyshire Foxes.

I must say that sitting communing with this lovely creature has made my day.

Love Lynne