BS: Bushwhacked SIX

Subject: Bushwhacked SIX
From: GUEST,MAV
Date: 16 Feb 01 - 09:13 PM

Dear little friends,

Ahhhh, a nice new fresh thread.

It's so nice that you have stayed around to play for these hundreds of posts.

I have noticed all the sane LSCs are peeling away from criminal clinton, even some of the drug addicted Hollywood leftists are putting some daylight between themselves and the dirtbag.

It does not matter however, because you, algor, Maxine Waters, Jenningsbrokawrather et al, who defended the indefensible bastard, are all unindicted conspirators.

Any of the smart LSCs in DC who know what's what, will be jumping on the "W" Train (like they are starting to do) or they'll be TOAST in two years.

AND THEY KNOW IT!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: GUEST,CraigS
Date: 16 Feb 01 - 09:22 PM

I don't know what this stuff means - I'm British - but I detect that you don't like Mr Clinton. All I can say is that Iraq's just been bombed again, and I don't like the way that Mr Bush signs death warrants as if they were petty cash vouchers. It doesn't matter who is in charge, politicians are lying cads until proven otherwise. There hasn't been a Prime Minister of England I've liked in my lifetime, and there hasn't been a US president I've liked. Perhaps someone could write a song about this?

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: mousethief
Date: 16 Feb 01 - 09:30 PM

So what I want to know is, what bushy dog is being wagged by this iraq-bombing tail?

Nixon was a staunch supporter of Joe McCarthy. He made secret deals with the North Vietnamese to ensure that a peace accord wasn't signed before the 1968 election. He lied about criminal activities, and then lied about lying about criminal activities. He was a power-crazed monomaniac who felt that anybody who didn't like him or his politics was an enemy of the American people.

Clinton got a blow job (or three) in the oval office, and then lied about it.

Hmmmmm.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: GUEST,MAV
Date: 16 Feb 01 - 09:41 PM

Dear Spew,

"Yeah, you're out all right MAV............far, far, out.....bla, bla, bla,...92 city blocks....bla, bla, bla.."

What's a city block?

"Try to stop at a restroom, ...bla, bla, bla, and dump that load of "BLEEP" you're carrying. Be sure to alert the owner that your "BLEEP" is especially putrid and there's a ton of it so he can get the Roto-Rooter folks on the way. Bla, bla, bla...have them snake out your "BLEEP" to be sure all that "BLEEP" is out"

WOW! What a vulgar "BLEEPER". I'd never sign my name to such a piece of "BLEEP".

"Why are you all jacking with this guy?"

Because I'm so much fun and you know that most of these people actually agree with me and are just putting YOU on!

By the way, are you an F.O.B?

Signed,

the kinder, gentler...mav

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Feb 01 - 09:48 PM

Gee.........How nice............Now group, Mav is going to be kinder and gentler.................a real prince among men..................He's a good guy, wouldn't say fuck if he could get one.

Enjoy yourselves gang.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: GUEST,MAV
Date: 16 Feb 01 - 09:53 PM

Hey Thiefer,

"Uncle Joe" was a godfather to the Kennedy kids.

I thought you otta know that.

see ya big boy,

mav out

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: Troll
Date: 16 Feb 01 - 10:01 PM

Alex, what in the world does Nixon have to do with Bush? Or Iran?

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: wdyat12
Date: 16 Feb 01 - 10:08 PM

All these Bushwacked threads bring up all the bad and the ugly history of politics, but it don't change a thing if it don't have that sting. None of us are very happy with the global corporations pulling the strings of bad little puppets. We all know we are being manipulated too. All that counts is the bottom line and cash in the pocket of the few powerful really evil people in the world. What are we just sitting here complaining for? Get the lead out folks and get active. Nader was right.

wdyat12

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: kendall
Date: 16 Feb 01 - 10:16 PM

What can we do? You should see the letters I wrote to my two republican Senators. They both supported John (anti-everything)Ashcroft and Gail (cut them all down) Norton. I told them that, since they chose to send Bugs Bunny to guard the carrots and put that bigot in power, that I will do everything in my power (legally) to get them defeated next time they run. I can hardly wait.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: Troll
Date: 16 Feb 01 - 10:20 PM

Little Hawk. Castro did all the things you said he did but he went one farther that really screwed him with 1960's America. He announced that he was a Marxist-Leninist.
After that no American Administration would touch him. To have done so would have been to commit political suicide.
People of today do not understand the fear that the post-WWII government had for "world communism". It was perceived as a very real threat, as was nuclear war.If you were not alive during those times you cannot understand how nearly everyone felt. Kruschev stood up in the UN and announced that the USSR would bury us. It was a scary time.
So don't be too quick to judge what happened in the late 50's and early 60's vis a vis Castro. There was a lot more playing into it than just United Fruit losing it's monopoly and the Mafia losing their money-laundry.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: GUEST,MAV
Date: 16 Feb 01 - 10:20 PM

Hey Spewer,

"wouldn't say "BLEEP" if he could get one

You eat with that mouth?

You kiss your mother with that mouth?

Give peace a chance,

mav out

PS...r.v.wade????(tee hee)

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Feb 01 - 10:32 PM

Well, the obvious response here is:

Nah Mav, my Mom's dead. I been kissin' yours though............

But I wouldn't want to offend one so pure of thought as the Mav, so I won't say it.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: GUEST,MAV
Date: 16 Feb 01 - 10:43 PM

Catbox,

"But I wouldn't want to offend one so pure of thought as the Mav"

I never said I was pure of thought, I just try to refrain from calling an @$$ an @$$.

"so I won't say it"

I think you just did.

Sorry about your mom.

mav

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Feb 01 - 10:46 PM

(:<))......well, that was fun.....thanks mav.....Y'all go on now..........Have a good time.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: wdyat12
Date: 16 Feb 01 - 11:22 PM

kendall,

Join the Greens! Get others to join too! Get informed! Get armed! There's a fight brewing in the grassroots! Check out Ralph Nader on the net.

wdyat12

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: GUEST,MAV
Date: 17 Feb 01 - 07:38 AM

Dear Craig S,

"There hasn't been a Prime Minister of England I've liked in my lifetime"

What, you were born since Maggie T? She sure towers far and above your current whining nannie-boy Toni Blair.

"and there hasn't been a US president I've liked"

Including Washington? Oh, yeah you're British.

"Perhaps someone could write a song about this?"

Oh.....

The taste is sweeter, and the box is new, Labour is corrupted, Through and through.

mav out

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: Skeptic
Date: 17 Feb 01 - 09:53 AM

As the nice Church Lady used to say, "Well, isn't that SPECIAL!?

Dear Kinder, gentler Mav,

Can I gather from your remarks that its just people who like Clinton that are the problem, not LSCs in general?

Nixon had the sense of honor to resign? After he was informed by the Senate Leadership that if he went on trial, he'd be convicted. Claiming that as honorable strains the meaning to the limit.

However, the thread is about W and his policies so consider:

Ashcroft as Attorney General of Missouri singled out NOW to sue (for restraint of trade) over calling for a boycott during the ERA ratification fight. The case was thrown out of Federal District and Federal Appeals Court and the Supreme Court refused to hear it. Besides there being ample precedent against such suits being brought at all, as the Courts noted, there were some 13 other organizations who also called for a boycott. Mr. Ashcroft simply ignored those organizations.

25 religious organizations have sent W a letter, asking that he repeal the restrictions on providing social services to illegal immigrants as part of his regulatory restructuring to accommodate faith-based charities. Seems the groups are much more interested in charity than politics.

Plus all those rich people urging Bush not to reform the estate tax as (among other things) the reform would hurt charities. But if he does, then the Government can just take up the slack.

I suppose we can ignore the little breach of protocol in failing to invite certain democratic members of Congress when he was touring military bases in their States. Oops, he did invite some democrats.. In Virginia the excuse was that the Representative wasn't on the Armed Forces Committee (although other Congressmen who weren't also got invited). In Georgia, that excuse won't work as the Representative is on the Committee. It would be impolitic to mention that both were African Americans.

Then there's W's lost year of military service.

And the tax reform that gives the group who currently pays 21% of the taxes 41% of the tax breaks.

Still, there is hope. A scandal is brewing in Texas regarding the Texas Funeral Commission and the firing of Eliza May holds out the possibility of Bush having to testify in her wrongful termination suit. The claim is that W lied under oath. Damn, its Deja Vu all over again.

Michael Powell, the FCC Chair, promises to be interesting (until Bush reins him in). While he doesn't see the "digital divide" as an issue that the FCC needs to address, has no problem with unregulated mergers and acquisition, he also doesn't think that the FCC should get involved in regulating content. Which raises the interesting ratings question: Can full frontal nudity really compete with Monday Night Football?

Regards

John

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: wdyat12
Date: 17 Feb 01 - 02:09 PM

There is a good alterative online news service called Common Dreams with poignant articles. The headline this morning read:

For Bush and Blair, Iraqi Raids an Act of Male Bonding by Michael White.

You can get there with this address. [e-mail]

wdyat12

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: kendall
Date: 17 Feb 01 - 02:48 PM

I'm quite familiar with Nader. He is a humorless egomanic who would have no support in Congress, and, would get no where. He was wrong about the Corvair too. If all those naive Nader voters had voted against the Shrub, we wouldn't be facing the mess we have after we lost our right to choose a president. I had little respect for that bunch of lackeys before. I have none now. Their goddamn power trips areworth more than the constitution. A pox on all of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: wdyat12
Date: 17 Feb 01 - 03:17 PM

Kendall,

You're right about several things. Nader had no chance in hell of winning the presidency, He was wrong about the Corvair, and a third party president, no matter who, would have no support in Congress right now. You have to think ahead. If we want the status quo to continue, then we can blindly follow this corporate run duopoly disguised as a democracy. If we want an adgenda that favors the paticipation of people of all nations in the democratic process, then we have to throw all the bums out and that starts in our own backyards. We have to begin in the grassroots like right here on the Mudcat Forum discussing ways and sharing recourses for changing all this madness in the world. Yes, We should complain, but we should also act.

Sincerely, wdyat12

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Feb 01 - 03:41 PM

Troll - Good point about Castro. I actually was living in the USA at that time (1958 to 1969), and you're right, there was an extraordinary fear of communism and of world war, so Castro's statement would have made him a pariah in America.

I think Castro totally expected support from the American people after throwing out Batista. As such, he was naive. Had he not been so naive he would probably have made no such public statements about being "Marxist-Leninist".

Or maybe he was just arrogant or overconfident and got carried away. He unquestionably has a big ego and a lot of guts and has been known to shoot his mouth off without regard to the consequences.

Too bad. It sure has caused a lot of unnecessary trouble for a whole lot of people.

Once you actually get to know the Cubans, who would care if they were officially communist or socialist or whatever...it doesn't stop them from being a greatly likeable bunch of people...and Cuba from being a great place.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: GUEST,MAV
Date: 17 Feb 01 - 04:08 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: MarkS
Date: 17 Feb 01 - 04:11 PM

Hey guys, blaming Nader for taking away votes from X so Y could win is like balming the coin for landing heads instead of tails. It does not much matter with either X or Y, the Republicrats are all part of the same system no matter the name tag on the empty suit behind the desk in the Oval Office. Nader was the one chance we had of real change during the past electoral follies, but that thread is too old to start again.
Lets look ahead to the next four years. And if that makes me naive, then I would rather be naive and keep a bit of idealism rather than buy into either the left or the right branch of todays establishment.
MarkS

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: GUEST,MAV
Date: 17 Feb 01 - 04:15 PM

Yes, Castro's a great guy, except for the 10,000 Cubans he murdered, They probably don't talk real freely about that down there, do they? I wonder why?

Just like Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao and Hitler. All brutal, murdering, authoritarian despots.

Not an RWE among them.

mav out

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Feb 01 - 04:16 PM

Ummm...MAV? Were you trying to say something?

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Feb 01 - 04:27 PM

Hawkster, Mav is ALWAYS trying to say something..........Of course no one ever has the least idea what it is.......this would include Mav himself possibly.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: GUEST,MAV
Date: 17 Feb 01 - 04:27 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Feb 01 - 04:28 PM

Yeah.....See what I mean?

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Feb 01 - 04:35 PM

He seems to be at a loss for words. You must have really ticked him off this time, Spaw.

Oh, wait, there he is....must've got help from a Joe Clone.

Does RWE mean "right wing extremist"? If so, don't be naive, MAV, there are RWE's everywhere, and they thrive in Communist systems. In fact they usually end up running them. They are ruthless bastards with lots of firepower at their command. I advise you to stay clear of them for your own safety. I sure as hell do, whether I'm in Cuba or the USA.

It's peaceniks like me that are safe to be around. We're nonviolent and we believe in "live and let live". Seriously.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Feb 01 - 04:45 PM

See...I don't think the world is locked in a battle between socialism and capitalism.

I think it's locked in a battle between love and fear...mercy and mercilessness...cooperation and "survival of the fittest"...unity and exclusivity...diversity of choice and MY WAY IS THE ONLY WAY.

RWE's and LWE's amount to basically the same thing in my book. That's why they hate each other so much...they recognize themselves in the mirror. And they KNOW that guy is dangerous.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: GUEST,MAV
Date: 17 Feb 01 - 05:04 PM

Little Hawk,

"MAV? Were you trying to say something?"

Yes,

My point was the liberals like the murdering communists better than American conservatives.

Why?

(You didn't get that?)

Cats,

You weren't counting on the Clinton News Network etc. for information were you?

You were aware that the Soviet Communists, Nazis, Chicoms and Cambodians as well as Castro were mass murderers weren't you?

Next you'll be telling me the Holocaust didn't happen.

YOU PEOPLE act like you never heard some of the stuff I've posted. Denial or disbelief?

I've certainly heard the LSC line over and over and over and over, including the major broadcast media news outlets.

Why should I or any American believe anything from the ministry of propaganda?

Ratings for all the major broadcast news shows are steadily declining as are those for MSNBC (2nd place Matthews), CNBC (paid programming) and CNN (massive layoffs).

The public just ain't buying it! Why are you?

FOXNEWS is steadily gaining ground with the American public since they give BOTH SIDES of a story and report THE FACTS on a news story.

You can accuse them of being biased to the right if you want, but you would be wrong! Many of their programs have hardcores from both ends of the spectrum arguing it out right in front of you.

Then you can go online and do some research yourself.

Since they provide opinions from the right and other sources don't, I can only assume unfair leftist bias from most major sources.

As is also apparent (by your reactions) many sources, both broadcast and print, are guilty of bias by omission or placement (burying a story).

They either fail to report a major story or give it 2 column inches on page Z39 and then when a reference to it seems to be "news" they can say "Oh, we reported that, that's old news"

One more thing,

You didn't really think those "newsreaders" like jenningsratherbrokaw had to go to "Journalism school" to learn how to read a teleprompter or spell did you?

They are the professional purveyors of disinformation!

mav out

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Feb 01 - 05:04 PM

Another thing that occurs to me. I don't go to Cuba to visit Fidel Castro, just like I don't go to the USA to visit Bill Clinton or George Bush.

I go there to be among ordinary Cubans, and I like them. There are plenty of good people in all countries, and one ought to give that consideration before becoming involved in useless wars between competing systems run by a few elitists with an inflated idea of their own importance.

Still...better Castro than Batista.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: kendall
Date: 17 Feb 01 - 05:06 PM

Believe it or not, I understand where you are coming from. The problem is, we must find someone who CAN get elected. As long as a 3rd party candidate is a Nader, it aint gonna work. So. How do we get an electable Green candidate? Teddy Roosevelt couldn't make it work, and Ralph Nader is no Teddy Roosevelt.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Feb 01 - 05:12 PM

MAV - yuo posted "Why should I or any American believe anything from the ministry of propaganda?"

Exactly. Why do you believe your ministry of propaganda? (your educational and media system)

I was subjected to a flood of it all through public school from Grade 4 to Grade 12 in New York State. I certainly did not believe most of it. Of course, I was a Canadian in a foreign land, so I didn't just take it for granted as gospel, which is what virtually all my classmates did. We were being primed to fight a 3rd world war every day of our lives.

The USA is one of the most jingoistic countries in the world, always looking for an "enemy". It's a worrisome thing to anyone who is not an American, I can assure you. But Americans think it's normal. It is not.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: kendall
Date: 17 Feb 01 - 07:21 PM

Look, those people who make bullets have to have a market. Thats capitalism. Besides, we dont look for enemies, we create them.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: Skeptic
Date: 17 Feb 01 - 08:33 PM

Mav,

Before blasting the liberal media (and it does exist, just as its counterpart), consider that the media has a single purpose, to make money. As such, all are suspect.

If liberal commentators make money, those who control the major corporations (who are, by and large, conservative and Republican) support them. If not, they leave. If Fox makes money with more balanced reporting, then the rest will follow. Is it a conspiracy or a natural and logical necessity of a profit based system?

And consider Michael Powell's ideas about the FCC not interfering in acquisitions and mergers. Under that policy we could end up with one or two major outlets for news and somehow that's good.

It takes dedication to figure out what's the real story behind most major news stories. Usually three or four sources. And then it's always useful to look at what the rest of the world is saying about what's going on.

As LH commented, we're into jingoism. As a nation we seem addicted to sound bites and simplistic explanations (that are inevitably wrong). Trying to get past the fervent belief that there just has to be a simple answer for everything isn't peculiar to America. We just seem to cling to the idea more tenaciously than most.

You also said: You were aware that the Soviet Communists, Nazis, Chicoms and Cambodians as well as Castro were mass murderers weren't you?

Most of the people I've run into on Mudcat are fairly well read and have a pretty good sense of history. Speaking for myself, yes, I'm very aware of what the groups you list did. As I'm aware of what the US Government did to the Native Americans, what the Allies did to Hamburg and Dresden, what the missionary's did to Hawaii. What the Khmer Rouge did to their own people (with full support of the Actor, btw). What big business did to labor in Europe and the US (worse in the US as I recall). What Catholics did to Protestants..... the list is endless. The question is what to do about it. Besides call each other names.

You seem to be looking for the 'good guys'. There aren't a lot of them and most don't get into politics. Just as the US has to have an enemy (even if we have to make them up) we also demand a hero. If the Left are the bad guys, why then the Right just has to be the good guys. Nice. Neat.. Simplistic. Wrong

For a country that prides itself on supporting the individual, we go to extraordinary links to demand conformity, hiding behind practicality, necessity and security. And are sure that the answer is the sole position of the Republicans or Democrats (who aren't all that different, in the final analysis). What we call the Left and Right, most other countries would view as the same ideology with a few minor variations.

Nader can be viewed as a "spoiler". But what he tried to do (and both Bush and Gore made sure it didn't happen) was expand politics to embrace alternate ideas about how things ought to work. So did the Libertarians and they got excluded too.

Little Hawk,

As a survivor of the US public school system and a citizen, it took me a little longer to dig my way out of what can only be called propaganda. I was lucky, in HS I had a couple of teachers who were definitely "outside the box" and started the process of opening my eyes. Sadly, the propaganda effort continues, aided and abetted by well meaning citizens who were victims of the same limited education and have diligently worked at enshrining what they think know as a sort of ultimate truth.

Regards

John

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: GUEST,MAV
Date: 17 Feb 01 - 08:36 PM

Little Hawk,

"Why do you believe your ministry of propaganda? (your educational and media system)"

I DON'T!!!!!!

That is exactly what I was talking about.

As to Cuba, I'm sure we have no gripe with the Cuban citizens, after all, Americans of Cuban extraction make up some of the most patriotic voting districts in Miami (GOP of course).

Castro is still a mass murderer.

mav out

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: DougR
Date: 18 Feb 01 - 12:30 AM

Kendall for President! DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: kendall
Date: 18 Feb 01 - 08:11 AM

Take your meds Doug! So, Skeptic, I wondered if anyone else would start calling Mr. Raygun "The Actor". How that man managed to fool so many people is a mystery to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: GUEST,MAV
Date: 18 Feb 01 - 09:26 AM

Kendall,

Yeah, that stupid Gorbechev, fell for it hook, line and sinker.

Why we could still have the cold war going if only Reagan hadn't screwed it all up.

And that democRAT Congress, the way he fooled them into making those massive spending cuts so we wouldn't have a huge national debt....oh, wait?

mav out

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: GUEST,MAV
Date: 18 Feb 01 - 11:15 AM

Dear Skeptic,

"Can I gather from your remarks that its just people who like Clinton that are the problem, not LSCs in general?"

The American defenders of clinton (FOBs and most democRATs) are self identified enemies of the US Constitution.

American LSCs in general are problematic but have a right to their beliefs under the first amendment.

They have every right to try to win the battle of public opinion but typically use "ends justify the means" spin tactics instead of revealing their agenda. (aka dirty pool)

"Nixon had the sense of honor to resign? After he was informed by the Senate Leadership that if he went on trial, he'd be convicted. Claiming that as honorable strains the meaning to the limit"

That included votes to convict from his own party.

If the LSCs in Congress had any honor, they would have gone and looked at the evidence and found clinton (the rapist and thief) should have been removed.

Instead, they closed their eyes, plugged their ears and went "na-na-na" seeing and hearing no evil.

Clinton (unlike Nixon) DID put America through the process and degraded American society as a result.

Take a look at former good buddy Time Magazine's treatment of the "Incredible Shrinking Ex-President" coming to a news stand near you soon.

"The mainpress media turn on Clinton moves into fifth gear: In its cover story, "THE INCREDIBLE SHRINKING EX-PRESIDENT", TIME concludes "Clinton's ex-presidency is shaping up to be a shriveled version of his presidency....

TIME's cover page art shows a tiny figure of Clinton dressed in sweats and sneakers under a huge headline as "THE INCREDIBLE SHRINKING PRESIDENT."

Clinton the STUD, shriveled! HA ha ha ha ha and bent whoooo! tee hee ha ha ha ha.

Here's more

www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,99676,00.html

www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,99807,00.html

"Ashcroft as Attorney General of Missouri singled out NOW to sue (for restraint of trade) over calling for a boycott during the ERA ratification fight"

Good!

NOW is simply a bunch of unreasonable socialist murder/bort elitists.

They don't give a damn about the average American woman.

The NOW butches want equal rights, but in practice when the going gets rough they revert to the "poor little ole me" victimhood posture instead of "taking it like a man.

(See: Lazio "invading" Hildebeast's space)

AG Ashcroft warts and all is 100 times more qualified than the 5th-choice-quaking-Waco murdering-frivolous phony FL child molesting innocent career destroying lawsuit-Elian communist complicit kidnapping-rubber stamping-obstruction of justice department-yes MAN!...Janet Reno!

I hope he puts the crooked old bag away for life.

"25 religious organizations have sent W a letter, asking that he repeal the restrictions on providing social services to illegal immigrants as part of his regulatory restructuring to accommodate faith-based charities. Seems the groups are much more interested in charity than politics"

I would support giving I.I.s a meal and a one way ticket home.

Next time, ouchies from the border patrol/Army.

"Plus all those rich people urging Bush not to reform the estate tax as (among other things) the reform would hurt charities"

If they want to give half their estate to charity or the govt, let them.

Leave the non-billionaires alone.

The reason so many people have to sell farms and family business is the very same estate (death)tax. That's anti-American

But you knew that! ...........Didn't you!

"But if he does, then the Government can just take up the slack"

I doubt that. KILL PROGRAMS! KILL DEPARTMENTS!

"I suppose we can ignore the little breach of protocol in failing to invite certain democratic members of Congress when he was touring military bases in their States. Oops, he did invite some democrats.. In Virginia the excuse was that the Representative wasn't on the Armed Forces Committee (although other Congressmen who weren't also got invited). In Georgia, that excuse won't work as the Representative is on the Committee. It would be impolitic to mention that both were African Americans"

I wouldn't invite the racist bastards either. He's being way nicer to the commucRATs and black socialists (progressives)than he needs to be.

That NAACP dragging ad was the most disgusting and unfair piece of crap ever perpetrated in American politics.

Two of the murderers are now on death row in Texas.

What would "Hate Crimes Legislation" do, kill them TWICE???

"Then there's W's lost year of military service"

Then there's clinton taking communion with the USSR and Chinese COMMUNISTS!

"And the tax reform that gives the group who currently pays 21% of the taxes 41% of the tax breaks"

GOOD!................................Except that's:

33% paid by the top 1%.

50% paid by the top 5%

5% paid by the bottom 50%

If you don't pay income taxes, why should you get a break?

Oh yeah, socialism (return to top of letter and re-read)

mav out

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: Skeptic
Date: 18 Feb 01 - 11:29 AM

Mav,

Don't feel sorry about the Cold War. W's doing his best to start it up again. Even the rhetoric hasn't changed much since the Actor's heyday. But then, thanks to Bush, neither have the players.

The need for enemies and heroes and simple explanations dominates our society. It makes life so much easier to pick a good guy, a bad guy and praise or blame them. Facts, history, economic theory, all that just take too much time to learn. And you have to actually think about it. So much easier to rationalize away the nasty facts that don't fit. (No matter where you fit on the political spectrum)

The Soviet Union had been crumbling for a long time. The Actor gets credit for hastening the fall.

He also needs to accept the blame for his support of petty dictators who were as guilty of genocide as any of your "favorites".

Looking at various economic indicators, the 80's was a worse decade than the 70's or the 90's. Who gets credit and who gets blame? In Reagan's first real budget, he got Congress to pass TEFRA and said, at the time, that he now had all the tools necessary to fix the economy. He didn't.

The Actor was the hero everyone wanted. Hero's have to screw up big time before the image starts to tarnish. It happens quicker these days because facts and opinions get disseminated faster.

Clinton in the 90's didn't cause the expansion. Neither did Greenspan. And neither will Bush during his term. But our economy is international. At best, governments can moderate the peaks and valleys.

Of the $5.6 trillion projected surplus over the next 10 years (and that figure assumed continued economic growth and significant pay down of the national debt) all but $1.9 trillion is earmarked for things like the social security trust fund. So the $1.6 trillion tax cut comes out of that. Which leaves a $300 billion hedge against those little blips that haunt our economic system. Not what I'd call prudent, aside from the equity issues that have been raised.

BTW, under the Bush plan, W and Laura will get a $20K tax break the first year and by 2006 it'll be up to $100k. Its also estimated that the tax break going to the richest 1% would pay for the medicare prescription program. It's a question of values: Helping senior citizens get the medicine they need to stay alive or picking up that Renoir for the library at the Hamptons. Decisions, decisions, decisions.

Regards

John

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: Troll
Date: 18 Feb 01 - 11:36 AM

Actually,Skeptic, I heard that the reason the rep from Ga. wasn't invited is that she has been virulently outspoken about the "Illegitimacy" of the Bush presidency.
If I were Bush, I wouldn't invite her along either. Nor, I think, would any other politician.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: GUEST,MAV
Date: 18 Feb 01 - 12:00 PM

Good Morning Skeptic,

Where are the other Mudcatters, beer and volume shock from niteclubs?

I know the feeling.

"Don't feel sorry about the Cold War. W's doing his best to start it up again. Even the rhetoric hasn't changed much since the Actor's heyday. But then, thanks to Bush, neither have the players"

Yes, too bad they've had 8 years to build nuclear weapons.

"The need for enemies and heroes and simple explanations dominates our society. It makes life so much easier to pick a good guy, a bad guy and praise or blame them. Facts, history, economic theory, all that just take too much time to learn. And you have to actually think about it. So much easier to rationalize away the nasty facts that don't fit. (No matter where you fit on the political spectrum)"

Yes, if Japan and Germany had been percieved as a threat, maybe WWII wouldn't have happened.

"The Soviet Union had been crumbling for a long time. The Actor gets credit for hastening the fall"

World leaders were impressed by his resolve and ability when dealing with the Russians.

"Mr. Gorbechev tear down this wall" as a public position put the USSR in an odd PR position and the US in a superior posture.

"Star Wars" was another scare tactic that worked, they thought we already had the technology.

We also outspent them in the arms race, forcing their wimpy economic structure to collapse.

"He also needs to accept the blame for his support of petty dictators who were as guilty of genocide as any of your "favorites"."

You mean like Kadaffi and Ortega?

"Looking at various economic indicators, the 80's was a worse decade than the 70's or the 90's. Who gets credit and who gets blame?"

Carter gets the blame for the 80's

Reagan gets the credit for the 90s. "In Reagan's first real budget, he got Congress to pass TEFRA and said, at the time, that he now had all the tools necessary to fix the economy. He didn't"

No, they betrayed him and denied him their promised tax cuts.

Treasury revenue doubled after tax cuts, they blew it.

The President proposes, the Congress disposes.

They laughed and claimed his budgets were "dead on arrival"

"The Actor was the hero everyone wanted. Hero's have to screw up big time before the image starts to tarnish. It happens quicker these days because facts and opinions get disseminated faster"

In no small way due to the way the LSCs shamelessly and unfairly demonize him even as he languishes in a torturous death from Alzheimers.

A real good testimony to the hypocrisy of the "compassionate and tolerant" self-described nature of the commucRATs.

Just leave the man alone, he @$$ he save could be yours.

"Clinton in the 90's didn't cause the expansion. Neither did Greenspan. And neither will Bush during his term. But our economy is international. At best, governments can moderate the peaks and valleys"

WRONG!

Of the $5.6 trillion projected surplus over the next 10 years (and that figure assumed continued economic growth and significant pay down of the national debt) all but $1.9 trillion is earmarked for things like the social security trust fund. So the $1.6 trillion tax cut comes out of that. Which leaves a $300 billion hedge against those little blips that haunt our economic system. Not what I'd call prudent, aside from the equity issues that have been raised.

BTW, under the Bush plan, W and Laura will get a $20K tax break the first year and by 2006 it'll be up to $100k. Its also estimated that the tax break going to the richest 1% would pay for the medicare prescription program. It's a question of values: Helping senior citizens get the medicine they need to stay alive or picking up that Renoir for the library at the Hamptons. Decisions, decisions, decisions.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: GUEST,MAV
Date: 18 Feb 01 - 12:14 PM

continued,

sorry bout that.

WRONG!

They can either screw it up by removing dollars from the economy, or enhance it by putting dollars back.

Kennedy did it in 1960...tax cuts

Reagan did it!...tax cuts

Bush #41 didn't do it..."read my lips"

clinton didn't do it....largest tax increase in history

Newt did it..massive capital gains tax cuts

"Of the $5.6 trillion projected surplus over the next 10 years (and that figure assumed continued economic growth and significant pay down of the national debt) all but $1.9 trillion is earmarked for things like the social security trust fund. So the $1.6 trillion tax cut comes out of that. Which leaves a $300 billion hedge against those little blips that haunt our economic system. Not what I'd call prudent, aside from the equity issues that have been raised"

The govt is not supposed to run a surplus, that means they confiscated more money than they can waste.

There should be neither a deficit nor a surplus (balanced books)

This tax cut is nothing, it should be $5.6 Trillion or more.

"BTW, under the Bush plan, W and Laura will get a $20K tax break the first year and by 2006 it'll be up to $100k"

Good! That means other high EARNERS will also not be penalized for being successful.

"Its also estimated that the tax break going to the richest 1% would pay for the medicare prescription program. It's a question of values: Helping senior citizens get the medicine they need to stay alive or picking up that Renoir for the library at the Hamptons. Decisions, decisions, decisions"

Where in the US Constitution does it give the right to re-distribution of the wealth to the federal government???

mav out

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: kendall
Date: 18 Feb 01 - 03:07 PM

Where was the Constitution when the Supreme Court selected our president? Wanna know who is really responsible for the economy of the last 8 years? Bill Gates. Who finally killed communism? Lec Walesa thats who. The Actor making meaningless speeches did shit! Furthermore, his tax cut in the early 80's made things worse.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: kendall
Date: 18 Feb 01 - 03:32 PM

What was that about a rape? Look MAV Clinton was bad enough on his own merits without you Right wing types making up charges. Furthermore, the WORST of what he did doesn't come close to the actor and his Iran-Contra, and arms for hostages. How come you never mention his promise to "Balance the budget", and the fact that he never submitted one in 8 years? Just the oposite, he drove us up to 5 trillion dollars in debt. He was a liar and a crook, yet, he gets an airport named after him. Clinton gets a blow job he is the anti-christ. Your priorities are as screwed up as most of the rest of this country.

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: Skeptic
Date: 18 Feb 01 - 09:11 PM

Troll,

Somehow I expected (or maybe faintly hoped) for something more than the ethics of a elementary school playground from W. Protocol is protocol. It's one of those little rules of the game. Not getting invited to the White House is one thing, this is another. And gives the appearance of racism, no matter what W's motives. Is this an example of how he plans to bring the country together?

Greetings Mav.,

The American defenders of clinton (FOBs and most democRATs) are self identified enemies of the US Constitution.

In your not so humble opinion, anyway. And you never did answer my question about the Constitution.

They have every right to try to win the battle of public opinion but typically use "ends justify the means" spin tactics instead of revealing their agenda. (aka dirty pool)

Strange. That's the same charges leveled at the RR and RWE.

And as I'm not a big clinton fan, I'll have to let other's defend his actions.

I said "Ashcroft as Attorney General of Missouri singled out NOW to sue (for restraint of trade) over calling for a boycott during the ERA ratification fight" and you replied

Good!

NOW is simply a bunch of unreasonable socialist murder/bort elitists.

They don't give a damn about the average American woman. The NOW butches want equal rights, but in practice when the going gets rough they revert to the "poor little ole me" victimhood posture instead of "taking it like a man.

Two points: The point of law was that the man who is now our attorney general ignored several supreme court rulings that said there was no basis for his suit, ignored the fact that it wasn't NOW that started the boycotts and used his position to single them out. If he'd named all the organizations, fine. (Though he still didn't ahve much of a legal basis) He didn't.

The second point is that your little tirade reminds me of Orwells Animal Farm where all the animals were equal, only some were more equal than others. Or more directly, your "They deserve it" is one of the more un-American statements I've come across lately. Whatever you or I may think about NOW, they deserve equal treatment under the law. And didn't get it. From the man charged with making sure the law is applied with at least the appearance of fairness.

AG Ashcroft warts and all is 100 times more qualified than the 5th-choice-quaking-Waco murdering-frivolous phony FL child molesting innocent career destroying lawsuit-Elian communist complicit kidnapping-rubber stamping-obstruction of justice department-yes MAN!...Janet Reno!

Feel better now? Even if all your childish ranting about Janet Reno were true, it's starting to look like an argument about who was the "better" Caesar, Nero or Caligula.

I would support giving I.I.s a meal and a one way ticket home. Next time, ouchies from the border patrol/Army.

Hardly the point. What it indicates is what a lot of people have been saying. That W's ideas about Faith based initiatives and the faith based organizations aren't necessarily in the same ball park. And the faith based groups aren't policemen. The danger is secularization of religions.

If they want to give half their estate to charity or the govt, let them. Leave the non-billionaires alone. The reason so many people have to sell farms and family business is the very same estate (death)tax. That's anti-American. But you knew that! ...........Didn't you!

No. I know people that have had to sell farms and businesses. More out of their own ignorance than necessity. Life Trusts aren't just for the rich.

Isaid "But if he does, then the Government can just take up the slack" and your came back with I doubt that. KILL PROGRAMS! KILL DEPARTMENTS!

What do you think W's doing with his faith based nonsense? I wouldn't invite the racist bastards either. He's being way nicer to the commucRATs and black socialists (progressives)than he needs to be.

No, I suspect you wouldn't. And do you long for the good old days when "they" knew their palce and when "they" got a little uppity, why they just got lynched?

He's supposed to be the President of all the United States, not just the parts he likes. At least that was the theme of his inaugural speech. That NAACP dragging ad was the most disgusting and unfair piece of crap ever perpetrated in American politics.

It was certainly in my top five.

What would "Hate Crimes Legislation" do, kill them TWICE???

The argument for hate crimes legislation is that intent is one element taken into account when considering what charge to bring. The question is not "kill them twice" but all other things being equal, does the intent (hate) warrant a more severe charge. 1st Degree, rather than 2nd degree manslaughter, for example. Like premeditation.

I said "Then there's W's lost year of military service" and you came back with Then there's clinton taking communion with the USSR and Chinese COMMUNISTS!

And two wrongs make a right. One doesn't forgive or justify the other.

33% paid by the top 1%.

50% paid by the top 5%

5% paid by the bottom 50%

If you don't pay income taxes, why should you get a break?

Then why is the top 1%, whether its 21% or 33% getting 43% of the break? 33% (or 21%) would seem logical.

Oh yeah, socialism (return to top of letter and re-read)

I reread. It doesn't improve any of it.

Where are the other Mudcatters, beer and volume shock from niteclubs?

I know the feeling.

Beer and niteclubs indeed. Saturday Nights is when we plot to destroy organized religion. I'll send you a schedule (except you may think I'm being serious). Sadly, my beer and niteclub days are a thing of the past. "Don't feel sorry about the Cold War. W's doing his best to start it up again. Even the rhetoric hasn't changed much since the Actor's heyday. But then, thanks to Bush, neither have the players"

Yes, too bad they've had 8 years to build nuclear weapons.

Longer. But now they can buy them from the various nations of the old Soviet Union. That The Actor is credited with destroying. Hmmmm.?

Yes, if Japan and Germany had been percieved as a threat, maybe WWII wouldn't have happened.

Which is true but wasn't the point. And a number of people did see the menace. No one wanted to listen. And a lot listen to the wrong "hero". (Lindberg, for one)

"The Soviet Union had been crumbling for a long time. The Actor gets credit for hastening the fall" World leaders were impressed by his resolve and ability when dealing with the Russians.

"Mr. Gorbechev tear down this wall" as a public position put the USSR in an odd PR position and the US in a superior posture.

"Star Wars" was another scare tactic that worked, they thought we already had the technology.

We also outspent them in the arms race, forcing their wimpy economic structure to collapse

Such spending had been going on since the 50's. It reenforces my point about our compulsive need for heros as a substitute for thinking. And I don't belittel his effort, just want to keep it in perspective.

I said "He also needs to accept the blame for his support of petty dictators who were as guilty of genocide as any of your "favorites"." and your replied You mean like Kadaffi and Ortega?

I was thinking more of his support for, Somoza, Efran Montt, the Honduran "freedom fighters" The Khmer Rouge, Indonesia against East Timor, Mobutu Seko, the former South African government's support for terrorist in Angola and Mozambique.... to name a few.

In no small way due to the way the LSCs shamelessly and unfairly demonize him even as he languishes in a torturous death from Alzheimers.

A real good testimony to the hypocrisy of the "compassionate and tolerant" self-described nature of the commucRATs.

Which means .... what? He didn't (We all hope) have it while he was president. Should we overlook Hitler because he was syphilitic and probably schizophrenic (if not a total sociopath). Of forgive Caligula for his little foibles? Please!!. . I said "Clinton in the 90's didn't cause the expansion. Neither did Greenspan. And neither will Bush during his term. But our economy is international. At best, governments can moderate the peaks and valleys" and you replied with a resounding

WRONG!

And thus it is commanded. So let it be written, so let it be done.

They can either screw it up by removing dollars from the economy, or enhance it by putting dollars back. Kennedy did it in 1960...tax cuts

Reagan did it!...tax cuts

Bush #41 didn't do it..."read my lips"

clinton didn't do it....largest tax increase in history Newt did it..massive capital gains tax cuts

Take a look at some of the stuff on chaos theory and macroeconomics. Or even some of the popular stuff on fractal investing. And consider post hoc ergo propter hoc as a more likely explanation of your reasoning.

The govt is not supposed to run a surplus, that means they confiscated more money than they can waste. There should be neither a deficit nor a surplus (balanced books)

This tax cut is nothing, it should be $5.6 Trillion or more.

No. It shouldn't We have a massive deficit that is costing every taxpayer money. We should get rid of it. Except that we borrowed from the Social Security Trust Fund, from medicare and need to repay it. WE (as in the taxpayers) spent it. Just like a car loan, its time to pay it back. What we should have is no tax cut and use it to pay off the debt. That would be fiscally conservative.

Where in the US Constitution does it give the right to re-distribution of the wealth to the federal government???

Where is it forbidden?

Regards

John

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: Troll
Date: 18 Feb 01 - 10:54 PM

Skeptic, the Tenth Ammendment forbids it.
Bush will not be able to bring the country together. The agenda of the NAACP will see to that. Julian Bond is already saying that it won't happen. The Black "leaders" won't have their accustomed power in a Republican administration so they will use the years until the next Democratic President to extole the victimhood of their followers thereby guranteeing a continuation of their paychecks.
I find them to be the worst racists of all because they tell their followers that they are inferior; that they can't make it without the help of the white man. And, of course, said "leaders" -the Jacksons and Sharptons and Bonds- are the only ones who can force the government to give the poor victims their due.
For all who think my comments are racist, I invite you to look at other minorities who have come to this country and done well by working hard. I call your attention to the Koreans, Viet Namese, Cubans, and Chinese, to name a few.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Bushwhacked SIX
From: Skeptic
Date: 18 Feb 01 - 11:48 PM

Troll,

Sorry, I was getting tired of dealing with Mav. The 10th reserves rights not enumerated to the people. Who can direct the government (either at a state or federal level) to redistribute wealth if they want. And the sixteenth amendment provides a mechanism. Which is what I should have said but didn't.

The very real issue is that African Americans accept the role of victim. Once you're in that mode, almost anything can be used as proof.

On the other hand, the restrictions placed on the Chinese and Latinos (as some of the oldest non-European groups) weren't nearly as pervasive as those imposed on the African Americans. While there clearly were some restrictions (I seem to recall that voting by Chinese on the west coast was a problem at one time), they didn't last nearly as long and weren't pursued with the same vigor. That and the fact that none of the groups you mentioned had their culture destroyed with the ruthless efficiency used against the African Americans. Then they were systematically denied even token integration into the mainstream culture. My point being that their history provides fertile soil for their erstwhile "leaders" to paint them as victims. And for some to believe it.

I still maintain that W's actions were wrong. They struck me as petty. They didn't rise to the level of vindictiveness, just senseless pettiness. Which brings me back to an earlier characterization of W. Spoiled rich kid, part of the same elite as Bush Sr., but lacking his fathers sense of dignity and noblesse oblige.

His motives don't matter. This is politics. What matters is how it's perceived. And radical, progressive, socialist (to use Mav's terms) or not, Presidents offend Congressmen at their own risk. What he can do to one today, he can do to another tomorrow.

And I don't think you're a racist. Just pig-headed and usually wrong. Or at least a couple of your personalities are.

With Warmest Regards

John