BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!

Subject: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 06 Nov 04 - 06:51 PM

We waded the Big Muddy through Vietnam and it took so long to wake up.
Now that Kerry is history, we can say what we really want. Support our troops and bring them home.

If Bush starts the draft, "hell no, we won't go!"

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: dianavan
Date: 06 Nov 04 - 07:12 PM

Frank -

The only good thing about Bush being re-elected is that the anti-war movement can begin now instead of waiting for Kerry to decide what to do. It would have been very difficult to protest against a Kerry administration who could easily shift the blame.

Out of Iran!

d

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 06 Nov 04 - 07:15 PM

Blair sent our lads from the Black Watch in and what's happened already??? 3 dead........mmmmmm. Sorrow and sympathy for their families. Best wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Nov 04 - 07:16 PM

Thats the spirit Frank...Kick this phony democracy into touch.

"An old dog for the hard road, a pup for the pavement"...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: Dead Horse
Date: 06 Nov 04 - 09:26 PM

If you dont want dead soldiers, dont have an army. Simple really.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST,Osama
Date: 06 Nov 04 - 09:36 PM

Yes. Please leave. I am running out of idiots and virgins.

Big O

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 12:40 AM

This rings pretty damn hollow, coming from an ardent supporter of one of the two pro-war candidates?

Nice to know that all the people who have died in Iraq since Kerry became the Democratic frontrunner, died at the altar of Democratic party political expediency.

Doesn't get much sicker than that, does it?

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 02:02 AM

Osama's in Iraq now? Must be doing some more black-ops for the CIA.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: dianavan
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 03:09 AM

OUT OF IRAQ INTO SUDAN !

I mean it.

Occupation of Iraq is wrong! Saving people in Sudan is right.

If Bush could actually pull out of Iraq in a timely fashion and re-deploy those troops for a good cause, he might end up looking like a true, American hero.

I think Christians love little, black babies cuz I seen it on t.v.

He could even claim that this time he listened to the people.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: Amergin
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 04:00 AM

fuck that. bring the soldiers home.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: Wolfgang
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 07:13 AM

If you dont want dead soldiers, dont have an army. Simple really. (Dead horse)

Sounds really good at the first reading. Now let's apply this to other situations:

If you dont want dead policemen, dont have a police. Simple really.

If you dont want dead firefighter, dont have a firestation. Simple really.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: Dead Horse
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 07:38 AM

Irony, Wolfgang. Irony!

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST,Osama
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 08:13 AM

You Americans need a government run by the minority.

Big O

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST,US
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 09:15 AM

Hail Yess.

All of you foreign jihadists pack your weapons and leave for I blow your asses away.

Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 01:46 PM

Careful what you say or film or write about muslims, I'm shaking in me boots. Same as Christians eh????

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: DougR
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 03:44 PM

Not before the Iraqis elect a government of it's own and doesn't have to fear ending up in an unmarked mass grave. Then the troops will come home, and leave Iraq a better place to live. Witness: Afghanstan.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 04:08 PM

Wolfgang,

I don't like the idea of dead soldiers for Mr. Bush's Iraq war. What are they fighting for?

"Hey Hey Bush and Delay, how many kids did you kill today!"

Doug,

Just look at Afghanistan. No Osama and the biggest source of opium and heroin in the world. The Taleban are not defeated but still raid. Mission Accomplished?

Dianavan,

US needs the UN to help solve this problem in the Sudan. The Janjaweed are horrible gangsters and a world police action would be appropriate. Only problem, under Bush it would be another excuse to promote his Crusade.

Honestly folks, do you feel safer with Bush at the helm? He is able to push the button now.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 04:19 PM

Honestly Frank, you have all the blood on your hands that Bush, et al have--you supported their war by supporting the Republican Lite pro-war candidate.

How many lives did blind support for the Kerry hawk take? Quite a few.

You are so pathetic in your attempts to make yourself look like Bush being re-elected wasn't your fault. You are sleazily trying to weasal out of any accountability for your actions supporting a pro-war candidate.

Do any of us feel safer with Bush at the helm? What the hell kind of ludicrous statement is that? The progressive left that wasn't blinded by hatred for Bush, that still had functioning intellects, NEVER supported EITHER pro-war candidate.

You just keep refusing to accept responsibility for Bush's re-election, and think you can come in mouthing the anti-war rhetoric you shouted down on November 1st. You are a damn hypocrite.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST,US
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 12:44 AM

We are coming to blow those camel herdin' diaper heads away to join Allah. Peace be upon him.

Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST,US
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 12:46 AM

You soldiers over in Iraq hear that?

Not everybody here is a pussy.

Uncle sam

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 01:44 AM

Get out of Vietnam Now!

Oops. Thirty years later and we've done it again.

GUEST,US-May I personally invite you to go over to Vietn..I mean Iraq, and pick up a gun you are so willing for others to use...and join in the fray?

Please do. And if you chance to come back in a body bag, I for one, will mourn, as I have been mourning each and every day of this Vietnam..oops, I mean Iraqui-war.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST,Robin Hoode
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 05:34 AM

WAR, HUH, GOOD GOD, Y'ALL
WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR
ABSOULUTELY FUCK ALL!

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 08:44 AM

Yes, bring 'um home NOW...

Iraq in some way is worse than Vietnam in that the folks who have decided that its a good idea apparently learned nothing from Vietnam.

Every day that the US continues to occupy Iraq is another good day for the terrorists. With every Iraqi death two more terrorists are created. The occupation is not only bad policy but bad for the US's reputation.

As I have said many times, when the US pulls out there will be civil war. It doesn't matter if it's today, two years or 10 years from now. It is inevitable... The best the US can hope for is repairing the damage it did to the United Nations so that body has international respect and can be used more effectively to stop future oportunistic, so called pre-emptive invasions by bully nations, the US being one.

Yes, GET OUT NOW...

And get back to good old fashioned foriegen policy of diplomacy...

BObert

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 08:53 AM

And the new rallying war cry is "support the troops".

There are also the war apologists, like more than a few of the Kerry folks, who keep saying oh no, we can't pull out, now that we're there we need to finish the job, like they are in Falluja right now.

Support the troops slaughtering Iraqis and plunging the entire region into war?

Not in my name, thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST,EURO
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 09:19 AM

"You Americans need a government run by the minority."

In fifty years you'll have your wish. Euro-Americans (white Americans of European ancestry) will be a minority. But don't look to us to bail you out when America REALLY gets screwed. The world looks to America to help them when disaster strikes in their own countries. In America the current minorities expect government programs established by Euro-Americans to help them. In fifty years you all will be on your own, no one will save your sorry assess then. We'll sit back and watch all of you "de-evolved" into self destruction.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST,US
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 09:25 AM

What the fuck is your name guest? Boy George?

Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST,liberace
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 09:28 AM

i'm guessin yours is metal cock-sucker

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 09:50 AM

I'm tired of the cream of our young people dying to support the whining entitlement minded parasites in this country. I'm tired of an entire generation of promise being blown away to put gas in your SUV. I'm tired of ungrateful "fair-weather friend" nations. I'm tired of all those who think they are owed something just because they exist. Fend for yourselves, a day of reckoning is coming.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST,US
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 09:56 AM

The day of reckoning is here for the Terrorists in Falujah. If you feel so much for them, go and join them.

Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 09:58 AM

Terroists I have no time for, but that does not include the majority of innocents who are bound to be killed in large numbers

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 10:01 AM

Uncle Sam open your eyes. I don't feel for them. I feel for us as a nation. Don't you feel any compassion for our own people dying? Are you a parent? A soldier? A child? of anyone who has gone off to war? Our young people are dying for gas?!?!?! You don't think that's horrible? This is not a noble war. We don't have the support of our former allies, we may never have it again. There are small children whose fathers have died who are too young to be able to remember them when they are grown. Stop your flag waving long enough to see the tragedy.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST,8:53 a.m.
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 10:13 AM

So Guest 10:01, you are saying we should only be concerned about the lives and safety of American troops?

Who is it you are talking about that you don't feel for? The terrorists?

How about the Iraqi civilians caught in the crossfire? Does the tragedy include them, or do you prefer just not thinking about innocent civilians being blown to bits by our air strikes?

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 10:30 AM

I'm saying 8:53am we need to do what the rest of the world does. Take care of our own first.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST,8:53 a.m.
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 10:39 AM

Hmmmm, now how is it exactly that "our own" got themselves across the world in "their country"?

How exactly is invading and occupying a foreign country which posed no threat to us, and slaughtering it's population for resisting that invasion and occupation, "taking care of our own"?

Hey I know! Maybe if we can take care of our own in Iraq, we'll figure out how to take care of our own here at home! Wont' that be a special day.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST,US
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 10:46 AM

Guest:

All your feeling is in the head of your dick.

Are you a Citizen of the US or just a fucking agitator?

Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST,8:53 a.m.
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 10:55 AM

From today's BBC News:

"The first hurdle therefore that this operation has to overcome is to avoid major civilian casualties.

If it turns out to be a blood bath, the warning from the UN Secretary General Kofi Annan that it might jeopardise the very political process it is designed to support, could come true."

And we all know that keeping the sham elections on schedule is much more important than protecting civilian lives, their homes, and the cities' infrastructures and institutions like hospitals and clinics.

The BBC finishes up with this:

"Key problems will remain after the battle is over.

The hope among US and Iraqi government strategists is that the insurgents will at last be on the run and that the tide will be turned.

The fear is that the insurgents will gain more support, that they will be dispersed but will not disappear."

Funny isn't it, how when you hear a slaughter referred to as a "battle" or a "military operation" or even a "siege" you just don't think about the civilians at all?

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 11:01 AM

CNN anchor Carol Lin just narrated some shocking footage provided to the cable network by the US military or an embedded pool camera. It shows what she said are Iraqi special forces and US troops storming Fallujah's main hospital and taking control of it.

She said it is "important to take over this hospital so that the doctors can treat any war casualties unimpeded without any pressure from insurgents to spout anti-American propaganda like 'Americans are killing civilians,' et cetera."

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 11:12 AM

11:01, see my remarks in the Falluja thead on the storming of the hospital there.

This is yet another day of shame for the US. We are barbarians.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST,US
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 11:20 AM

Giest:

Obviously you are one of those Limey wimps like Neville Chamberlain.

Uncle Sam

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 11:24 AM

As the "battle" of Falluja unfolds, we shouldn't expect to see the suffering of the Iraqi people or the brutality of our troops in Western news reports. Those channels of information will be conscientiously foreclosed and replaced with "embedded" reporters whose job is to detail the valiant struggle of US marines subduing
the native population. When the US media merges with the US military, the media can easily make even a civilian bloodbath look like heroism.

Support the troops, y'all.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST,US
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 11:30 AM

Terrorists are clever at using media to spread propaganda.

The BBC has fallen into their trap. They have the Brits on thier side.

The wrong side.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST,Limey son of a bitch
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 11:43 AM

Yes Uncle Sam, we Brits are on the side of the terrorists. Can't you tell. The Black Watch are secretly supplying ammo and guns to insurgents. Blair is trying to destroy America from the inside. Wake up Sam and smell the truth. The kind of clap trap that gives your countrymen a bad name. And the Neville Chamberlain Bullshit, don't get me started. The Yanks took how long to join the war effort. I'm British, I was appalled at what happened on Sept 11th, but that don't mean I authorise the killing of civillians. Either find something intelligent to say or shut the hell up moron.

Limey and proud

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 11:49 AM

I could answer this diatribe but it wouldn't mean anything. The premise is absurd. When Guest says:

"Honestly Frank, you have all the blood on your hands that Bush, et al have--you supported their war by supporting the Republican Lite pro-war candidate."

It becomes a smear campaign just like the Swift Boat for Truth ads. I will reiterate that the only reason Kerry supported the war was that he thought that a threat would keep the UN inspectors in place. He was consistent. I don't agree with this position but I could understand it.

"How many lives did blind support for the Kerry hawk take? Quite a few."

Kerry didn't instigate a pre-emptive strike on Iraq. Bush did. He said he would have handled it differently. He did not say how.

"You are so pathetic in your attempts to make yourself look like Bush being re-elected wasn't your fault. You are sleazily trying to weasal out of any accountability for your actions supporting a pro-war candidate."

This kind of rhetoric will ensure the GOP a run for the next thirty years. Why is it that there are some rabble rousers on the Left who refuse to do anything important but trash others who would normally be on their side? Why is Guest so angry? Is he a plant by Republican operatives? Sounds just like Karl Rove to me.

"Do any of us feel safer with Bush at the helm? What the hell kind of ludicrous statement is that? The progressive left that wasn't blinded by hatred for Bush, that still had functioning intellects, NEVER supported EITHER pro-war candidate."

The statement wasn't addressed to the Guest who by the way is unable to reveal his name. That's what makes it so suspicious. I think Kerry was more a potential statesman than Bush and would have brought our troops home. Now with Bush in power we will never know. All Bush, Cheney and Rove have to do is point a finger at our Guest here and laugh.

"You just keep refusing to accept responsibility for Bush's re-election, and think you can come in mouthing the anti-war rhetoric you shouted down on November 1st. You are a damn hypocrite."

Too bad the Guest's anger isn't channelled toward a more productive end. Since I worked very hard to get Kerry elected, I bear no responsibility for Bush's election. OTOH, the Guest is apparently not anti-war since he seems to
feel that yelling and screaming violence is the answer to solving the world's problems. I think the Guest is very young and needs to take his rage out on someone else. But the problem with this kind of rage and smear is that it doesn't solve anything and really adds to the ammunition of the Right-wing.

It's the same old problem with some like Guest on the Radical Left. They kind of mirror the Radical Right in shouting down the opposition and refusing to reason with dialogue. It's too easy to smear and yell epithets because it takes away from their responsibility to have a decent dialogue with the rest of the world.This may be one reason why Progressives are not in office now.

I am sincere in believing that we should support our troops by bringing them home. I don't agree that Kerry was responsible for any of the blood letting in Iraq. He, unlike the Guest, has had experience in war and knows how horrible it really is. He has served on the basis of his convictions which I respect.

Please, folks on the Left, can't we start organizing and getting together rather than smearing each other and by so doing claim some kind of superior moral ground? I hear Karl Rove's laughter now.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 11:51 AM

Most the international news outlets (except the US ones of course) are beginning to report that boys and men are no longer being allowed to leave the area around Fallujah, and that Allawi has now closed all of Iraq's borders and Baghdad international airport.

These are all clear signs of a massacre going on.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 11:57 AM

The Nazis established puppet regimes in occupied countries too, Doug. Vidkun Quisling ran one of them in Norway, didn't he? Another comparable regime: Ngo Dinh Diem in South Vietnam. Remember him? To think that the USA is establishing...or ever had any intention of establishing...a democracy in Iraq (or anywhere else) is to believe in an utter and absolute fairy tale. The USA establishes puppet client states who follow orders without question or get terminated.

Now, I'm not saying that YOU don't want democracy in Iraq. I know you do. That's fine. But what you don't get is that that is NOT what your government wants or has any intention of doing. And it never was.

You're being taken for a ride, Doug, and supporting a very bad government without knowing it.

There were 80 million Germans who did the same thing once, and people couldn't tell them a thing either. Remember? Most of them were good people, same as you.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: DougR
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 04:11 PM

Hold up for just a minute and think. Have those of you who advocate immediate withdrawal of Coalition troops from Iraq thought about what would happen to the Iraqi people were we to do that? Think about it.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: Once Famous
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 04:17 PM

They don't get it DougR.

The Iraqui people would be dogmeat if we weren't there fighting for them to have a democracy.

They just don't get it.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: Peace
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 04:40 PM

Many of the Iraqi people would suffer seriously were the Yanks, Brits, etc., pull out. The UN will end up resolving this mess. You do NOT use hot war troops to be peacekeepers. That is not their training. End the war. Replace the troops--call Canada, we know what we're doing (unless it involves submarines)--and get the hell out.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: Once Famous
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 04:58 PM

We gave the UN their chance. Over and over again.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 05:26 PM

We never gave UN a chance. The Inspectors were doing a good job. But the Right-wing warmongers decided that it wasn't in their best political interest to let the inspections take place. They'd rather go in and slaughter innocent people in Iraq. Why is it that this Administration think that blood-letting and murderous occupation of Iraq even after Saddam had been caught will give them any kind of moral high ground? The rest of the world knows that this Administration has corrupted America. The Bushies are making dogmeat out of innocent women and children.

If we were to withdraw, it couldn't be any worse than it is now. We have replaced Saddam with another dicatator, Allawi does not represent the Iraqi people. There's going to be another civil war there anyhow but as long as American troops remain there, they will be a united front against what the Iraqis consider to be oppressors.

Were Kerry in office, he would know how to solve the problem. He could make arrangements with the various warring factions and bring in the world community. He was very clear about this in his speeches. But now he's gone. So it's Monday morning quarterbacking.

The only thing that makes sense now is to raise our voices in protest against this illegal, immoral war. Why was Vietnam being revisited? Because it is happening again.

Frank