BS: Spy Network in U.S.

Subject: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: GUEST,Concerned
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 08:15 PM

"In another blow to American freedom, among many other similar blows of recent months, the American War Leader, and who is now ranked as one of the most unpopular Presidents in modern history, has issued orders for his Nation's Internal Security Police, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to begin recruitment of over 15,000 informants to begin spying on their fellow American citizens...."

"...According to a recent unclassified report to Congress, the FBI expects its informants to provide secrets about possible terrorists and foreign spies, although some may also be expected to aid with criminal investigations, in the tradition of law enforcement confidential informants...."

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/feedback/26-07-2007/95315-domestic_spying-0

"(2-13-06) In a recent interview with former KGB General Yevgeny Primakov made note of the fact that he and his erstwhile ex-KGB chums, Generals Oleg Kalugin and Alexander Karpov, along with the former East German secret police chief (Stasi) General Marcus Wolf, and, of all people, General Richard Secord had formed a new company headquartered in beautiful downtown Sophia, Bulgaria, with the name that sounds like Trans-Global Security Consulting Group Ltd. The purpose of this new outfit is going to be providing security consulting and, more specifically, training for the heads of what will be, in the post-PATRIOT III environment, the new political organization of the Neighborhood Watch Association, as well as training for the CDF (Civilian Defense Force) when it is fully funded. After their (Generals Primakov, Kalugin, Karpov and Wolf's) service to the Department of Homeland Security as domestic security advisors, Primakov was certain that they could get the job done: the job being to provide training as a de facto secret police or, to use General Kalugin's words, the formation of a new Gestapo in the United States."

http://www.almartinraw.com/

(The East German Stasi. Very efficient mass-murdering East German secret police. They did their job by getting Germans to spy on one another. The man who ran it--Wolf--died recently, but he was hired by Homeland Security to set up the same system in America. Also in on the construction of the citizen spying network is Yevgeny Primakov, former head of the Russian KGB. Anyone see a problem with this?)

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 08:35 PM

As much as I detest the current administration, these lunatic fringe sources and an unnamed "guest" poster don't inspire confidence either.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Sorcha
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 08:38 PM

Right, Stilly. And, right, said Fred.

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 08:39 PM

Sounds like the next logical step in the grand plan. The irony is that the USA will finally become exactly what it has been warning its people against for the last couple of hundred years.

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: pdq
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 08:39 PM

Anyone see a problem with this?

Nope.

Now, go blow your nose with a cactus.

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 08:43 PM

So what's new about domestic informants?

John

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 08:51 PM

"Anyone see a problem with this?"

Nope - it's typical Cold War Propaganda - some people have the agenda to reignite Cold War, Nuke threats, etc...

If this is the same anonymous looney by just another name who had no understanding of Science or Engineering before, citing from similar mostly unsubstantiated looney fringe sources as before, well it certainly makes a good SF story... reminds me of the Goof Ol' Flying Saucer Nuts...

Of none of what I said means that it can't happen, unfortunately...

Just ask Dr Haneef what Little Fascist Johnny and his mad mates did recently...

Very little difference between their current behaviour and what happened in Germany in 1933... when the government overruled the courts granting bail to 'suspects' to lock people up again using 'Leglislated Ministerial Powers'... and of course the 'evidence' was
all faulty lying BS...

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 09:09 PM

For about 50 years the FBI was run by a paranoid lunatic named J. Edgar Hoover, a very sick man, a man whose instincts were anything but democratic in nature. I'm sure the organization that evolved under his guidance would make a superb Gestapo. All you would have to do is issue them the appropriate orders.

Team them up with the CIA and you would have the most efficient and deadly secret police outfit the world has ever seen.

All it takes is leaders with the will to do it.

The Constitution will avail you nothing under the rule of such people. Remember the McCarthy era and the HUAC? They could ask you anything they wanted in their kangaroo court, and you had to answer simply "yes" or "no" or else you were held "in contempt of Congress". They circumvented the Bill of Rights. They can do it. Only question is, will they?

If they do, plenty of ordinary people will cheer them on in the name of "national security" and "patrotism". I bet a majority would cheer them on or just stand silently by. That's what happened in Germany.

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 09:13 PM

Efficient? The CIA and the FBI??? You're talking about the ones in the US, right?

The FBI that infiltrated the Communist Party of the US and ended up informing on other agents that had infiltrated...?

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 09:29 PM

"infiltrated the Communist Party of the US and ended up informing on other agents that had infiltrated"

Ha! You should read "The Illuminati Trilogy" - where they poke fun at that sort of stuff... and all the other 'Conspiracy Theories'...

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Sorcha
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 09:37 PM

Ask your local law enforcement officers about the FBI.....I'm scared of them just because they are so incompetent most of the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: GUEST,Concerned
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 09:48 PM

As reported by ABC's Brian Ross, the FBI has adopted a plan to recruit 15,000 covert informants in the United States to help keep America safe from terrorists, criminals, pickpockets, litterbugs, jaywalkers, people who cheat on eye exams, and other public menaces.

At a cost of over $22 million, the FBI will train their new "confidential human sources" to become the Bureau's eyes and ears in every neighborhood. Their job? Reporting to FBI officials anybody "suspicious"...

http://www.milforddailynews.com/opinion/x527476112

The program has a price tag on it and was reported by ABC news. I know it's a human reflex to deny the bad, but...this is ABC news. Repeat...ABC news, Brian Ross.

Anyway, now that you've joined the "lunatic fringe" that believes ABC news, let me point out that this is 1) just the BEGINNING of this FBI program, and 2) "terrorism" is lumped in with other "crimes." Are you starting to have a problem with it yet?

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: GUEST,Concerned
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 09:50 PM

The FBI is not incompetent. Cover story. Like the Democrats' saying they were going to end the war, impeach, etc. All bullshit, all the time. The FBI has merged with the freakin' Stasi. Incompetence is not an option.

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 09:54 PM

The Stasi was not incompetent?

ROFL...

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: GUEST,Concerned
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 10:11 PM

From the link above, the one that mentions that fringe network ABC:

"...the FBI domestic spy program resembles nothing so much as the notorious STASI of communist East Germany, where as many as one out of every 50 citizens signed up as "unofficial collaborators" to spy on each other.

But the FBI doesn't have to go so far back for plans on getting citizens to rat on fellow citizens. Saddam Hussein, for instance, had a very effective network of government spies, called the Mukhabarat. Or the FBI could set up the American equivalent of Saudi Arabia's religious police, a few of whom were arrested last week for beating a man to death after finding a bottle of alcohol in his apartment.

Whatever they call it, the horde of FBI collaborators is one more assault by the Bush administration on the right of privacy. Unless Congress intervenes to stop it, the FBI domestic spying program will join the Patriot Act, the NSA phone taps and the Pentagon's secret "TALON" data base as one more assault on our basic liberties - all justified under the guise of Bush's so-called war on terror.

ABC reports that there may be one consolation. Originally, the FBI considered putting domestic spies through the same training courses used by the CIA to recruit spies in foreign countries. According to Steven Aftergood of the Federation of American Scientists, it's a good thing they dropped that plan: "U.S. intelligence officers abroad can use bribery, extortion and other patently illegal acts to corral sources into working for them. You're not supposed to do that in the United States." Which, of course, doesn't mean they won't.

What's even more disturbing than the idea that the FBI would set up a huge domestic spying program is the fact that most Americans will probably accept this latest manifestation of the price we have to pay for fighting terror. In fact, the opposite is true. Every time we give up one inch of freedom, the terrorists win.

Don't you feel safer knowing the FBI will soon have a plan in place to spy more effectively on the ACLU, PETA, Quakers, Moveon.org. and other suspicious characters?..."

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 10:27 PM

I'd say of those organizations (FBI and Stasi)...they were and have been both competent and incompetent, it all depends on how you look at it. Incompetent in the details. Competent in that they usually succeeded in putting someone "out of business" when they wanted to. They generally achieved their objectives. This is typical of the largest and most powerful bureacratic organizations. They succeed not through efficiency, necessarily, but through brute strength and unwavering purpose. The Stasi finally failed when the very system that they served itself failed, but not before.

There's a saying: "I fought the law and the law won."

Why? Why does the law win? Not because the law is necessarily efficient or wise or particularly competent. No...but because the law is BIG. It's big enough to outlast and crush any private individuals who may challenge it...or get in its way.

People would find this true, on an individual basis, if the law enforcement agencies and intelligence community in the USA turned their strength toward serving a quasi-dictatorship, just as they have found it true in any number of other countries.

There would then be a number of choices, such as...

1. Go underground and resist clandestinely. (very risky)
2. Flee the country. (always an option, if you can find somewhere to go)
3. Join the forces of oppression (many would opt for that).
4. Try to avoid getting into trouble, be a good little worker, and keep your head down. (even more would opt for that)
5. Engage in open resistance and even violent insurrection. (Good luck! Be prepared for a short life with a violent ending. But, hey, you never know...sometimes such revolutions succeed.)

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: GUEST,Concerned
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 10:57 PM

Your tinfoil's too tight Little Hawk. The government program doesn't exist. There. I close my eyes and it just goes away. You forgot to put that choice on your list. It seems to be the one in favor here so far.

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 11:08 PM

It was not unknown for there to be a meeting of a presumed communist cell at which the attendance consisted of a whole bunch of FBI agents, each of whom did not know about the others—and maybe one genuine communist.

Of course it's the same anonymous loony. Dollars to donuts.

Vigilance is prudent. But paranoia can drive you nuts (as our Guest of many names amply demonstrates).

Hey, GUEST! There's something under your bed! And it's drooling. . . !

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: GUEST,Concerned
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 11:23 PM

1) ABC news tells the American public there is an FBI program which intends to recruit 15,000 "informants." Start-up cost $22 million. The purpose of this program will be to spy and gather tips about terrorism and "other crimes."
2) Firth joins the brigade of those who say it doesn't exist.

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 01:10 AM

Oh, go away. You make me tired. I've heard this crap since the middle 1960s, and face it, 15,000 "informants" in a country of 300,000,000 amounts to...are you ready for this?...0.000005 informants for every man, woman, and child in the US!! And if you don't believe me, get a calculator and do the math yourself: it's 15,000/300,000,000, or 15/300,000, or 1/20,000 of an informant per person.

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 02:19 AM

Yes, Rapaire, that has always been the toughest thing about managing a really effective dictatorship. You need so many people to enforce it. So many carry-outers. If you can get a majority of the people to support the government, though, it's not nearly so hard. For that you need a supposed threat. A boogeyman. The boogeyman can be either foreign or domestic. To have both is even better.

It can be done. You need the boogeymen. You need provocations (violent acts of destruction, supposedly committed by the boogymen). You need a state of fear, even panic. You need a compliant, subservient, bought media. You need ruthless men at the top. You need soldiers and police who will follow orders. You need a steady flow of fearmongering propaganda.

Those ingredients have all been achieved in the USA already. The strongest thing standing in the way of such a takeover is the weight of past democratic tradition and free ideals in your society...and the presence of some, I should think in your government and military who are willing to defend it. That and common sense.

The same goes for Canada. The same goes for the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: GUEST,Concerned
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 02:50 AM

But see, this is just the BEGINNING of the program. And the economy is getting ready to collapse. When the soccer moms can't take the kids to the Olive Garden anymore, what'll they do to silence the little brats? Narking on a neighbor is a small price to pay for that nostalgic dining out experience. The budget for spies will be increased, and the competition for the jobs will be fierce.

The cowards who have retreated to the hidey holes in Idaho and places like that may think it's not a big deal, but it is. The U.S. is overwhelmingly urban, and when the water is shut off and the food deliveries to the cities stop, just what WILL people divulge about their neighbors? First they'll tell who has guns, then who spoke against the govt., etc. And the cowards who think they're escaping this fate are woefully mistaken. Modern technologies can turn 15,000 frequently-updated inputs, cross-referenced with medical, arrest, driving, purchasing, internet, and television viewing habits into quite a personal profile.

You're in denial, Rapaire. And you're a gun owner, by your own admission. They'll come for you first. Whatchu gonna do? Halliburton has built 10 million bed spaces in the last 7 years. You gonna slave away in a labor camp? You gonna be like those Jews who were stripped naked and marched up to the pits that would hold their bodies...just keep going along to get along?

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Mr Happy
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 09:23 AM

FBI: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9kGT71H5MGQ

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 09:26 AM

You have any idea how many guns and how much ammo is in Idaho? In this town of about 53,000 (hardly a "hidey-hole," being the fourth-largest city in the state [the Boise area has the top 3], a major rail connection and sitting at the junction of two Interstates with an airport that can handle 747s) the estimate is 4.7 firearms per PERSON. The FBI center here is, of course, training agents for deployment around the West, especially in Seattle, Portland, SF and LA, but that's all been in the local paper and the local TV stations, so we know their tactics and weaponry. No trouble here is expected because Idaho, as I'm sure you're aware, is a "Red State" and indeed is as scarlet as Utah. And the closest Halliburton buildings are at the old Minidoka internment camp, where the on-site managers say we can expect up to 25,000 tourists to come visiting from NYC sometime in the next few months -- they'll be taking a vacation on a genuine Idaho cattle farm, learning how farmers and ranchers work.

Oh, in the words of the immortal Foghorn Leghorn, "Go away, boy, ya bother me."

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Mr Happy
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 10:00 AM

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UcXWGPfibds

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 12:13 PM

LOL! Well, this proves that there are people in this world who are considerably less competent than the FBI, doesn't it? Thank you for the lovely links, Mr Happy.

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: beardedbruce
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 12:19 PM

"Rapaire - PM
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 09:26 AM

You have any idea how many guns and how much ammo is in Idaho? "

But isn't it the LIBERALS who are so gung-ho about eliminating firearms from private ownership, or at least making sure the government has a list of everyone who has a gun? I would think that there would be more concern of what a DEMOCRATIC administration, with a Democratic-controlled Congress, would do.

THAT is the scary thought that keeps me wake at night. Just think of what they can do "for our own good" once they retake control.

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 01:01 PM

Oh, Bruce...we'd just make you part of a "well regulated militia"...you'd still have toys to play with....just not unlimited ones under your bed...*grin*

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 01:08 PM

I'd be scared to think that either the Democrats OR the Republicans were about to retake control. They're equally untrustworthy.

Perhaps Idaho might consider seceding from the Union?

If it's any comfort to you, BB, I will NOT take your guns away. ;-) And I will see that you are not put on the dreaded "list" either....


...that is...providing you stop posting those damned sonnets.

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 01:10 PM

Wow, Little Hawk! You're moving down here and running for office?

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 01:19 PM

I would if I didn't love this country so much, Bill. ;-)

Say, did you see that Foghorn Leghorn cartoon on the 2nd link? There is the most classically awful depiction of phony "Indian" behaviour on it that I've seen in a long time...this time on the part of Henery Hawk, the diminutive chicken hawk. Sheesh. Talk about offensive (and very silly)! The amazing thing was that such a depiction of "Indian" characters was completely taken for granted back then in the 30's, 40's, and 50's. I wonder how actual Indians felt when they watched those cartoons back then? It must have been a weird experience from their point of view.

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: GUEST,Concerned
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 04:52 PM

Report to headquarters:

Mixed results. Some at the forum are of the opinion the spy program doesn't exist (Silly River Sage, pdq, Foolstroupe, Don Firth). Nothing need be done with them, as they are the type that will retreat to their "safe place" when threatened with reality.

Other responses are of the acceptable "can't fight city hall" type, and a couple trivialize through humor.

Our operative is doing his/her work well in this thread. He/she has not been detected, judging from the posts.

The most serious problem area noted is in the thinking of Little Hawk. He has presented unacceptable options and will be monitored, but he is from north of the border and cannot be dealt with until Canada is assimilated.

End of transmission.

cc: the White House
cc: the Clinton Campaign

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Mr Happy
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 05:10 PM

GUEST,Concerned,


'..........cannot be dealt with until Canada is assimilated.'


Are you 'BORG' ?

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 05:25 PM

"Concerned" is just 7 of 9.

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 05:28 PM

The cartoons I watched as a kid (the above linked was one of 'em) were full of that sort of thing. I thought they were great, still do. I wouldn't like something made today with the same sorts of caricatures. I was, for instance, offended by Jar-Jar Binks.

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: SINSULL
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 05:33 PM

So why don't we all apply for these positions and hand in reports sure to get baby bush et al impeached.

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Don Firth
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 05:55 PM

"Nothing need be done with them, as they are the type that will retreat to their 'safe place' when threatened with reality."

I have two comments for you, GUEST,Concerned:

First comment—   We happen to be the ones in touch with reality. You, on the other hand, are the one who is spending your life cruising the internet for the latest conspiracy theory (and some that have been around since Biblical times) and trying to get everyone else to join you in your paranoid fantasies. We don't care to join you in your padded cell because we're out here with our eyes open and our ears tuned to be sure we know what's really going on. And, believe me, there is more than enough to be concerned about without your running around shouting "Wolf! Wolf! Wolf!" Someone has to mind the store while you're cowering in the corner. That's what we are doing.

Second comment—   Take that whole sheaf of conspiracy theories and panic attacks you enjoy so much, wad them into a big ball, and stuff them up there with your brain.

Have a rainbow day.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 06:11 PM

Assimilation is exactly what has been worrying us Canadians ever since 1812. Be advised that we will resist assimilation strenuously, despite the depressing presence of WalMart and other such corporate crap that has infiltrated here already.

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 07:23 PM

I love the logic...

"you don't agree with me and SEE the danger, therefore you have been either 'gotten to' or are just too blind and careless to bother with'."

You'd be surprised how much some of us know and follow, oh 'concerned one'.

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Don Firth
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 07:44 PM

Okay, GUEST of many names (in this incarnation, Guest, Concerned), I figure that you are either

A person of the Neo-Con persuasion (one of those who thinks a dictatorship of the corporations—but, of course, don't call it that—would be good for this country and for the world at large), who wishes to discredit anyone who calls attention to the Neo-Con power-grab. The method is to spread so many half-assed conspiracy theories that when someone tries to get people to look at what the Neo-Cons are really up to, everyone else will simply write off their concerns as "just another of those harebrained conspiracy theories." [This, incidentally, is known as the "octopus's ink" approach to hiding one's true intentions.]

or

You are a morally challenged flak who is working for the Neo-Con/corporate coalition (Hell's Bells! Let's call it what it really is:   Fascists!), and your job is to spread your wares over the internet.

or

You are a genuine loony.

Frankly, I don't care which one you are. But to the extent that you get people to actually believe your rubbish and try to spread it around, you're doing a fine job for those who aspire to be the real tyrants.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 08:35 PM

Ya beat me to it Don...

as to the 'competence of the stasi' I agree with Little Hawk.

but from my viewpoint - if they were so competent, then the group they were supporting must have been dissapointed in the stasi's competence when the power structure collapsed, which if the stasi were 'competent' they would have succeded in holding up...

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 08:54 PM

Every system comes to a time when no amount of competence on the part of its security forces will hold it up any longer. A study of history will confirm that. Systems, like people and other living things, have a finite lifetime. Their future is uncertain, but one thing is certain...they will be replaced by something else one day. The less competent systems (and lifeforms) tend to pass away sooner, but they all pass away eventually.

Yeah, I'm sure the East German leaders were perturbed with the Stasi's failures. The stasi probably felt the same way about the political leaders. Their time was coming to an end. Everyone tends to blame someone else for it when that happens.

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: GUEST,Concerned
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 10:19 PM

Okay. You folks caught me. I got Brian Ross to say that on ABC News. And I got the FBI to fib about setting up the program. I got the FBI spokesman to say $22 million would be spent on the program, when really we just spent a buck eighty-nine on a six-pack of cheap beer before we sat down to write up the news release.

I also tripped up the Stasi and boy were they mad about that. They bragged that they had a spy in every factory and business, every apartment complex and housing project, but then I backed that dozer into the Berlin Wall and things just haven't been the same since. The Stasi claimed they were succeeding, and I know that people who were ratted out were "disappearing" right and left, and the country was committing national suicide by going into negative reproductive numbers because they'd rather die than feed children to torturing mass-murderers, but then you can't trust those lessons of history.

Anyway, you caught me making up the cold war and all that, so let's get back to the ball game. Where's that pizza?

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Ebbie
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 10:43 PM

Froth, sarcasm is not really your forte, is it. You're not very good at it.

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 06:19 AM

NSA spying part of broader effort

Intelligence chief says Bush authorized secret activities under one order

By Dan Eggen
The Washington Post
Updated: 11:34 p.m. CT July 31, 2007

The Bush administration's chief intelligence official said yesterday that President Bush authorized a series of secret surveillance activities under a single executive order in late 2001. The disclosure makes clear that a controversial National Security Agency program was part of a much broader operation than the president previously described.

The disclosure by Mike McConnell, the director of national intelligence, appears to be the first time that the administration has publicly acknowledged that Bush's order included undisclosed activities beyond the warrantless surveillance of e-mails and phone calls that Bush confirmed in December 2005.

In a letter to Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.), McConnell wrote that the executive order following the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks included "a number of . . . intelligence activities" and that a name routinely used by the administration -- the Terrorist Surveillance Program -- applied only to "one particular aspect of these activities, and nothing more."

"This is the only aspect of the NSA activities that can be discussed publicly, because it is the only aspect of those various activities whose existence has been officially acknowledged," McConnell said.

The program that Bush announced was put under a court's supervision in January, but the administration now wants congressional approval to do much of the same surveillance without a court order.

[note that technically even the names of members of the secret court are secret, and that only one person, hand picked by die führer appoints all of them, in secret.]

So now we know that the Secret program to spy on us isn't the only secret program to spy on us, but that there are other Secret Secret programs for spying on us, but they only want exemption from warrants for the Secret spying. (And to pretend that Gonzales didn't commit perjury.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: GUEST,Concerned
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 09:32 AM

Because of repeated implications here that the current administration is fascist, headquarters told me to administer the following test:

Neo-cons are:
A)fascist conservative Christians, B)Mucka-Luckas from the planet Zoid, C)Trotskyite communists.

The correct answer is C, of course. I'll report that you all got it right. The neo-cons are Trotskyite communists. If you want to prepare for a possible essay question on this, just google up the speech "Neo-conned" or the name Leo Strauss. And on any future essay question, keep in mind that the enormous expansion of government under the current administration is exactly what the OTHER party is noted for doing, hence, there is no difference between the parties.

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Mr Happy
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 10:36 AM

More covert operations here:http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vmEzeqi2xD0

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 11:51 AM

Well, I guess that settles it.

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 12:56 PM

IS there a Microsoft Word 2003?

Subject: RE: BS: Spy Network in U.S.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 01:11 PM

Holy shit. That is bizarre. I just tried it out in Microsoft Word 2001 and yes...the program prompts you to capitalize "Lucifer" (and all other proper names, I would assume, such as "Mary" or Bob or John...just tried Mary)...AND...get this: it prompts you to capitalize "Seeing Eye"....but not any other such pair of words.

Here is what I typed and how the program prompted the capitals:

I love god. I wonder about Lucifer. I also wonder about the Seeing Eye. Are Lucifer and the Seeing Eye connected?   What about Mary?

Here is the bouncing ball.

Here is the waving flag.

Here is the Seeing Eye.

The program takes no notice of "bouncing ball" or "waving flag" but it does insist on capitalizing "Seeing Eye".

Why?