Lyr Req: Would You Care (Charles K Harris, 1905)

Subject: Folklore: Would YouCare
From: Louie Roy
Date: 03 Jun 05 - 01:39 PM

I checked the forum but didn't find anything on this tune (Would You Care) so maybe one of you can answer my question This tune was originally written in 1891 and I heard Lulu Belle and Scotty sing it many times in the 1930s and 1940s and for years I thought that they composed it,but in 1969 another person came out with this tune by the same name (Would You Care) and made a big hit out of it.He changed a few words but theorectically the tune is the same.Same Notes Same Tune Same everything except the wording changed slightly. (Example)
Originally written.Would you care if I should leave you 1891.His version 1969.Just suppose that I should leave you.In my opinion this artist took credit for something he didn't have the right to.Other opinions.One other note Lulu Belle and Scotty sang it the same way it was originally written that is where I learned it Louie Roy

Subject: RE: Folklore: Would YouCare
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Jun 05 - 02:00 PM

"Would You Care," 1905, in Levy Sheet Music, by Charles K. Harris (words and music).
1st line- lift your eyes to mine darling
Chorus-
Would you care if I should leave you?
Would you care if we should part?
If someone told you that another won my heart?
Would you care if you found me closely held in some-one's arms?
Would your heart ache just a little,
Tell me darling, would you care?

Is this like the L & S recording?

The Lulu Belle and Scotty recording is available at Homestead Records, but I don't have it and can't compare. Not on The Record Lady.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Would YouCare
From: Louie Roy
Date: 03 Jun 05 - 02:55 PM

Yes Q this is exactly the way Lulu Belle and Scotty sang it and that is the way I learned it.,exactly the way Charles K Harris recorded it in the 1890s'In 1969 Max Hunter came out with the same tune only he changed the wording some but not the title and the tune is identical and he took credit for it as a new tune and made a big hit out of it

Subject: RE: Folklore: Would YouCare
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 03 Jun 05 - 03:43 PM

Anything written as long ago as 1905 is out of copyright (which is why you can see the sheet music at Levy) and theoretically anyone can take the material and modify it and claim a copyright on their new version.

Then if you perform or record the new version, you owe royalties to the new copyright holder, but if you stick to the original version, or create your own version based strictly on the original, you owe no royalties to anybody.

It seems to me a person who creates a new version based on an out-of-copyright source should give credit to the original writer, if possible, but there is no law compelling them to do so. In the old days of 78-rpm and 45-rpm records, there was hardly any room to do so. I don't think 78s and 45s had jackets with liner notes as we know them today.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Would YouCare
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Jun 05 - 04:09 PM

Max Hunter listed and sang it as a folk song- he did not take credit for it as a new song. See Max Hunter Folk Song Collection:
Would You Care

Many folk song collections contain versions of copyright songs; The Traditional Ballad Index and books by Randolph and other collectors include a number of them. Most collectors either recorded the music on paper by ear or used a recording device; then transcribed the music into singable form, which they could copyright if they wished to do so.
It wasn't easy to find or trace origins before American Memory, Levy Sheet Music Collection, Brown Univ., etc. organized their holdings and went on line with their large inventories of music. Singers and collectors often didn't know or were uncertain of origins.

Subject: Lyr. Add: WOULD YOU CARE?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Jun 05 - 08:22 PM

Lyr. Add: Would You care?
Max Hunter version

If I was free from you my darlin'
I would start my life a new
We have been tied down so long dear
I no longer can't* be true
Now I know that I should tell you
It would be th thing to do
But I haven't got th heart t'say
I'm not in love with you.

Just suppose that I should leave you
Take another for my own
Just suppose that I forsake my vows
And leave you all alone
Well, I'm ashamed down deep inside me
That I haven't got th heart to say
I'm not in love with you.

Just suppose that I should leave you
Take another for her charms
Just suppose that you should find me
Closely held in someone's arms
Would your heart ache just a little
Tell me sweetheart would you care
Would you care if I should leave you
For another one so fair.

*can?
Cat. #0706, as sung by Max Hunter, Springfield, MO, April 20, 1969. With RealAudio.
Would You care

Subject: Lyr Add: WOULD YOU CARE (Charles K Harris, 1905)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Jun 05 - 08:45 PM

Lyr. Add: Would You Care
Words and music Chas. K. Harris 1905

Lift your eyes to mine my darling,
Let me see the love-light there,
For you know I love you dearly,
And to me there's none so fair.
Yet at times I often wonder,
Would you care, if I'd dare,
Tell you that my love had vanished
Tell me sweetheart would you care?

Chorus:
Would you care if I should leave you?
Would you care if we should part?
Would you care if someone told you
That another won my heart?
Would you care if you had found me
Closely held in some-ones arms?
Would your heart ache just a little,
Tell me darling, Would you care?

Just suppose I should forsake you,
Break my vows, leave you alone,
Just suppose I should reject you,
Take another for my own!
Just suppose that duty called me,
Would you cry, if I'd die,
And my eyes were closed forever
Tell me sweetheart would you care?

Chorus

Sheet music, Words and music Chas. K. Harris, pub. Chas. K. Harris NY, 1905.
http://levysheetmusic.mse.jhu.edu/levy-cgi/display.cgi?id=150a.086.000;pages=4;range=0-3
Would You care

Subject: RE: Folklore: Would YouCare
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Jun 05 - 08:56 PM

http://levysheetmusic.mse.jhu.edu/cgi-bin/display.pl?record=150a.086.000&pages=4
Would You care

(Would like to link the document listing page since it has the publishing and author details, but it just seems to be a query link)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Would YouCare
From: Louie Roy
Date: 03 Jun 05 - 11:21 PM

Q you posted the same lyrics that I have but on Max Hunter's version you left one line out in the second verse.The next line after Well,I'm ashamed down deep inside me. (should be)
That I've been untrue
Everything else is correct Louie Roy

Subject: RE: Folklore: Would YouCare
From: Louie Roy
Date: 04 Jun 05 - 10:57 AM

Q you said that Max Hunter didn't take credit for this song I have to differ just a bit.That is one reason this thread was started.I sang this the other night (the one I learned from Lulu Belle and Scotty back in the 1930s)at one of our gigs and my fiddle player said he knew the tune but the words he had on an LP were different.Of course I didn't believe him for as far as I knew at that time L&S were the only ones I'd ever heard do the tune.To make a long story short I went to his home and he had a Max Hunter LP he puchased in the 1970s and this tune was the first tune on the CD so I have to assume he did take credit for a song he rearranged

Subject: RE: Folklore: Would YouCare
From: Stewie
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 09:40 AM

According to Meade (p240), it was recorded by Byron G. Harlan for Victor twice in 1905 and again in 1907. Country recordings included Charles Nabell (1926), Tobacco Tags (1939), Roy Acuff and His Smoky Mountain Boys (1940) and Red River Dave McEnery (1940). Meade also gives the 1905 date for the Harris original publication.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Would YouCare
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 05 Jun 05 - 01:54 PM

Louie Roy said, in part:

and this tune was the first tune on the CD so I have to assume he did take credit for a song he rearranged

Why would that make you assume he took credit? (Assuming is always dangerous.) I could record, say, "Lord Randall", and that doesn't imply that I take credit for writing it, regardless where on my CD or other recording form I placed it. And that's so whether or not I changed a word or a line for modern understanding, or even with the idea of creating a copyrightable version.

Now, for my "slightly changed" version of "Lord Randall." on CD there would be two kinds of copyright that I might own, depending on my relationship with the record producer, who might be somebody else, might be me.

(1) The changed text is a "new" entity, as far as those textual changes I made. Anyone can continue to sing a traditional form of "Lord Randall" which doesn't have my text changes, and my copyright doesn't apply. Even if they sing the same version I sang on the CD, with my changes, it may be that any claim I make under copyright might be defeated in court by showing that others before me had seen the desirability of that change and made the same change that I, all unknowing, came along later and made. In other words, unless the changes are original to me I have no protection under that phase.

(2) The recording of my rendition would fall under copyright. Never mind that people have sung "Lord Randall" for many hundreds of years, and maybe even with the exact version of the words or tune I wrote. My presentation of the song (as opposed to the song itself) is copyrightable. So you can't (legally) play my CD on the radio without copyright exposure even if you know for a fact that the words I used are all traditional. My voice, my inflections, my individual take on the rhythms, are mine, unique, and that recorded presentation of the song is protected under copyright.

Now I will go out on a limb and assume something: The fact that he changed some inconsequential parts of the song for his version leads me to believe that he knowingly was doing it to create a version which, if it should take off in a big way, might yield him some copyright fees if people copycatted him and sang his popular version. If they used his version, they are trying to gain from the popularity or excellence of his work, and why shouldn't he get something for it?   The changed parts are merely his fingerprints, as it were, on the song, so that it can be shown that it's HIS version they are copycatting, not the public domain version.

Now things could get confusing: Let's go all the way and say you sing and record the traditional song exactly as I did--pauses, little quivers of the voice, the same words and tune, the same accompaniment. Let's even say it can be shown that you learned it off my CD, just that way. NOT copyright protected! That (2) copyright protection above has to do with the physical CD I produced, not my peformance. Performances as such are not copyrightable.

But your assumption as to what he claimed, just from his slightly different version being first on his CD, is baseless.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Folklore: Would YouCare
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jun 05 - 02:20 PM

The story/situation is completely reversed in the rewritten song.

In the original it's clear that he's still in love with the lady, but wants reassurance that she reurns the sentiment. In the rewritten version he's fed up with her, and hoping that she feels that way too so that he can move on.

That's not exactly "he changed some inconsequential parts of the song".