BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Jul 06 - 09:01 PM

Why can't Americans unite? Why do they insist on dividing up into Republicans and Democrats and fighting over it all the time?

Why can't Canadians unite?

For that matter, why can't assholes unite? If you observe what goes on in traffic and in your local drinking establishments, you will notice that there is tremendous disunity among assholes.

All these questions are worth pondering, eh? (snort!)

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: number 6
Date: 23 Jul 06 - 09:22 PM

Here's some nazal spray LH ... should remedy your sinus condition.

Now ... back to pondering what you just posted .... hmmmmmmm.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jul 06 - 09:24 PM

I just found out why assholes can't unite, if anyone's interested. The answer is much simpler than you may think.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: number 6
Date: 23 Jul 06 - 09:26 PM

I bypass any interest as to why Peace.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: number 6
Date: 23 Jul 06 - 09:27 PM

I think I'll go back and read the posts on Stoopid Sayings thread. They make more sense.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jul 06 - 10:54 PM

I don't think Dave is concerned about upsetting anyone who teaches their kids to murder and hate. He is obviously upset about kids being taught to hate and murder people as policy, and understands the statement for what it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 06:13 AM

Guest mg is that a veiled threat to me personally? I use quotes to illustrate my points, if someone is offended by that, I don't really care.

Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 07:41 AM

Because they are arrogant assholes.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 11:56 AM

See for yourselves I make no comment on this:

http://www.pmw.org.il/tv%20part3.html

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 08:43 PM

'"We ask that the countries stand by our side. We want them to help us. We only want them to give us weapons. We on our own - young boys and girls, will kill them on our own. Murder them, shoot all of them. Just give us weapons, the boys and the girls themselves; we will kill them all. We won't leave a single Jew. We won't leave a single Jew here."
[PA TV, October 22, 2000]'

What's to say?

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 08:34 PM

Alas, the dead are all united. It's the living of all nations that cannot unite--for obvious reasons.

The communists and the capitalists had it right. It was called "peaceful coexistence"----live and let live but carry a big stick. Things were tense, but it worked. Without them pushing on each other, everyone falls down. The sucking sound you hear is the vacuum. This chaos, that we are doing to each other, is a struggle to fill the void. If you are lucky, you'll be able to stay below the radar.

Love to all,

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: number 6
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 08:59 PM

"It was called "peaceful coexistence"----live and let live but carry a big stick. Things were tense, but it worked."

... yup they were tense alright ... Vietnam, Korea, Hungary, China (communist overthrow in case no one remembers) ... what was the death count of these four peaceful coexistance conflicts between the capitalists and the communists.

The following song that needs no introduction (but has been forgotten) was from back 'then'

The eastern world, it is exploding
Violence flarin', bullets loadin'
You're old enough to kill, but not for votin'
You don't believe in war, but what's that gun you're totin'
And even the Jordan River has bodies floatin'

But you tell me
Over and over and over again, my friend
Ah, you don't believe
We're on the eve
of destruction.

Don't you understand what I'm tryin' to say
Can't you feel the fears I'm feelin' today?
If the button is pushed, there's no runnin' away
There'll be no one to save, with the world in a grave
[Take a look around ya boy, it's bound to scare ya boy]

And you tell me
Over and over and over again, my friend
Ah, you don't believe
We're on the eve
of destruction.

Yeah, my blood's so mad feels like coagulatin'
I'm sitting here just contemplatin'
I can't twist the truth, it knows no regulation.
Handful of senators don't pass legislation
And marches alone can't bring integration
When human respect is disintegratin'
This whole crazy world is just too frustratin'

And you tell me
Over and over and over again, my friend
Ah, you don't believe
We're on the eve
of destruction.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 01:11 AM

You're right too, of course. Every coin hs two sides. Yin and yang. The paradox thing, all over again. But no nukes is good news--for several years--since 1945--at least.

To Unite is an ideal. It's to shoot for--certainly. Still, any day without a nuclear exchange is a good day!

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: dianavan
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 02:43 AM

The latest offensive by Israel is doing a pretty good job of uniting Arab nations. Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Palestine, afghanistan, Jordan, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia are all calling for a ceasefire and Israel continues to ignore them. It seems they are united in their condemnation of Israeli aggression.

Its time for Israel to stop playing the victim and start taking some responsibility for their own behaviour.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 09:47 AM

"Still, any day without a nuclear exchange is a good day!" ... you can't deny that Art!

But some of those nukes are still around ........ somewhere.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 09:53 AM

Dianavan insults all Iranians by referring to us as Arabs. We are Persians. I suppose in her ignorance, she assumes that all Middle Eastern people are Arabs (except, for the Jews, of course).

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: jaze
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 10:30 AM

Are Arabs only those from Saudi Arabia? Another question I've wondered about-what were Muslims before Muhammed?

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: number 6
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 10:50 AM

pagans.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 11:03 AM

The media should learn to differentiate between non combatants and civilian's. The vast majority of the deaths can be directly attributed to the fact that the rocket launchers are being manned by non uniformed members of a terrorist organization that breaks the rules by using civilians as shields and ambulances as ammunition and troop tansports. Remove a rifle away from a childs body and then photograph it at as a civilian casualty is another trick that works well. This is not my interpretation but UN observed.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 11:04 AM

Arabs are one ethnos of a related group, the Semites, including Arabs, Palestinians, Jews, and Phoenicians (and Carthaginians), Assyrians, Babylonians, Chaldaeans etc. They are grouped together because of similarities of language, ancient religion and ancient culture, and DNA studies have largely confirmed their common ancestry. The Phoenicians and other ancient kingdoms have been absorbed by other surrounding cultures in the last 2500 years, and the others have undergone many changes.

The biggest change involved the Jews, who, already dispersed as a trading culture before the Roman occupation, were scattered thoroughly afterwards and different groups (Ashkenazy, Sephardi, Falashas and several others) developed independently. Their cultural character and group mythology has been much influenced by the persistent persecution that they have suffered since, but which also helped to conserve their cultural identity against absorption into the surrounding communities.

The Arabs of Arabia delevoped Islam. Prior to Mohammed, Islam simply didn't exist, and the peoples of Arabia were Animist, with communities of Christians and Jews. Mohammed was inspired by Jewish and Christian teaching and had the advantage of seeing them in action. The Moslem expansion of the 7th Century gave them control and influence over much of North Africa and the Middle East, and the Arab culture mixed with and influenced many others in that area, including non-Jewish Semites, Berbers, Bedouin etc.

They also conquered or otherwise influenced many other non- related peoples- Persians, Kurds, Vandals and other Europeans who had settled in Africa and Spain, Tartars, Mongols, Turks, Indians of various ethnic origins, Malays, Indonesians etc.

Does that help?

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: number 6
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 11:10 AM

Before Islam .... they were pagans ... the Black Stone (the cornerstones of the Kaaba) and the crescent moon are derived from pre-Islam.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 11:14 AM

There was a book out about twenty years ago (western author) naming individuals he felt most influential in human history. He put Mohammed at the top.

Regarding Muslims prior to Mohammed. Mr. Burke's well written chronology is correct, but I'd add there is a component to Islam itself which 'adjusts' perceived inaccuracies in the existing scriptures. Therefore Abraham (Ibraham) becomes the first Muslim, God (Allah) didn't need to 'rest' on the seventh day, Jesus (Issa) while a holy man was not divine in nature, etc. In other words, the Torah, once amended, becomes an Islamic 'prequel'.

This is not that odd. Mormons have a practise of 'baptizing' (There's prob'ly a better Mormon term I'm not aware of) into the faith their ancestors and great figures in history. There was a newspaper story that there was a Mormon project to 'baptize' into the faith victims of the Holocaust.

Early Christians had the task of rectifying New Testament theology "None gets to the Father save through the Son" with Christian prehistory. I think that's how the theory of limbo got devised.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: dianavan
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 01:45 PM

Sorry for the insult, GUEST.

I know that most Iranians are Persians but you have to admit that there are alot of Arabs in Persia and that most Persians have adopted Islam.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 02:02 PM

Dianavan,

I don't need to admit anything to justify your insulting racism.

Your clarification that I have to admit there are a lot of Arabs in Persia (by which I assume you mean Iran) is nonsense. Arabs represent 3% of the Iranian population. By contrast Arabs represent 20% of Israel's population.

Yes, of course most Persians are Moslems. That's nothing new. It goes back centuries. Iran is an Islamic Republic. The supreme law of Iran is the Koran.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 03:13 PM

However the ancestral religion of Persia is Zoroastrianism, one of the oldest continuing faiths in practise. Islam was 'brought' to Persia much much later.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 03:23 PM

The Bahai faith, an offshoot from Islam, also originated in Persia in the 1800's as far as I recall, and it is now a world religion, albeit one of the smaller ones. Unlike Islam, Christianity or Judaism, the Bahai accepts ALL world religions as 100% legitimate expressions of faith, it incorporates all their holy books in its teaching, and it honours all their prophets.

That is very wise on the part of the Bahais. Were others to show an equal degree of wisdom, there would be no more religious wars.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: GUEST,Abe
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 04:14 PM

They should get together and stand up to the warmongering bully artificial state of Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 04:43 PM

The Ba'hais have been relentlessly persecuted in their State of origin, modern day run-by-the-fundamentalists Iran, since the tyrant Khomeini.

On the other hand, they have important shrines and full religious rights in the nation of Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 04:50 PM

That's true. The Bahais tend to be peaceful people, and they are no threat to either the Israelis or the Iranian regime. The Israelis, being at heart pragmatists, recognize that, and accordingly they leave the Bahais alone. This does not mean that the Israelis, however, leave other people alone when there are strategic gains to be made. Hardly.

If your point is that Israel is somewhat more liberal and less authoritarian a society than Iran, I agree, it is. I still don't agree with Israel's aggressive policies in the Middle East, nor with their totally out of proportion response to the kidnapping of two soldiers (and that's just an excuse for what they wanted to do anyway).

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: dianavan
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 05:20 PM

GUEST - It was the Arabs who brought Islam to Persia. Since I fully understand the Persians do not like Arabs and consider them a separate race, it is you, not I, who can be accused of racism.

"Iran today has wide variety of ethnic groups one of which is Persian. The contemporary 'Persian', as an ethnic group, in Iran mostly refers to those whose native language is the language of the capital city named Tehran. Such ethnic groups like Kurd, Turk, Turkman, Balouch, Gilak, Mazan, even Arab and others who are originally from Iran are also Iranian. However, not all of them are Persian." From:

http://www.easypersian.com/

Furthermore, when the Arabs invaded Persia, they not only brought their faith but also their language. I know that Persian is the official language but...

Whats the matter, GUEST, do you want distance yourself from Arabs because they might have a little too much African blood for your taste? I suppose you like to think of yourself as pure Aryan.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: GUEST,Tony Oakville
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 06:11 PM

It was so sad to see those poor children in hospital beds tonight on the news killed and injured by a crowd of clowns wearing dessert bowls on their heads who moan and cry about what some guy did to them 60 odd years ago. Now Bush tells Blair he wants to slip a few more missiles over to the dessert bowls through Scotland and to turn a blind eye to it. Then to watch Bush sending Popeyes girlfriend Olive Oil over to Rome to give his blessing to the mass murder so that the Jew bankers in the States don't get annoyed. Result we lost one of our countrymen in an attack on the UN observation post. The world now sees the injustice and support for the removal of anyone wearing a dessert bowl on their head from stolen land is growing.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: Peace
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 07:26 PM

Dear Tony Assville: Please tell me you aren't Canadian.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: bobad
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 07:42 PM

There are bigoted assholes in Canada too Peace (as if I have to tell you).

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 08:00 PM

Little Hawk they killed 8 and captured 2 and the old saying if you poke at a grizzly bear with a sharp stick don't be surprised and upset when it bites yer f'ing head off can be applied here.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: Peace
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 08:06 PM

Hey, bobad. Heck, I know there are people like that in Canada. However, his/her use of English is dreadful.

"The world now sees the injustice and support for the removal of anyone wearing a dessert bowl on their head from stolen land is growing."

Jaysus, it would be between 'damned difficult and nearly impossible' to construct a sentence like that on purpose.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: bobad
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 08:10 PM

Yer right about that Peace, besides, eveyone knows Popeye's girlfriend's name is Olive Oyl.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 08:17 PM

Yes, I know they killed 8...in a border skirmish that is one of thousands of incidents in a war that's been waged, off and on, since 1948. The killing of 8 soldiers and the capturing of 2 is no fit justification for the kind of massive operation the Israelis are engaged in right now in Lebanon.

The Israelis are holding thousands of prisoners, and they feel free to kill their enemies anywhere and at any time...using high tech weapons. How does this make them better than the people who kill a few of them?

The killing of 8 soldiers and the capturing of 2 affects, say, 10 or 20 families directly. What Israel is doing affects millions directly. That's why it's out of proportion to the supposed excuse that is used to justify it.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 08:26 PM

what about the 14,000 missiles (sharp sticks) mostly supplied by Iran and Syria stored in Southern Lebanon?

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 08:42 PM

14,000 missiles are an excellent idea when one is fighting someone with total air superiority and armed dominance on land and at sea. Those missiles constitute a feasible means of returning fire, and anyone in a war wants that, don't they? Israel has jets, artillery, tanks, and a navy. Why would you begrudge their opponents the use of missiles? Or is attacking people suddenly and by surprise, with lethal intent, only allowed and approved of if the targets are NOT Israelis (or Americans)?

Well, if you're pushing a certain self-serving propaganda line...yeah! Heh. That's exactly how propaganda works.

"You see, we're good, but they're evil. When we attack them, it's legitimate defence. When they attack us, it's terrorism."

That is the standard propaganda line of America and Israel...and of most of their opponents too!

Whole lotta hypocrisy goin' on out there...

It's a war, guys. In a war, everybody uses whatever weapons they are capable of arming themselves with. That's how it works. I'm sure that if Hezbollah had the means to meet Israel on equal terms, they would. As it is, they must use small arms and missiles. And they will, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: Peace
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 08:43 PM

"The killing of 8 soldiers and the capturing of 2 is no fit justification for the kind of massive operation the Israelis are engaged in right now in Lebanon."

You ever sit beside a kid in school who keeps poking you with a pencil? And he does that day after day? Then ya get tired of it, grab him by the throat and punch his fu#kin' lights out?

The Israelis are in the same position.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: Peace
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 08:52 PM

"Israel has jets, artillery, tanks, and a navy. Why would you begrudge their opponents the use of missiles?"

The Israelis have the weaponry they do for good reason: survival. And no one 'begrudges' Hezbollah the rockets. They have 'em and the Israelis are doing what is in their power to ensure that those rockets are NOT used againt Israeli citizens. They are going to do everything they can to destroy the Hezbollah leadership and materiel before the cease fire is brought about. Period.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 08:57 PM

And so are the people they are fighting, Peace. You would just have to be a kid on the other side of the borderline to appreciate that.

There is no one there whose friends and families have not been hurt in this conflict. When people are hurt, as you pointed out, they eventually hit back. That is why some people fire rockets at Israel. I'm suggesting that Israel has hit back in a disproportionate manner this time, that they are overdoing it. I think a few million people in Lebanon think so too. Will this operation make the future more secure for Israel?

I think not.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: jaze
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 08:57 PM

Paul Burke--thank you

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 09:09 PM

Well, Peace, Hezbollah are obviously going to do everything they can to survive too, aren't they? Everyone uses his weapons for survival as well as for attack. And the people in the Shiite neighbourhoods in Lebanon will support them, because they have helped those people in many ways when no one else would.

You can't divide this thing up into a set of "good guys" on one side, and a set of "bad guys" on the other...but that is what everyone wants to do. It saves actually thinking of the other guy as human, and that makes it easier to justify killing him.

Capiche?

The Israelis are not knights in shining armour who have committed no offence upon their neighbours. They are not flawless martyrs, above reproach. Neither are Hezbollah. Neither is America. Neither are the Iranians.

A reasonable solution will respect the needs and rights of all involved parties, not be dictated by some self-appointed "moral majority" in Tel Aviv or Washington...or Tehran or Damascus.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: number 6
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 09:13 PM

"the kidnapping of two soldiers (and that's just an excuse for what they wanted to do anyway)."

LH ... did ya ever maybe think the Hezbellah (in conjunction with Iran) contrived this to goat the Israeli's in to a total war ... just another idea from the other side of the picture.

"14,000 missiles are an excellent idea when one is fighting someone with total air superiority and armed dominance on land and at sea."

LH .. yup, a lota missiles loaded with ball bearings for maximun destruction ... ever wonder why Israel built up such a strong IDF (Israel Defence Force). A strong IDF, a good idea when you are completly surrounded by people who want to destroy you

Maybe Israel is rapidly trying to push back the Hezbollah forces knowing that the Hezbellah is currently moving rockets with a farther range that can reach Tel Aviv ... remember were these rockets are coming from .... remember the mandate of Iran and the Hezbellah in regards to Israel.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: Peace
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 09:14 PM

That is true. But your anger seems to be reserved for Israel. Save a little for Hezbollah and Hamas too. Capiche!

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 09:16 PM

LH:
WE've been here before. you have your own definition of what constitutes war which doesn't agree with Webster. You also broad brush the combatants here and tend to view all participants as morally equivalent. Most of us are not working off the same basic definitions as you are.

I think it is possible to come up with 'good' guys and 'bad' guys, without requiring the 'good' guys to be 'perfect' guys. I don't know anyone but some of the terrorist sympathizers who think their side is perfect.

What you consistently fail to come up with when you apply your broad brush is what a country enduring constant terror attacks can do other than what Israel is doing.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 09:56 PM

They're all between a rock and a hard place. Israel is. The Lebanese are. Hezbollah is. Hamas is. Iraq is. Iran is.

Matter of fact, the only nation that isn't between a rock and a hard place in truth is the USA. The USA could act as an honest broker in this dispute and get both sides to negotiate...if it had any intention of really doing so...but the USA has consistently treated Israel as "a good guy" and Israel's opponents as monsters, to all intents and purposes.

And that, in a nutshell, is why my anger is mainly reserved for Israel.

I don't like to see a blatantly stacked deck, and I will always instinctively back the weak against the strong, and I will oppose a common prejudice that is taken for granted by most people. That is my nature. Israel and the USA are the strong in this conflict. Those they beat up on with their jets and their high tech weapons are the weak.

And that's why I react the way I do.

Both sides have legitimate concerns, but the side that really angers me is the one that has overwhelming firepower, that can attack and invade anyone it wants to any time it wants to...but acts as "the injured party". That disgusts me. It reminds me of the Nazis. I can't stand bullies.

I also live in a society where people hardly dare to criticize Zionism, for fear of being labelled anti-semitic, but anyone can criticize Arabs without fear, because Arabs are clearly thought of as less than equal, whether or not anyone says it openly.

That's blatant discrimination, it's exactly the same thing AS anti-semitism, but it doesn't merit a special word all its own in the culture, does it? You know why? Because the deck is stacked.

I can't stand that sort of prejudice.

35 years ago I had no ax to grind in this matter. That changed. I don't like a stacked deck, and our media have long stacked the deck when it comes to any dispute between the Muslims and Israel. The Israelis are treated like "us" by the media...the Muslims are treated like "them". I know discrimination when I see it.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: Peace
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 10:04 PM

Thank you. I am glad you do reserve some anger for Hezbollah and Hamas. I have a bit for Israel now, also.

I think Israel should have unilaterally ceased fire--for three days. Hezbollah would likely not have. At that point, Israel could tell the apologists to take a hike and go after their targets with a vengeance. Hard as it is to believe, they are not trying to kill civilians. And hard as it is TO believe, Hezbollah and Hamas are.

Have a nice day.

Subject: RE: BS: Why can't Arab nations unite ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 10:18 PM

A ceasefire sounds like about the best idea I've heard so far.

I don't know whether the USA and Israel are trying to kill civilians or not, but they certainly are killing them, and they're killing more a lot more civilians than Hamas or Hezbollah have.

Modern war does kill civilians. It's been that way ever since the Fascists bombed Guernica...basically ever since the airplane (and its successor, the missile) became capable of bombing cities. The first really effective mass killings of civilians by bombing in fact were, I believe, accomplished by the British and Italians in their colonial wars in Iran and Africa, respectively. Those occurred not long after the First World War.

The nature of modern weapons ensures that many civilians will die, usually many more civilians than armed soldiers. Whether or not Israel wants to kill Lebanese civilians, they will, using the methods they're using.

Yes, Hamas and Hezbollah want to kill Israeli civilians. I know that, and I don't approve of it. Their capacity to do so, however, is quite limited. Israel and America's capacity to ruin an entire nation has been amply demonstrated in recent times in Lebanon and Iraq, and that kills a lot more civilians in the end than the "terrorists" do.

So who is worse? Or who is better? I don't know. I do know who is more lethal. That's been proven a thousand times over by now.