BS: Breast feeding in public

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 04:31 AM

Here's a little aside concerning breasts and Nestle.

Nestle provided baby formula to poverty stricken children in Africa a couple of decades ago. They actively taught and convinced breast feeding mothers that this powder would give their babies a better start than breast milk. The infant mortality rate rocketed from illnesses other than those associated with famine. Why?

Because the formula had to be made with water - a resource that was in damn short supply as it was, and what was available was dirty, contaminated and often stagnant.

Nestle have been reluctant to admit any responsibility in the deaths of bottle fed children from diseases carried by dirty water, even though it was their campaign to promote formula feeding that caused the huge surge in uptake.

Of course, what they should have done was encourage breast feeding and provide a well, decent drinking water and a clinic.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 04:37 AM

As a breast feeding mother at the moment (and it took me quite a while to be able to breast feed successfully) I welcome the new law. I do express and feed by bottle but if I am caught short while out...and feeding on demand you might not have expressed enough milk to bottle feed, I do breast feed, but I do it discreetly. I find a quiet corner, have a shawl or sheet or go to the car. Breast feeding is a wonderful and magical experience, I can't really describe it. I do notice that is mainly men that have a problem with a mother breast feeding in public.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Wolfgang
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 05:59 AM

A song about it? Sure, there's a beauty of a song about breastfeeding in public and all the guys from the village came to watch and brave Margot only thought they came to watch the kitten she nursed.

Brave Margot

by Renaud
album: Chante Brassens (1996)

Margoton la jeune bergère trouvant dans l'herbe un petit chat
Qui venait de perdre sa mère, l'adopta
Elle entrouvre sa collerette et le couche contre son sein
C'était tout c'quelle avait pauvrette comme coussin
Le chat la prenant pour sa mère se mit à téter tout de go
Emue, Margot le laissa faire, brave Margot
Un croquant passant à la ronde, trouvant le tableau peu commun
S'en alla le dire à tout l'monde et le lendemain

Quand Margot dégrafait son corsage pour donner la gougoutte à son chat
Tous les gars, tous les gars du village
Etaient là, la la la la la la, étaient là, la la la la la
Et Margot qu'était simple et très sage
Présumait qu'c'était pour voir son chat
Qu'tous les gars, tous les gars du village
Etaient là, la la la la la la, étaient là, la la la la la

Maître d'école et ses potaches, le maire, le bedeau, le bougnat
Négligeaient carrément leur tâche pour voir ça
Le facteur d'ordinaire si preste, pour voir ça, n'distribuait plus
Les lettres que personne au reste n'aurait lues
Pour voir ça, Dieu le leur pardonne, les enfants de choeur au milieu
Du Saint Sacrifice abandonnent le saint lieu
Les gendarmes, même mes gendarmes qui sont par nature si ballots
Se laissaient toucher par les charmes du joli tableau

Quand Margot dégrafait son corsage pour donner la gougoutte à son chat
Tous les gars, tous les gars du village
Etaient là, la la la la la la, étaient là, la la la la la
Et Margot qu'était simple et très sage
Présumait qu'c'était pour voir son chat
Qu'tous les gars, tous les gars du village
Etaient là, la la la la la la, étaient là, la la la la la

Mais les autres femmes de la commune
Privées d'leurs époux, d'leurs galants
Accumulèrent la rancune patiemment
Puis un jour ivres de colère, elles s'armèrent de bâtons
Et farouches elles immolèrent le chaton
La bergère après bien des larmes, pour s'consoler prit un mari
Et ne dévoila plus ses charmes que pour lui
Le temps passa sur les mémoires, on oublia l'évènement
Seul des vieux racontent encore à leurs p'tits-enfants

Quand Margot dégrafait son corsage pour donner la gougoutte à son chat
Tous les gars, tous les gars du village
Etaient là, la la la la la la, étaient là, la la la la la
Et Margot qu'était simple et très sage
Présumait qu'c'était pour voir son chat
Qu'tous les gars, tous les gars du village
Etaient là, la la la la la la, étaient là, la la la la la
Etaient là la la la la la la la la la.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 06:10 AM

She nursed a kitten????


Now THAT is weird...

(although, given what Raven kitty does with the bow on my nightshirt, it is highly plausible).

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Midchuck
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 09:42 AM

We have a couple of young cats that were part of a litter that were "rescued" as little kittens from a feral mom, and fostered. They are amazingly well socialized - so much so that they're more like dogs than cats. But they show the effects of having been taken away from the mother early on, like they didn't get to nurse enough to really be satisfied.

One sign of this deprivation is that they tend to chew on stuff they shouldn't, like mail or the newspaper if you leave it on the kitchen table. Another sign of it is, if I lie on the bed - on my back, with my arms crossed above my head and my head on my hands, as I often do if I lie down during the day to catch my second wind - and I'm wearing no shirt, or a short-sleeved tee, the male sticks his head in my loathsome, smelly, hairy armpit, looking for a nipple. And sometimes he bites.

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 09:53 AM

Sorcha's youngest breast is 22? How old is the other one?

My Lizzie occasionally cuddles up next me and drools on a cotton blanket until it is wet enough to suckle. Poor little Liz was a feral kitten. It was sad to see her try to join Alice's kittens for lunch but Alice would have none of it. Too bad. It would have improved both their personalities.

Freddie was a year old and bigger than his mother when I finally insisted that the nursing stop. Alice would still be nursing him if she had her way.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Scoville
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 10:56 AM

Our cat nursed her entire life (16 1/2 years). My arms were always scratched up from her sucking on my pajamas at night. When she got old and sick, we knew it was time to go when she couldn't even comfort herself with that any more.

At least she didn't suck on my hair the way my friend's cat did!

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 12:09 PM

"So much for the freedom of speech and opinion.

I brought a viewpoint to the forum for open discussion and the level of insults and lack of intelligent replies says a lot more amount certain individuals here than it does about me."

Bob, you are being a hypocrit and playing martyr. You started this whole discussion by questioning the "morals" of a woman you saw "whip one out" and thought that this represented a "crisis" that "looms" in our society. If this is a crisis, you have not been reading the newspaper.

You need to remember that "freedom of speech" does not mean we all agree with you. If you weren't capable of handling criticism after you set the insulting tone, then you should just shut the hell up. Your opinion and freedom of speech is no different than anyone else. Get off your high horse and join the rest of society.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 12:23 PM

I'd been debating whether to compose that basic reply....thanks, Ron, for doing it for me. 'Bob' made his opinion clear, and had his freedom of speech.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: MMario
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 12:23 PM

technically, "freedom of speech" isn't relative here, anyway. This forum is a *PRIVATELY OWNED* site; and the owner reserves the right to delete, edit, remove, move, modify, etc. anything posted here.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 12:38 PM

Ron and MMario -- Well said!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 12:39 PM

It never occurred to me that Alice's nursing was the beginning of a moral crisis. But she is known as Alice the Slut so maybe Bob is right.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: GUEST,Bagpuss
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 01:25 PM

I have only read half the thread, so apologies if I am repeating anything. I have breastfed many times in public both in England and in Scotland where we have had a law against preventing a woman from breastfeeding for a couple of years already. I can't say that I have noticed any difference. Nobody has ever asked me not to and i have fed in cafes, restaurants, museums, libraries, park benches etc. The worst I have had is the occasional disaproving look - mainly from other women actually. Most of the time, I don't think anyone noticed me doing it - on several occasions people have come up to play with the baby, as they thought he was just being cuddled!

As to the idea that it is fine "in the privacy of your own home" - in the early days, both of my boys fed at 2 hourly intervals. This would have meant that for approximately 2 months I would have been unable to go out anywhere for more than about an hour (given that after they have fed for half an hour you then have to get them ready to go out and change their nappy etc). That is basically akin to imprisonment for no more reason than some people being embarrassed or offended at nothing more than a child getting its nourishment. It is no wonder the breastfeeding rates are so abysmally low in this country if people give up on breastfeeding because they are afraid of disapproval if they do it in public and feel imprisoned if they have to do it in private.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Peace
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 01:51 PM

To hell with the 'moral majority'.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Midchuck
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 01:57 PM

If the "moral majority" are going to be in hell, I may have to repent me of my sins after all, so's I won't go there. I've had enough of them in this life.

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: ShockedandAppalledinReading
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 03:48 PM

*To hell with the 'moral majority'*

the moral majority are neither

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Peace
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 04:46 PM

I'm tryin' to clean up my language. Usually I'd a said f#ck 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 05:20 PM

But if you f#cked 'em, they would no longer be moral.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 05:20 PM

Or is that fodder for another thread?

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: gnu
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 05:25 PM

You gotta fuck to be a fodder.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 05:28 PM

Go sit in the corner, gnu. Ten Our Fathers and Ten Hail Marys.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: gnu
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 05:30 PM

Yes, Sister Mary. I said em. Now can I go?

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Sorcha
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 06:04 PM

LOLOLOL! Just watch out for the Poor Clares, OK?

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 06:31 PM

Quite a lot of these women don't even wear a veil.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Peace
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 10:16 PM

. . . and before too long they'll want the vote, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: bbc
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 10:54 PM

Bob,

I can understand why seeing women with uncovered breasts, unexpectedly, might be uncomfortable to you; it is, somewhat, for me, too. Please don't condemn all nursing moms, however, because of those who are inconsiderate or unconscious in their behavior. I nursed both of my kids whenever they needed it, but I always wore loose tops that I could drape to cover myself & I always had a cloth diaper with me, as well, for the times when my baby might unexpectedly move. No one ever caught more than a glimpse of my breasts & then probably only if they were making a point of looking. Breastfeeding is a completely natural part of the mothering of young children & I think it's ridiculous to consider restricting it to bathrooms. We should all, however, try to be considerate & respect the feelings of others. I hope you do that, too.

best,

bbc

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: maeve
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 11:02 PM

"Are there any songs?"

Yes: Janet Russell's "Breastfeeding Baby in the Park" is one, and Cindy Kallet and John Blodgett's song "I'm a Mammal" as recorded by Kallet, Epstein, and Cicone on Cindy's "Only Human" album. Both are priceless!

maeve

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 11:06 PM

Stilly River Sage -- you are so right --nursing a child is a wonderful experience. When I had my first child at the advanced old age of 32, with absolutely NO experience with babies before that, the ONLY thing that was tolerable to me about the whole being a mother 'thing' was nursing that child. I nursed all three of mine -- they all weaned at their own choice - one at 2 years, one at 9 months and one at 6 months........; I never intended to give offence to anyone, but if that child was hungry I had the ability to quieten that child and it was like a miracle. Breast feeding is one of the most natural acts in the entire world -- if the world had not 'dirtied' the concept of breasts and turned them nto something merely sexual, this whole thread would be unnecessary.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 03:01 AM

Truebrit, I was 33, nearly 34 when I had my first child. 37 with the second. They both weaned at about 2 1/2 years. (The last year or 18 months was mostly bedtime, nap, and first thing in the morning, it wasn't like it was their sole nutrition.) Weaning was easy. I usually read a book at night and they nursed, so when we were ready to quit Dad read the book at night. They didn't miss a thing because there was no expectation to nurse when Dad read.

Funny story, though. When the second child was born the first was 3 1/2. She's forgotten all about nursing, but was curious. She asked one day if she could nurse, so I sat down in the rocker and opened my shirt. She climbed up in my lap and then tried to figure out how to do it, pursing her lips but not knowing the suck any more. It was pretty funny for both of us! I offered to express a little into a cup that comes with the cough syrup, and she said that would be good. She took a taste and ran away. I asked what she'd done and she told me "I spit it out!" I think she asked one more time, about six months later, and that was that.

;-D

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 04:50 AM

When I was stationed in Berlin in 1972-73, it seemed that Berliners were offended by pregnancy and nursing. My ex and I were on a bus one time about two months before my son was born. For no apparent reason, an old woman called my very pregnant wife "eine Hexe" (a witch). All we could guess is that the woman was offended by seeing a pregnant woman in public.
I do feel guilty about changing my son's diaper in a booth at a Wimpy's restaurant in Bremerhaven. When I got the diaper off, my son sprayed - right on the people in the next booth. The people didn't say anything, and I didn't realize until later that they had been hit.

As for nursing babies in public, I see it quite often - but I rarely see a breast in the process. Women here in liberal California may go topless at the beach, but they're quite discreet about covering up when they're nursing.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 03:53 PM

My girlfriend had a similar story -- her child was nearly two when the second one came and had been weaned for about 6 months. Seeing the baby nurse, she asked if she could -- my friend said sure. The child nursed for about 30 seconds then said, ugh, it's WARM and never asked again

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Desdemona
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 05:18 PM

As Richard Thompson so eloquently put it:

"That's what they're there for,
That's what they're there for,
Who are we to ask the why or wherefor?"

But seriously, I find this a particularly ludicrous "controversy," especially in a nation that annually spends some shocking number of billions on pornography (too lazy to look up exact #s, but you get my drift). When a baby is hungry it needs to be fed; simple. A modicum of ordinary discretion should ensure that interfering busybodies with nothing better to bitch about won't be affronted by the sight of a breast in the performance of its natural function, as opposed to being squeezed out of a push-up bra for the purpose of, er, titillation!

~D

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 05:27 PM

Well, I would disagree...I think that there are multiple functions involved, which is exactly why people are so uncomfortable. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Rog Peek
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 06:13 PM

mg - ".........multiple functions." Just how many did you have in mind?

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 07:28 PM

I can think of five or six just like that...but I am not going to list them here. Or elsewhere. Think in terms of evolution. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Sorcha
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 08:56 PM

Evolution...food, food, uh, food, uh, sex related to food, food again....

Then ...OH DEAR...SEX! Hey, fellas, if we suck on these things......

Well, F**K me.

I had to wean our daughter when she was 11 mos. I cried. So did she. It was a medical thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Peace
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 09:08 PM

???????????????????

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Sorcha
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 10:13 PM

OH DEAR GODS! It's a NAKED BABY eating it's din din!!! PORN ALERT!

Good one, Peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 11:49 PM

When Moonglow was tiny nursing took a long time. I set myself up with a tankard of water (talk about thirsty work!) and a book to read. I knew it was time to wean her when, at about 2 1/2, she climbed up into my lap to nurse and SHE had a book to read!

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 06:54 AM

Is there going to be an age limit put on the child being breast fed in public. There are some women who feed to school age?

Presumably it will be only young babies and common sense will prevail that in public a toddler can use a cup.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: GUEST,Bob
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 08:48 AM

No there won't be an age limit put on breast feeding. Just an age limit put on posting among this pack of old cronies who seem to know everything. You could export smart arses from here, bores in abundance.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: bbc
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 09:25 AM

Bob,

I notice you choose to ignore the more moderate responses to your posts.

best,

bbc

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Sorcha
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 09:59 AM

Ref. the picture linked to above...it LOOKS wonderful, but what goes in must come out. Me, I'd never nurse a naked baby.

THAT would be gross.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: GUEST,Bob
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 11:18 AM

bcc, I respect your remark.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 12:27 PM

When they're toddlers they get pretty much all of their nutrition from the food they eat. Nursing is relegated to those times when they're settling down to sleep or maybe when they first get up in the morning. This is where Mom's immune system is still protecting the child, she isn't offering much to the caloric intake. No one I know would have considered nursing a toddler in public unless it was an extreme situation (like nursing on an airplane take-off and landing to keep the ears from popping and thus preventing screaming and disturbing everyone in earshot). They're more interested in regular food than nursing once they get old enough to eat, but the nursing is an elemental thing that they gradually outgrow ("child led weaning").

Personally, I think those women who keep it going beyond the toddler stage, until the child is in school and beyond, have some of their own problems they need to deal with.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: bbc
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 12:45 PM

Thanks, Bob.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 08:18 PM

That photo of the nursing babe that Peace linked is a beautiful, serene shot. However, I too wondered about ending up with a wet lap.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 08:29 PM

"Just an age limit put on posting among this pack of old cronies who seem to know everything. You could export smart arses from here, bores in abundance."

Comeon Bob, you are being too hard on yourself. Next time you will know better than be such a smart ass. Take the meds, a nap and you won't be such a bore.

Face it, you got what you were wishing for. Don't be such a sorry sack. You are far from offended. You knew that there would be people that disagree with you and you clouded your opening statement to make it so. You give the definition to the word "geezer".

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: stallion
Date: 18 Jun 07 - 10:12 AM

I suppose it is an "Eye of the beholder" thing. there are some truly wonderous sights and the serenity and Joy of a nursing mother a babe is one of them, it is such a beautiful thing and I was, I suppose, a tad envious that I was excluded from that particular activity with our three kids. If I ever see it happening I get a warm rosy yummy feeling, it seems the most natural thing in the world, and most, if not all, mothers are discreet enough that one would have to stare pretty hard to get a glimpse of any "busty substances" so who would want to do that. The world has moved on ( well that old puritan / victorian world) and mums can now incorporate breast feeding in their daily lives without hiding away and why shouldn't they.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Jun 07 - 10:38 AM

I think it's a bit hard blaming the Victorians for weird hang-ups about this that are much more characteristic of the 20th Century.