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BS: Justice for the Gurkhas/Bravest of the Brave
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Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave From: eddie1 Date: 27 Jun 08 - 10:02 AM "The Bravest of the Brave, The Most Generous of the Generous, Never Had a Country More Faithful Friends Than You!" These are the words inscribed on the Gurkha War Memorial in Whitehall. On Tuesday I, along with some 100 members of the Gurkha community from in and around Reading (UK), was at a meeting of Reading Borough Council who unanimously passed a resolution asking the Government to grant retired Gurkhas the same rights as Commonwealth soldiers. This means the right to live in the UK, the same pension and access to benefits and health care. The Gurkhas have served this country for over 200 years, taking an oath of allegiance to The Queen and this country. They have won 13 Victoria Crosses and more than 6,500 other decorations and battle honours. After a lot of pressure, last year the Government extended these rights to members of The Brigade of Gurkhas who retired after 1st July 1997. Why that date? because up to then the Brigade HQ was in Hong Kong and was then moved to England. Not that the move made any difference to Gurkhas serving in the field! Those who retired prior to that date receive a pension of about £100 - £125 per month. A Gurkha couple in Reading live in a 2-room flat, the rent paid by their son who is serving in the British Army. They had to buy crutches and a wheelchair for the wife who had a leg removed as the result of cancer because she doesn't qualify for help under the NHS. They pay £2 bus fare per day for their daughter to go to school as she doesn't qualify for a bus pass. They get by with the help of street charities and The Royal British Legion. A group of five retired Gurkhas live together in one room which is all they can afford. They and the couple mentioned earlier have been waiting about two years for a decision on whether they can remain in this country! Last year, an 82 year-old holder of the VC who was blind and suffered from diabetes, both conditions being brought on by his 20-years military service, was refused admission to the UK because it was not felt that "his ties to this country were not strong enough"!!!!! After a petition attracted thousands of signatures he was allowed admission and now lives in an old folks' home with his only income being his £125 monthly pension! Reading Council is sending a copy of the resolution to every Local Authority in the UK with the hopes that more will try to bring pressure on the Government to help a group to which this country owes so much, a group which, as illness and old age take their toll, gets smaller and smaller. I am not trying to glorify war – far from it, but the Gurkhas were there when we needed them. For UK Catters, if you hear of any action being taken in your area, please support it. If not, ask why not! I was doing some interviews for Community Radio and was presented with a silk scarf, called a Khada, as a token of their gratitude for my support. I never quite understood what "feeling humble" meant until then. Eddie
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave From: alanabit Date: 27 Jun 08 - 10:25 AM If you know of an online petition, please let us know. I am certainly not the only one here, who agrees with you 100%. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave From: eddie1 Date: 27 Jun 08 - 10:38 AM Thanks for that alanabit. There is a petition at http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Gurkha-soldiers/ Calling on the Government to grant British citizenship to retired Gurkhas. It's not everything but it's a start. It already has 25,000 signatures Eddie |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave From: Teribus Date: 28 Jun 08 - 05:58 AM Very well said Eddie1, I had the honour to serve alongside the Gurkhas in the Far East and have the greatest respect for them. Undoubtedly among the best in the world. I agree 100% with you and have always supported the campaign for equal pay, rights and privileges for Gurkha troops and their families. They wear, and have worn, the uniform of the Queen in the service of this country, to welcome them wholeheartedly to our country is the least that we can do to show our gratitude and appreciation. To do otherwise is to demonstrate a meanness of spirit that beggars description. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave From: Liz the Squeak Date: 28 Jun 08 - 06:15 AM I've never served in any armed force (except the Brownies and they frowned on actual weaponry), but I researched many war stories when I worked in a military museum, many about the Gurkha exploits. As Teribus says, it's the very least we can do. LTS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave From: Lox Date: 28 Jun 08 - 07:25 AM With you all the way. Just as any Ghurka would be. No Ghurka friend or ally would ever let you down The Ghurkas have never let Britain down. Yet Britain is letting them down. Words cannot express how revolting this betrayal is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave From: alanabit Date: 28 Jun 08 - 08:26 AM Thanks eddie 1. There will soon be 25,001 signatures on that petition. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave From: gnu Date: 28 Jun 08 - 12:39 PM Already is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Jun 08 - 03:06 PM They are extraordinary warriors without a doubt, and they should be fully honored and rewarded for their past services to the British Empire. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave From: Teribus Date: 28 Jun 08 - 05:39 PM For their past and present services LH. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Jun 08 - 07:02 PM Righto. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave From: Zen Date: 28 Jun 08 - 07:21 PM I'm not a military type but will support this petition too. Zen |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave From: Zen Date: 28 Jun 08 - 07:26 PM 25003 at least now. Here's a blue clicky Ex-Gurkha Soldiers Petition Zen |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave From: Peace Date: 29 Jun 08 - 03:53 PM Eddie, I went to sign the petition but they accept only 'signatures' from folks in the UK. Good on you, though. |
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Subject: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: Jean(eanjay) Date: 16 Sep 08 - 09:10 AM Why do we all in the UK have to put up with the likes of Abu Hamza but the Gurkhas are having to fight for the right to retire here? My father was in the British army and he had such respect for the Gurkhas; they were brilliant. We owe them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: Rapparee Date: 16 Sep 08 - 09:11 AM I dunno. Why? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: Jean(eanjay) Date: 16 Sep 08 - 09:21 AM Tony Blair should have resolved this issue so he goes even further down (a bit like the FTSE) in my estimation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: Liz the Squeak Date: 16 Sep 08 - 09:56 AM There was a thread earlier this year with a link to a petition. I suspect the closing date has long gone, but basically it was petitioning the government to give proper equal pension rights and the right to live in the UK to members and former members of the Gurkha Regiment. Look up Gurkha Rights on Google and see what they don't get. LTS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: Jean(eanjay) Date: 16 Sep 08 - 10:12 AM Liz, thanks for that. I missed that thread at the time and when I searched before starting this thread I couldn't find anything. I've googled it and managed to find a site where I got a message from McAfee saying that they had blocked a Trojan! There doesn't seem to be much. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: Jean(eanjay) Date: 16 Sep 08 - 10:19 AM I've managed to find the Tony Blair murderer petiton thread though! Since I've got a down on him at the moment I thought I'd just pop in a link :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: bubblyrat Date: 16 Sep 08 - 10:20 AM As an ex-serviceman, I am naturally biased in favour of the Gurkhas, for whom I have great admiration and respect. They put the fear of God up the Argentinian soldiers during the Falklands War (apparently), and I'm not surprised---their reputation as fighters,especially at close quarters,is legendary. They should all get the same rights as anyone else who has fought for this country , irrespective of when they left the army---Tony Blair is a miserable ,penny-pinching twat,and should be exiled forever. The Gurkhas are far more deserving of our gratitude, in the form of full British citizenship,than 99 percent of the dross we have to put up with in our Labour Party- inspired role as Rectum Mundi. So there !! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: Jean(eanjay) Date: 16 Sep 08 - 10:34 AM their reputation as fighters,especially at close quarters,is legendary Not only brilliant fighters but very loyal as well. Love your post bubblyrat. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: Liz the Squeak Date: 16 Sep 08 - 10:49 AM I've never served in any military capacity (except as a Brownie, but that's another story) but I worked in a Military Museum for a while. The stories set out in the Regimental Diaries from soldiers who served with Gurkha soldiers defy all descriptions and are far more chilling than any modern day thriller story. A Brigadier of the Dorset Regiment once confided to myself and my colleagues that he'd rather have a squad of Gurkhas than a whole battalion of regular Army personnel. He was fortunate enough to command one of the Gurkha battalions during WWII and owed his very life to their bravery and skill. LTS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: Jean(eanjay) Date: 16 Sep 08 - 11:01 AM Tribute to the Gurkhas |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave From: eddie1 Date: 16 Sep 08 - 12:05 PM I see another thread has appeared re today's activities and someone was looking for this thread - perhaps they can be amalgamated if a friendly elf is nearby. Don't know if the petition is still up. Eddie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: GUEST,Catch away, O Date: 16 Sep 08 - 02:27 PM Just as a matter of interest, and considering that both Sikhs and Gurkhas (and Scots and Irish, but that's another story) were allowed or encouraged to serve in the armies of the British State and Empire, why wasn't there any similar attempt to get the Zulus roped in as well? Had policy changed between the 1840s and the 1880s, or did they defeat the Brits just TOO convincingly at Isandhlwana? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: GUEST,lox Date: 16 Sep 08 - 03:21 PM Thanks for dedicating your liives, risking them and even in some cases losing them for us ... ... Thanks for the sacrifice of your Husband/Father ... ... here's some pocket money so you can buy some sweets ... (not very many mind) ... ... we meant in Nepal ... not here ... ... thanks then ... bye ... It is criminal. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: skipy Date: 16 Sep 08 - 03:30 PM It's more than just criminal! it's ********* ****** **** ********* **** to say the least. However there is a way around it, they only need to get a ferry to France & come back in or under a wagon & Hey! presto they can have anything they want & more! Skipy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: beardedbruce Date: 16 Sep 08 - 03:56 PM Agreed, Lox. But the US has no room to make any comment- Look at the First Nation men who fought for the US in WW II, and how we have treated their peoples. Sonnet 27/09/04 On the Opening of NMAI CMXXXIII I listen to the songs of life, as told By dark-eyed beauties, hair the color of True wisdom: Quiet words that power hold To speak of family, work; hopes, tears, and love. I see the flash of fire in eyes, that tell Of old injustice, but a smile for all. What have we done, to past redeem, or spell Out what we owe for what greed let befall? I feel the beat of drums: Power to move Both feet and hearts. What will the future show? How can this nation honest fairness prove Unless we make amends for what we know? We have no reason, now, to debt deny: How will our conscience to this call reply? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: Jean(eanjay) Date: 16 Sep 08 - 04:16 PM I see from this thread that you wrote that sonnet. I love it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: beardedbruce Date: 16 Sep 08 - 04:52 PM Thanks!. I just wish we (the US) did something to acknowledge First Nation contributions , given how we ( the US) have treated them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: eddie1 Date: 16 Sep 08 - 05:17 PM The petition is still on-line here http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Gurkha-soldiers/ Unfortunately only British citizens/residents can sign. Eddie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: Jean(eanjay) Date: 16 Sep 08 - 05:26 PM eddie 1, Thanks for that link. I've just signed. I'll check tomorrow to make sure my name has been added to the list. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: GUEST,lox Date: 16 Sep 08 - 05:51 PM BB, I assume by first nation you mean what I have referred to as Native American. I knew of the "comanche code" in the pacific during the war against the Japanese, (I think it was Comanche anyway - correct me if it wasn't) and I've seen a programme about a guy who went back to france to see if he could find some diamonds he and his Sioux (I think) friend buried in a forest during WWII. The story and the partnership with the friend (who was killed) clearly meant more to the guy than the diamonds ever could, but they represented proof of an adventure they had shared alone. I'll try to find a link. But beyond that my knowledge of the "first Nation" contribution is non existent. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: GUEST,lox Date: 16 Sep 08 - 06:00 PM Looks like there's a book here Sorry folks ... I'm done hijacking ... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: GUEST,Elliot Lurie Date: 16 Sep 08 - 06:04 PM No, they have neither right or reason to remain in the UK. They amount to nothing more than paid migrant workers. I am sick of hearing we owe a special debt to soldiers. They are not out in the Middle East acting on my behalf. A soldier accepts the terms and conditions that come with the job, this includes being shot at. We have enough nationalities weighting our little isle down without these Gurkhas adding to it. We are at last seeing the UK government deal with migrant worker numbers, please don't add to it. XOX EL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: artbrooks Date: 16 Sep 08 - 06:05 PM As US citizens and soldiers, members of any of the Indian Nations who served in any branch of the US military are entitled to all of the benefits of any non-Indian who served at the same time. Lox, the most well known group of "Indian Code Talkers" were Navaho...as an Army veteran, my own read on why they are the best known is that they were in the Marine Corps, and everyone knows that every Marine squad has its own PR agent. (BG) There were a number of other nations whose members participated in this program, which basically involved using native languages (which no member of the Axis could understand) to communicate by radio. For us non-Brits, could someone summarize the Gurkha issue (or provide a link to an unbiased summary)? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: irishenglish Date: 16 Sep 08 - 06:08 PM Yes lox, the codes was one area they were famous for. The other was Ira Hayes, also the subject of a movie. Beware the trolls |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: GUEST,lox Date: 16 Sep 08 - 06:22 PM The Ghurkas, from Nepal, are a regiment within the British Army who have been relied on for their unrivalled bravery and loyalty for more years than need to be accurately specified. They receive less in pensions than "regular" British Soldiers and do not have right of residency in The UK, just the right to die for the crown. So sad |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: GUEST,lox Date: 16 Sep 08 - 06:28 PM Art, Thanks - I guessed I had remembered wrong but carried on anyway with my disclaimer to protect me ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: artbrooks Date: 16 Sep 08 - 06:57 PM The USA has its own sad history of poor treatment of colonial soldiers. There were a lot of Filipinos in the US Army during WW-2, and many of them ended up in POW camps. They are eligible for US veterans benefits but, except for the Philippine Scouts and those who were in the "regular" military, Filipino veterans living in the Philippines are paid exactly half of the amount paid to other vets. They have no emigration or citizenship preference. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: GUEST,lox Date: 16 Sep 08 - 07:07 PM I can see the similarity art, but if I may enquire, I am curious about what could be perceived as a possible key difference: Did those Filipinos fight solely in WWII in the south pacific or is there a permanent Filipino regiment in the US army? The Ghurkas have gone everywhere from Afghanistan and Iraq to the Falkland Islands in their 200 year history with the British army. They don't serve to protect their own homeland but have unqualified allegiance to the UK. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: artbrooks Date: 16 Sep 08 - 07:16 PM That is the key difference, Lox - and I'd say that there are rarely exact correspondences between nations. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: Sorcha Date: 16 Sep 08 - 07:34 PM Somebody needs to start a 'war'. Maybe that Nick Cleg can. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: Rumncoke Date: 16 Sep 08 - 09:51 PM After WWII there were men repatriated to Hong Kong after serving in the British merchant fleet on convoy duties. They had been recruited from various British shipping lines, mostly sailing from Liverpool. They were, in some cases, married and had children here, but there were no exceptions. The British government has a long tradition of betrayals - the treatment of former Commonwealth Citisens is similar. Those who moved to Britain, or arrived as children when their parents were invited to come and work in our factories, lost their right to live here if their countries were granted independance. Anne |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave From: Penny S. Date: 17 Sep 08 - 02:29 AM The petition is open until the 26th. Penny |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave From: Backwoodsman Date: 17 Sep 08 - 02:55 AM Tou forgot the November, Penny! 26th NOVEMBER, 2008. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave From: Backwoodsman Date: 17 Sep 08 - 02:56 AM You! Dyslexic fingers! D'oh. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Bravest of the Brave From: open mike Date: 17 Sep 08 - 03:57 AM who and where is gurka? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Justice for the Gurkhas From: open mike Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:04 AM the video on you tube explains that they are from Nepal. |
