BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made

Subject: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 10:56 AM

The science is now all-but-settled on global warming, convincing new evidence demonstrates, but Al Gore, the IPCC and other global warming doomsayers won't be celebrating. The new findings point to cosmic rays and the sun — not human activities — as the dominant controller of climate on Earth.

The research, published with little fanfare this week in the prestigious journal Nature, comes from über-prestigious CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research, one of the world's largest centres for scientific research involving 60 countries and 8,000 scientists at more than 600 universities and national laboratories. CERN is the organization that invented the World Wide Web, that built the multi-billion dollar Large Hadron Collider, and that has now built a pristinely clean stainless steel chamber that precisely recreated the Earth's atmosphere.

In this chamber, 63 CERN scientists from 17 European and American institutes have done what global warming doomsayers said could never be done — demonstrate that cosmic rays promote the formation of molecules that in Earth's atmosphere can grow and seed clouds, the cloudier and thus cooler it will be. Because the sun's magnetic field controls how many cosmic rays reach Earth's atmosphere (the stronger the sun's magnetic field, the more it shields Earth from incoming cosmic rays from space), the sun determines the temperature on Earth.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100102296/sun-causes-climate-change-shock/

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 11:01 AM

"We and others have documented the manipulated and edited data used by Britain's Climate Research Unit to "hide the decline" in global temperature, and fraudulent assessments by the U.N.'s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change with conclusions based on single-source anecdotes from obscure journals. They all have been well-funded.

No one has made more money from climate change hype than Gore. According to the U.K.'s Guardian newspaper, just one of the "green" companies in which Gore has invested has received over half a billion dollars in subsidies from the Energy Department."



http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/583159/201108291855/Perry-Vs-Gore.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: Jack Campin
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 11:02 AM

I can't find anything on CERN's site that relates to this and I am not about to trust the Telegraph's spin on it.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: pdq
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 11:10 AM

When you talk about Al Gore and "green", you are talking about "long green", aka "money".

Check this out...

                        
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/11/09/collapse-chicago-climate-exchange-means-strategy-shift-global-warming-curbs/

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 11:14 AM

"NASA satellite data from the years 2000 through 2011 show the Earth's atmosphere is allowing far more heat to be released into space than alarmist computer models have predicted, reports a new study in the peer-reviewed science journal Remote Sensing. The study indicates far less future global warming will occur than United Nations computer models have predicted, and supports prior studies indicating increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide trap far less heat than alarmists have claimed.

Study co-author Dr. Roy Spencer, a principal research scientist at the University of Alabama in Huntsville and U.S. Science Team Leader for the Advanced Microwave Scanning Radiometer flying on NASA's Aqua satellite, reports that real-world data from NASA's Terra satellite contradict multiple assumptions fed into alarmist computer models.
"

http://news.yahoo.com/nasa-data-blow-gaping-hold-global-warming-alarmism-192334971.html

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 11:16 AM

If you bother to read the article, instead of blowing it off:

"So if it's so great, why aren't we hearing more about it? Well, possibly because the Director General of CERN Rolf-Dieter Heuer would prefer it that way. Here's how he poured cold water on the results in an interview with Die Welt Online:

I have asked the colleagues to present the results clearly, but not to interpret them. That would go immediately into the highly political arena of the climate change debate. One has to make clear that cosmic radiation is only one of many parameters.

Nigel Calder, who has been following the CLOUD experiment for some time, was the first to smell a rat. He notes:

CERN has joined a long line of lesser institutions obliged to remain politically correct about the man-made global warming hypothesis. It's OK to enter "the highly political arena of the climate change debate" provided your results endorse man-made warming, but not if they support Svensmark's heresy that the Sun alters the climate by influencing the cosmic ray influx and cloud formation.

and

The once illustrious CERN laboratory ceases to be a truly scientific institute when its Director General forbids its physicists and visiting experimenters to draw the obvious scientific conclusions from their results

Lubos Motl, too, detects some double standards here:

One could perhaps understand if all scientists were similarly gagged and prevented from interpreting the results of their research in ways that could be relevant for policymaking. However, the main problem is that many people who are trying to work on very different phenomena in the climate are not prevented from interpreting – and indeed, overinterpreting and misinterpreting – their results that are often less serious, less reliable, and less rigorous, perhaps by orders of magnitude, than the observations by the European Organization for Nuclear Research.

Moreover, this sentence by Heuer

One has to make clear that cosmic radiation is only one of many parameters.is really a proof of his prejudice. Whether the cosmic radiation is just one player or the only relevant player or an important player or an unimportant player is something that this very research has been supposed to determine or help to determine. An official doesn't have the moral right to predetermine in advance what "one has to make clear" about these a priori unknown scientific results.

"

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 11:18 AM

Jack,

WHY don't you check the REFERENCE?????


"The research, published with little fanfare this week in the prestigious journal Nature,"


Or is the possibility thet you have been lied to ( to make Gore et al rich), and spread those lies, too much for you to imagine??????

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 11:21 AM

Oh right... an article written by James Delingpole

"James Delingpole is a writer, journalist and broadcaster who is right about everything. He is the author of numerous fantastically entertaining books including 365 Ways to Drive a Liberal Crazy, Welcome To Obamaland: I've Seen Your Future And It Doesn't Work, How To Be Right, and the Coward series of WWII adventure novels. "

...where he castigates CERN for NOT drawing 'obvious' conclusions from one line of data. He quotes the Director as saying:

"I have asked the colleagues to present the results clearly, but not to interpret them. That would go immediately into the highly political arena of the climate change debate. One has to make clear that cosmic radiation is only one of many parameters."

...   then he turns THAT into a refusal to make the leap into the political arena based on some sort of cowardice.

All the 'science' shows in that solar activity and cosmic rays can, under certain conditions, add to the proclivity for warming.

...But, since Delingpole "is right about everything." It MUST be true that this attempt to "drive liberals crazy" is right on target.

Quick, lets buy stock in wildlife sanctuaries in Alaska and tar sands in Canada, as we now know that more burning carbon won't make any difference~!

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 11:23 AM

By the way... the thread title is a complete distortion of what CERN said. They did NOT make the conclusion you assert.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 11:24 AM

...and I did read the article.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: pdq
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 11:28 AM

Typical close-minded knee-jerk response: trash the author.

I have a batchelors degree and 9 units toward a masters in "hard" science.

Many friends are also in science and they all recognize the Global Warming scare as junk science. It's an attempt at a multi-trillion dollar shakedown.

Albert A-hole Gore made ove 1/2 a billion dollars himself. See my link about the Carbon Credit collapse.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: Jack Campin
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 11:30 AM

WHY don't you check the REFERENCE?????
"The research, published with little fanfare this week in the prestigious journal Nature,"

Nature is pay to view and I don't have a subscription.

CERN, as a publicly funded institution, makes its stuff available free.

One has to make clear that cosmic radiation is only one of many parameters.

Sounds fair enough, and exactlty the sort of thing far-right journos are paid to ignore. Who has ever denied there are also non-anthropogenic factors involved in climate variation? (Volcanic eruptions, Mihailovic oscillations, there are lots of them which have been known for decades). The issue is which factors matter most in practical terms and whether we need to do something about them. By now there is no dispute about that among any climate scientists with a clue.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 11:31 AM

BillD,

What was that logical flaw you talked about, where one attacks the person making a claim rather than attacking the facts that are presented???


"Philosopher, heal thyself."

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 11:32 AM

The author trashes himself with that cutesy statement about 'always being right' and having a mission to drive liberals crazy. Let's see what the experts (other than PDQ's 'friends') say in coming weeks.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 11:36 AM

BillD,

"The author trashes himself with that cutesy statement about 'always being right' "

So, YOU admit that Gore et al are wrong? THEY insist that they are always right, don't they???

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 11:37 AM

Bruce, old bean.... read my reply to pdq. If a liberal **journalist** told you that HE was "always right", I can imagine your response. CERN said what CERN was supposed to say... that they had some data on one issue. Your conservative author is saying that they should have drawn more conclusions from it.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 11:39 AM

A previous post of mine was lost/.removed:

"Study co-author Dr. Roy Spencer, a principal research scientist at the University of Alabama in Huntsville and U.S. Science Team Leader for the Advanced Microwave Scanning Radiometer flying on NASA's Aqua satellite, reports that real-world data from NASA's Terra satellite contradict multiple assumptions fed into alarmist computer models.
"

THE MODEL THAT GORE IS USING HAS BEEN PROVEN WRONG.


BillD:

"real-world data from NASA's Terra satellite contradict multiple assumptions fed into alarmist computer models"

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 11:39 AM

No Bruce... Gore et al say that available science indicates that there is a problem. They do **NOT** generalize to assertions about themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 11:41 AM

BillD,

YOUR liberal politician is saying that we should have drawn conclusions that he desires from bad models to make him more money.


AND YOU JUSTIFY IT..

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 11:51 AM

Sorry...but that "make him more money" bit is your interpretation. The way your shrill jibe reads, Gore has no other agenda than to make money on false science. I have followed Gore's scientific articles for 16 years, and I see only attempts to find out what is happening and report it as accurately as possible.

Wanta discuss Sarah Palin's $$reasons$$ for pretending to run for office? No? ....right

Bad models? We will check that...that can be tested.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 11:58 AM

BillD,

The effect of the GW political scare is to put money into the hands of Gore et al, and to both drive up food prices for the majority of the world AND keep most people under-developed and under the control of certain groups. Now that Gore has HIS mansion, SUV, and jet, he is working to ensure that others do not get what he has.

Please do check some facts- and stop attacking anyone who brings up contrary information to what supports what YOU support: TRY to see what the facts presented mean.

When the GW "pushers" look at the data that contradicts them, instead of attacking those who present it, and try to either explain how THEIR theory deals with it, or modify the theory to account for real-world facts, THEN they can claim to be using science.


I have not seen this up to this time.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 12:19 PM

"...he is working to ensure that others do not get what he has."

That does not deserve a serious response.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: pdq
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 12:28 PM

"Under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket..." ~   Barack Obama, 2008

He is now systematically attacking coal powered electricity generation plants through the EPA and demanding they retrofit all plants with billion dollar pollution controls. Most will simply shut down. Great for our sick economy, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 12:33 PM

You want to document exactly what you claim 'he' is doing, pdq? Or is this just a synopsis of something you heard on Fox?

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 12:41 PM

Bruce, this is a really really simple issue. Show us a statement from CERN mentioning "global warming" and saying that it is not man made, or once again show yourself to be a fabricator.

If becomes very very tedious seeing this process unfold, hundreds of data points that there is climate change. Humanity doing hundreds of things to increase it, such as deforestation, burning fossil carbon, turning our pastureland into methane factories, and then for each new data point showing that there are other factors, which, incidentally, is considered a given in the scientific community. Assholes stand up and crow about "proof" that "global warming" which is not a phenomena the scientists are claiming to exist, does not exist.

I guess, it is convenient and fun to bash Al Gore. But surely you realize that his is not the source of the data. He is simply repeating the findings of others. Others who are too busy doing real scientific work to defend themselves from your bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: pdq
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 12:42 PM

Utility giant AEP says it will close five coal plants to comply with EPA regs

By Andrew Restuccia - 06/09/11 03:55 PM ET

Utility giant American Electric Power said Thursday that it will shut down five coal-fired power plants and spend billions of dollars to comply with a series of pending Environmental Protection Agency regulations.

The company's dramatic plan to comply with the regulations could give Republicans and moderate Democrats ammunition in their ongoing fight against EPA's efforts to impose new regulations aimed at limiting greenhouse gas emissions and air pollutants including mercury and arsenic.

Rep. Shelley Moore Capito (R-W.Va.) and Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) immediately pounced on AEP's announcement.

"This is a perfect example of the EPA implementing rules and regulations without considering the devastating impact they may have on local economies and jobs," Capito said.

Capito said she will write a letter to EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson asking whether the agency took into account the economic impact of its regulations.

"Let me be clear, it's decisions like the one made by AEP today that demonstrate the urgent need to rein in government agencies like the EPA, preventing them from overstepping their bounds and imposing regulations that not only cost us good American jobs, but hurt our economy," said Manchin, an outspoken critic of the EPA.

But EPA defended its regulations Thursday, noting that the agency has worked closely with industry to ensure that its regulations are "reasonable, common-sense and achievable."

The agency also stressed that the regulations are essential for protecting public health.

"These reasonable steps taken under the Clean Air Act will reduce harmful air pollution, including mercury, arsenic and other toxic pollution, and as a result protect our families, particularly children," EPA said in a statement.

In a statement outlining its plan to comply with EPA's regulations, AEP said it would need to retire 6,000 megawatts of coal-fired power generation in the coming years.

The company, one of the country's largest electric utilities, estimated that it will cost between $6 billion and $8 billion in capital investments over the next decade to comply with the regulations in their current form.

The costs of complying with the regulations will result in an increase in electricity prices of 10 to 35 percent and cost 600 jobs, AEP said.

In total, AEP estimated it will have to close five coal-fired power plants by the end of 2014. Six additional plants would see major changes, including retiring some generating units, retrofitting equipment and switching to natural gas.

"We support regulations that achieve long-term environmental benefits while protecting customers, the economy and the reliability of the electric grid, but the cumulative impacts of the EPA's current regulatory path have been vastly underestimated, particularly in Midwest states dependent on coal to fuel their economies," AEP CEO Michael Morris said in a statement.

The company said its compliance plan could "change significantly" if EPA's regulations are altered.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: Stringsinger
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 12:47 PM

First of all, I have an immediate mistrust of anyone who claims James Delingpole to be right about everything.

I smell a financial rat in the CERN, today scientists can be bought, propaganda can gain official status and this piece seems like a propaganda vehicle for the energy industry in the guise of objective science. The tone of the article belies its objectivity, a puff piece intended to keep the controversy over global warming in moth balls.

Remember that the Catholic Church reviled Galileo and I see this piece as similar.

The proof of the pudding is yet to be felt as the energy industry dictates policy and more Katrinas, Irenes and the desertification of the world emerges.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 12:50 PM

JtS,

Show me some PROOF that MANMADE global warming is the cause of climate change, or show yourself to be a liar and asshole.

PROOF, not just a consensus among those that agree with you.

THAT MEANS factual points- NOT political statements.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: Stringsinger
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 12:53 PM

PDQ, you think the energy industry didn't make any money by trashing global warming?
Wait until the Keystone XL pipeline comes in and more explosions occur in the deep water oil drilling rigs.

We are in for some hard sledding in the environment because of the sell-out by some members of the scientific community who will compromise their findings for money.

Forget the EPA. It has been bought and sold.

Global warming deniers will pay the price in the future as storms get worse, land becomes parched through draught and extremes in the weather will wreak more havoc.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 01:05 PM

We are in for some hard sledding in the world because of the sell-out by some members of the scientific community who will compromise their findings for money.

Forget the EPA. It has been bought and sold.

Global warming decriers will pay the price in the future as the corrective actions that they demand cause economic collapse and warfare between those that "Have" industrial capability and those that they are preventing form development, and have no effect upon global warming since it is in the main caused by natural forces that we do not control.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 01:16 PM

The giveaway here is that Bearded Bruce seems to think it's OK to poison the planet. When you compare that to his views on global warming it all comes into perspective.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 01:19 PM

EPA has a mandate to investigate causes of enviromental problems and issue regulations to reduce those problems. *IF* they are correct about power plant emissions being a problem, then shutting down a few non-compliant plants may be progress..notwithstanding financial losses!.
   This is a matter of 'erring on the side of caution', if there is erring at all. Industry is always reluctant to admit they are causing problems as long as the 'problem' makes them more money than stopping! (Remember tobacco company lies & denials for years?)

I am awed at the number of conservative 'scientific' arguments where they simply quote each other on their own interpretations OF scientific data, rather than the majority of non-aligned scientists! If 1000 experts say man-made problems are a serious issue, and 10 conservative scientists disagree, guess who gets quoted?

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 01:25 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: beardedbruce - PM
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 12:50 PM

JtS,

Show me some PROOF that MANMADE global warming is the cause of climate change, or show yourself to be a liar and asshole.

PROOF, not just a consensus among those that agree with you.

THAT MEANS factual points- NOT political statements.

JtS is just asking you to back up the title of the thread you started with some actual quotes. Can you do that?

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 01:27 PM

The giveaway here is that Gore et al, and his supporters, are willing to have a nuclear war in order to maintain their control of the world's economy.

In addition, the fact that those here wjho push global warming insist on attacking those people who disagree with them, instead of addressing the facts that are presented.


Attack me, and you prove you have no basis to stand on.

Show me my facts are not in accord with the real-world, and you will get me to agree with you.


Richard, YOU have no way to know what **I** think. Should I point out that YOUR attempt to keep all non-first world societies and peoples from industrial development proves you arer a racist????

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 01:31 PM

KB,

Bother to read the initial post???


Get Nature, and read the original paper.

"In this chamber, 63 CERN scientists from 17 European and American institutes have done what global warming doomsayers said could never be done — demonstrate that cosmic rays promote the formation of molecules that in Earth's atmosphere can grow and seed clouds, the cloudier and thus cooler it will be. Because the sun's magnetic field controls how many cosmic rays reach Earth's atmosphere (the stronger the sun's magnetic field, the more it shields Earth from incoming cosmic rays from space), the sun determines the temperature on Earth."


NOW, PROVE that MAN-MADE GW is the cause of, and if reduced would PREVENT, Global Warming.

And I am still waiting on the explaination of why the climate om Mars and Jupiter is showing short-term changes consistant with the present scale of Earth's global warming.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 01:32 PM

If you can be bothered to plough through the load of hysterical, paranoid bollocks from the tiresome, right wing American 'science jock', James Delingpole you will come to a link to an article, by Pallab Ghosh, about the CERN results, on the BBC website. Delingpole dismisses this article as follows: "As you'd expect the BBC remains dutifully on message". But, as I'd expect, the BBC article is balanced and thoughtful and doesn't jump to politically biased conclusions. Here's a quote:

"The first results from the Cloud experiment at Cern show that cosmic rays cause a ten-fold increase in the formation rate of nanometre-sized aerosol particles. However, Dr Kirkby stressed that these particles are still far too small to seed clouds and so it is premature to conclude that cosmic rays have a significant influence on climate."

I will await further results before I jump to conclusions. But I am willing to conclude that I'm heartily sick of hysterical right wing Americans!

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 01:38 PM

Hysterical right wing nutjobs do weeem to proliferate in our Freedom From Facts culture here in the good old USA... can't argue with that!

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 01:39 PM

"Show me some PROOF that MANMADE global warming is the cause of climate change, or show yourself to be a liar and asshole."

I did not claim that. But you made a specific, untrue claim about CERN.

Its a pretty simple concept for reality based thinkers. If you claim something outrageous, you need to back it up.

The fact is that CERN has not claimed that "global warming is not man made." Yet you have claimed that it has. For this to be true. CERN would not only have to claim that there is "global warming" which they don't, but also that man made factors have been ruled out. which they have also not done.

You have presented two opinion pieces and have apparently made some outrageous claims of your own based on those articles. I don't think your wild opinions deserve any more thought than they already have received.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 01:46 PM

You may think whatever you like.

SOME here allow others to do so, without calling them assholes.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 01:50 PM

"In this chamber, 63 CERN scientists from 17 European and American institutes have done what global warming doomsayers said could never be done — demonstrate that cosmic rays promote the formation of molecules that in Earth's atmosphere can grow and seed clouds, the cloudier and thus cooler it will be. Because the sun's magnetic field controls how many cosmic rays reach Earth's atmosphere (the stronger the sun's magnetic field, the more it shields Earth from incoming cosmic rays from space), the sun determines the temperature on Earth."

You have not said that CERN said this. Even if you did. "global warming" is not mentioned. other factors are not considered. The only thing thing this experiment speaks to is whether or not the sun is a factor in the heat of the Earth and one of the mechanisms under which it is a factor.

Now please show me something to support this silly claim. "Global Warming- CERN says not man-made"

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 01:53 PM

I wasn't calling you in particular, an asshole. But you still haven't proved that what you are saying is anything but an untrue slander of CERN.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 01:55 PM

KB,

Bother to read the initial post???

Yes, I read the initial post.

There is nothing there or in any of the quotes you have provided since that say what you claim in the thread title.

You make a very specific claim, please back it up with quotes.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 01:55 PM

So.   Even if scientists at CERN actually did say that:

CERN.

A group of particle physicists take it into their heads that global warming is not man made. That's a bit like two pediatricians and a proctologist informing the world that the earth is hollow and that's where UFOs come from.

They really should be more careful about sticking their heads into the electron beam.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 02:05 PM

Don,

and YOUR qualifications for believing Gore et al???


"NASA satellite data from the years 2000 through 2011 show the Earth's atmosphere is allowing far more heat to be released into space than alarmist computer models have predicted, reports a new study in the peer-reviewed science journal Remote Sensing. The study indicates far less future global warming will occur than United Nations computer models have predicted, and supports prior studies indicating increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide trap far less heat than alarmists have claimed.

"

You want to argue SATELLITE data with me???

Better have some standing, or be prepared to back off.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 02:37 PM

"alarmist computer models"

Its not the satellite data that is in question here. It is the over interpretation. I don't think it is any great feat to surpass "Alarmist" predictions. That is a far cry form saying that "global warming" Does not exist. It certainly does not prove that CERN said that it does not exist, considering that only the opponents of generally accepted climate science are the only ones using the term "global warming." The claim in title of this thread remains highly suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 02:52 PM

The sun is a main-sequence star, G spectral class. It is one of the most common star types in the universe, and very, very stable. It formed about 5 billion years ago and will last another 5 to 7 billion years before it uses up its fuel, bloats into a red giant, then collapses into a white dwarf. It will continue in that state for many more billions of years before it eventually burns itself out and drifts through space as a dense cinder no bigger than the earth.

It is NOT a variable star, like, say, a Cepheid variable. It is stable. It does have one characteristic common of main-sequence stars. It goes through a regular sun-spot cycle. A sun-spot is like a magnetic hurricane, and although the sun does not have seasons as such, these sun-spot cycles occur regular as clockwork every eleven years, and have done so for billions of years.

The only effect this every eleven year increase in sun-spot activity has on earth is electromagnetic interference. Radio reception can get "staticky" for a few months, and it can screw up delicate electronic gear on artificial satellites.

IT DOES NOT AFFECT THE EARTH'S WEATHER.

(By the way, I did not get this data from someone's blog or from the internet in general. I've been an astronomy buff since I was a kid, I took a couple of astronomy classes in college [actually had some telescope time], and I have kept up with the subject through reading recently written books, and current periodicals such as "Scientific American" and [oddly enough] "Astronomy" and "Sky and Telescope.")

The vast majority of competent atmospheric and oceanographic scientists are in agreement that the recent warming of the earth's atmosphere and oceans began with the inception of the industrial revolution with its increase in the burning of coal and other hydrocarbon fuels, along with clear cutting of forested areas (plants take CO2 out of the atmosphere and convert it to O2). This, plus (as both Jacque Cousteau and Rachel Carson warned some decades ago) the pollution of the oceans with such things as pesticides killing off plankton, which also takes CO2 out of the atmosphere and returns it as O2.

As I say:   COMPETENT scientists all agree. Those who don't are in thrall to the hydrocarbon fuel industry and those who depend on hydrocarbon fuels, such as the automobile industry, who are being dragged, kicking and screaming, to manufacturing hybrid or all-electric cars because and increasing number of customers are demanding them.

The evidence is overwhelming. It's just that some folks are far more interested in the next quarterly report than they are in future generations. I wonder how they'll feel when the rising sea level from the melting ice inundates their expensive waterfront property.

Don Firth

P. S. And your qualifications are. . . ?

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 02:58 PM

Oh! I suppose you could say that the eleven year sun-spot cycle does affect the earth's atmosphere in one way. The aurora borealis (nothern lights) become quite spectacular for a couple of months.

But no temperature variations.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 02:59 PM

did someone say to "read Nature?"

The article on their website is a far cry form the silly claim in the title of this thread.

This is nature's headline.
Cloud formation may be linked to cosmic rays

Other key passages follow.

"I think it's an incredibly worthwhile and overdue experiment," says Piers Forster, a climatologist at the University of Leeds, UK, who studied the link between cosmic rays and climate for the latest scientific assessment by the International Panel on Climate Change. But for now at least, he says that the experiment "probably raises more questions than it answers".

But, Kirkby adds, those particles are far too small to serve as seeds for clouds. "At the moment, it actually says nothing about a possible cosmic-ray effect on clouds and climate, but it's a very important first step," he says.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 03:02 PM

"It certainly does not prove that CERN said that it does not exist,"

NOT what anyone but YOU have said.

Subject: RE: BS: Global Warming- CERN says not man-made
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 03:10 PM

More Bearded Bullshit, with an amen from PeeDee.

Best ignored; business as usual, nothing to get irritated about.