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BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 12 Sep 25 - 12:21 PM Minor aside: In comments following on from the reshuffle which was triggered (prematurely) by Angela Rayner's problems, something I agree with about reshuffles in general:
... which fully earned the response:
Evaluation of "52½p" in old money is left as an exercise. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Rain Dog Date: 12 Sep 25 - 01:57 PM "Yet we are still welcoming Epsteins best mate with open arms later this month. The hypocrisy is stunning." Best mate? Please reveal your sources. I imagine that a lot of people would like to know them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Doug Chadwick Date: 12 Sep 25 - 07:25 PM MaJoC the Filk, I understand your the comment on reshuffles on general: About 14 months. *Just* long enough to be seen to have "held" the post, just short enough not to have been able to do more than get up to speed, attend some lunches and be moved on. CHANGE PLACES! ... but what is the reponse, fully earned or otherwise, supposed to mean: Does make about as much sense as the UK leading the world in Horological Dairy products even if "It was the best butter." I wouldn't give you 53p for the heads even it included the hat. Could you explain please? DC |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: The Sandman Date: 13 Sep 25 - 04:29 AM is it time for Starmer to resign?I think he should be replaced |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 13 Sep 25 - 02:23 PM Doug: see Alice in Wonderland. The hat in question features on the front cover of the dust jacket of our household copy .... which appears to have been put Somewhere Safe. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Doug Chadwick Date: 13 Sep 25 - 02:54 PM OK, I can see where you got your references from but what the connection is, between the first comment and the response, escapes me. I wouldn't bother trying to explain it further, if I were you. Let's just accept I'm too thick to understand. DC |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 13 Sep 25 - 03:49 PM The Hatter's hat "10/6 in this style" would hardly equate to 52.5p. UK inflation since 1865 has been about 16,000%. The hat would now be £84.00 (rough approximation) But thank you for the reminder. I should re-read "Alice's Adventure in Wonderland" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 14 Sep 25 - 06:23 AM So, the rally organised by ex-con and known thug, Tommy Ten Names, resulted in dozens of arrests and many police being injured. What a surprise. The turnips ex-pet muskrat turned up on video telling the protestors that they must 'fight back or die'. I hope that, if he ever sets foot on British soil, he is arrested for inciting violence Rain Man - "Best mate? Please reveal your sources" The fact that you knew who I meant means the the hyperbole did it's job ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 20 Sep 25 - 02:40 AM Not a fan of royalty but I thought that Charlie's speech at the turnip's visit was pretty good. Went right over turnip's head of course. The look on Charlie's face during some of his guest's verbal diorhea was a picture too:-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: The Sandman Date: 20 Sep 25 - 03:31 AM 2 Establishment poodles, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: The Sandman Date: 20 Sep 25 - 03:41 AM Trump poses as anti establishment, but he is really not too bright, all this nonsense about using the military to stop boat people, the navy does not have enough ships, Trump talks off the top of his head without consulting facts |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 20 Sep 25 - 07:26 AM The UK should not use its armed forces to break International Maritime Law, period. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Nigel Parsons Date: 20 Sep 25 - 10:36 AM "The UK should not use its armed forces to break International Maritime Law, period." True! But the RNLI should not be sending boats to meet boats which have been escorted by the French authorities to mid-channel. Not meeting them does not put them in peril. The smugglers did that by arranging the boats. The French police were complicit in allowing them to leave French shores. Any boats escorting them to the mid-point are also complicit. Why does it only seem to be the British who say "Well, although they put themselves in harm's way, it is our responsibility to rescue them."? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 20 Sep 25 - 02:04 PM ”But the RNLI should not be sending boats to meet boats which have been escorted by the French authorities to mid-channel.” You forgot to complete that sentence. “…escorted by the French authorities to mid-channel, then abandoned in their leaky, unreliable craft”. Unlike the Royal Navy, The RNLI is a privately-run, independent charity, funded by voluntary public subscriptions and donations operating, under Royal Charter, according the the provisions of Article 3 of that Charter. Nowhere in those articles is there any limitation on the rescue activities of the RNLI dependent on the cause of the peril in which those rescued find themselves - all that is necessary is for the lives of human beings to be at risk at sea. Read the Charter and educate yourself. Having spent a great deal of time at sea in large sailing vessels, and having witnessed at first hand the power of the sea and the frailty of human life at sea, I know that it’s a particularly cruel, callous sort of person who would condone abandoning a group of people effectively adrift and at risk in a small boat at sea, no matter what their origins or motivations. And no matter the colour of their skins. Fortunately, there are still some of us who hold themselves to far higher standards of decency and humanity. Take care, Nigel, your true colours are showing, and they’re not pretty, not pretty at all… |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: The Sandman Date: 21 Sep 25 - 07:11 AM the split between Corbyn and Sultana is disappointing, how frequently the left gets divided, which suits the establishment, is one of them working for the establishment deliberately causing division |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Rain Dog Date: 21 Sep 25 - 10:44 AM "But the RNLI should not be sending boats to meet boats which have been escorted by the French authorities to mid-channel.” You forgot to complete that sentence. “…escorted by the French authorities to mid-channel, then abandoned in their leaky, unreliable craft” The question should be why do the French abandon them in the middle of the Channel. We all know that there are no easy answers as to how to deal with the crossings across the channel. But people should never forget that the RNLI is manned by volunteers. The crews at Dover have been called out an increasing number of times. If you have not already seen it, i would recommend this episode of Saving Lives At Sea. Saving Lives at Sea Series 10: 1. Emergency in the Channel It does include upsetting scenes. It does also show otber vessels responding to the emergency. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 21 Sep 25 - 12:12 PM ”We all know that there are no easy answers as to how to deal with the crossings across the channel. But people should never forget that the RNLI is manned by volunteers. The crews at Dover have been called out an increasing number of times. If you have not already seen it, i would recommend this episode of Saving Lives At Sea. Saving Lives at Sea Series 10: 1. Emergency in the Channel It does include upsetting scenes.” That’s very true, RD, and one of the points I was making in my previous post is that, unlike vessels of the RN, the Lifeboat crews aren’t ordered to carry out service, they do so because they want to, because they regard it as their duty as decent human beings. And I regard the earlier statement, ”Why does it only seem to be the British who say "Well, although they put themselves in harm's way, it is our responsibility to rescue them."?” as a shabby, shameful example of victim-blaming. Absolutely heartless and disgraceful. I’ve already seen the episode of ‘Saving Lives at Sea’ you linked to, but I watched it again from your link. Those who, from the comfort of their living rooms, question the rescues carried out by, not only the RNLI, but other vessels too (including the French), really should be honest and examine their own heartless, callous attitudes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 22 Sep 25 - 06:12 AM This being, first and foremost, a music forum, here’s one for the hard-of-heart, “Let ‘em drown” brigade… “Are We Human?” |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: The Sandman Date: 22 Sep 25 - 09:47 AM https://news.sky.com/story/duchess-of-york-dropped-as-patron-of-childrens-hospice-julias-house-over-epstein-email-13436100?utm_source=firefox-newtab-en-gb |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: The Sandman Date: 22 Sep 25 - 09:48 AM https://news.sky.com/story/duchess-of-york-dropped-as-patron-of-childrens-hospice-julias-house-over-epstein-email-13436100?utm_s |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 22 Sep 25 - 01:32 PM Found in the Letters column in this week's New
.... by way of balance. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 23 Sep 25 - 12:30 PM Heard a question posed a BBC political pundit yesterday. Along the lines of "Why are reform gaining so much popularity?" It is not too often that I can be seen shouting at the TV but the words were something like "Because you bunch of fucking wank-puffins keep pushing the shite that deform are spewing out on the rest of us!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: The Sandman Date: 23 Sep 25 - 01:05 PM and also the faux pas made by Starmer, Reform membership, increased dramatically when Starmer made a personal attack on Farage in parliament |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 23 Sep 25 - 01:10 PM The BBC are Deform’s biggest cheer-leaders. Look at how much time they spend on reporting Deform business (with 4 MPs) compared to the Greens (also with 4 MPs) and the Lib-Dems (with 72 MPs). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: The Sandman Date: 23 Sep 25 - 01:52 PM I agree if they were truly impartial they would give him less time., but if you include what i said earlier about Starmers attack on Farage, and reforms increased membership on that day, you get a truer picture.There is no gettying away from the effct Starmers attack on Farage had, Harold Wilson would never have made that mistake |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 24 Sep 25 - 03:06 AM Just reading that the government has managed to recover £500m lost to benefit fraud using an AI tool. Good for them. They now just need another one to stop the billions being lost to the tax avoidance schemes put in place to make the rich even richer... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Fred Date: 24 Sep 25 - 03:36 AM I don't often post here, but I feel you guys are knocking on the wrong door when you blame Reform's popularity on the BBC. Is it that, or is it that the voters who want illegal immigration stopped tried the Tories who failed to tackle it, tried Labour which led to record levels and Farage is saying what they want to hear? I don't know. I've long given up on politics. Try Labour, mess up try Tories and it's like the Ariston TV ad if you remember that. All you get is different faces pushing the same old hand-cart which is long overdue a major service :) -F |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 24 Sep 25 - 04:41 AM I don’t think anyone is ‘blaming’ the BBC for Deform’s apparent popularity, Fred. What is being queried is the completely disproportionate amount of exposure they are getting on the BBC, particularly Farage. They have the same number of MPs as the Greens, yet how often do you see anyone from the Greens on BBC. Likewise the Lib-Dems, who have fifteen times the number of Deform MPs, yet get nowhere near the BBC airtime that Deform gets. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 24 Sep 25 - 04:44 AM Farage is saying what they want to hear ON THE BBC EVERY DAY while Greens, with as many MPs and the LibDems with nearly 10 times as many get very little air time. Populism is the current scourge of politics and the excuse that "they are all the same" is lame and lazy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Fred Date: 24 Sep 25 - 05:12 AM Ah, I see. Well, yes, that's a valid argument, BWM, though it doesn't change my view on politics. I see them as all at it, in it for them. Take the cost-of-living crisis. If it had the same effect on them as it does the poor, you'd soon see something done about it it. I have a very dim view of them - that THEY'VE caused - and it's up to them to prove I can trust them with my vote. -F |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Fred Date: 24 Sep 25 - 05:52 AM But I think Farage would find a way to rally the people anyway, without the BBC. I think, as well, that it's just words. If people buy into it, I think they're heading for a disappointment. Just my opinion. -F |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 24 Sep 25 - 06:05 AM It’s Populism - telling people what they want to hear, persuading them that all their problems are caused by a minority who are ‘different’, convincing the less-well-off that their enemy is those even worse-off. In 1930s Germany, it was ‘the Jewish problem’. In 2020’s UK (and, for that matter, the US) it’s ‘illegal immigrants’. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Fred Date: 24 Sep 25 - 06:25 AM So what you're saying is, scapegoat excuses to whip up hysteria :) -F |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Fred Date: 24 Sep 25 - 07:07 AM I'm just pulling your leg, BWM ;) -F |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 24 Sep 25 - 08:43 AM "So what you're saying is, scapegoat excuses to whip up hysteria :)" What I'm saying is that Deform UK are guilty of employing the politics of division. The Tories too, to perhaps a lesser degree. And that's how it happened in 1930s Germany. I was born just after the end of WW2 and, as a little lad, I remember my dad telling me about Hitler, the Nazis, and their treatment of the Jews. And i remember him telling me not to worry, "It could never happen here". Guess what, Dad... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Fred Date: 24 Sep 25 - 11:41 AM One of the things I dislike about politics is that it robs people of having fun, they get heated in their defence of the party they support. And that's why I came here, that's why I posted. Politicians say one thing and do another. Are they worthy of your support? I don't think so. It's why I don't usually get involved. I feel, if I defended them or worse still supported them, I'd be as bad as they are. So I devote myself to helping others less fortunate, or I'm taking home injured wildlife I've found so that Mrs Fred can take them to the vet. I'd rather do this a million times than go into a polling booth just once. -F |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Fred Date: 24 Sep 25 - 12:15 PM Erm...rant over lol sorry. -F |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 25 Sep 25 - 04:21 AM "they get heated in their defence of the party they support" Sorry Fred but that is not happening here. The only thing people are getting heated about is what is right and what is wrong whicher party is doing it. Yes, they have all done things differently to their manifestos and that is wrong but to use that as an excuse to shirk the responsibility to vote is equally wrong. Our forefathers fought hard for the right to determine our own governance. Without that right we would have never been able to vote for those who gave us decent working conditions, pensions and the NHS. You don't like the main parties. That's fine. Vote Green. Vote independent. But for heavens sake don't give up the hard won right to vote. And don't fall for the populist line spun by deform :-D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Fred Date: 25 Sep 25 - 05:48 AM Dave, Farage doesn't have me in his stable. I'm a little too old in the tooth to fall for it. As I said above, Farage knows what resonates with certain people. If they fall for it and get disappointed, that's them. Honesty is a big thing for me. Caring is another. Ok, you'll see above in this thread that, as a small child, I was a scallywag, but in adulthood I'm very different. I want politicians to make a difference to people's lives and I don't see that. I see them poking holes in the air with their finger, or making wonderful pre-election promises that they conveniently forget once they're elected. Yes, our forefathers who fought so hard, what do you think THEY'D say about today's shower? Sorry, Dave, you seem a lovely bloke but you're not going to convince me to vote for people I don't trust. I'd rather kick the bucket :-D -F |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 25 Sep 25 - 06:47 AM I'm not trying to convince anyone to vote for anything. Just to make sure that the right to vote is maintained for our children and grandchildren. We can see that right being eroded in the USA right now. I know that you are disheartened with the major parties, as are many people, so why not vote for someone who YOU think CAN make a difference? I vote every time I can. In local elections, we are lucky to have a plethora of independent and very effective councillors who get my support. In the general election, in this area, if you put a blue rosette on a pig it would be elected so I either spoil my vote or go Green. I used to be a supporter of the Labour party but unless they go back to their roots and start to help those in need, they shall not get my vote again. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Donuel Date: 25 Sep 25 - 07:26 AM Powerlessness is a symptom of a zombie democracy that serves no one but the politicians and their authoritarian, wealthy masters. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 25 Sep 25 - 07:43 AM I posted this in the Trump thread because it is by American Poet, William Stafford. It is just as apt here Learning A piccolo played, then a drum. Feet began to come—a part of the music. Here came a horse, clippety clop, away. My mother said, "Don't run— the army is after someone other than us. If you stay you'll learn our enemy." Then he came, the speaker. He stood in the square. He told us who to hate. I watched my mother's face, its quiet. "That's him," she said. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Fred Date: 25 Sep 25 - 08:42 AM Dave, to be fair, you're not trying to convince me to vote for people I don't trust. I take that back and apologise. And it's not like I WANT to be a non-voter. If they gave me a reason to vote for them, I would. -F |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Dave the Gnome Date: 25 Sep 25 - 09:30 AM Can't say fairer than that Fred and no apology needed. I have mentioned Green before but I am not trying to push them. Honest! But does their manefesto give you a reason to vote for them? Green Party Manefesto I just don't like to see people giving up all hope of a better future due to the current crop of shysters! :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Rain Dog Date: 25 Sep 25 - 10:13 AM Fred, i understand your reluctance to vote but i always encourage everyone to vote, even those who would never agree with my choice. You might not like any of the choices but you could always vote for the least worst party. It would be better than nothing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 25 Sep 25 - 11:46 AM For me, the most important reason for voting is that it’s the only thing that separates us from the serfs of the old Feudal system, and it’s the one and only means of having a say, as small as it is, in the running of our Society (with a big ‘S’). ‘One man, one vote’ was long- and hard-fought for, and I regard voting both as a right and a duty. I agree that politics is in a bad place right now - Populism has very much taken charge, and the tactics of 1930s Germany are surfacing. Despite my constituency being similar to Dave’s, where a pig would get elected if it wore a blue rosette, I voted Labour in 2024. I got the same Tory MP as previously, but I got the government I preferred. Unfortunately, they have turned out to be something of a disappointment, but at least I took the opportunity to state my preference - if I didn’t vote, how could I complain about whatever the outcome turned out to be? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Raggytash Date: 25 Sep 25 - 02:00 PM " if I didn’t vote, how could I complain about whatever the outcome turned out to be?" Correct BWM, I would go a step further and say if you didn't vote you have no part to play in a political discussion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Stilly River Sage Date: 25 Sep 25 - 02:09 PM Not voting is voting, but for an outcome you have no right to complain about. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Fred Date: 25 Sep 25 - 03:48 PM I've complained about no outcome of any, not even non-uk. election. And members rights to participate in this thread has nothing to do with voting, it is surely at the discretion of those in charge of the forum. i left a previous forum hoping for better here. Goodbye. Fred |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4 From: Backwoodsman Date: 25 Sep 25 - 04:11 PM ”if you didn't vote you have no part to play in a political discussion.” I wouldn’t go that far, Raggy - we are all citizens of our country, to all intents and purposes we have free speech, and we are all entitled to express our views. But I just wouldn’t feel entitled to complain about the government if I hadn’t voted, that’s all. |
