BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 01:47 PM

Why on earth should "convicted felons" be denied the right to vote, once they have served their sentence? Is this allowed under the constitution? It wouldn't in most democracies.

Has the supreme court ever ruled on this? After all I gather it has decided that being a convicted felons doesn't remove the right to have a gun.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: TIA
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 03:30 PM

That would be you talking, and not me.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 04:42 PM

"After all I gather it has decided that being a convicted felons doesn't remove the right to have a gun. "

Under US Federal law, having a felony conviction DOES remove the right to own a gun.


It is illegal for criminals to have guns, by Federal law. ( since 1968, at least.)

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 04:49 PM

in answer to question, I will repost part of the articles that was removed...


Florida's felon ban originated before the Civil War, and today the state remains one of 10 that restrict some felons from voting even after they've served their time. The law requires state and county elections officials to remove felons from voter rolls after conviction and add them only when they've won clemency to restore their voting rights.

In 2007, the state eased the restrictions by granting automatic clemency to most nonviolent offenders who have completed their sentences. Others, including people convicted of federal offenses, multiple felonies or crimes such as drug trafficking, murder and sex charges, must still apply for clemency and have their cases reviewed.

The felons the Sun Sentinel identified never received clemency, but their names remain on Florida's voter rolls. Some are well-known: ex-Broward Sheriff Ken Jenne and ex-Palm Beach County Commissioner Tony Masilotti, for instance, both convicted last year of public corruption.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 05:21 PM

Supreme Court Rules Certain Convicted Felons May Have Guns

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 09:26 PM

As I posted earlier, (WSJ) Acorn has fired 80 workers in New Mexico since December 2007 over potentially fraudulent registrations. And taking other action against the problem in other states.

Please read my post of 11 Oct 2008 12:24 PM.

It is obvious that Acorn, as it says, is taking steps to combat the problem of fraudulent registrations.   Unless you would care to contradict the WSJ. If you do, you need a better source.

So the burden of proof is now on those who allege that Acorn is promoting fraudulent registrations as a matter of policy. So far there is precisely zero evidence of this.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 07:25 AM

"provided the convictions were in foreign courts."

So, if the conviction is by a US court, the felon cannot own a gun.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 07:38 AM

Under the GCA, firearms possession by certain categories of individuals is prohibited.

Anyone who is under the age of 18, except with the written permission of their parent or guardian.
Anyone who has been convicted in a federal court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year, excluding crimes of imprisonment that are related to the regulation of business practices.
Anyone who has been convicted in a state court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 2 years, excluding crimes of imprisonment that are related to the regulation of business practices.
Anyone who is a fugitive from justice.
Anyone who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance.
Anyone who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to a mental institution.
Any alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States or an alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa.
Anyone who has been discharged from the US Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions.
Anyone who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his or her citizenship.
Anyone that is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner.
Anyone who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence. (See the Lautenberg Amendment.)
A person who is under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year cannot lawfully receive a firearm. Such person may continue to lawfully possess firearms obtained prior to the indictment or information.

The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993 created a national background check system to prevent firearms sales to such "prohibited persons."

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 02:49 PM

Brooklyn Middle School Ordered To Remove Obama Poster

Last Edited: Wednesday, 15 Oct 2008, 11:48 AM EDT
Created: Wednesday, 15 Oct 2008, 10:49 AM EDT

Inspirational poster or openly partisan politics? That is the question over a large poster featuring Sen. Barack Obama that was on display over a middle school in Brooklyn.

The New York City Department of Education has reportedly ordered MS 61 in Crown Heights to remove the poster. The Gladstone H Atwell School is located a few blocks east of Prospect Park.

One teacher, who requested anonymity, told the New York Post, "I consider it a form of electioneering."

The Post says the action continues the DOE's crackdown on politically charged expression in schools - as the teachers union defends workers' rights to wear partisan campaign buttons in class.

The union filed a lawsuit in federal court last Friday, arguing that the crackdown violated teachers' rights to free expression. But Schools Chancellor Joel Klein disputed that claim in papers submitted to the court yesterday, arguing that the prohibition "preserves and protects the rights of students to be free from partisan view of teachers in the classroom."

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 02:57 PM

Biden routes campaign cash to family, their firms
Discloses $2 million in business arrangements
Jim McElhatton (Contact)
Wednesday, October 15, 2008

Democratic vice-presidential candidate Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. has paid more than $2 million in campaign cash to his family members, their businesses and employers over the years, a practice that watchdogs criticize as rife with potential conflicts of interest.

The money largely flowed from the coffers of Mr. Biden's failed presidential campaign during the past two years to a company that employs his sister and longtime campaign manager, Valerie Biden Owens, according to campaign disclosure filings.

The senator from Delaware also directed campaign legal work to a Washington lobbying and law firm founded by his son R. Hunter Biden, the disclosures show.

Putting family members and their companies on the political payroll is legal if the work is legitimate and charged at market rates, according to the Federal Election Commission. Still, public watchdog groups have long criticized such arrangements.
"Even though legal within restraints, it's not something I view as completely ethical," said Craig Holman, legislative director for Public Citizen, a campaign finance watchdog organization. "Any candidate ought to shy away from that."

Aides to Mr. Biden said all of the payments he has made to family members or their employers were aboveboard.

"While no Biden family members are being paid by the Obama-Biden campaign, one of Joe Biden´s greatest political strengths and secret weapon has always been his sister Valerie, starting with her role managing his David-versus-Goliath upset Senate victory in 1972," said Biden spokesman David Wade.

"Valerie is a well-known and highly regarded political operative in Democratic politics in Delaware and nationally, and her firm has worked on top races from Michigan to Texas. End of story," Mr. Wade said.

Mr. Biden is hardly alone among members of Congress whose campaigns hold close ties to family. FEC records also show that Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain's political action committee, Straight Talk America, paid more than $15,000 in 2006 to his wife, Cindy.

McCain campaign spokesman Brian Rogers said the payment reimbursed Mrs. McCain for catering expenses she had covered in connection with an election night party.

The majority of Biden campaign money tied to family - $1.8 million - was for media consulting bills to Joe Slade White & Co., where Mrs. Owens is a top executive. The firm did not return telephone and e-mail messages.

Such payments usually include a large portion of "pass through" money, where the consulting company gets campaign cash then uses it to produce and buy political ads. Still, the consulting company usually keeps a portion of the money, Mr. Holman said.

"It's a lot of money either way," he said.

[Once more, BB, post a summary and a link]

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 03:05 PM

I would support the DOE's ban on political advertising (whether posters, buttons, or whatever) in schools. The kids are a captive audience, and whether by teachers or the school administration, political appeals are, I believe, an impermissible pressure on them.

If teachers want to have political bumper stickers on their cars in the school parking lot, I'd say that's fine, because it's sufficiently removed from the authority pressure in the classroom. The teachers can put their buttons in their lapels as they leave the school.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 03:25 PM

Have you given up on the ACORN claims? I saw all sorts of reports on TV last night that seem to indicate that ACORN itself was a victim of lazy paid canvassers who got paid by turning in many forms.

Most of the bad forms were in the same handwriting, and no one believes they would ever allow illegal voting.

This tactic of trying to connect Democrats with anything that seems naughty, whether the 'connection' is reasonable or not is beginning to backfire.

Rev. Wright, terrorists, Fannie Mae, non-citizens....etc... all just smears to create doubt.

Hey..losing one every now & then won't hurt you....WE know.. *grin*

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:09 PM

BillD,

I mentioned the tactic of flooding the registration office with invalid applications, to keep valid registrations from being processed. But it seems that is ok, unless a Republican does something to slow down registrations...

This tactic of trying to connect Republicans with anything that seems naughty, whether the 'connection' is reasonable or not is beginning to backfire, as well- but that does not even slow down many here.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:15 PM

ACORN doesn't flood the registration office with invalid registrations in order to prevent valid registrations from being processed.

ACORN works hard to insure that the authorities investigate and prosecute anyone working for ACORN who fills out invalid registration forms.

In their training of employees, they make it very clear that if anyone engages in falsification of registrations, they will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. When invalid forms are discovered through their quality control measures, those forms are set aside and flagged with an explanation of the problem, and they are sent to the authorities for investigation. And they support the authorities in prosecuting the offenders.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:17 PM

And by the way, as a percentage of the registration forms that ACORN submits to the registration offices, the number that are invalid is extremely small.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:34 PM

" But it seems that is ok, unless a Republican does something to slow down registrations..."

Same old rhetorical game, Bruce....I do NOT see why you continue to use it. No it is NOT Ok, no matter who tries it...and you know I hold that postion.
Besides, Democrats are reveling in MORE registrations, since new voters seem to be heavily Democratic... *smile*

Republicans would not use such a simple method, knowing it would accomplish little....they prefer to use more sophisticated techniques to actually intimidate REAL voters.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 06:41 AM

"And by the way, as a percentage of the registration forms that ACORN submits to the registration offices, the number that are invalid is extremely small."

CarolC,

The articles I have read to not support your statement as being valid. Can youy provide any sources beside ACORN that it is so???

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:22 AM

BB--

Regardless of the number of falsified registrations, Acorn is required by many states to turn over all registrations, falsified or not, to the state. No tactic of jamming channels is involved.

And this was pointed out earlier in the thread.

Also:

WSJ 15 Oct 2008:

After problems with the system by which Acorn paid according to number of registrations turned in, it changed to an an hourly rate system, with goals for numbers of registrations. "The group" (Acorn) "also started its own antifraud program, requiring all voter applications be reviewed by supervisors, and then verified by call-center employees, who make as many as three attempts to reach each voter signed up with a canvasser. Acorn's internal program flags potentially fraudulent registrations.   Then, as many but not all states require, it turns them over to election officials."



If you have contrary information, you are cordially requested to provide it--with exact source.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:29 AM

Ron,

I concede the WSJ article is correct vice the present ACORN policies- but that does not negate the fact that the effect of ACORN is to flood the registration office with fraudulant forms.

"Acorn's internal program flags potentially fraudulent registrations.   Then, as many but not all states require, it turns them over to election officials"

I hereby invoke the Law of "Unintended" Consequences.

REGARDLESS of the "intent" of ACORN, the effect is to overload the registration offices with those "potentially fraudulent registrations"

I just do not believe that the consequences are unintended.


If you have contrary information, you are cordially requested to provide it--with exact source.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 08:54 AM

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Bertha+Lewis+acorn+c+span&hl=en&emb=0&aq=f#

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEd1D_E_VaE

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 09:01 AM

Any organization that pays people to register voters will have the same problem and the same effect, not just ACORN.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 09:08 AM

CarolC,

EXACTLY- ANYONE who acts in the wway ACORN was acting ( pushing numbers of registrations as opposed to actually tyrying to register those unable to register otherwise) is guilty- BUT ACORN *WAS* doing it, and others were not.


Sort of like saying that ANYONE who challanged the voter rolls in Florida was trying to disenfranchise those voters.... The blame seems to have been assigned to Republicans BECAUSE THEY WERE THE ONES WHO ACTUALLY did the challange. Or will you absolve them of any guilt, since ANYONE who acted as they did would have produced the same results?????

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 09:11 AM

I'd like to see some evidence that they were pushing numbers of registrations. And not just rumor and innuendo, either. Real evidence. There's too many lies out there about ACORN right now for me to believe any but the most credible of sources.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 12:18 PM

BB said, in part:

I just do not believe that the consequences are unintended.

Ahh, now we're getting to it. BB's belief! "Don't bother me with other views, don't bother me with facts or explanations. I believe thus and so, regardless what you may say."

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 12:55 PM

Dave,

The FACTS are not in question- ACORN has submitted a large number of fraudulant registrations. In trying to understand why, what have we to fall back on but our beliefs based on the facts???


YOU seem to believe as well:

"I would support the DOE's ban on political advertising (whether posters, buttons, or whatever) in schools. The kids are a captive audience, and whether by teachers or the school administration, political appeals are, I believe, an impermissible pressure on them. "


Which I agree with- I,too, believe that.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:27 PM

As I understand it, ACORN submitted questionable registration forms:

~ in states where they were required to submit all filled-out forms, and

~ with cover-letters flagging the questionable applications that their own quality-control operation had identified.

Short of abandoning all efforts to get out the vote, what more could be asked of them?

In the current climate of bitter partisanship, and of a trend among Republican operatives to suppress and discourage new voter registrations as a general rule, I would not be at all surprised to learn that election officials in GOP-controlled jurisdictions might not have intentionally disregarded ACORN's accompanying disclaimers pointing out the obviously fraudulent forms, with the clear intent of creating controversy and distraction, when their assigned role as administative employees on the public payrolls would be to approve the many good registration applications and to winnow out the bad ones, referring to ACORN's accompanying documentation when appropriate, and to do so without unneccessary public comment.

At last night's debate, McCain started to sound off on this manufactured controversy by spouting a bunch of rhetoric about "the greatest election fraud ever perpetrated in our great nation's history," or some such hyperbole. What a load of obvious crap! Even McCain himself more-or-less dropped the subject quickly, when it was pretty obviously not getting him anywhere.

The thing is, until an unqualified person actually shows up to cast an invalid ballot, there is no election fraud.

Does anyone really believe that any non-citizen, felon, under-18 teenager, or otherwise unqualified individual is going to show up at the polls with a picture ID to vote under the false identity of "Terrell Owens" or "Mickey Mouse"?

Even if you believe that one or two shady individuals might pull off such an unlikley misrepresentation, can you seriously argue that any meaningful statewide result would be jeopardized?

Get over it!

And also ~ please give some serious thought to the validity of any political philosophy that depends so strongly upon the prevention of voting by certain selected groups of citizens in order to retain its hold on power.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:29 PM

They're definitely using it to suppress votes. They're even pulling registrations in areas where there haven't been any problems.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 02:07 PM

pushing numbers of registrations as opposed to actually trying to register those unable to register otherwise

Where do you draw the line between those things? If you ask someone if they'd like to be registered and hand them a form, is that pushing? How about if they seem doubtful and you try to explain that being able to vote is a good thing, or a citizen's duty?

The roots of this confusiion seem tom have been a decision to pay registration workers on the basis of the number of people they register, which seems a pretty stupid idea. Inevitably doing it that way invites over-inflated numbers.

If it has to be done by paid workers rather than volunteers, the only sensible thing is to be paid by the hour or by the day. All right that way, there might be some skivers, but that'd be a lot less hassle than masses of Mickey Mouse registrations to weed out, and give rise to damaging accusations.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 03:54 PM

They don't pay according to the number of registrations that are filled out. That's another one of the lies that's being spread about ACORN. They pay by the hour.

This whole thing has been trumped up to give Republicans the excuse to create laws that will make it difficult for the poorest people to vote, and to give them excuses to pull valid registrations so that people will have to jump through a lot of hoops to be able to vote. And they're targeting those who have been recently registered, which are overwhelmingly votes that will go to Obama.

This is, from start to finish, a form of election fraud that is being perpetrated by the Republicans.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 04:19 PM

Really? Do you think the Republicans are THAT clever and devious?

Should I just **believe** it?   *grin*

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 04:44 PM

Bill, what's so hard to believe?

Without a whole lot of finageling on the part of Republican officeholders on various local and statewide levels of government in Florida and Ohio, we wouldn't have had to endure the eight-year misrule of Dick Cheney and his toady George W Bush.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 04:44 PM

Do bears shit in the woods?

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 04:50 PM

I did hope you could the the bulge in my cheek where my tongue was.....

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 04:53 PM

And that's one of the things that shows how silly the argument is that ACORN was trying to prevent other registrations from being processed. It's in the interests of the candidate they support for the largest possible number of people to be registered, because the new registrations are overwhelmingly Democrat. So it wouldn't at all be in ACORN's interest to try to prevent anyone's registration from being processed.

The only people who have a vested interest in making it difficult for people to register are the Republicans.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: TIA
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 05:16 PM

The whole ACORN "scandal" bears the mark of Karl Rove (or someone trained by Karl Rove). Democrats are making huge gains in registration - with or without ACORN. ACORN registers everyone, not just Democrats, but it so happens that where they work - amongst the downtrodden - people are more likely to vote Democratic (duh). In every organization there are lazies and jokers. The lazies and jokers at ACORN filled out registration forms with the names of the Dallas Cowboys starting line-up (note that people claiming to be the Dallas Cowboys starting line-up did not vote, nor even attempt to vote, and do you really think they were going to?). The lazies or jokers who did this were fired. ACORN is legally bound to submit these forms even if they are clearly the work of lazies and jokers, so they did, and notified the authorities.

This is where the Rovian lightbulbs clicked on over horned heads. The authorities ignored ACORN's warnings about these phony forms for months (intentionally and with a devious purpose). Then, they subpoena'ed them (even though they already had them), and immediately requested search warrants (even though the subpoena'ed records had already been sent - again (!). But they don't want the actual documents, and they don't care about legal procedure except in that they can use it to create a media event that will play endlessly on Fox News. So the "raid" nets phony registration forms. Wow! Who knew?!? Now it's easy to spread the story that they were taken in a raid, and don't reveal that you already had them, and that they had been given voluntarily - along with a warning, and a request to disallow them. Perfect recipe for a media firestorm about Democratic voter fraud. Now, go ahead and perpetrate your own shady voter suppression tricks, and you have disarmed any opponents because they seem to be simply accusing you of what they just got "caught" doing. "Oh yeah, well your stinky too!" It is perfect. It is brilliant. And many smart (as well as dumb) people have fallen for it.

This even beats Rove bugging his own office in 1986 to discredit his opposition. But the MO is the same isn't it?

And, as always, do not believe TIA, go do your own research (a little beyond just Fox News of course).

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 05:45 PM

From today's email from MoveOn.org:

For over twenty-five years, Republicans have promoted the myth of voting fraud to argue for restrictive voting laws — but Bush's own Justice Department found virtually no organized voting fraud. Now McCain is attacking ACORN in order to justify a frenzy of lawsuits making it harder for Obama supporters to vote.

Here's what he's not telling you:

The only fraud committed was against ACORN itself. ACORN hired 13,000 workers to register a remarkable 1.3 million new voters. And a few of them turned in registration forms with inaccurate and even made-up names to get credit for work they didn't do. ACORN fired them and turned them over to the authorities.

ACORN reported the fraudulent registration forms. In most states, ACORN is required by law to submit all forms collected whether they appear to be bogus or not—that way election officials, not partisan groups, can make the call. ACORN flags cards that may not be legitimate. And in many places, the charges of fraud only came up because ACORN was the one who flagged the cards!

This won't have any impact on the election. No one is allowed to vote unless they are properly registered. And there is no evidence of false registrations actually leading to organized voting fraud.

MoveOn is asking for $25 contributions for an organized refutation of this pack of lies. If you're interested and can pitch in, just browse to (duh!) www.moveon.org.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 07:14 PM

So if they pay by the hour why should anyone bother to make up names? If a dodgy registerer didn't feel like working they could just say "Nobody wanted to register", which is surely a lot less trouble. And less likely to be found out.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 07:23 PM

It's not unusual for hourly employees to make up stories about the work they did. They have to justify their continued employment, after all. I imagine that if an employee has a slow day and comes back and reports it, they probably won't have any problems, but if they consistently come back without much to show for themselves, their supervisors might start wondering what they were doing with their time while they were on the clock.

I've certainly seen hourly employees f*cking off and lying about what they were doing during the work day.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: TIA
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 07:47 PM

Why make up names on the clock? I've seen all kinds of shenanigans by hourlies. Usually it's just to be funny (and sometimes it really is, other times it just stupid). It was especially funny when *I* was an hourly.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 05:30 PM

Mentally challenged man says his vote wasn't right

Assisted Voting Wrong Turn???

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 10:49 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/27245181#27245181

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 01:02 AM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/27245744#27245744

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 10:01 AM

Here's Michael Tomasky's piece about this in today's Guardian:

Foul calls on voter fraud

"With avenues to victory in the presidential race closing fast, Republicans are now laying the groundwork for casting doubt on the results. Prepare yourself for lurid tales, these next two-and-a-half weeks, of 'voter fraud'..."

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: Alice
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 05:48 PM

SACRAMENTO -- Dozens of newly minted Republican voters say they were duped into joining the party by a GOP contractor with a trail of fraud complaints stretching across the country.

Voters contacted by The Times said they were tricked into switching parties while signing what they believed were petitions for tougher penalties against child molesters. Some said they were told that they had to become Republicans to sign the petition, contrary to California initiative law. Others had no idea their registration was being changed.

It is a bait-and-switch scheme familiar to election experts. The firm hired by the California Republican Party -- a small company called Young Political Majors, or YPM, which operates in several states -- has been accused of using the tactic across the country.

Election officials and lawmakers have launched investigations into the activities of YPM workers in Florida and Massachusetts. In Arizona, the firm was recently a defendant in a civil rights lawsuit. Prosecutors in Los Angeles and Ventura counties say they are investigating complaints about the company.


The rest of the article is here:

The L A Times

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 05:52 PM

But surely changing your party registration doesn't make any difference to who you can vote for? I suppose in primaries it might make a difference, but there won't be any more primaries for years.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: Alice
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 06:03 PM

McGrath, it is a tactic that has been used by the Republican group to take Democrats off the mailing and phone lists that keep them in touch with the party. That includes all the information that Dems provide to those registered to the party. That's everything from fundraising mailings to call lists to see if you want to volunteer or put a political sign in your yard.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 08:14 AM

If anybody ever cold-phoned me to ask me to vote for them the chances of my doing so would be sharply reduced. I suspect I'm not alone in this.

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: Alice
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 11:02 AM

I just checked California site on voter registration.

If you switch your party affiliation YOU DO have to re-register to vote, which has to be done at least 15 days before an election.

So, if your party affiliation was changed and you thought you were just signing a petition against child molestation, as happened in the California case with the Republican scam, you would show up at the polls to vote on election day and find that you could not vote because you did not re-register.

http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/elections_vr.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: Alice
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 11:07 AM

From Wikipedia,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caging_list

Republican caging (voter suppression)

Monica Goodling was the first to publicly admit to the use of "vote caging" in her written and oral testimony to the United States House Judiciary Committee on May 23, 2007, mentioning that Tim Griffin, who was appointed as interim United States Attorney for the Eastern District of Arkansas, would have allegations of vote caging arise if ever presented to be confirmed by the Senate to the office, and that the Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty "failed to disclose that he had some knowledge of allegations that Tim Griffin had been involved in vote-caging during his work on the president's 2004 campaign."

Subject: RE: BS: Would YOU be happy if Rep. did this?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 11:20 AM

I know this is supposed to be a serious discussion, but it just seems like the right place to note that Colin Powell coming out now for Obama is kinda like if Peter, Paul, and Mary came out about now for McCain/Palin.

~Susan