Help: The Foggy Dew (Fr. O'Neill): tune?

Subject: Foggy Dew (1916) Tune
From: Kim C
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 10:22 AM

I couldn't get SuperSearch to work this morning! Anyway, I was watching Ken Burns' Civil War, and heard a tune that was almost exactly like the Foggy Dew melody (that would be the Easter Uprising of 1916 Foggy Dew, not the Burl Ives one). The only difference was, it was in waltz time, and the chorus part was a little different.

As I understand it, the words were written by Francis O'Neill, who was a tune collector himself. Was this an older tune he had collected? What is it? Any ideas?

Thanks -------------- KFC

Subject: RE: Help: Foggy Dew (1916) Tune
From: Alice
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 10:44 AM

See the earlier thread The Foggy Dew

Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: Martin Ryan
Date: 12-Nov-97 - 04:22 AM
Shop: The Foggy Dew

....snip.... The air "belonged to an old love song, recorded in 1913 by John McCormack". I'm not sure what that last refers to - although the air is certainly used (with slight differences) for "The Banks of the Moorlough Shore" - which is a beautiful love song!

Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew
From: Big Tim
Date: 29-Mar-02 - 02:11 PM
Shop: Mary Ann , The Foggy Dew

The tune is traditional, almost certainly taken by Fr O'Neill from the very popular "Moorlough Shore". The origins of this song and the location of "Moorlough" or "moor lough" are uncertain but generally taken to be Moorlough Bay on the north Antrim coast, not a million miles from Portglenone where Fr O'Neill was born and raised. There was a very scholarly thread on "Moorlough Shore", last year I think.

Subject: RE: Help: Foggy Dew (1916) Tune
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 11:59 AM

Kim

You had me puzzled for a moment..... That "Fr" is an abbreviation for "Father" i.e. a Catholic Priest, in this case.

Regards

p.s. It should, of course, be "Fr."

Subject: RE: Help: Foggy Dew (1916) Tune
From: Kim C
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 12:14 PM

I believe it's supposed to stand for Francis...

Subject: RE: Help: Foggy Dew (1916) Tune
From: Noreen
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 12:21 PM

Not that I've come across, Kim, whereas it does commonly stand for Father.

Subject: RE: Help: Foggy Dew (1916) Tune
From: Noreen
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 12:23 PM

Captain Francis O'Neill, on the other hand, did collect a few tunes...

Subject: RE: Help: Foggy Dew (1916) Tune
From: Kim C
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 12:32 PM

As stated in the original post, it was Francis O'Neill who wrote the Foggy Dew lyrics, and I'm sure that's what the other poster meant by "Fr".

Now, does anyone have any more information on the tune? I'm not finding anything about it except that it's "old."

Subject: RE: Help: Foggy Dew (1916) Tune
From: Big Tim
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 02:50 PM

FATHER O'Neill wrote the lyrics in 1919 after being disapointed at some of the bickering among republicans in the Provisional Dail (Parliament) of 1919. He saw it as being in sharp contrast with the heroic sacrifice made by the rebels of the 1916 Rising against British rule who had given their lives for a pure, independent republic.

Subject: RE: Help: Foggy Dew (1916) Tune
From: Big Tim
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 02:56 PM

PS: I got the info by writing to the librarian of the Catholic Church in Northern Ireland.

Subject: RE: Help: Foggy Dew (1916) Tune
From: MartinRyan
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 04:30 PM

Aaaaaaaaaagh......

Regards

Subject: RE: Help: Foggy Dew (1916) Tune
From: Noreen
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 07:42 PM

The tune is traditional, almost certainly taken by Fr O'Neill from the very popular "Moorlough Shore". (Big Tim, quoted by Alice, above)

You want more, Kim?

:0)

Subject: RE: Help: Foggy Dew (1916) Tune
From: Big Tim
Date: 26 Sep 02 - 03:59 AM

Fr. Charles O'Neill (1887-1963) is sometimes confused with his brother Patrick, who was also a priest, regarding authorship of FD. Charles spent all of his clerical life in the north, at Belfast, Kilcoo and Newcastle where he is buried. I don't know any more about him but the librarian referred to above sent me a photo of Fr. Charles, smiling and relaxed, in the company of De Valera and Frank Aiken (Chief of Staff IRA in 1923, later Free State government minister). This, it seems to me, would imply that the good priest was well quoted in the highest of Irish government circles.

Subject: RE: Help: Foggy Dew (1916) Tune
From: Kim C
Date: 26 Sep 02 - 10:34 AM

All right, then. I obviously had erroneous information about which O'Neill wrote the song. My mistake.

Yes, I do want more. "Traditional" and "much older" are too vague. I need a date, if one can be found.

Thanks. :-)

Subject: RE: Help: Foggy Dew (1916) Tune
From: Alice
Date: 26 Sep 02 - 11:12 AM

Kim, did you look at the threads on "Moorlough Shore" as quoted above? For history of the tune you need to read about Moorlough Shore, not Foggy Dew.

Subject: RE: Help: Foggy Dew (1916) Tune
From: Kim C
Date: 26 Sep 02 - 12:07 PM

Yes, I did, once I finally got the Super Search to work. The only dates given are for when the song was recorded, none for when it first appeared.

Subject: RE: Help: Foggy Dew (1916) Tune
From: GUEST,Chanter
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 11:21 AM

The tune used in the Foggy Dew (Moorlough shore) can also be heard in a number of other Irish/Gaelic/Celtic songs. A Breton song (recorded by Alain Stivell I think - who sings in Breton, English and possibly French) called St. Malo uses a very similar air.

Subject: RE: Help: Foggy Dew (1916) Tune
From: Big Tim
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 11:35 AM

Alain Stivell also recorded "The Foggy Dew" so maybe he borrowed the melody: love his pronunciation of "squadrons" in the song: "squiedrons"!

Subject: RE: Help: Foggy Dew (1916) Tune
From: Big Tim
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 03:49 PM

Check out Alain Stivell folks, if you haven't already.

Subject: RE: Help: Foggy Dew (1916) Tune
From: GUEST,J V M
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 07:06 AM

WHERE CAN I FIND THE SONG. I NEED IT

Subject: RE: Help: Foggy Dew (1916) Tune
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 07:23 AM

Links at top of this thread?

Subject: RE: Help: The Foggy Dew (Fr. O'Neill): tune?
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 07:29 AM

Can anyone tell me where I can get a photograph of Eamon de Valera standing with Canon Charles O'Neill and Frank Aiken?

Subject: RE: Help: The Foggy Dew (Fr. O'Neill): tune?
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 20 Sep 16 - 02:40 PM

Hi GUEST

Any reason to believe such exists? If so, your best bet is probably to check out the websites of the National Museum of Ireland and The Irish Traditional Music Archive, for openers.

Regards

Subject: RE: Help: The Foggy Dew (Fr. O'Neill): tune?
From: mayomick
Date: 21 Sep 16 - 12:01 PM

Martin, see Big Tim's post from 2 sept ."the librarian referred to above sent me a photo of Fr. Charles, smiling and relaxed, in the company of De Valera and Frank Aiken"

Subject: RE: Help: The Foggy Dew (Fr. O'Neill): tune?
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 21 Sep 16 - 01:59 PM

I believe he ended up as Canon Charles O'Neill.

Subject: RE: Help: The Foggy Dew (Fr. O'Neill): tune?
From: Lighter
Date: 26 Apr 21 - 06:36 PM

In spite of the excellence otherwise of Ken Burns's Civil War, there seems to be no record of the "O'Neill" "Foggy Dew" tune having been known in America in the 1860s.

Not that it's impossible, but rather few people would likely have been familiar with it.

Subject: RE: Help: The Foggy Dew (Fr. O'Neill): tune?
From: Lighter
Date: 26 Apr 21 - 07:05 PM

See also my post just now to this thread:

/mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=84794&messages=16