BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?

Subject: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 10:35 AM

Nowadays, it is considered important that people are aware of their cultural heritage, regardless of whether or not they are living in the country from where their culture originates. For instance: a Chinese person holding onto their chinese traditions despite the fact that he may be a 4th generation chinese person living in the West. It is an important part of multiculturalism.

However, is it so important? Should we perpetuate differences in a cosmopolitan society? Would it not make more sense to play down differences?

What does everyone think?

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 10:48 AM

I like the differences. A stew is better than a puree.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 10:49 AM

I'm not sure I understand the purpose of the question and how we are supposed to answer.    The first paragraph makes a statement that we are supposed to agree with. Well, who is saying it is important to "hold on" to old traditions?   Why does this make it an important part of multiculturism.

Perhaps the question depends on where you live. Here in the United States we have a long tradition of "multiculturism" - good and bad. I think everyone, regardless of what generation they are, has some sort of interest in their heritage - and individual traditions that they maintain.

Traditions are "living" events and customs. Traditions change with the time - they are not meant to be looked at on a shelf.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 10:51 AM

"A stew is better than a puree. "

WHAT? You make it sound as if someone needs to choose one or the other. Isn't there a time and place for both?   You can enjoy a stew and still have a need for a puree. One does not exclude the other.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: Stu
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 10:52 AM

Definitely important, as cultural heritage plays a very important part in how a person sees themselves. In a tolerant society these cultural differences add the vibrancy and depth of the community, both national and local.

Problems start when exclusivity or intolerance raise their ugly heads.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 10:53 AM

I was taught: Name it, claim it, then move beyond it. Each part of that continuum mnatters, and it doesn't always happen all at once. Each part of one's culture and life experience come up in their own time, and can be handled with this approach. The more you do it, the more you can embrace (and relate effectively to) other cultures.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: Charmion
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 10:57 AM

As a seventh-generation Canadian (starting from the Conquest), I received a thoroughly puréed cultural heritage full of bits of Burns, large lumps of Shakespeare, shreds of voyageur songs and a whole lot of Anglican church music, all liberally garnished with Yiddish-flavoured pop songs, boogie-woogie and Eric Clapton. To that, I have added rather a lot of barrack-room ballads, diddly tunes, hangin' songs and the oeuvre of Johnny Cash.

And yes, some of it is very important, but never the same stuff two days in a row.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 11:00 AM

Don't think so. My family were Dolans from Dublin crossed with Travers - a Gypsy Family from somewhere up country in Ireland. I can't recollect anyone dancing jigs round the breakfast table or getting out the pipes for a few slow airs before bedtime.

No one ever went to Ireland, evinced an interest in going back there, checked on the hurling scores, dropped the occasional 'begorra' into the conversation.

I think we became English.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 11:11 AM

The easy answer is yes, one should hold on to one's cultural identity. The hard question is to what extent one should.

For a country to remain strong, there must be some assimilation as to common language, acceptance of the national legal system, and adoption of the country's history and mores.

Within that framework, one can speak the mother tongue, wear traditional clothing eat traditional food, etc. when amongst themselves. They could also have a grounding in the history of their heritage. They can, and probably should also share those things with society at large.

However, the laws and customs of the current country should trump parochial concerns.

In the US this had been the norm until the last 30 or 40 years. There was a tension between the traditional and assimilation that served the country very well. This, sadly, seems to not be happening quite as rapidly now.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: Amos
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 11:32 AM

The things about my cultural heritage that are important are a love and respect for language, a respect for history and the hard trials of the American experiment, and the values of Jefferson. Additionally the attitudes of the best of the New England settlers, the western expansion pioneers, and the best humanist tradition of men like James. A courage and curiousity about making things better, a sense of adventure, and an interest and respect for basic humanity wherever found.

The things about my cultural heritage that I would drop in a New York second are jingoism, chauvinism, a peculiarly American brand of assertive ignorance, provincialism in political theories, trickle-down Keyesian economics, materialist psychological stunts, and an unreasoning lust for winning lucre. Also the widespread desire to bamboozle for profit, and the embrace of mindless entertainment as a substitute for individual betterment and rational thought.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 11:41 AM

There is a huge difference between culture and values. Some of the issues that Amos mentioned are not representative of the culture that ones heritage has created - they are universal.

While some cultures may have embraced certain values in the past, that does not mean it should be embraced in a different time and place.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: number 6
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 11:41 AM

Here's an interesting perspective from Simone Schmidt of the Canadian Band One Hundred Dollars ...

"The conflict in Canada is always posed as, 'We have no national identity,'" says Schmidt during a recent interview in Toronto. "People have been hooked on that for about 40 years. [But] we have to realize we do have a national identity that we don't necessarily want to embrace. There's a range of things that come up when you love a place, just like when you love a person. It's like writing a love song – you have to be critical and embrace the things you don't love in the hopes of changing them."

As per my own cultural heritage ... it has very little impact or importance on me personally, and I find it more so as I get older ... but I do appreciate the cultures of other people in my community .... if not for the exposure and exchanging of different foods, music, languages and philosophies ... the weaving of all of these differences creates a wonderful, beautiful tapestry.

All cultures change and evolve with the exposure to new and different cultures.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 11:57 AM

Ron Olesko, in any good stew you find quite a bit of puree. That's us.

As for my own culture: I was born 'white', of German/Swiss extraction and in the "old country" I no doubt would have been labelled 'peasant'.

None of that is as meaningful to me as my Amish heritage. Although I left it long ago, it formed my thinking, opened my mind and heart to embrace the contradictory facets of differing views and allowing me to be able to value both the good and the counter-productive.

As I once wrote in a song:

"A good man's not always right
Nor the bad one always wrong"

( sheesh. Don't mean to sound so moralistic.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 12:06 PM

I think we are on the same page Ebbie. Thanks for the clarification.

The Amish heritage is a good example- the roots are Swiss but the traditions and culture developed as the group developed in this country and Canada. Even among the Amish there are different cultural traditions that vary from group to group, and the heritage has influenced other cultures as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: Amos
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 12:12 PM

Some cultures raise some values to the heights of importance where others slight the same values. They are surely the skeleton of any culture, on top of which the arts, trades, ceremonies and linguistic idiosyncracies are built. So I submit that the values I mention may be universal but their particular emphasis is cultural.\

A

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 12:12 PM

That all depends to what degree it is exploited, and to which ends.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 12:26 PM

I disagree Amos. The values that you suggested are traits that individuals choose to adopt. You cannot stereotype that Americans share those cultural beliefs.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: Amos
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 12:35 PM

I was talking about the variant of culture that I considered my heritage, not that of any other American; I don't believe there is a single package you could call "American culture", nor do I think that is what the question calls for.

Many Americans share many of those values. They are part of popular sterotypes about the founding of the country, in some case, for example, and they are often embedded in the myths that get taught about Davy Crockett, Thomas Edison, Jefferson, Paine, Tesla, LEwis and Clark's crew, and other icons of the stereotype.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 12:43 PM

Fellas,

The thread asked for a colleciton of individual experiences, not a debate about the early details. Let's pause to let a few more individual views come in without distraction, huh?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 12:51 PM

The key word here in my view is identity.

I've had conversations with numerous people of numerous cultural and racial backgrounds on the whole subject and that seems to be the defining ground upon which this discussion is set.

Who somebody is is made up of a plethora of factors, including their racial/cultural/religious/national roots.

I grew up in HK but was born in Dublin and grew up in a very culturally Irish home.

I enjoy a good game of footie or rugby on the box, but when Ireland play, my blood boils, my adrenaline flows, my heart goes into overdrive and I go into a cold sweat.

At school, I was constantly reminded, often in derogatory terms, that I was Irish, and so I was defined as such externally as well as internally.

When I came back to live in Ireland, I was instantly accepted as an Irishman without any question despite my plummy colonial British accent.

Yet when I came to England, I was told I was a plastic Paddy, meaning that I liked to wear the colours and drink guinnes on St Paddy's day, but I wasn't a true Irishman.

Recently, I have discovered a new term for those whose cultural upbringing is not consistent with that of their ancestors.

3CK (third culture kid)

I am definitely one of these.

There are many of us around and often we have more in common with each other than with those from whom our cultural heritage stems.

And by that I mean that a 3CK sri lankan who has grown up in Japan will generally feel much more empathy for a frenchman who has grown up in argentina than he will for another sri lankan.

Its something to do with transcending ones prescribed cultural identity in discovering ones own cultural weaknesses in the context of growing up in a different culture.

I am Irish in my heart, but my home town is Hong Kong. I love the old songs about dublin in the rare old times, but I miss the cool evening tide in Shek O and the bustle of Wan Chai and Tsim Sha Tsui.

Both live in me and are at the centre of my identity.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 01:09 PM

similar sense of cultural displacement and unfocused,
ill-defined, identity
for so many Brit 'working class' council estate kids who passed
the 11 plus and were 'socially engineered' through grammar school and higher education..

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 01:30 PM

sorry, debate is part of my culture!!!! :)

I see your point Amos - and I agree that there is no single "American" culture.

I do have to say that some of the values that were taught to us, even if they were myths, have some validity and importance. Unfortunately there are many who take advantage and go to the extreme.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 01:40 PM

And yet there are many who say there is or should be no English culture and that they who value it are racists.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 01:42 PM

"and I agree that there is no single "American" culture."

Wouldn't the cultures of the indigenous peoples of the America's count as a single American culture??

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 01:45 PM

"Wouldn't the cultures of the indigenous peoples of the America's count as a single American culture??"

If we had a single indigenous people then it would, but we do not. The cultures of the various native American groups differ greatly.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: artbrooks
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 01:53 PM

I am a grandchild - or perhaps victim is as good a term - of the great assimilation push of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. That is, six of my eight great-grandparents were immigrants, from England (2), Germany (2), Ireland and France. (The Brooks family immigrated in the 1640s.) However, none of my grandparents grew up knowing anything in particular about the countries of their ancestry, and certainly nothing they thought worthy of being passed along to my parents (who were born in the 1920s). No language or dialect, no tidbits of culture, no food, nothing.

My wife is much better off, since her grandparents were the immigrants (one set from England and one from Russia) rather than her greats. Being one generation "newer" makes a big difference. She grew up with stories told by her greatuncle Arthur, who was supposed to have been in the orchestra on the Titanic until the last minute and by her grandmother, who spoke three languages (broken English, broken Russian and broken Yiddish). She cooks both hamentashen and Yorkshire pudding.

We tried to raise our two daughters to at least recognize that they had a cultural heritage other than American, and we do have some hopes. One has red hair and green eyes, and won a "most Irish looking" competition in Milwaukee once. She married a red-haired, blue-eyed Panamanian, and we have a 10-day-old granddaughter who will, at a minimum, be raised bilingual.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: artbrooks
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 02:00 PM

BiLL, I live in Indian Country and know rather a lot of members of various Indian nations (and yes, what they call themselves, as a lump, is usually Indians). The Pueblo people of New Mexico would deny, vociferously, that their culture resembles that of the Seminole of Florida or the Yakima of Washington, and even more so that of the native peoples of Central or South America.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 02:16 PM

I'm aware of the many cultures that make up the indigenous peoples of America .... which makes me think that many cultures are not related specifically to a country (per say) ... the same could be said for many countries ... so our cultural heritage cannot be determined or lumped into just a country.

Just something to think about here when we try to determine what makes up our cultural heritage.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 02:19 PM

To add to the mix: The indigenous peoples of Alaska also differ greatly; they have different languages, diets, different facial and bodily characteristics, different histories, myths and religions,   even different climates.

To name a few of them: the Aleuts, the Yup'ik, the Inuit, the Tsimpshian, the Tlingits, the Haida. That isn't all of them, either.

And that's not to list the many moities, tribes and clans within them.

I can't imagine how one could possibly lump all the indigenous peoples in the USA into one pot.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 02:39 PM

Yes, it's important.

The English have been made to feel that in speaking with love about their country, they are racist. I think it's a very dangerous road to go down, and to be honest, it's one that appears to have played right into the waiting arms of the BNP. It's a problem that seems to be unique to England, and it's a problem that needs to be sorted out.

Culture is constantly changing, but some things stay the same. Those things that always remain, such as history, should be taken great care of, because in losing your history, you lose your ancestors and all that went with them in making the country they lived in and loved.

But to not be allowed to feel pride for your country, other than in sport, to almost be denied being allowed to talk about it or rejoice about it, is hard, very hard. And to hear nothing but bad about your ocuntry is even worse.

As can be seen in other threads, to love England these days is now almost a crime to some people. I do not understand why.

Lovely posts from Amos and Lox by the way.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 02:49 PM

According to Stephen Pinker, "The Blank Slate", cultural traditions advance the level of education and knowledge when they interact and are not isolated geographically.

Cultural heritage is only as important as it defines your personal journey but to stay in
that and not recognize others' cultural heritages is destructive to personal growth.

The best explosions in music have been when musical cultures collide such as in jazz,
most folk music (unlike the popular conception that it is isolated), classical music and other
creative forms including rock, r and b etc.

When the palette is larger, the pictures are often richer.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 02:52 PM

"The English have been made to feel that in speaking with love about their country, they are racist. "

From the outside looking in, I don't think that is the case. I think the problem is that in your country, like in ours, there is a strong anti-immigration sentiment that comes across as racist. There is nothing wrong to love ones country, provided they do not do it an the expense of someone elses.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 02:53 PM

Well said Frank!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 02:57 PM

Is it important? Well.....somewhat. But there are a lot of things that are way more important, like the general levels of good relations you maintain with other people, for example.

Besides, if we reincarnate many times, and I think we do, then cultural heritage is just a brief and passing role that only encompasses one life. It can enrich that life, for sure, but you generally find yourself dealing with a whole new situation when the curtain rises again on a new life, so why get overly attached to any one culture?

This makes no sense at all to someone who thinks he's only here once, of course, and I wouldn't expect it to.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: Amos
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 03:32 PM

Well it is just as silly to be racially focused in defense of English culture as it is about American culture; national culture, to the degree it exists, is not about colors, but about ideas. A newly sworn in citizen of the UK from Pakistan or Somalia has as much right to be proud of the Magna Carta or the heritage of chivalry--an Anglo-French cultural stereotype--or the emotional warmth of a truly English pub, or the literary powers of CHild's Ballads or Jonson, as an American has to be proud of the core values in the Declaration. These ideas define ways of being in the world which any race of humans can enjoy assuming they understand the language inviolved.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: Big Mick
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 04:16 PM

As an Irish-American, raised with pride on the songs and stories, and from a decidely Irish Republican family, I have never found speaking of English culture to be racist. Only when the English try to impose it on others does it become racist. And that would be the same for the Europeans, and their descendants in this country that tried to impose their culture on the Native Peoples of this land. Same would hold true for the Japanese and their attempts to impose their culture on the Chinese and Koreans. In other words, culture is something to enjoy, and revel in the parts of it that lend unique customs. But when it is used as an implement to destroy another's culture, it is a wicked thing, indeed.

In the USA, the culture of the Motherland was usually held onto with passion by those for whom it was a safe place. The Irish Catholic, upon entry into the land of hopes and dreams, was often met with discrimination in housing, employment, and marriage opportunities. So they sought refuge among one another, and by holding onto customs. The African descended peoples, brought in slave ships, did the same. Over the years, these customs got watered down, or evolved, but the cultural identity remained.

It is about identity in the end. When living in a land of immigrants, that tie to something that makes you unique, and gives you worth, that is where it becomes important. Look for what you have in common, and celebrate that which is different.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 04:19 PM

Like many of you, I've been all over "this big old world".

And it is true that the Brits have a reputation for being arrogant and racist.

Often, this criticism comes from more "enlightened" european nationals in the netherlands and france amongst others.

Yet I have seen more skinhead activity on the continent than I have in the UK.

Jean Marie le Pens Front National has been a serious contender of late and he has been supported to a significant degree in France in local and national elections.

Here in the UK there is the oddd scare when the BNP wins a seat on a council, but generally, Nick Griffin is seen as a laughing stock. And that's how the Brits keep the fascists in their place - they lampoon them. So far it has been a successful approach.

I don't write any of the above in some misguided attempt to set the UK up in competition with other countries as regards their levels of racism, I do so to be fair to the Brits who have in my opinion grown up more than any other european country with the exception of germany when it comes to racist ideologies.

Britain had its culture shock when the Windrush arrived in 1948, bringing with it a new community of West Indian immigrants.

It had another in 1972 when Idi Amin exported 70,000 Asians from Uganda and many came to England.

The Brits reacted badly a first and made their guests feel very unwelcome to begin with, but now in 2008(9), attitudes are very different.

An employer will choose someone with an Irish accent to man the phones over someone with an english accent whereas in the 60's and 70's, an Irish accent was a definite hindrance.

In fact the stereotype of the educated Irishperson (lets be honest - woman) is about as contrasted nowadays as it could be from the old stereotype of the drunken brawling thicko that "need not apply" of the old days.

Since Ireland started to make a bit of cash and became a net contributor to the EU, it has had to open its doors to refugees and other new immigrants, something it was allowed to avoid when it was a poor country.

And as it has happened, Irelands holier than though "I'm on the side of the under dog" attitude has been shown to be a bit weak in substance in the face of increased immigration, with relatives of mine coming out with Alf Garnetisms galore, such as "they bring their crime with them" and "they're lazy" etc.

I have witnessed intimidation of people with dark skin by skinheads in the supposed liberal capital of the world, Amsterdam and encountered a surprising amount of racism in peoples attitudes there.

One of the things about being Irish in Europe is that people automatically assume that you're a nice guy, fun, honest and have a big heart. People feel they can be open with you because you just understand.

As a result of this I have had it 'reasonably' explained to me (cos I'd understand of course) why you can't trust an Englishman. Sometimes this has happened while I have been with an English friend and I have had to labour to demonstrate that "he's ok" and then to prise that chink open a bit further to make the point that the English are all human, not just my friend.

The Brits have a history ... just like everyone has a history ...

but they aren't any more racist than anyone else, and institutionally they are a great deal less so than many other nations.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: Amos
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 04:26 PM

Part of cultural convictions, instilled from birth in defiance of all subsequent evidence, is that all those who came to these shores after the AMerican Revolution came under the umbrella of a common sense of unification even while reserving to their own families and groups the cultural heritage of their antecedents--whether Irish, Italian, Armenian, Polish, Jewish, Puerto Rican, Spanish, French or Ugandan. I am naively canalized into this inherent optimism about America despite all the best efforts of others to disabuse me.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: skipy
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 04:38 PM

Yet again someone complaining about the BNP! Have you taken the time to read their manifesto? Or do you prefer to read what the comics say about them!
Our (now lost) culture IS VERY important but now history! Soon it will be illegal to sing or play folk songs or folk music because it may offend. Trust me IT IS COMING!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 04:52 PM

Skipy,

want to see Nick Griffin (current head of the BNP) deny the holocaust?

look here.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 05:01 PM

From Amos:

"Well it is just as silly to be racially focused in defense of English culture as it is about American culture; national culture, to the degree it exists, is not about colors, but about ideas. A newly sworn in citizen of the UK from Pakistan or Somalia has as much right to be proud of the Magna Carta or the heritage of chivalry--an Anglo-French cultural stereotype--or the emotional warmth of a truly English pub, or the literary powers of CHild's Ballads or Jonson, as an American has to be proud of the core values in the Declaration. These ideas define ways of being in the world which any race of humans can enjoy assuming they understand the language inviolved."

Yes! YES!!   

Beautifully put, Amos (Heck, I wish I could write like you!) :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 05:01 PM

here he is saying he'd personally love to put gays and lesbians "back in the closet"

blue clicky

not in the manifesto either no?

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 05:08 PM

"Yet again someone complaining about the BNP! Have you taken the time to read their manifesto?"

Yes indeed. A scary bunch you have there. Put sheets on their heads and you will see what the KKK was like during the 20's and 30's.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 05:30 PM

"Yet again someone complaining about the BNP!"

Not enough complain about them. I've had them over on my myspace page about England, and believe you me, we've crossed swords over issues. They get packed off with a verbal boot up the backside from me, and boy, they don't like that! A nastier bunch of thugs you'd not wish to meet anywhere...and they have taken over the flag of my country!    Time to take it back.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 05:49 PM

Interesting to see some here accept that the English may have and cherish a cultural heritage. Now go above the line and see what is being said there.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: skipy
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 05:54 PM

LOX, thanks for pointing that one out, I had not seen it before & I am horrified!
The stuff that I have read is the recent stuff, not the 11 & 12 year items.
BUT, what a prick to have said what he did!
Skipy
Not a supporter by the way, just I have bothered to read what they have had to say in the last year.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 06:02 PM

Fair enough skipy.

Credit where credit is due, at least you were basing your judgemant on the available information and not just spouting your own pro or anti BNP agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 06:07 PM

Lizzie,

"and they have taken over the flag of my country!"

I like to think that they occupy a little comedy corner of it - David Walliams springs to mind ...

Did you ever see the the party political broadcast which ended up with Griffin walking past the front of a spitfire, his face full of nervous ticks? He couldn't stop blinking and his grimacing attempt at a smile was truly a sight to behold. As for his self conscious silly walk ... truly a candidate for that ministry!

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: number 6
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 06:41 PM

"It is about identity in the end. When living in a land of immigrants, that tie to something that makes you unique, and gives you worth, that is where it becomes important. Look for what you have in common, and celebrate that which is different."

well said Mick ... well said !


biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Your cultural heritage- is it important?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 06:58 PM

Top right-hand corner:

Show of Hands - 'Exile'


Best thing you can do with Nick Griffin, lox, is wrap him up in the Nazi flag and post him to Panama. Give all his followers free passage there too, well worth it. One way tickets only of course. Then, we can dust down the English flag again, take it back from the football 'ooligans, and the "Ing..er...land!" brigade, shine it up and make it stand for one of the fairest and most welcoming nations in the world.

Hey, I went into Sidmouth Police Station last week, and there, taking up the whole of the front part of the main desk was a huge sign telling you to point to your own language and an interpreter would be called for you. There were 31 diffferent languages there, including English. :0)