BS: Another war in the Middle East?

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: C. Ham
Date: 06 Jun 07 - 09:18 PM

Peace,

Whether or not Amotz Asa-El posted the article himself, it is definitely his article.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: Peace
Date: 06 Jun 07 - 10:59 PM

True enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 01:02 AM

End the occupation! Get those paramilitay Zionist thugs out of the West Bank.

It's not Israeli land and never was .
FREE PALESTINE!
Stop the attack on Gaza and stop making war on its civilian population.

Dismantle the Apartheid Wall.

With justice there is a chance for peace but with the oppression there will only be further conflict stoked up for future generations.

ifor
ps I have just found out that of the 10 Palestinian members of the Israeli Knesset...9 have been assaulted by security forces and 7 hospitalised during the past few years.These people are Israeli citizens but it is atatse of what is to come as Israel readies itself for more ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 09:43 AM

So, I take it your answer is no. Fuck you, then!

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 10:07 AM

I figured I'd post this before idiot blames the Israelis:

"By Xinhua. Gaza Strip, Palestinian Territories, 05:01 PM IST


A Fatah-affiliated man was killed Thursday morning in clashes with members of rival Hamas movement in the southern Gaza Strip, security sources and a medic said.

The street battles killed Wael Wahbi, 27 and injured nine others including three children, said the medical source, adding that at least two have sustained serious wounds.

A Hamas website quoted sources from the Islamic movement as saying that a group of Hamas fighters came under fire in Rafah, a town in southern Gaza strip and the gunmen 'responded to the fire's source.'

'The shooting has led to the death of Wahbi,' the unidentified sources told Palestinian Media Network of Hamas.

The clashes were the first since an Egyptian-brokered ceasefire reached by the two rival movements on May 19.

Thursday's clash came at the time when various Palestinian factions, including Fatah and Hamas, flocked to Cairo for talks about reinforcing the two-week-old ceasefire.

Last month, Hamas and Fatah fought each other in the deadliest clashes since they formed a unity government in March. More than 52 Palestinians were killed."

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: bobad
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 10:28 AM

Israel has told Syria it is willing to trade land for peace and is waiting to hear whether President Bashar Assad would cut ties with Iran and hostile guerilla groups in return.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/09/wmid109.xml

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 12:19 PM

The Golan Heights? Now that is a step in the right direction. I wonder what the residents think about that?

"Were Syria to abandon its Shia allies in Lebanon and Iran in exchange for peace with the Jewish state, it would seriously weaken Israel's most potent foes." (From the article linked by bobad)

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: C. Ham
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 01:04 PM

Hopefully, we'll see President Bashar Assad assume the same kind of courage -- the courage to make peace -- that President Anwar Sadat of Egypt and King Hussein of Jordan eventually assumed.

A courage that Yasir Arafat feigned on the lawn of the White House on September 13, 1993 but ultimately rejected.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: GUEST,al
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 01:30 AM

Israel want peace ,of course it does,but on its terms...which is dominance of its neghbours and a subservient Palestinian population which will agree to its transfer out of Israeli occupied territories on the one hand or a sevile and compliant existence in chopped up "bantustan" holdings on the other.
I dont think it is going to happen.Last summer the Israeli army had a bloody nose in Lebanon and in Gaza the strangle hold and military attacks have not subdued the million plus population.
AL

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 10:41 AM

Al, old chum,


Palestinians want peace, of course- as long as they get total control of the area that is now Israel, in addition to the Moslem Palestinian homeland of Jordan (where Jews are NOT allowed to be citizens, or settle). They won't really be happy unless they kill all the Jews, too. I don't think it is going to happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: Peace
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 02:56 PM

"The army says the militants triggered the conflict on May 20 by attacking its positions around the camp and on the outskirts of the nearby city of Tripoli."

So it isn't just the Israelis who get fed up with that crap. Good to know.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: GUEST,al
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 02:29 AM

Amazing how the Lebanese army did next to nothing when Israel invaded last summer more or less destroying the country but has stirred itself on the orders of the govt to attack a small fundamentalist group which originally had strong links to the govt.
al

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 03:34 AM

40 years ago the Israelis recovered Jewish territory and defended their homeland successfully.

They had no other option.

After the successful defense of their homeland, they offered peace to their bellicose neighbors. They were spurned by the humiliated opponents who were resupplied by their Soviet mentors.

The Arabs began to think in terms of peace when their almost successful invasion of Israel (The Yom Kippur war of 1973) allowed them to salvage their bruised war egos.

Egypt got all their land back when they made peace. For some reason, they didn't want the so-called Palestinians.

Lebanon has been destabilized more than once by so-called Palestinian people.

Due to the attitudes of the people themselves, there is no motivation for Israel to take on this unequal burden.

Jordan has effectively been turned into a Palestinian State and should take on most of the rest of the displaced unhappy people.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: GUEST,albert
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 12:47 PM

Excuse me...recovered "Jewish territory".?at the start of the 20th century the Jewish population of what is now Israel was less than 10 percent of the population.The IDF went in and took control of land and farms and towns and cities that were not Israeli and not exclusively Jewish.There were and are "occupied territories".The Israeli govt has allowed the settlment of these lands by gun totin right wing Zionist paramilitaries who have terrorised the Palestinian people of those lands ever since. Most of these Zionist groups came from the USA or Russia.
albert

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 03:37 PM

Robomatic,

"In 1923 the British "chopped off" 75% of the proposed Jewish Palestinian homeland to form an Arab Palestinian Nation of "Trans-Jordan," meaning "across the Jordan River." The Palestinian Arabs now had THEIR homeland... the remaining 25% of the original Palestinian territory (west of the Jordan River) was to be the Jewish Palestinian homeland."

http://www.unitedjerusalem.com/Graphics/Maps/PartitionforTransJordan.asp

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 05:04 PM

guest, albert

what's your point?

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: GUEST,albert
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 05:22 PM

In answer to your question Robomatic.....
The state of Israel was founded on the wholesale ethnic cleansing of the indiginous Palestinians.
This was not an empty land as so often claimed by Zionists. This was a land lived in for hundreds and thousands of years by its Palestinian population .They lived in towns and cities ,farms and villages.
They have been made into refugees,exiles or now live under the Israeli gun and baton in the occupied territories or in besieged Gaza.
Here is the crux of the problem.The Palestinians have been robbed of their lands and homes but will not surrender to a half life in the bantustans planned for them by the Israelis. But the Israelis also have problems.They now live in one of the most militarised and yet dangerous countries in the world.And the Palestinian population in Israel itself and in the occupied territories, is growing-fast.What next? The expulsion of Israeli arabs/Palestinians out of Israel and into exile...a recipe for more conflict.
And meanwhile nuclear armed Israel is led by a corrupt and venal clique of failed right wing politicians who have nothing to offer but more invasions and more bombs.Yet the Israeli army took a bloody nose in the hills of Lebanon last year.
A change is gonna come!
Albert

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 05:29 PM

Hamas is taking control of Palestinian schools

POSTED: 4:10 p.m. EDT, June 11, 2007

Hamas will control Palestinian Education Ministry for three more years
Hamas has begun taking control of schools and making changes
Some Palestinians say Hamas' goal is to shape political views of students
Hamas leaders insist they are not trying to indoctrinate children

KUFR NAMEH, West Bank (AP) Palestinian children spend more of their school day studying Islam. Critical jobs in public education are filled by Islamic stalwarts. A once-banned social studies reader, crammed with hard-line rhetoric, is now in classrooms.

During a year in power, the Islamic Hamas movement has begun taking control of Palestinian schools and is making changes.

Hamas leaders insist they are not trying to indoctrinate children. But moderate Palestinians say Hamas' goal is nothing less than shaping the political views of future generations.

It's a battle for the Palestinian soul, part of a wider Hamas campaign to expand its influence in all spheres of public life, also including newspapers to unions, said Hanan Ashrawi, a secular former minister of higher education.

"You are seeing the gradual transformation of a largely secular national ... education system and curriculum into a more ideological, closed system," said Ashrawi.

Hamas shares power with the moderate Fatah movement it defeated in last year's election, and the terms of that coalition will keep it in control of the Education Ministry for three more years.

Hamas doesn't have completely free rein in the schools. It's being scrutinized by Fatah and by the largely secular Palestinian intelligentsia. Ashrawi, now an independent legislator, says she has asked Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, a moderate who heads Fatah, to hand control of the curriculum to an independent commission of experts, but has gotten no commitment.

"We are not making education more Islamic," Education Minister Nasser Shaer said before he was arrested by Israel in an anti-Hamas sweep last month. But he is also under pressure within his movement to apply a clearly Islamic, non-Western curriculum. For example: Hamas firebrands want to eliminate U.S. history from a textbook.

So far, Shaer has made only a few changes. He has increased religion classes from three to four a week and allowed a social studies reader with a strong Islamic bent to be used in the classroom.

He has focused mostly on moving Hamas loyalists into key positions in the education system, presumably preparing the ground for tighter control in the future.

(more)

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 05:31 PM

When a high-level education job opens up, it goes to a Hamas supporter, with appointees often leapfrogging over other candidates with stronger credentials. Eight of 14 West Bank school districts are now controlled by Hamas, from none a year ago, and the new religion requirement meant hiring some 300 graduates of Islamic teachers' colleges that are Hamas strongholds, Fatah educators say.

Hamas created another power base in education by forming its own teachers' union to compete with the one controlled by Fatah. It claims to have signed up some 18,000 teachers, including those in private schools, but also many of the 40,000 teaching in public schools in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

Hamas teachers, many sporting the movement's trademark beards, recently marched through Ramallah, chanting, "Let's restore glory to religion and dignity to the teacher."

In some cases, girls are pushed by pro-Hamas teachers to pray and wear head scarves, although no law requires it. Hala Barghouti, 11, from the village of Deir Yassin, said she is transferring from a public school to a private Christian one next year to escape the nagging.

Political tension inside the schools is rising, others say.

Tenth-grader Sumara Awaiseh, a Fatah supporter in a Ramallah school, said he gets into fights with pro-Hamas classmates. "They'll chant something against Fatah and that's how fights get started," he said.

While Fatah supports a Palestinian state alongside Israel, Hamas refuses to recognize the Jewish state and renounce violence.

One of Hamas' first acts after taking control was to lift a ban on private teaching materials, including one that adopts a tough Islamic approach to the conflict with Israel.

That booklet was written by al-Buraq, a Hamas-allied education center shut down by Israel several months ago. The preface says it seeks to "emphasize the Arab and Islamic identity" of the Palestinians, highlight the "brutality of the occupier" and "to create the energy to get rid of all types of occupation."

During the second Palestinian uprising, it says, American cease-fire initiatives "ignored the political rights of the Palestinian people and did not recognize the Palestinian people's right to resistance to regain its rights." In contrast, the draft of a textbook for grades 8-10 on modern Palestinian history, written when Fatah controlled the schools, is a largely matter-of-fact description of events. Fatah educators claim Hamas held up its printing because it's too neutral. Hamas denies it.

Shaer, while removing the ban, hasn't explicitly recommended the al-Buraq booklet to the students - to the disappointment of the Islamic center which had presumed it now had a sympathetic ear in the ministry. And some Hamas ideologues are getting impatient with the slow pace of change.

"We want to implement the Palestinian dimension, and the Islamic and Arabic dimension," said Hamas legislator Sheik Hamed Bitawi. "Anything that comes in conflict with our Islamic ideology should be taken out."

(more)

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 05:40 PM

Last summer, Bitawi and other Hamas members of parliament's Education Committee demanded that a chapter on American history be removed from a 12th grade textbook, arguing that the U. S. is an enemy of the Palestinians and that students should instead learn about Japan and other nations they deemed more supportive.

The proposal never got far - sidetracked in part because most Hamas legislators were rounded up by Israel after last summer's capture of an Israeli soldier by Hamas-allied militants in Gaza. Bitawi was also arrested in last month's Israeli sweep, along with more than 30 senior Hamas officials.

(paragraph removed so it would post to thread)

Outside approval is important because Palestinian public schools depend on foreign aid. Before international sanctions were imposed last year in an effort to force Hamas to recognize Israel's existence, public schools received more than $350 million over a decade, most of it for building new classrooms.

Any attempt to radically change the textbooks would likely create an uproar and undermine the government's efforts to portray itself as politically moderate and restore foreign aid.

Where Hamas has been most aggressive is in replacing senior Fatah-allied educators with Hamas loyalists.

Fatah supporters old enough to retire were sent home. Others kept their jobs, but were stripped of their authority. Fatah's Jihad Zakarneh, who had been in charge of hiring teachers in the West Bank, had his signing powers revoked. In Gaza City, a senior Fatah loyalist, speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of repercussions, said he now spends his day in the ministry reading newspapers.

In the West Bank city of Hebron, the Fatah-affiliated deputy chief of the local school district, Nisrine Amr, sued Education Minister Shaer after he named a private Islamic school principal as her boss. When the new boss in turn was arrested by Israeli troops two months ago, another Hamas-allied educator was brought in as a temporary replacement, rather than allowing Amr to step in, as protocol would have suggested.

" They didn't even give us a chance to run it (the district) for one day because we are not of their political persuasion," said Amr.

The Education Ministry denied it is hiring teachers and administrators based on their politics, but said that Shaer, like any politician, had the right to surround himself with trusted staffers.

" In the recruitment policy, the changes were very slight," said ministry spokesman Basri Saleh. "There is nothing about marginalizing that team of people or giving an advantage to this team of people."

However, Hamas' rivals fear the Islamic movement has plenty of time to overhaul the system, slowly.

Azzam Al-Ahmed, the deputy prime minister from Fatah, said Hamas " tries and keeps trying" to change education. " If they continue in power for a long time, they will succeed," he said.

Computer teacher Riham Diek says she already feels the shift.

" As a mother, I am very afraid for my children," said Diek, whose 14-year-old daughter Naheel is being hounded by pro-Hamas teachers in her West Bank village of Kufr Nameh to trade her jeans and denim jacket for a head scarf and robe.

" We want a generation that is able to deal with the rules of freedom and democracy," she said.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 05:40 PM

(attempt to post missing paragraph)

Palestinian textbooks, written in stages over the past seven years to replace Egyptian and Jordanian imports, are under intense Israeli and international scrutiny for possible anti -Israel incitement. For example, an Israeli watchdog group complained recently that the Holocaust is not taught in a high school history book.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 05:45 PM

Al,

YOU state "The Palestinians have been robbed of their lands and homes "

I am STILL waiting for the answers to my questions:

HOW MANY Jews are presently living in JORDAN - the Palestinian Moslem Homeland)?

HOW many Moslems are living in Israel?


BTW, what about the GREATER number of Jews driven out of the Arab nations?

Or do you insist that Arab Jews are not supposed to have the "rights" that YOU have demanded for the Palestinian Arabs?


In addition, can you please tell me how your comments relate to the present attacks on Palestinian camps by the Lebanese Army? THAT is the topic of the thread- LEBONESE MOSLEMS KILLING PALESTINIANS BECAUSE THE PALESTINIANS ARE ACTING TOWARD THE LEBONESE LIKE THEY DO TOWARDS THE ISRAELIS.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 07:07 PM

Guest "Ifor " ---- I do not know whether or not Mossad still exists in its old form, but if I were you, I would be rather hoping that A) it doesn"t , and B) if it does, I hope they don"t monitor Mudcat !!
   Meanwhile, may I just say that, if the worst came to the worst, and the proverbial chips were really down, then, despite being a Gentile, I would probably feel compelled to go to Israel to help out in whatever way I could-----would you do the same for your Arab friends ??? I fancy not !! Perhaps you could turn your undoubted talents to restoring to the Cheyenne, the Sioux, the Arapahoe, et al , their country ?? ( It"s called the USA, by the way ).
    Shalom
                Roger......

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 07:10 PM

"The state of Israel was founded on the wholesale ethnic cleansing of the indiginous Palestinians."

No offense, "Al", but that's as close to pure horseshit as anything you've said so far.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 08:11 PM

Funny thing that, you know what Bubblyrat just said. I'd go along with that, sort of like all those people who went to fight against Franco in the Spanish Civil War.

Hallo there Guest ifor and Guest al !!! Take a bloody good look at the Middle-East from 1948 to present day. As the common-or-garden-man-in-the-street under whose regime would you have prospered?

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 02:52 AM

"Or do you insist that Arab Jews are not supposed to have the "rights" that YOU have demanded for the Palestinian Arabs?"

Do Moslems in Israel enjoy the same rights as Jews in Israel?

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 03:10 AM

"Do Moslems in Israel enjoy the same rights as Jews in Israel?"

As Israeli citizens yes they do. They also share the same responsibilities with the exception that if the muslim happens to be an Arab he is not required to do military service, compulsory for all other Israeli citizens.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 01:08 PM

dianavan,

An equivalent question to mine, considering the original statements I was responding to, would be:

Do Jews in ARAB nations enjoy the same rights as Moslems in Israel?

Would you care to anwer that? Remember, it is ILLEGAL to be Jewish and reside, even as a non-citizen, in Jordan ( The PALESTINIAN Moslem Homeland) or Saudi Arabia. Let me know what you find out about the other Arab nations.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 01:52 PM

And now, BACK to the thread topic... MOSLEMS killing MOSLEMS


Hamas Attacks Fatah Security HQ in Gaza

AP - Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:11:20 -0400 (EDT)
By DIAA HADID

Hamas gunmen attacked the headquarters of Fatah-allied forces in northern Gaza with mortars and grenades Tuesday and captured several smaller positions in what Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah alleged was a coup attempt by the Islamic militants.

More than 80 people have been killed since mid-May, most of them militants, including two on Tuesday.

Security commanders loyal to Abbas complained they were not given clear orders to fight back at a time when Hamas appeared to be moving forward according to a plan.

Abbas' Fatah movement was to meet later in the day to decide whether to pull out of his shaky coalition with Hamas. Calls by Abbas and exasperated Egyptian mediators for a cease-fire went unheeded.

Instead, Hamas and Fatah militants threatened to kill each other's leaders. In Gaza, a rocket-propelled grenade damaged the home of Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas but caused no injuries in what Hamas said was an attempted assassination. In the West Bank, Fatah gunmen kidnapped a deputy Cabinet minister from Hamas.

Heavy gunbattles erupted in several locations in Gaza.

Some 200 Hamas fighters surrounded the headquarters of Fatah-allied forces in northern Gaza, a key prize for Hamas. The attackers fired mortar shells and RPGs at the compound, where some 500 security officers were holed up.

"They are attacking from all sides," said one of the officers, Khaled Awad.

Hamas gunmen also exchanged fire with Fatah forces at the southern security headquarters in the southern town of Khan Younis, but had not yet launched a major assault. The town's streets were empty as people huddled indoors.

Col. Nasser Khaldi, a Fatah commander in southern Gaza, confirmed his men were on the defensive. Khaldi said Abbas, the leader of Fatah, must give orders now to fight back.

"There is a weakness of our leaders," he said. "Hamas is just taking over our positions. There are no orders."

Heavy gunfire was heard throughout Gaza City, and a huge plume of white smoke rose into the air. One battle took place around the headquarters of the Preventive Security agency -- a powerful pro-Fatah force.

Pro-Fatah forces attacked the Hamas-run Al-Aqsa TV and radio stations in Gaza City after security officials said they received orders to stop the broadcasts. Shortly after the attack, they started broadcasting pro-Fatah songs, a sign the security forces had taken control.

Hamas and Fatah have been locked in a violent power struggle since Hamas defeated Fatah in January 2006 legislative elections, ending four decades of Fatah rule.

The sides agreed to share power in an uneasy coalition three months ago, but put off key disputes, including control of the security forces. Most are dominated by Fatah loyalists, while Hamas has formed its own militia, in addition to the thousands of gunmen at its command.

Two days of fighting has left 18 Palestinians dead, including two Tuesday, in violence that has grown increasingly brutal. Some people were shot execution-style or hit in shootouts that turned hospitals into battle grounds, while others were thrown from rooftops. Residents huddled indoors, and university exams were canceled.

The head of the Egyptian mediation team, Lt. Col. Burhan Hamad, said neither side responded to his call to hold truce talks. "It seems they don't want to come. We must make them ashamed of themselves. They have killed all hope. They have killed the future," said Hamad, who brokered several previous short-lived cease-fires.

Hamad said both sides were about equal in firepower. "Neither can have a decisive victory," he said. "To be decisive, they need weapons that neither side has."

A gunbattle erupted at the European Hospital in Khan Younis when Hamas militants controlling the rooftop traded fire with Fatah-allied security forces. Fifteen children attending a kindergarten in the line of fire were rushed into the hospital.

The RPG that hit Haniyeh's home in the Shati refugee camp on the outskirts of Gaza City struck the side of the house while the family was inside, said his son, Abdel Salam. A Hamas Web site described the incident as an assassination attempt by Fatah. "They crossed all the red lines," said Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum.

Elsewhere, a member of the Hamas military wing was kidnapped and killed by Fatah gunmen. He was identified as a cousin of Abdel Aziz Rantisi, a Hamas leader who was assassinated by Israel in 2004.

Separately, Hamas gunmen attacked the home of a senior Fatah security official with mortars and grenades, killing his 14-year-old son and three women inside, security officials said. Other Fatah gunmen stormed the house of a Hamas lawmaker and burned it down.

The fighting also spilled into the West Bank, with Palestinian security forces seizing two employees of the Hamas-linked Al-Aqsa TV station in Ramallah. Fatah gunmen said Hamas leaders in the West Bank, a Fatah stronghold, would be targeted if Hamas doesn't halt its attacks in Gaza.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 03:56 PM

Hamas captures Fatah security HQ in Gaza

By DIAA HADID, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 3 minutes ago



GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Hamas gunmen captured the headquarters of the       Fatah-allied security forces in northern Gaza, seizing control of a key prize in the bloody power struggle between the sides, Hamas and Fatah officials said.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah said Tuesday's fighting amounted to a coup attempt by the Islamic militants.

Hamas attacked the compound with mortars and automatic gunfire, and after several hours of battle, seized control, said Hamas commander Wael al-Shakra. A Fatah security official confirmed the building had been lost. He said at least 10 people were killed and 30 wounded.

Security commanders loyal to Abbas complained they were not given clear orders to fight back at a time when Hamas appeared to be moving forward according to a plan.

Abbas' Fatah movement was to meet later in the day to decide whether to pull out of his shaky coalition with Hamas. Calls by Abbas and exasperated Egyptian mediators for a cease-fire went unheeded.

Instead, Hamas and Fatah militants threatened to kill each other's leaders. In Gaza, a rocket-propelled grenade damaged the home of Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas but caused no injuries in what Hamas said was an attempted assassination. In the       West Bank, Fatah gunmen kidnapped a deputy Cabinet minister from Hamas.

Hamas gunmen also exchanged fire with Fatah forces at the southern security headquarters in the southern town of Khan Younis, but had not yet launched a major assault. The town's streets were empty as people huddled indoors.

Col. Nasser Khaldi, a Fatah commander in southern Gaza, confirmed his men were on the defensive. Khaldi said Abbas, the leader of Fatah, must give orders now to fight back.

"There is a weakness of our leaders," he said. "Hamas is just taking over our positions. There are no orders."

Pro-Fatah forces attacked the Hamas-run Al-Aqsa TV and radio stations in Gaza City after security officials said they received orders to stop the broadcasts. Shortly after the attack, they started broadcasting pro-Fatah songs, a sign the security forces had taken control.

Hamas and Fatah have been locked in a violent power struggle since Hamas defeated Fatah in January 2006 legislative elections, ending four decades of Fatah rule.

The sides agreed to share power in an uneasy coalition three months ago, but put off key disputes, including control of the security forces. Most are dominated by Fatah loyalists, while Hamas has formed its own militia, in addition to the thousands of gunmen at its command.

The infighting has grown increasingly brutal. Some of those killed were shot execution-style or hit in shootouts that turned hospitals into battle grounds, while others were thrown from rooftops. Residents huddled indoors, and university exams were canceled.

The head of the Egyptian mediation team, Lt. Col. Burhan Hamad, said neither side responded to his call to hold truce talks. "It seems they don't want to come. We must make them ashamed of themselves. They have killed all hope. They have killed the future," said Hamad, who brokered several previous short-lived cease-fires.

Hamad said both sides were about equal in firepower. "Neither can have a decisive victory," he said. "To be decisive, they need weapons that neither side has."

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 04:11 AM

How ordinary "Palestinians" must despair. For all the high blown rhetoric and empty promises of Syria and Iran and their own leaders, whether they be tribal, religious or elected. When on earth are they going to actually get a leadership that will put the best interests of the people before all else.

The path of the posturing Jihadists and Fedahyeen follows a well beaten path:
1) Empty public displays of over excited Edjits chanting at the tops of their voices like morons and emptying their AK47's magazine after magazine into the air (Where the hell do all those bullets go??).

2) Empty promises of action against the ........... (fill in whatever, foreign invader/infidel/zionist).

3) After rather ineffectual attempts at step 2 in which they come off decidedly second best. They then turn against their own (It's happened time, after time, after time).

When are the "Palestinian" people going to realise that these clowns are taking them nowhere.

Some suggestions for future reference for any refugee camp set up in the area:

1) Should be under strict UN control (No "No-Go Areas" allowed within the camp).

2) Laws of the host country should apply within the camp.

3) Absolutely no arms permitted.

4) Political activity restricted to matters relating to interface between those running the camp and those living in it.

5) Commitment to integrate refugees into the society of the host nation.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 03:00 PM

Hamas pounds main Fatah security posts

By DIAA HADID, Associated Press Writer
36 minutes ago



GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Hamas pounded Gaza City's three main security compounds and President Mahmoud Abbas' headquarters with mortars, grenades and assault rifles Wednesday, calling on beleaguered       Fatah forces to surrender in an apparent attempt to take control of the entire       Gaza Strip.

In one dramatic victory, hundreds of members of a Fatah-allied clan that had fought fiercely surrendered to masked Hamas gunmen. They were led — arms raised in the air — to a nearby mosque.

Fatah fighters desperately tried to cling to their positions, but appeared outgunned by Hamas. One of the battles raged around the headquarters of the Fatah-allied Preventive Security, with both sides firing wildly from high-rise rooftops.

Violence between the factions, which nominally share power in the Palestinian government, has rapidly spiraled toward all-out civil war.

Dr. Wael Abdel Jawad, a physician trapped in his apartment in the line of fire, said he heard Fatah fighters shouting at colleagues on an adjacent roof to send them more ammunition.

"All of us are terrified here. Shooting came through the windows of our apartment, children are screaming. We are hearing from a nearby mosque the call by Hamas to surrender," he said.

Fatah's leader, Abbas, who is in the       West Bank, called the fighting "madness," but his appeals for a cease-fire rang increasingly hollow as Hamas gunmen took over or destroyed one base or another of his security forces. Later, his office and residential compound in Gaza came under attack, with Hamas fighters firing at Fatah forces guarding an access road.

Hamas has ignored calls for a cease-fire, and its hard-liners said the offensive would continue.

The State Department denounced the violence as a direct attack by the most radical elements of Hamas on legitimate Palestinian authorities. Spokesman Sean McCormack said Washington had no indication that       Israel might intervene to try to stop the infighting.

Hamas moved systematically throughout the day, taking control of key Fatah positions. Fatah commanders complained they were not given clear orders by Abbas to fight back and that they had no central command. Fatah's strongman in Gaza, Mohammed Dahlan, has spent the last few weeks in Cairo for treatment of a knee injury.

At least 15 people were killed Wednesday, bringing the death toll in the four-day campaign to more than 50.

Among those killed Wednesday was a man who joined a nonviolent protest of the fighting in Gaza City. Also shot dead were two women from the Fatah-allied Bakr clan whose members had surrendered to Hamas. According to a clan member, the women tried to leave the area after the surrender to take a sick girl to a hospital and were shot on the street by jittery Hamas gunmen.

Hamas attacked the three main compounds of Fatah-allied forces in Gaza City — the headquarters of the Preventive Security, the Intelligence Service and the National Forces — in what could usher in the final phase of the battle.

The fighters, firing rockets and mortar shells, took over the rooftops in nearby houses and cut off the roads to prevent Fatah reinforcements from arriving.

Hamas gunmen in high-rise buildings also fired at Abbas' Gaza office and house and his guard force returned fire. Abbas was in the West Bank at the time.

Earlier, Hamas militants surrounded a security headquarters in the southern Gaza town of Khan Younis and ordered everyone inside to leave or they would blow the building up, witnesses said. The building was then destroyed by a bomb planted in a tunnel beneath it, said Ali Qaisi, a presidential guard spokesman.

Security forces later said they lost control of the town.

"Khan Younis is finished, but we are still holding on in Rafah," said Ziad Sarafandi, a senior security official, referring to a town south of Khan Younis. But soon after, Hamas militants blew up a second security building near Rafah after a long gunbattle, said Col. Nasser Khaldi, a senior police official.

"Hamas surrounded the building, they had come from Khan Younis to Rafah, they are working by plan," he said.

The Popular Resistance Committees, a militant group allied with Hamas, said it had taken control of Gaza's border with Egypt to prevent arms smuggling and to ensure that Gaze residents did not flee over the border.

Shops in Gaza City were closed, and streets were mostly empty as terrified residents huddled in homes. The U.N. Relief and Works Agency said it couldn't distribute food to the 30 percent of the Gaza Strip that relies on international aid.

The agency's Gaza director, John Ging, said the agency would curtail its operations after two of its Palestinian workers were killed by crossfire, but insisted, "We are scaling back, we are not pulling back."

Hamas and Fatah have waged a sporadic power struggle since Hamas won parliament elections last year, ending four decades of Fatah rule. But the battles have worsened as Hamas waged a systematic assault on security forces to take over Gaza.

Fighting between the two factions, which nominally share power in the Palestinian government, spilled into the Fatah-dominated West Bank. Militants exchanged fire in the city of Nablus and a nearby refugee camp, after Fatah gunmen tried to storm a pro-Hamas TV production company. Hamas said 12 people of its fighters were wounded.

Abbas appealed by phone to Hamas' exiled leader in       Syria, Khaled Mashaal, to end the violence.

Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri, said the clashes could have been avoided if Abbas had given the Hamas-led Cabinet control over the security forces, which he blamed for a wave of kidnappings, torture and violence in Gaza.

"The president bears complete responsibility for the current crisis," he said.

The mounting bloodshed touched off protests in two main Gaza towns.

Several hundred tribal leaders, women, children and Islamic Jihad militants turned out in Gaza City for a protest initiated by Egyptian mediators. Some demonstrators scattered after masked Hamas gunmen fired in the air, but others pushed on, carrying Palestinian flags and shouting, "Do not shoot" and "national unity" over a loudspeaker.

Witnesses said Hamas gunmen shot at the protesters as they approached the home of Fatah loyalists, trapping them.

Protester Bilal Qurashali said he saw a man shot in the head. "We are unable to get out. The place is closed," he said.

Health officials said one protester was killed and 14 others were injured by bullets and brought to the hospital in civilian cars because ambulances couldn't navigate the heavy fire.

Separately, Hamas gunmen opened fire from a high-rise building at about 1,000 protesters in Khan Younis, injuring one and breaking up the protest.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 03:02 PM

Explosion kills lawmaker in Beirut

By BASSEM MROUE, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 59 minutes ago



BEIRUT, Lebanon - An explosion rocked Beirut's popular sea-front area Wednesday, killing at least 10 people, including a vocal, anti-Syrian lawmaker who was close to slain former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, security officials said.

The explosion, apparently from a bomb-rigged car, killed Walid Eido, his son and two bodyguards, the officials said on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media. Six others were also killed and at least 11 were wounded, the officials said.

Eido, 65, was an ally of Saad Hariri, the leader of the parliamentary majority and son of Rafik Hariri, who was assassinated on Feb. 14, 2005, in a suicide truck bombing in Beirut. Eido is the seventh opponent of Damascus to be killed in two years in this conflict-ridden country.

The explosion occurred less than a mile from the site of blast that killed Rafik Hariri and 22 others.

A car was in flames and black smoke was seen rising from a narrow street off the main waterfront in Manara, which is in the Muslim sector of the capital. The Lebanese Broadcasting Corp. TV station said the explosion came from a bomb-rigged car, a method that has been used to assassinate opponents of       Syria in the past.

Two bodies covered with plastic bags lay in a smoldering car. The explosion shattered apartment windows, knocked down walls and scattered debris on top of parked cars in the area, which is near an amusement park, a military club and popular beaches.

The       U.N. Security Council has ordered the creation of a tribunal to prosecute those responsible for Hariri's assassination, despite virulent opposition from Syrian-backed groups in Lebanon.

Hariri's killing sparked huge protests against Syria, which was widely seen as culpable. Syria denied involvement but was forced to withdraw its troops from Lebanon, ending a 29-year presence.

The issue of the tribunal has sharply polarized the country. It is at the core of a deep political crisis between the U.S.-backed government led by Prime Minister Fuad Saniora and the Syrian-backed opposition led by Hezbollah. The tensions have taken a more sectarian tone in recent months, with 11 people killed in clashes.

In Washington, a spokesman for       President Bush's National Security Council said the U.S. "deplores this latest attack in Beirut" that killed Eido and his son.

"We stand with the people of Lebanon and Prime Minister Saniora's government as they battle extremists who are trying to derail Lebanon's march to peace, prosperity and a lasting democracy," Gordon Johndroe said.

Eido, who was known to frequent Manara in the afternoon to play cards with friends, was a vocal opponent of recent Hezbollah-led protests and sit-ins outside Saniora's office aimed at forcing him to step down. He has called the encampment in downtown Beirut an "occupation."

Eido also was among the 70 legislators from the pro-Western majority that petitioned the       United Nations along with the government to impose the Hariri tribunal.

Six other explosions have hit Beirut and its suburbs in the past three weeks, killing at least two people, as Lebanese troops battle Islamic militants in a Palestinian refugee camp in the northern part of the country.

The Lebanese army clashed with       Fatah Islam militants in the Nahr el-Bared camp again Wednesday, and confirmed that a soldier had been killed the day before, bringing the number of troops killed since the fighting began to 61.

At least 60 Fatah Islam militants and 20 civilians have also died.

The New York-based Human Rights Watch criticized the military Wednesday for allegedly detaining and physically assaulting some Palestinian men fleeing the fighting at the besieged camp.

Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East director of Human Rights Watch, said that while the Lebanese troops may question Palestinians leaving Nahr el-Bared about the Fatah Islam militants, "resorting to physical abuse is clearly against Lebanese law and international human rights standards."

Lebanese officials and the military did not immediately comment the allegations.

Most of the camp's 31,000 residents have fled since the violence broke out on May 20. But the International Committee of the Red Cross said that between 3,000 and 6,000 civilians remain behind.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: Peace
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 03:07 PM

'Also in recent days: Fatah and Hamas supporters have been tossed to their deaths from high-rise buildings; three family members were fatally shot -- one at close range -- while receiving treatment in a Beit Hanoun hospital; and Palestinian militants have been accused of disguising themselves as journalists to launch attacks.

Such instances prompted Human Rights Watch to issue a statement Wednesday accusing militants of "serious violations of international humanitarian law, in some cases amounting to war crimes."'

Gee. It must have hurt them terribly--HGuman Rights Watch--to suggest that Palestinians might be guilty of that. Usually it's the Israelis they mention. And what has Amnesty had to say? And where the f#ck are Al and Ifor?

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: Peace
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 03:11 PM

"Israel has not escaped the violence either, with Palestinian militants launching rockets early Wednesday into the country; one slammed into an Israeli primary school but caused no casualties, according to an Israeli military source."

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: Peace
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 04:54 PM

"And where the f#ck are Al and Ifor?"

I'll answer my own question: There are no Jews to bash, so they are gone from the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 01:27 PM

Hamas overruns rival Fatah's key posts

By DIAA HADID, Associated Press Writer
5 minutes ago



GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Hamas fighters overran two of the rival       Fatah movement's most important security command centers in the       Gaza Strip on Thursday, and witnesses said the victors dragged vanquished gunmen into the street and shot them to death execution-style.

Hamas also seized control of Rafah in the south, Gaza's third-largest city, according to witnesses and security officials. It was the second main Gaza city to fall to the militants, who captured nearby Khan Younis on Wednesday.

Hamas captured the Preventive Security headquarters and the intelligence services building n Gaza City, major advances in the Islamic group's attempts to take over Gaza.

After the rout at the security headquarters, some of the Hamas fighters kneeled outside, touching their foreheads to the ground in prayer. Others led Fatah gunmen out of the building, some shirtless or in their underwear, holding their arms in the air. Several of the Fatah men flinched as the crack of gunfire split the air.

A witness, who identified himself only as Amjad, said men were killed as their wives and children watched.

"They are executing them one by one," said Amjad, who lives in a building that overlooks the Preventive Security complex. "They are carrying one of them on their shoulders, putting him on a sand dune, turning him around and shooting," he said by telephone.

The killers ignored appeals from residents to spare the men's lives, said Amjad, who declined to give his full name, fearing reprisal.

Preventive Security is an especially despised target of Hamas because the agency carried out bloody crackdowns against the Islamic group in the 1990s.

Fatah officials said Hamas shot and killed seven of its fighters outside the Preventive Security building. A doctor at Shifa Hospital said he examined two bodies that had been shot in the head at close range. The officials and the doctor spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisals.

Militants and civilians looted the compound, hauling out computers, documents, office equipment, furniture and TVs.

The moderate President Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah, for the first time in five days of fierce fighting, ordered his elite presidential guard to strike back. But his forces were crumbling fast under the onslaught by the better-armed and better-disciplined Islamic fighters.

In all, 14 fighters and civilians were killed and 80 wounded in the battle for the Preventive Security complex, bringing the day's death toll to 25, hospital and security officials said. About 90 people, mostly fighters but also women and children, have been killed since a spike in violence Sunday sent Gaza into civil war.

The two factions have warred sporadically since Hamas took power from Fatah last year, but never with such intensity. Hamas reluctantly brought Fatah into the coalition in March to quell an earlier round of violence, but the uneasy partnership began crumbling last month over control of the powerful security forces.

Hamas had been tightening its grip on the Preventive Security complex for three days, stepping up its assault late Wednesday with a barrage of bullets, grenades, mortar rounds and land mines that continued until the compound fell. Electricity and telephone lines were cut, and roads leading to the complex were blocked. Hamas claimed it confiscated two cars filled with arms.

The       Palestine Liberation Organization's top body recommended that Abbas declare a state of emergency and dismantle Fatah's governing coalition with Hamas. Abbas said he would review the recommendations and decide later Thursday, said an aide, Nabil Amr.

"We are telling our people that the past era has ended and will not return," Islam Shahawan, a spokesman for Hamas' militia, told Hamas radio. "The era of justice and Islamic rule have arrived."

Sami Abu Zuhri, a Hamas spokesman, heralded what he called "Gaza's second liberation," after       Israel's 2005 evacuation of the coastal strip.

Israel was watching the carnage closely, concerned the clashes might spawn attacks on its southern border. Defense Minister Amir Peretz told a weekly meeting of security officials that Israel would not allow the violence to spread to attacks on southern Israel, meeting participants said.

White House press secretary Tony Snow called the situation "a source of profound concern" that is being monitored by Washington. He said Hamas has expanded its "acts of terror" to target the Palestinian people themselves.

"We are keeping a very close watch," he said. "It's certainly not a situation we like."

The       European Union said it suspended humanitarian aid projects in Gaza, citing the escalating violence there.

The head of the Arab League, Amr Moussa, warned of a "disastrous outcome" if the bloody infighting continues and called for an immediate cease-fire.

Hamas, meanwhile, had its sights on two other key command centers in Gaza City.

In a broadcast on Hamas radio, the Islamic fighters demanded that Fatah surrender the National Security compound by midafternoon. Light clashes were under way there when the ultimatum was delivered.

RPGs were fired toward Abbas' Gaza compound, provoking return fire from his presidential guard. For the first time since the fighting began, Abbas ordered his guard to go on the offensive against Hamas at the compound, and not simply maintain a defensive posture, an aide said. He spoke on condition of anonymity because the situation was fluid.

Hamas fighters fired dozens of RPGs at the intelligence services building in Gaza City. When they captured it, Hamas television broadcast pictures of the fighters raising the group's green Islamic flag on the roof.

In Rafah, Hamas took over the Preventive Security building, according to witnesses and Col. Nasser Khaldi, a senior police official.

"I can see the Preventive Security building in front of me. Hamas has raised its green flags over it," said a civilian resident, who identified himself only as Raed. He said men carried away equipment from inside and the Fatah-allied security men ran away.

Near Rafah, Hamas officials said an Israeli tank shell struck a group of children from the same family riding in a car, and hospital workers said five were killed. The Israeli army denied its forces fired in the area.

Gaza hospitals were operating without water, electricity and blood.

Even holed up inside their homes, Gazans weren't able to escape the fighting. Moean Hammad, 34, said life had become a nightmare at his high-rise building near the Preventive Security headquarters, where Fatah forces on the rooftop were battling Hamas fighters.

"We spent our night in the hallway outside the apartment because the building came under crossfire," Hammad said. "We haven't had electricity for two days, and all we can hear is shooting and powerful, earthshaking explosions.

"The world is watching us dying and doing nothing to help. God help us, we feel like we are in a real-life horror movie," he said.

Fatah has threatened to carry the fighting to the       West Bank, where Hamas is weak. There have been sporadic battles in the West Bank this week, and on Thursday, Fatah went across the territory rounding up Hamas fighters in an effort to assert control.

The violence has exposed the depths of the disarray in Fatah's ranks since Hamas ended Fatah's 40-year dominion of Palestinian politics last year.

Fatah has asked Israeli permission to bring in more arms and armored vehicles, but Tzahi Hanegbi, chairman of the Israeli parliament's Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, told Army Radio that arming Fatah would be "insane" because the weapons would fall into Hamas hands.

He said Israel was considering backing Fatah forces in the West Bank, but did not elaborate.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 02:41 PM

The claim by several of the above that to be for the Human ,Civil and Democratic rights of Palestinians is to be anti semitic is a disgusting one .Although it is typical of the Zionists on this thread and elsewhere.
As for Mossad threatening those who support a free Palestine ,well they would need a million operatives .
I also had to have a little laugh about the reference to the apaches made by one of the zionists in one of the recent postings.
Having almost wiped out the apaches the US locked up Geronimo for years and years...Geronimos Cadillac by Michael Murphy tells the story in song ...but what is amazing having almost wiped them out an attack helicopter is named the apaches.
My take on the Hamas -Fatah conflict is this...
Fatah was a basically secular organisation which after years of resistance was unable to gain anything meaningful from Israel.
It is being pushed to one side although is getting some help from the US and indeed Israel which has been asked to allow the transport of arms and fighters through checkpoints.
Hamas has become popular not because of its religious fundamentalism but because it is still prepared to resist the Israeli occupation and threat.
It seems to me that without a just settlement the conflict will go on for years with the suffering of the Palestinians intensifying and Israel becoming an ever uglier and more brutal society.
There is still a need for a Free Palestine , justice for the refugees
and an end to the siege of Gaza.
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 03:49 PM

"an ever uglier and more brutal society"


Hamas fighters overran two of the rival       Fatah movement's most important security command centers in the       Gaza Strip on Thursday, and witnesses said the victors dragged vanquished gunmen into the street and shot them to death execution-style.
....
A witness, who identified himself only as Amjad, said men were killed as their wives and children watched.

"They are executing them one by one," said Amjad, who lives in a building that overlooks the Preventive Security complex. "They are carrying one of them on their shoulders, putting him on a sand dune, turning him around and shooting," he said by telephone.

The killers ignored appeals from residents to spare the men's lives, said Amjad, who declined to give his full name, fearing reprisal.

....

Among those killed Wednesday was a man who joined a nonviolent protest of the fighting in Gaza City. Also shot dead were two women from the Fatah-allied Bakr clan whose members had surrendered to Hamas. According to a clan member, the women tried to leave the area after the surrender to take a sick girl to a hospital and were shot on the street by jittery Hamas gunmen.

....

Separately, Hamas gunmen attacked the home of a senior Fatah security official with mortars and grenades, killing his 14-year-old son and three women inside, security officials said. Other Fatah gunmen stormed the house of a Hamas lawmaker and burned it down.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 03:53 PM

"The claim by several of the above that to be for the Human ,Civil and Democratic rights of Palestinians is to be anti semitic is a disgusting one Although it is typical of the Zionists on this thread and elsewhere."

FALSE- NO-ONE but you has made that claim. So, YOU are now a Zionist????

I will claim that to be for the Human ,Civil and Democratic rights of ISRAELIS is what YOU seem to object the most to. The deaths of innocent PALESTINIANS seems fine with you as well, as long as they are being killed by those YOU support.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 03:58 PM

To predict another war in the Middle East is akin to predicting more traffic accidents in L.A. or more rain in London.

The conflict between Fatah and Hamas was similarly predictable. When you have divided authority in a very unstable region that is already suffering from past warfare, poverty, and disaster, you will inevitably have infighting between the competing groups represented by those divided authorities.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 05:20 PM

Abbas Dissolves Palestinian Government

AP - Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:52:05 -0400 (EDT)
By SARAH EL DEEB

A beleaguered Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas declared a state of emergency and disbanded the Hamas-led unity government after the Islamic militant group vanquished its Fatah rivals and effectively took control of the Gaza Strip on Thursday.

Fearful that Hamas' momentum could spread to the West Bank, Fatah went on the offensive there, rounding up three dozen Hamas fighters.

It was a day of major victories for Hamas and its backers in Iran and Syria -- and of devastating setbacks for the Western-backed Fatah. In one particularly humiliating scene, masked Hamas fighters marched agents of the once-feared Preventive Security Service out of their headquarters, arms raised in the air, stripped to the waist and ducking at the sound of a gunshot.

Abbas, of Fatah, fired the Hamas prime minister and said he would install a new government, replacing the Hamas-Fatah coalition formed just three months ago. Abbas' decrees won't reverse the Hamas takeover of Gaza. Instead, his moves will enable Fatah to consolidate its control over the West Bank, likely paving the way for two separate Palestinian governments.

Because Fatah has recognized Israel's right to exist and signed on to past peace agreements, the international community's boycott of the Palestinian territories in the wake of Hamas' electoral successes may no longer apply to the West Bank -- just to Gaza. Some 2 million Palestinians live in the West Bank, while 1.4 million reside in Gaza.

Hamas' success has thrown into turmoil everything from Mideast peacemaking to Palestinian statehood to relations with Israel and the West.

"The era of justice and Islamic rule has arrived," Hamas spokesman Islam Shahawan said.

Fatah's old demons -- corruption, petty quarreling, lack of leadership -- led to its dismal performance. While disciplined Hamas systematically hoarded weapons, Fatah's Gaza leader, Mohammed Dahlan, preferred travel and West Bank politics to preparing for the inevitable showdown with the Islamic militants. Dahlan returned Thursday from Egypt, where he stayed several weeks after knee surgery. But instead of going to Gaza, he headed for Ramallah in the West Bank.

Many West Bank Palestinians, watching the fall of Gaza on their TV screens, pinned the blame on Abbas, whom they see as indecisive and detached. During Hamas's assaults in Gaza this week, no prominent Fatah leader was in the coastal strip to take command.

"Hamas has leadership, a goal, an ideology and funding," said Gaza analyst Talal Okal. "Fatah has neither leadership, nor a goal, a vision or money."

By capturing three of Gaza City's four main security compounds and the southern town of Rafah, Hamas all but secured its hegemony in Gaza, putting Islamic extremists in control there. The final target for Hamas is Abbas' Gaza City headquarters.

For first time since fighting erupted five days ago, Abbas issued an order to strike back at Hamas. But his words were too little, too late. The violence that has killed at least 90 people in the past five days, including 32 on Thursday alone, made the Hamas-Fatah unity government look like a farce anyway.

Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri said Abbas' decisions have "no value" on the ground.

Israeli Defense Minister Amir Peretz vowed not to let the takeover of Gaza spill over into violence against Israel. Some Israelis said only a Gaza invasion could curb Hamas' military power. But for now, the government seems more inclined to stay out, fearful of inviting more rocket attacks on southern Israel.

In Washington, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said the United States backs Abbas' move. Abbas informed Rice of his decision in a phone call earlier Thursday.

"President Abbas has exercised his lawful authority as president of the Palestinian Authority, as leader of the Palestinian people," Rice said. "We fully support him in his decision to try and end this crisis for the Palestinian people and to give them an opportunity ... to return to peace and a better future."

The European Commission, meanwhile, suspended tens of millions of dollars in humanitarian aid projects in the Gaza Strip because of the escalating violence, a day after the U.N. announced it would scale back its relief projects there.

This week's fighting has been the most intense since Hamas won parliamentary elections last year, setting the stage for a violent power struggle with Fatah. Hamas reluctantly brought Fatah into the coalition in March to quell an earlier round of violence, but the uneasy partnership began crumbling last month over control of the powerful security forces.

No battle was more indicative of Gaza's hatreds and passions than the one at Preventive Security, one of Fatah's four main security bases in the coastal strip. After Hamas fighters overran it in a hail of mortar and gunfire Thursday, they touched their heads to the ground in prayer and marched vanquished gunmen into the streets shirtless.

Preventive Security carried out a brutal crackdown on Hamas in 1996, and the militants never forgot it. Witnesses, Fatah officials and a doctor reported gangland-style executions of the defeated fighters Thursday.


Preventive Security carried out a brutal crackdown on Hamas in 1996, and the militants never forgot it. Witnesses, Fatah officials and a doctor reported gangland-style executions of the defeated fighters Thursday.

"There is a history to it, a vendetta and a settling of scores," said Palestinian lawmaker Hanan Ashrawi.

Fatah officials, speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of retribution, said Hamas shot dead seven Fatah fighters after they had surrendered. A doctor at Shifa Hospital said he examined two bodies that had been shot in the head at close range.

A witness named Amjad who lives in a high-rise building that overlooks the Preventive Security complex said men were killed in front of their wives and children.

"They are executing them one by one," Amjad said in a telephone interview, declining to give his full name for fear of reprisals. "They are carrying one of them on their shoulders, putting him on a sand dune, turning him around and shooting."

The killers, he said, ignored appeals from neighborhood residents to spare the men's lives.

Abu Zuhri, the Hamas spokesman, denied the reports of gangland-style killings. "Whoever was killed was killed in clashes," he said.

Hamas TV said the Preventive Security building would be turned into an Islamic college. It showed a room with wall-to-wall wiretapping equipment -- a testament to Fatah's collapsed control.

Hamas fighters later seized the Fatah-controlled intelligence services building, planting the Islamic group's green flag on the roof of the ship-shaped structure. And after nightfall, the group announced it had seized Fatah's last stronghold in Gaza, the National Security headquarters.

Hamas TV showed smoke billowing from the top two floors of the mortar-pocked, five-story intelligence building. Five masked gunmen posed inside for the TV camera, including one who raised two assault rifles in triumph.

Another gunman, wearing a Hamas headband around his helmet, stood in a pose of prayer, a hand to each side of his head, screaming "Allah is Great" at the top of his voice.

Spent bullets lay on the floor in one office, and a carton holding hand grenades stood in another area.

Outside the building, three masked gunmen prayed on the sidewalk, their weapons on the ground in front of them as they kneeled in prayer.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 05:37 PM

with regard to the allegation of anti semitism do refer to Peace in the above...13th june 4.54
huw

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 07:30 PM

"There are no Jews to bash, so they are gone from the thread. "

"The claim by several of the above that to be for the Human ,Civil and Democratic rights of Palestinians is to be anti semitic is a disgusting one "

I do not see that any claim of anti-semitism is being lodged for "to be for the Human ,Civil and Democratic rights of Palestinians".


I DO see that the bashing of Jews, by refusing to address the issues being discussed, or answering ANY questions about how the Israelis are acting in any manner WORSE than the Palestinians and other Arab Moslems have and are presently IS reason to claim you are being anti-semitis.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 07:31 PM

Do Jews in ARAB nations enjoy the same rights as Moslems in Israel?

Would you care to anwer that? Remember, it is ILLEGAL to be Jewish and reside, even as a non-citizen, in Jordan ( The PALESTINIAN Moslem Homeland) or Saudi Arabia. Let me know what you find out about the other Arab nations.


HOW MANY Jews are presently living in JORDAN - the Palestinian Moslem Homeland)?

HOW many Moslems are living in Israel?


BTW, what about the GREATER number of Jews driven out of the Arab nations?

Or do you insist that Arab Jews are not supposed to have the "rights" that YOU have demanded for the Palestinian Arabs?

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 05:41 AM

A little
light relief.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 10:00 AM

from the Washington Post:

A 'Two-State Solution,' Palestinian-Style

By Martin Indyk
Friday, June 15, 2007; Page A21

Does Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas know something that we don't? For five days his presidential security forces in Gaza came under organized attack by Hamas gunmen. His compound in Gaza City was under siege. But he responded to these clear challenges to his authority with observations about the madness that had infected Gaza and refused to assign blame.

One might expect that this democratically elected leader would denounce Hamas's coup and call for international intervention to restore his control. But there he sat in Ramallah, prevaricating as the only liberated part of his putative state fell into the hands of his Palestinian archenemies. Finally yesterday, he dismissed the Hamas-led government, but only after its takeover of Gaza was complete.

Critics will say that this is typical of Abbas, a weak leader who would rather appease his challengers than confront them. But perhaps Abbas understands the emerging realities better than they do.

Over the past year when Hamas would stage attacks in Gaza, Fatah forces would retaliate in the West Bank, where they were stronger. When fighting began this time, Fatah did little in the West Bank to counter Hamas's onslaught. Abbas's passivity further confirms that the fix was in. Abbas and Fatah have in effect conceded Gaza to Hamas while they hold on to the West Bank. Hamastan and Fatahstine: a "two-state solution" -- just not the one that George W. Bush had in mind.

Of course, all Palestinian leaders will continue to declare the indivisibility of the Palestinian homeland. But in private, Abbas and other Fatah leaders may take solace from the dilemma Hamas will now have to confront.

The failed state of Gaza that Hamas controls is wedged between Egypt and Israel. Its water, electricity and basic goods are imported from the Jewish state, whose destruction Hamas has declared as its fundamental objective. One more Qassam rocket fired from Gaza into an Israeli village and Israel could threaten to seal the border if Hamas did not stop its attacks. Hamas would then have to reach a meaningful cease-fire with Israel or seek Egypt's help meeting the basic needs of the 1.5 million Gazans. Hosni Mubarak's regime turned a blind eye to the importation of weapons and money that helped ensure Hamas's takeover. But would Egypt allow on its border a failed terrorist state run by an affiliate of the Muslim Brotherhood with links to Iran and Hezbollah? Or will it insist on the maintenance of certain standards of order in return for its cooperation?

Whatever transpires, Gaza has become Hamas's problem. It's a safe bet that the real attitude of Abbas and Fatah is: Let Hamas try to rule Gaza, and good luck.

This turn of events would free Abbas to focus on the much more manageable West Bank, where he can depend on the Israel Defense Forces to suppress challenges from Hamas, and on Jordan and the United States to help rebuild his security forces. As chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization and president of the Palestinian Authority, Abbas is empowered to negotiate with Israel over the disposition of the West Bank. Once he controls the territory, he could make a peace deal with Israel that establishes a Palestinian state with provisional borders in the West Bank and the Arab suburbs of East Jerusalem.

Meanwhile, Palestinians in Gaza could compare their fate under Hamas's rule with the fate of their West Bank cousins under Abbas -- which might then force Hamas to come to terms with Israel, making it eventually possible to reunite Gaza and the West Bank as one political entity living in peace with the Jewish state. It's hard to believe that such a benign outcome could emerge from the growing Palestinian civil war. But given current events, this course is likely to become Abbas's best option.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has an interest in this outcome, too. Elected on a mandate to leave the West Bank, Olmert was gravely weakened by the Lebanon war last summer. His best hope for political salvation lies in movement on the peace process. With Ehud Barak's election as Labor Party leader, Olmert now has a partner with security credentials who can lend him credibility and who may also want to prevent the West Bank from going Gaza's way.

For the Bush administration, the outcome in Gaza is an embarrassment. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has committed her last 18 months in office to resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. A failed terrorist state in Gaza is hardly what she had in mind for a legacy. Some will argue that it's time she talked to Hamas. But its thuggish, extraconstitutional behavior in Gaza and its commitment to the destruction of Israel make it an unlikely partner, at least until governing Gaza forces it to act more responsibly. And that leaves a "West Bank first" policy as Rice's best option, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 01:22 PM

Sporadic Violence Persists in Gaza

AP - Fri, 15 Jun 2007 12:05:50 -0400 (EDT)
By DIAA HADID

On Hamas' first day of full rule in Gaza, crowds looted strongholds of the rival Fatah on Friday -- stripping the home of one of the party's strongmen down to the flower pots -- and militants sent a man plunging to his death from a rooftop.

But the violence was sporadic and Gaza's streets, deserted in the past week of fighting, were crowded with cars, pedestrians and triumphant fighters with the Islamic militant group.

At Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' captured seaside office in Gaza City, a gunman sat down at the Fatah leader's desk, picked up the phone and pretended to be calling Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. "Hello, Rice?" the gunman said. "Here we are in Abu Mazen's office. Say hello to Abu Mazen for me." Other gunmen rifled through Abbas' belongings in a bedroom behind the office, lifting up a mattress and searching through drawers.

Hamas' military takeover of Gaza, after five days of battle, formalized the separation between Gaza and the West Bank, which lie on either side of Israel. The moderate government Abbas plans to appoint will have no say in Gaza, but stands a stronger chance than the Hamas-Fatah coalition it replaces of restoring foreign aid to the West Bank.

A resident of a Hamas-dominated neighborhood, identifying himself only as Yousef for fear of reprisal by his neighbors, said Gazans would always back the winner, regardless of ideology.

"Today everybody is with Hamas because Hamas won the battle. If Fatah had won the battle they'd be with Fatah. We are a hungry people, we are with whoever gives us a bag of flour and a food coupon," said Yousef, 30. "Me, I'm with God and a bag of flour."

Palestinians in the West Bank viewed the Hamas takeover of Gaza with a mixture of fear and hope -- realizing that it could bring needed foreign aid while dealing a major blow to dreams of Palestinian statehood.

Ahmed al-Aziz, a 53-year-old merchant in Ramallah, said the fenced-in Gazans have little to lose. "Everybody here is worried about his interests or his business. In Gaza, people are poor. They don't have work," he said.

Fleeing aboard a fishing boat on the Mediterranean, 97 senior members of Fatah's security and administrative apparatus arrived in Egypt hours after Hamas fighters took control of Gaza, an Egyptian security official in the port city of El-Arish said. Israel's Channel Two TV said Israel was briefly opening the Erez crossing into Israel to enable other Fatah leaders to escape.


Gazans awoke to the new reality of Hamas control, fraught with uncertainty and fear that they'll become even poorer and more isolated. Gaza's crossings with Egypt and Israel -- lifelines for the fenced-in territory -- have been closed this week, and it was not clear if they would reopen. Extended closure could quickly lead to a humanitarian crisis.

Because Fatah recognizes Israel and past peace agreements, a boycott of the Palestinian government imposed by Israel and the international community after Hamas' electoral successes may no longer apply to the West Bank -- only Gaza.

A Hamas spokesman said Palestinian police, now under Hamas command, would take up positions at the crossings, but it's unlikely Israel would agree: Hamas militants frequently attacked the passages in the past.

The house of former Gaza strongman Mohammed Dahlan, a longtime nemesis of Hamas, was overrun, and looters stripped it of everything from windows and doors to flowerpots. "This was the house of the murderer Dahlan that was cleansed by the holy warriors," read graffiti sprayed on the wall. Donkey carts outside the house waited to take on more loot.

More than 90 people were killed in five days of fighting, and dozens wounded.

The morgue at Gaza City's main Shifa Hospital was overflowing, with bodies lined up on the floor; some of the wounded were sleeping on cardboard on the floor.

Earlier Friday, Hamas announced it had arrested 10 of the most senior Fatah leaders in the strip, including the commanders of Abbas' own elite guard unit and the chief of the National Security force, but it later declared an amnesty for all Fatah leaders, and several were released.

Two revenge killings were reported.

Hamas said a Fatah man was thrown off a rooftop, to his death, in a family revenge slaying. In southern Gaza, a Fatah fighter was shot and killed by Hamas gunmen.

In all, about a dozen Fatah fighters were executed, gang-land style, since Gaza fell to Hamas late Thursday, according to people with ties to Fatah. Among those killed was Samih Madhoun, a leader of a feared militia, whose bullet-riddled body was found Thursday evening. Madhoun was captured by Hamas at a roadblock, and Hamas posted a photo of the blood-covered corpse, sprawled on the ground, on its Web site.

Still, Hamas also sent conciliatory signals. Abu Obeideh called for the immediate release of Alan Johnston, the BBC journalist who was kidnapped in March and is believed held by a powerful Gaza clan whose members had ties to both Hamas and Fatah. "We will not allow for his continued detention," Abu Obeideh said of Johnston.

The battle for Gaza ended Thursday night when Hamas forces took the last Fatah stronghold, the seaside office complex of Abbas. The Fatah forces had collapsed quickly under Hamas' systematic onslaught. One by one, Hamas seized Fatah facilities and marched Fatah fighters down the street shirtless and with hands raised.

Fearful that Hamas' momentum could spread to the West Bank, Fatah-allied forces there staged a show of force -- driving through central Ramallah in pickup trucks, their rifles raised. In Nablus, Fatah men shot dead a Hamas member early Friday, Hamas said.

The stage for the struggle between Fatah and Hamas was set last year, when Hamas won parliamentary elections. Hamas reluctantly brought Fatah into a coalition government in March to quell an earlier round of violence, but the uneasy partnership began crumbling last month over control of security forces.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 01:59 PM

You should get a job as an anchorman, BB. ;-) Call up CNN and see if they need one.

Subject: RE: BS: Another war in the Middle East?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 05:08 PM

Anxious Arab states hold Gaza crisis talks

by Jailan Zayan
27 minutes ago



CAIRO (AFP) - Arab foreign ministers held crisis talks on the deadly dispute dividing the Palestinian territories on Friday amid dire warnings about the consequences of Hamas's seizure of the       Gaza Strip.

Ministers had been due to meet on Saturday at the request of Lebanon to discuss the latest killing of an anti-Syrian politician in that country.

But they brought their meeting forward after Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas dissolved a three-month-old power-sharing government on Thursday and the Islamists of Hamas seized control of the Gaza Strip, leaving Abbas and his       Fatah movement based in the occupied       West Bank.

Arab League ambassadors have appealed to both Hamas and Abbas's secular Fatah faction to return to Egyptian-sponsored reconciliation talks, warning that the failure of such talks could have "deeply negative consequences."

Before the meeting, league Secretary General Amr Mussa held talks with the head of the Palestinian delegation, Azzam al-Ahmed from Fatah, who was deputy prime minister in the sacked unity government.

Abbas on Friday tasked political independent Salam Fayyad with forming an emergency government but Hamas swiftly rejected the move as a "coup against legitimacy and a transgression of all laws".

Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal, whose country brokered a Palestinian unity government deal in the holy city of Mecca in February, said the infighting was "realising Israel's dream."

"Through their fighting, our Palestinian brothers have realised Israel's dream of setting alight the fire of discord and war between Palestinians," he told the meeting's opening session.

"Today, the Palestinians are banging in the last nail in the coffin of the Palestinian cause," he said, appealing for dialogue.

Egypt -- evidently wary about the creation of an Islamic-run entity on its doorstep -- condemned Hamas's "seizure of power" recalled all its diplomatic and security personnel from the Gaza Strip, diplomatic sources said.

General Mohammed Burhan, who headed a permanent security delegation based in the Gaza Strip and mediated numerous ceasefire agreements between Hamas and Fatah, told AFP that he had already left Gaza for Cairo.

Egypt had been trying to broker a face-to-face meeting between the two sides but the breakdown of that effort was swiftly followed by the latest bout of fighting in which at least 113 people have been killed in a week.

Analysts warned that an Islamic state in Gaza could prove problematic for Egypt, which is battling to contain a strong Islamic opposition at home.

By Friday, Hamas fighters had taken control of all remaining institutions loyal to Abbas in Gaza, leaving the Arab League's call looking a forlorn hope.

Egypt called on Hamas to accept Abbas's presidential authority after he declared a state of emergency and dissolved both parliament and the government on Thursday pending fresh elections.

Foreign Minister Ahmed Abul Gheit stressed the need to "respect legitimate Palestinian institutions, abide by a unified Palestinian decision, and respect the Palestinian National Authority... and its president Mahmud Abbas."

King Abdullah II of Jordan said he hoped the feuding sides would "engage in dialogue to come to an agreement to avert an explosive situation."

In a telephone call with Abbas on Thursday, he warned that the factional fighting "only serves the interests of the Palestinian enemies."

Arab newspapers have expressed concern that Hamas's seizure of Gaza would merely play into the hands of       Israel, giving it a pretext to spurn peace talks with the Palestinians and press ahead with settlement of the occupied West Bank.

An opinion piece in the pan-Arab daily Al-Hayat appealed to Hamas not to torpedo Palestinian national unity for the sake of power in tiny and impoverished Gaza.

"Hamas's options will from now on be limited to the huge prison camp that is Gaza," warned columnist Maher Ossman.

"It would be disgraceful if Hamas's ambitions were confined to a trivial mini-state which will most likely be ignored," he added, calling for "a common national platform that would give the Palestinians a united voice."