BS: Hand cream

Subject: BS: Hand cream
From: Mooh
Date: 05 Oct 03 - 07:45 PM

I couldn't find this discussed around here, so here goes...

My hands, which are my livelihood, have suddenly started to develop dry flakey skin on or near the tips. It doesn't hurt to play strings with this condition and only once in a rare while does an edge of skin catch awkwardly on a string. At this moment I have two tips with this condition, one on each hand. This appears also to be unrelated to my playing as the areas affected aren't always areas which contact the strings. I haven't changed anything about my technique or my instruments so I think this might be related to the latex gloves I need to wear on my part-time job (in order to protect me from things which cause such conditions I suppose), though I only wear them for a couple of hours daily, change them at least three times, and wash between changes.

Regardless of the cause, and I want to figure that out too, is there an ideal hand cream for musicians? By this I mean one that doesn't cause more problems than it solves, gums up strings, has side-effects, or cost the world. Home-made recipes would be cool, but I will buy otherwise.

For the past week or so I've been using my Bride's St.Ives Extra Relief Collagen Elastin dry skin lotion at bed time, but during the day it would only cut into my playing time. So far no discernible results.

Who uses what, and why? Risks?

Thanks in advance to this the wisest of friends, Mudcat.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: Mudlark
Date: 05 Oct 03 - 07:51 PM

Mooh...not sure about what might be appropriate while playing, but something like bag balm, lanolin, etc. used at night under light cotton gloves, often helps in general.

Any way you can avoid latex gloves...I've sure heard a lot of complaints about side effects. Sometimes it's the powder dusted inside them, and there are now powderfree gloves available.

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: open mike
Date: 05 Oct 03 - 08:05 PM

there are also non latex gloves in case you find this is due to a latex
sensitivity--which is quite common, by the way. The main culprit may be the washing between glove changes...perhaps that would be the time to lubricate your paws then they could be soaking in the cream while sweating in teh golves!
the gloves, that is.

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Oct 03 - 08:17 PM

Thick, greasy stuff is most effective. I have a prescription for something called Absorbase which is pretty much the same thing as Eucarin. I have no idea if these things have similar names where you are. Latex gloves - POWDERED ones are worst and there's some who feel it's the powder that causes the problems since it absorbs and holds stuff the latex off-gasses - can cause allergies, but that doesn't sound like what you have.

The number of times you wash your hands and the oil-dissolving capability of your soap may be causing problems. Also 'suddenly' indicates that something changed which may have led to the problems. Different soap, different gloves, different chemicals you work with which might permeate the gloves somewhat, or some procedure which allows the tips of your fingers, but not the rest of your hand, to come into contact with a solvent.

Anyway, go for the thick stuff. It will gunk up your strings, but I don't know what you can do about that.

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Oct 03 - 08:27 PM

if it were me, I think I'd see if it were 'possible' to wear the thinnest of white cotton gloves under the latex gloves. There are very light ones we used to wear in Marching Band, and we clarinet players would cut out the fingertips..

I know, relative sizes and such might not allow this,,but...

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Oct 03 - 10:56 PM

Allergies to latex are so common that most of the health care professionals in my area (major glove users) have switched to non-latex kinds. They seem not to be much different in price, from what I've seen in retail outlets, so perhaps you could get a different kind at least for a temporary trial.

If you are stuck with using latex, be aware that many common hand lotion ingredients will cause very rapid degeneration of latex. In fact - if you've been using lotion recently you could be destroying the gloves (with your lotion) rapidly enough to expose yourself to whatever the gloves are meant to exclude. (The latex may not break, but still could become permeable.)

Any persistent crud around the nails, hands or feet, should trigger the suspicion of fungal infection. Even if it's not the "original" cause, fungi grow so persistently in callous that it may jump in as a secondary problem. Any good anti-fungal (athlete's foot or "jock itch") spray or power can be used to at least verify that there isn't such infection.

A little supplemental vitamin E sometimes improves general skin health, and won't hurt if used in moderation.

Since the tissue around the nails is mostly callous - i.e. dead meat - there's not much you can do to bring it "back to life" with any kind of lotion. HEALING the area, by avoiding exposure to what causes it, and knocking out any infectious invasions of the tissue, are about all that usually helps. Lanolin, aloe, and shark oil are the commonly recommended "emolients" in such cases, but I'm not sure any of them work much better than bacon fat.

(Note: above is strictly a non-professional opinion. If you really are concerned, professional assistance is often something to consider.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: Gypsy
Date: 05 Oct 03 - 11:03 PM

Try changing to nonlatex......it is a pretty common allergy, so that would be my first bet. What else has changed in your life? Such as: laundry detergent (a very common culprit) dish detergent, change of diet, change of weather. Lets see, what else, allergies in general? This year has been BAD in my area. Feel fungus-y? Try acidophilus on an empty stomache, and see if that clears it up. And, for that matter, if you had no problems with the gloves in the past, see if they changed the brand. Might be all it takes.

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: alanabit
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 04:06 AM

I had a lot of problems with cuts on my fingertips when I went busking in winter. The best protection was a good hand cream. You rub it in well and when it's dry, you have protection for four or five hours. When I got those deep cuts, (which can sting like Hell and be a bit messy if they open and start bleeding over the strings), the best cure was to rub a good baby wound protection cream into them at night. It would usually close up the cuts by the morning. That stuff which is used for cracked lips will also do the trick. It is called Lipsil in Britain and Labello here in Germany. It may have another name where you are.
   The other thing I was careful about was to try not to wash my hands too often when I was out. The water tended to dry and harden the skin. That led to cracking. I do not know the source of your problems, so my own experience may or may not be relevant to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: smallpiper
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 04:31 AM

E45 thats the stuff works every time.

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 04:46 AM

Just a side note to the latex discussion......My wife who wears them all the time has another coworker who is allergic not to the latex, but to the powder lining.....something that's pretty rare but worth remembering.

As to lotions, vitamin E, Bag Balm, and aloe are my best bets.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: Pied Piper
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 06:20 AM

I had a similar problem a few years ago, and it got very painful.
I think Jeri and Alan have it right about washing the hands.
I changed to Ecover detergent (made from Palm oil) and the problem cleared up.
The problem was severest on the fingers of my left hand which every couple of days; I use to clean my glasses, with detergent. I'm still doing that with the Ecover and have no problems.

TTFN
PP

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: jacqui.c
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 08:22 AM

I've had that problem with the fingertips and finally took a food tolerance test which showed that I had a problem with a number of common foods. Having cut them out of my diet I don't get the problems anymore. Eat those foods and the finger tips crack. It might be worth having a word with your doctor just to check out allergies/intolerances.

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: Mooh
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 08:50 AM

Thanks all!

Betamethasone valerate? What is it?

I had pretty much ruled out diet, fungus, and infection as contributing factors, and I'm waiting on an appointment with my family physician (who works only part-time), but I will revisit all those possibilities.

Hand washing is a catch-22 thing for me since my non-music job has me cleaning a school where, imho, it's a cesspool of germs. The employer provides a half decent lotion like soap for staff use, but even that is suspect. I never considered the powder in the latex gloves and will immediately switch to another type to see what happens. For the time being I'll buy a few pairs of a couple of different gloves and give them a couple of weeks test each. (I can get the cost back from my boss.)

Funny I didn't think of vitamin E cream since the Good Wife always has some.

I am being encouraged at home to do music full-time. That would be the real cure!

Does anyone have any experience with something called betamethasone valerate (sp?)? An acquaintance suggested I ask my doctor about it.

Thanks.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 09:21 AM

Cetaphil is a good hypoallergenic lotion and can be used also as a rinseless wash.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: Peg
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 10:14 AM

Neutrogena Norwegian formula hand cream. Put it on at night and put cotton socks over your hands while you sleep.
Be sure to rub it into your cuticles too.

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: Mooh
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 10:47 AM

Susan...I'll check it out. Thanks!

Peg...Socks on my hands? I wish! I'm so roudy in my sleep I can strip the bed without knowing it. Never have been able to keep a bandage, pajamas, bed linen, and even pillow cases on for a night. This morning my pillow was on the floor, the fitted sheet removed on my side, and the covers apart and rearranged. (My sleeping bag is in tatters.) I might try your suggestion though, maybe I'll settle down at night if I can't hold anything (except perhaps the better half).

Thanks.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: Peg
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 08:35 PM

it's just for one night, Mooh! I know what ya mean though, I am a tosser and turner myself...

good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: LadyJean
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 09:02 PM

I clean houses for a living. I have my hands in water, hot and cold, bleach cleaner, cleanser, vinegar, and assorted other nasty stuff. I use Vitamin E cream. (Just incidentally, my hands feel better if I've been using Murphy's Oil Soap.)

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: Kim C
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 11:14 AM

Every year when it starts getting colder, my hands get all dry. I've tried so many things that are supposed to work, and they almost never do. Lately, though, I've been having pretty good luck with two things: the Arnica hand cream from Yves Rocher, and something I picked up at the drugstore called O'Keeffe's Working Hands Creme. There's another product called Zim's Crack Creme - yes, I know the obvious jokes, but it's for cracked skin. :-) I haven't tried that one yet, but it gets pretty good reviews from others.

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: GUEST,KateG
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 11:45 AM

If you have to have your hands in nasty stuff a lot, I recommend cotton-lined rubber gloves. I get the large size so that there's plenty of air space between the glove and my hand -- it takes a bit of getting used to because they are thicker than the latex ones, but you can flop them off rather than peel them off, which is wonderful. I search out the Bluettes brand, and a pair will last a year or two if I stay away from sharp objects. I rotate them down from kitchen use, to bathroom, and finally to messy d-i-y jobs before they die.

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 12:24 PM

WalMart has a store brand knockoff ("Equate") of that Cetaphil, cheaper.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: Mooh
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 08:42 AM

Vitamin E cream at night and cotton lined rubber gloves at work with no increase in the condition the past two nights. The gloves are clumbsy so I'll look about for another brand. I guess I'll need a few days to see results. Thanks.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 09:11 AM

Latex is another name for natural rubber.

Synthetic rubber or vinyl gloves ought to work as long as the chemicals you're using don't dissolve them.

Way more information than anyone probably wants in this Technical Information Bulletin on latex the US Dep't of Labor.

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: Mooh
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 09:49 AM

Thanks Jeri, that's very useful! Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 11:37 AM

I have had a terrible time with my hands in the past because of lemon juice. I have discovered Nitrile gloves from my dentist. Ask JimmyT. Cream wise I use Aqueous cream from Boots. It's cheap, you get a big pot and it's brill. My daughters use it for moisturiser and so do I, not only for my hands either!!! Steer clear of anything perfumed.

Sal

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: Homeless
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 05:13 PM

If you want to go the cotton inside the outer gloves, Photo supply stores almost always have very thin white cotton gloves. We use them in the darkroom because skin oils will ruin photo paper before it is developed, and also to keep fingerprints off photos. The gloves have to be thin because we work in complete darkness and do everything by touch.

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: GUEST,emily s
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 06:22 PM

I have used glycerin to help with chapped hands in the winter. Use about a nickle size drop on your hands and then run one hand under water and then rub together. You've used too much if your hands feel sticky. A biochemist friend recommended this for my bodhran since glyerin will naturally dissolve after a time without leaving a residue. At least that's what I think he said. Any other biochemists out there who can confirm this? You can buy glycerin at a drug store and it is very cheap.
good luck.
Emily S (formerly emily b)

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 03:36 AM

The best product you will ever find to protect your hands is a cream called Dermashield. As far as I am aware it is only available through independent distributors, and not through regular pharmacies.

Do a Google search for Dermashield and you will find out where to obtain it in your area.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Hand cream
From: Mooh
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 08:36 AM

Anyone ever notice any negative effects on fingernails? So far mine are fine but I need them for playing guitar and don't want them softened by the use of hand cream. Thanks.

Btw, it looks like the vitamin E cream is working.

Thanks. Mooh.