BS: Obama disappoints again

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 06:39 PM

Wrong election, Ake- the bogus one was Bush in 2000.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 07:53 PM

Oh yeah, America's tin-horn dictator...

(No, Boberdz... He was America's "tin-horn-decider"...)

Don't matter... The elction was indeed bogus...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: mousethief
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 08:36 PM

The election was fair and square. 5 to 4. Doesn't the Supreme Court always elect the president?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 09:51 PM

Only when it matters!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Sawzaw
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 10:12 PM

"weren't wars he would have gotten US bogged down into"

Bobert Rides Again. The world according to Bobert.

Obama was never opposed to the war in Afghanistan, only the Iraq war. He has always been a supporter of the war in Afghanistan.

Here it is in his own words on his own website, barackobama.com:

And so, a little more than a year after that bright September day, I was in the streets of Chicago again, this time speaking at a rally in opposition to war in Iraq. I did not oppose all wars, I said. I was a strong supporter of the war in Afghanistan. But I said I could not support "a dumb war, a rash war" in Iraq. I worried about a " U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences" in the heart of the Muslim world. I pleaded that we "finish the fight with bin Ladin and al Qaeda."

---

Mar 27 2009: The United States of America did not choose to fight a war in Afghanistan. Nearly 3,000 of our people were killed on September 11, 2001, for doing nothing more than going about their daily lives. Al Qaeda and its allies have since killed thousands of people in many countries. Most of the blood on their hands is the blood of Muslims, who al Qaeda has killed and maimed in far greater numbers than any other people. That is the future that al Qaeda is offering to the people of Pakistan and Afghanistan - a future without opportunity or hope; a future without justice or peace.

The road ahead will be long. There will be difficult days. But we will seek lasting partnerships with Afghanistan and Pakistan that serve the promise of a new day for their people. And we will use all elements of our national power to defeat al Qaeda, and to defend America , our allies, and all who seek a better future. Because the United States of America stands for peace and security, justice and opportunity. That is who we are, and that is what history calls on us to do once more.

---

December 2, 2009: To address these issues, it is important to recall why America and our allies were compelled to fight a war in Afghanistan in the first place. We did not ask for this fight. On September 11, 2001, 19 men hijacked four airplanes and used them to murder nearly 3,000 people. They struck at our military and economic nerve centers. They took the lives of innocent men, women and children without regard to their faith or race or station. Were it not for the heroic actions of the passengers on board one of those flights, they could have also struck at one of the great symbols of our democracy in Washington, and killed many more.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 10:51 PM

Sawz??? You out there??? Earth to Sawz???

Man, you really don't see reality, do you??? I mean, any political scientist that is in touch with the real deal would tell ya' that Obama, or anyone else on the planet, would never hade been elected if he campaigned on shuttin' down both wars... Dennis Kucinick was as close to that posoition as one could be and look what happened to him???

Let's get real here... This ain't rocket surgery... Had McCain been elected we would have two very hot wars on our hands... Shoot, with Sarah "I can see Russia from my back deck" Palin, maybe another new 'n shiney Shock and Awe'r on our hands so make that a possible three...

If you follow the money, I don't think that the folks who profit from endless war are too happy with Obama... Yeah, in the interim, some will be just fine and they'll put a big smile on their faces as they stand in front of their stockholders but Obama-world is a big threat to their jobs, and their share of the federal pie... Sad... Bruce Springsteen had a lesser CD come out at the end of his run with his recoding contract... The name of the CD is "Lucky Town"... ON that CD is a song entitled "The Big Muddy" which is a great pure folk singers song... One of Bruce's lines in, "Sooner or later, it all comes down to money..."

From my perspective we have a president who really ain't into the money game... And we have alot of other folks, way too many in Congress, who are totally into the money game and couldn't give a rip about the working class...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 11:06 PM

The 911 attacks were not a military attack by any sovereign nation on the USA, they were a criminal act by a small group of individuals, and they should have been responded to with a criminal investigation and police and intelligence work, not with an absurd and couterproductive invasion of Afghanistan.

Be that as it may, however, Obama said what he had to say to get elected. The American public (in general) simply isn't mature enough to respond in any other way to the 911 attacks than to go roaring off across the world and invade some other nation...whichever one gets the blame stuck on them for something they didn't plan and didn't do.

So Obama said what he had to say in 2008. If he also believes it, though, well then maybe he is as naive and ill-informed as the people who voted for both him and McCain.

Nothing whatsoever "compelled" the USA to fight a war in Afghanistan.   Afghanistan did not attack America. There are much less costly ways of destroying a scattered group like Al Quaeda than invading other countries with armies. Matter of fact, that's the least likely way of destroying Al Quaeda that I can think of. It gets them lots more recruits and ensures their continued popularity with many angry young Muslim men.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 12:48 AM

But, hey! How about some typical USA election propaganda?

The clear reasons why you shouldn't vote for THE OTHER PARTY's candidate!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 12:58 AM

Little Hawk, Yo-ho...

Loved it!!!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: michaelr
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 01:55 AM

"The solving of the terrorist problem, as a million people have said, is in Jerusalem, not Kabul."

Thank you, Peter T, for restating that basic fact, and explaining the situation so well. Mudcat at its finest. It beggars the imagination that even the thicker right-wingers could fail to understand it.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 02:10 AM

Bobert, Somehow I missed your post to me. I was only 'reporting' What was said by the idiot President of Iran. I was not agreeing, nor disagreeing. Frankly, he's as deluded as they come!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 07:40 AM

Actually, GfS, my post wasn't directed to you but to L.H. when he disagreed with my assessment of Akma-ding-a-ling being a "tin-horn dictator", which I later ammended to "tin-horn puppet elected by a bogus election"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 07:49 AM

"It beggars the imagination that even the thicker right-wingers could fail to understand it."


    The thicker right-wingers can't understand it because Jerusalem is a major component of their "end of day scenario."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 08:31 AM

That's the story I can't believe that the Christain Right has been able to implant in their followers little minds... Let's see if I have it right... Jesus is going to "come again" and then take (kill, I assume) all the "believers" and leave the Earth to the "heathens"???

Okee-dokee-alrighty-then...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 09:43 AM

""But....you refer to him as "a tin-horn dictator". Huh? On what basis? He is an elected politician, Bobert. They have multi-party elections in Iran at scheduled intervals. In simply glibly referring to him as a "dictator" when he does not fit that definition,""

That is a seriously debatable comment LH.

When the people of a country are so certain an election was rigged, that they take to the streets at risk of life and limb, and the army has to be mobilised to restrain them, it's somewhat disingenuous to claim that you know better, and he was legitimately elected.

If you are wrong, as seems to be the opinion of the Iranian Man-in-the-Street, then a Dictator is exactly what he is, and a particularly volatile and unpredictable Dictator too.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 09:46 AM

""But we don't call the American president "a tinhorn dictator".""

ARE YOU SURE?

There were quite a number who felt that way about Bush.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 09:57 AM

""Jesus is going to "come again" and then take (kill, I assume) all the "believers" and leave the Earth to the "heathens"???""

HELL BOBERT!

If that's the case, I'll move to the USA immediately.

There'll be nobody else but us Catters...........HEAVEN ON EARTH!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 12:37 PM

I think that's the story, Don...

I bought some carpet a few years back from a woman who came to our home with samples and all that... Anyway, we got to talkin' and that's the story she was tryin' to tell me... You know, "The Rapture" thing... So I just kept askin' her questions and purdy soon she was so confused that she really wished that she hadn't brought it up at all but said she was gonna send me some literature to read up on it... BTW, I never got that literature, danged it... I was kinda lookin' forward to this glossy brochure with a piccure of Jesus killin' off his followers... Thought that it might make fir a nice frameable art object...

I donno... I've said it many times that I consider myself to be a follower of Christ but, geeze loiuse, I ain't expectin' to find him at my doorstep with an AK-47!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: mousethief
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 12:51 PM

He doesn't kill them, silly, they float up into the clouds with him, then up up and away to Heaven.

And the nogoodniks only get the planet for 1000 years (although estimates vary on this one) after which Jesus comes back and kicks ass.

I don't believe this particular brand of dingo's kidneys but I have friends who do.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 01:12 PM

Don, crooked elections happen all over the Third World. It's a veru common thing, and it happens in countries that are allies of the USA too. I'm not sure whether or not Ahmadinejad would have won that last election if the votes had all been counted fairly. I don't have any way of knowing if he would have, and neither does anyone else among us. I'm not a bit surprised that the losing candidate contested the results and his followers took to the streets. That would have happened even IF the election had been fair and Ahmadinejad had gotten over 50% of the votes.

Consider elections in Pakistan. They always end in allegations of fraud perpetrated by the winners, huge demonstrations for and against the winners, riots, bloodshed, troops in the streets. And you know what? There always is election fraud there. ;-) Probably by both sides!

The Iranian election was undoubtedly complicated by American money that was siphoned in through CIA agents, because the USA has quite a number of operatives working in Iran all the time to destabilize and bring down the government there. So the opposition was getting illegal assistance from outside the country.

What would you think if that happened in an American election? What if the Chinese or someone were doing that on your ground? Would you like it? I don't think so.

It is mere glib political propaganda to label Ahmadinejad as a "dictator". He's a temporary elected official, and he will eventually be replaced (while still alive) by another temporary elected official, just like the men who preceded him in the same office. He is not a dictator. Dictators rule for life, and they rule by absolute power. Ahmadinejad is far from having absolute power in that country. He's just the current poster boy that the American media has siezed upon so they can have a recognizable evil "face" for the American public to fear and obsess about. He's the USA's favorite propaganda tool, and if he was gone, he'd be sorely missed by the people who yearn for a war with Iran. They'd have to spend months or years building some other evil "face" up into the next media boogeyman, after all, if Ahmadinejad was gone. That would be inconvenient. He is perfect for American and Israeli propaganda purposes.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 08:06 PM

""And the nogoodniks only get the planet for 1000 years (although estimates vary on this one) after which Jesus comes back and kicks ass.""

WRAP IT UP MAN, I'LL TAKE IT!

It's a damn sight better deal than my current contract, which only offers about another twenty. I'll take the thousand, and when it expires I'll happily bend over and take what's coming.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 08:15 PM

What, LH... You related to Ahmedjinedad??? I mean, you've all but elevated him to Che Gavera status... Maybe we should take up a collection and buy him a gold plated M-16 fir his birthday with "Love from the Cat" inscribed on it??? I donno... Maybe a tie wold be more appropriate...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Sawzaw
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 09:41 PM

Sawzaw to Bobert, come in Bobert. Nothing you said has anything to do with your totally incorrect claim that "weren't wars he would have gotten US bogged down into"

He was always for the war in Afghanistan like he says on his website, I was a strong supporter of the war in Afghanistan. Are you saying he lied about it to get elected? Is he just another lying politician that says any thing to get elected.

Here is where the Dems was criticizing him for being a Hawk on Pakistan:

Sen Joseph Biden, who is also running for president, said Obama's proposal clearly shows his inexperience. It's not something you talk about, he said. The last thing you want to do is telegraph to the folks in Pakistan plans that threaten their sovereignty.

Sen Christopher Dodd, Connecticut Democrat, used stronger words. Frankly, I am not sure what Barack is calling for in his speech this morning. But it is dangerous and irresponsible to leave even the impression the United States would needlessly and publicly provoke a nuclear power, he said.

Jump back in your barrel Bobert.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 10:08 PM

Literalist Sawz,

Okay, it's kinda like when you go to Aunt June's for Thanksgiving and everyone raves about here sweet-potato pie because she makes a big deal about how she got the recipe from Great-granny... But no one really likes her sweet-potato pie and when they get together when Aunt June ain't around they all make jokes about havin' to pretend that they like the pie...

In the South, it's called "grinnin' in yer face" where folks will act as if they is the best of friends (grinnin') when both know that if the rules were off that they'd be dukin' it out behind the barn...

Unfotunately, that is the way politics are... Ya gotta pretend that Aunt June's sweet-potato pie is good and pretend that the guy yer grinnin' at and who is grinnin' back at you is the best of friends... That's life... That's also politics...

Like I said, Obama couldn't have trashed both of Bush's wars and been elected so he picked the one that was the wronger of the two and went with the other so that he wouldn't give the Repub that big "soft on defense" opening...

Can I prove that??? Nah... No one really can... I'm sure that Michelle knows what Obama really feels about Afganistan but, hey, like others who have come before him, he'll just have to ride this one out...

But one thing is fir sure and that is that no other president has inherited two hot wars from the guy he followed... Not Reagan, not Lincoln, not Kennedy, not any of them... That alone isn't helping Obama in some quarters... I mean, regarless of whether or not he would have gotten US into one or both of these wars (which I think he wouldn't on both of them), he is stuck with them and as time goes on people will blame him for them... That's reality...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Sawzaw
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 10:38 PM

I find it particularly Ironic that the war Obama said could not be won, The surge will not work There is no military solution in Iraq, is much closer to being ended than the war of necessity.

Looks like the war in Afghanistan is falling apart and in need of a regime change.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Apr 10 - 02:30 AM

You misunderstand me, Bobert. I have no particular liking...or disliking...for Ahmadinejad. As far as I'm concerned he's just another Third World politician who's been appointed as the latest propaganda poster boy by the US media, that's all.

Prior to him you had Krushchev, Fidel Castro, Mao, Noriega, Kadaffi (you can spell that one several different ways), Saddam, Osama Bin Laden, the Ayatollah Khomeini, Daniel Ortega...on and on and on.

The US government figures that its public is so stupid that they must be given symbolic "bad guys" like characters in a TV western to motivate them to support conflicts with other countries. So they always look for one. It helps a great deal if he has swarthy skin, facial hair, and a name that doesn't sound American!!! (Gasp!)

If his name is unusual enough to American ears that the average American can't even pronounce it or spell it...so much the better. He MUST be evil, right? He must be the next "Hitler", a "clear and present danger" to the entire world, and he must be hunted down and "taken out", even if you have to kill a few million of his countrymen to do it.

That's what I'm referring to. I'm not defending Ahmadinejad himself. I'm attacking another sad example of totally exaggerated and hysterical war propaganda that is being built around Ahmadinejad by the western media.

I've seen it way too many times before. Same old tired, stupid routine we've seen ever since I can remember.

Surely you recall when the world couldn't risk the continued existence of Muammar Quadaffi, don't you? Or Fidel? Or Mao?

Two of them are still here, the world has survived just fine in spite of it, and you don't hear much about them now, because the empire is seeking objectives in other areas than Libya and Cuba at the moment.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Apr 10 - 07:44 AM

Hey, Quadaffi is backon the officvail White House Christmas card list, LH... lol... And if Castro hangs on a couple more years, he may get on the list, too...

But seriously, you are correct... It *is* the "same old tired, stupid routine we've seen ever since I can remember"...

As fir Ahmedinejad... Given his recent proclamations, hey, he sounds like a "tin-horned _____________ " (whatever) to me...

Yo, sawz... For the ump-teenth time, the aspect of "THE SURGE" (oh, how scarey) that worked was putting Sunnis on the American taxpayer's payroll... Not the Sarah Palin-ish simplistic view of more troops which had nothing to do with the Sunnis quitting shooting at US...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Sawzaw
Date: 10 Apr 10 - 10:10 AM

Dear Bobert: So everything would have gone the same with no increase in troops? Yes or no?

And what is so scary besides the fact that the surge worked and you are dancing like a bug in a hot frying pan trying to deny it?

Matter of fact it worked so good that Obama is tring to claim it is one [one?] of his major successes. I don't see him claimin' that putting Sunnis on the payroll was one of his major successes.

Or maybe you spin it one way and you spin it the other way.

At least you are backing off of your "Hugo is da Man" attitude. That shows some logic.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 10 Apr 10 - 10:58 AM

And talking of spin.

""Republicans reflected the public will with respect to health care. Every poll showed significant opposition to the health care legislation. By 2-1 the American people said stop it from passing. We tried to do that. But the Democrats were able to jam it through.""
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

""Although I am a Democrat, I personally believe it is better to do it the way Republicans do it. That way, a individual can research their favorite charities and foundations and give directly to them based on thier own beliefs.""
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Well folks, now we know how much credence to give to posts from Sawzaw, who is obviously a fully paid up member of the well known "Church of the Wholly Undecided".

The only thing he is absolutely sure of is that he is either a Republican or a Democrat, depending on his mood, and the current state of his short term memory.

I hope this will help him to come to terms with his political identity, should he ever find out what it is.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Sawzaw
Date: 10 Apr 10 - 11:16 AM

Whiziwig has difficulty determining good from bad, truth from propaganda. He is forced to be this way due to tribal thinking.

Everything is judged on an all bad or all good basis depending on which tribe is involved.

Therefore he must condemn anybody that disagrees with his tribe. Then he accuses the other tribe of doing the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Sawzaw
Date: 10 Apr 10 - 11:45 AM

IlLiteralist Bobert:

You are unable to determine for sure if something is this way or that. You use fuzzy thinking to prove anything.

It is like your rants on polls and stats. You can prove or disprove anything with polls and numbers so they are not conclusive and should not be depended on.

Bobert can can prove or disprove anything with his fuzzy logic.

He can use sweet tater pie to prove whether somebody said something or not.

He can brag about his own illegal activities and condemn others for theirs using his fuzzy logic.

The ego does that to a person. Their ego overpowers their logic and forces them to defend their incorrect statements to the death.

Bobert, can you use your logic to prove that Obama bought a beater airplane for his campaign? Or will your ego force you to avoid answering the question by deeming it irrelevant somehow?

Remember, you were presented with all of the evidence and statements from the airline before you made your irreversible, infallible, cast in stone, never to be questioned "Bobert fact".

Are you going to run like pigs from a gun when asked a straight up question? Did Obama buy his own airplane or not?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Apr 10 - 12:47 PM

How could Obama buy his own airplane? He doesn't know anything about airplanes.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Apr 10 - 01:29 PM

You don't have to know anything about airplanes to buy one. ;-) You just have to have enough money. Then you hire a pilot.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Apr 10 - 07:11 PM

Obama would look good in the back seat of an old WWI bi-plane, with a leather skull cap and goggles

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Apr 10 - 08:56 PM

I suppose... ;-) One good thing about those planes...if the engine fails, you can easily land them on any available piece of flat ground.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Lox
Date: 10 Apr 10 - 09:01 PM

"Obama would look good in the back seat of an old WWI bi-plane, with a leather skull cap and goggles"

haha - awesome!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Apr 10 - 09:04 PM

Well, Sawz... Not one person in the world knows the answer to the question about the success of the surge... We do know that when we started paying Sunnis not to shoot at us that they quit shooting at us... Heck, like you suggest, maybe they quit shooting at us because we had sent in more troops but that kinda doesn't match up with the istory of the Iraq war too well in that troop level had fluctuated up and down before the surge...

The problem I have with the surge is that most Americans are completely unaware of of components of it... They have been misled into thinking it was purely more troops yet that is not correct... It was an entire new concept that Gen Petrais came up with that had troops embedded in the neighborhoods they patrolled during the day but now stayed in those areas at night... And, yes, it was also about scmoozing the Sunnis and paying them not to fight with US...

I don't ven think that Bish understood the component of the surge or he would have renamed it to something that better represwented the US's shift in strategy which had little to do with increased troop levels... That is reality, Sawz... You can play games with it all you want... I really don't care about your games... That's just something you do for you entertainment and not anything that intersts me...

Yo, Rigs... I love the picture of Obama in the back of a bi-plane... Hey, I'd be more than willing to fly front seat if he can get me cleared to fly him without an "offical" pilot's license... Details... Yeah, I'd love to take him up.. Maybe he could get us cleared to fluy into restricted air space and we could do a little touring around DC.. That would be a gas...

As for Obama's campaign plane... All I know is that it was used, had alot of hours on it and had some mechanical troubles during the campaign... That, in my book, qualifies as a "beater"... Kinda like the junk I used to fly... You know, beaters... The one I crashed on my 16th birthday was built in the 30's... Hey, it was an okay plane... Kinda... No instruments to speak of... Kinda like an old Volkswagen... Kinda like Obama's campaign plane compared to AirForceOne... BTW, folks, how many of ya'll know that there are two idential AirForceOnes and that when the president has to make a trip that both are prepared as if they are the one that is going to be used??? Purdy interesting, ain't it... They don't ven tell the crew which plane is going up...

Yeah, I know... Sawz is gonna say, "Prove it"... I can't... But it is true... I know a crew member of AirForceOne... That's all I am going to say on this so don't bother buggin' me about it 'cause. like I said, that's all I'm going to say... Period...

What else??? Well, nothing... Nice day in the mountins... Found my first "mergals" (morells) mushrooms this afternoon so life is good...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Sawzaw
Date: 11 Apr 10 - 01:47 AM

"Not one person in the world knows the answer to the question about the success of the surge"

So Obama is talking through his ass when he said it worked?

"how many of ya'll know that there are two identical Air Force Ones"

About every 5th grader on up.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Apr 10 - 10:43 AM

"You don't have to know anything about airplanes to buy one... You just have to have enough money. Then you hire a pilot."


             That works okay as long as your interests and the pilot's interests coincide, but when the don't...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Apr 10 - 01:23 PM

What Obama is doing, Sawzaw, is what all presidents do. He's trying to create the impression that everything is working out as planned...and that his approach is the right one to take. ;-) He's not the least bit unusual in that respect.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Apr 10 - 08:01 AM

Probably because he didn't know what the plan was in the first place. When something unusual happens the pupeteers step in and say, "Yeah, that's it, right on scheduel."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Apr 10 - 12:03 PM

""Whiziwig has difficulty determining good from bad, truth from propaganda. He is forced to be this way due to tribal thinking.

Everything is judged on an all bad or all good basis depending on which tribe is involved.

Therefore he must condemn anybody that disagrees with his tribe. Then he accuses the other tribe of doing the same.""

If you knew anything at all about me (which, I assure you, you do not), you would know that I never blindly accept the opinions or statements of others.

So, having taken care of the specious "tribal" argument, I will point out that I disagree with your viewpoint because, over 69 years on this planet, I have heard the same views from much smarter sources, and they were equally wrong.

I have been reading your posts for long enough to be able to form an opinion of my very own.

They are either Republican propaganda crap, or thinly disguised Republican propaganda crap, masquerading as fair minded, or even Democrat.

No amount of ego massaging from Little Hawk will change the fact that I have come to this conclusion entirely from my own observations.

Somebody once asked me to stand as a candidate, and I refused, on the grounds that NO political party would put up with my insistence on making up my own mind. I would inevitably be saying NO when they wanted a YES, and vice versa.

So don't presume to know how I make my choices pal. You don't have the smarts to work it out.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Amos
Date: 12 Apr 10 - 12:36 PM

Sawz:

You're bouncing off the bumper again, pal. Bobert was commenting on Bush's Iraq surge, which was coincident with the Awakening, and a couple of other vectors.

Your sarcasm about Obama was in the context of the Afghanistan/Pakistan surge. A different thing.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Apr 10 - 05:12 PM

Quite aside from political partisan loyalties (which are usually a major impediment to achieving fairness and objectivity)...there are personal group loyalties and hostilities which will always arise within any club or regular gathering of human beings. Certain people get accustomed to banding together in groups against certain other people. Cliques form. Gangs form. Grudges build up. And that's when it starts to get nasty. The past history of disagreements between certain individuals serves as a firm foundation for further disagreements between those same people...almost regardless of what they said in their last post.

What is seen in this case is more a playing out and rehashing of old, tired emotional baggage than a rational discussion of actual issues.

It's one of the things that makes most clubs and associations of people a bit of a drag after awhile.

But then again, what is one to do with one's restless mind if one can't turn on the computer every day and fight with distant people whom one may never meet about stuff that neither one can likely have any real effect upon? ;-) To be denied such an emotional outlet for latent hostility might lead to depression, frustration, and progressive dementia. It might cause you to kick the dog, murder your spouse, or rob the local bank.

So perhaps it's a good thing! ;-)

Have at it, gentlemen.

(I bet Obama runs into this sort of shit all the time too...)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Apr 10 - 07:45 PM

Yer right, LH... Seein' as you seem to agree with Sawz about lots of stuff maybe you could get him to see a competent thearapist about his obsession of playing fact-checker-from-Hell with just about everything I say... It's become an obsesssion with him not only here but at least at one other website where he has stalked me... Actually, I'm not sue if he stalked me from that one to yhere or vice-versa... I am, however, 99% sure that he was also "Old Guy" and "Dickey" from the style of the posts and certtain things he has confronted me about that were addressed to those two handles...

As for a "cordial discussion" about "The Surge"... Wonder why the righties don't want to talk about it in any way that might show that they have been beating progressives over the head with "The Surge Bat" for a long time now but refuse to talk about what "The Surge" really was... Maybe they don't know??? I explained the components of it above... Amos threw in the "Awakening" aspect...

Why can't we have that "cordial discussion" about what it reallly was??? Well, I'll tell you why... Because it flys in the face of what the right wants people to think... The have neatly revised history to their liking and don't want that neatness disturbed...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Apr 10 - 08:05 PM

""What is seen in this case is more a playing out and rehashing of old, tired emotional baggage than a rational discussion of actual issues.

It's one of the things that makes most clubs and associations of people a bit of a drag after awhile.""

There you have it folks. Bow down and acknowledge the wise words of the all seeing, all knowing, Little Hawk.

How would we ever be able to decide what we believe without his patronising, disrespectful input?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Apr 10 - 09:10 PM

I don't care what you believe, Don. That's your business, not mine. Just stop insulting and bullying the people who don't happen to agree with you about some issue or another.

I'm saying that your interpersonal behaviour toward others matters to me a hell of a lot more than your beliefs. I could say the same of anyone who lived beside me in a neighborhood or met me on the street. I don't care what their beliefs are. It's not my business, but I care how they treat other people.

Beliefs are an inner matter, and I keep mine to myself most of the time. Behaviour is an outward matter, and it affects people directly.

Beliefs are usually just a bunch of talk. Bla! Bla! Bla!

Behaviour is the REAL thing. You want to know what you're dealing with with a person? Never mind about his stated "beliefs"...watch his behaviour. That will tell you what you're dealing with.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 10 - 07:56 AM

"Just stop insulting and bullying the people who don't happen to agree with you about some issue or another."

He can't do that.

Since he has no valid basis to defend his own opinions, nor to attack the opinions of others, he is forced to attack the people who disagree with him.

Or at least that is what is to be derived from his past posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Lox
Date: 13 Apr 10 - 08:17 AM

I think we can thank Don for contributing to these dicussions by giving his point of view.

We can also thank Little Hawk for being nice to everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 Apr 10 - 07:06 PM

""He can't do that.

Since he has no valid basis to defend his own opinions, nor to attack the opinions of others, he is forced to attack the people who disagree with him.

Or at least that is what is to be derived from his past posts.""

Whereas, of course, on the myriad occasions when you indulge, it's legitimate debate.

ROFL
Don T.