BS: impotent futile anger...???

Subject: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jun 17 - 10:32 PM

what can us old men do...???


big picture - terrorists and their atrocities..

small picture... dog shit on pavements and smokers in beer gardens...

nearly got in a fight tonight about 70s versus 90s music...


he was 33 and smaller than me so we agreed he should let his brother take him back to the travel lodge...


what is the world coming to..???
enough to make a bloke read the daily mail...????

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 01:38 AM

I recommend Aswagandha, herbal, one 1300 mg capsule twice per day.
Very calming for the nerves, legal, won't give you lung-cancer.

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 01:39 AM

Or even Ashwagandha. 😎

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 03:17 AM

Old women can do only the same. One of the things I miss nowadays is the simple joys of living. It gets harder and harder to maintain....

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 06:08 AM

We mustn't despair but remain strong and stable. We have seen many bad times before, and there will be many after we are gone.

My parents went through WW2, my grandfather WW1. Violence, horror, evil, aggression and selfishness have always been with us.

It's important not to become bitter and hate-filled. As older folk, we can be wise and reassuring. Our role now is not to 'do' anything, but to 'be' well-rooted old oak trees for the younger ones to cling to.

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Stu
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 06:25 AM

Old white men could do one thing... think about the youth and the future. Regardless of whether they like it or not the world has changed and left them behind. I'm a generation behind the old white men but I feel it changing, but we have to understand that the world of our Empires has crumbled and unity, not division is the key to moving forward as a species.

Old white people have brought us Brexit and Trump, the two most regressive and damaging things they could have inflicted on the young people of today. In the UK we are entering a new era of isolationism and sucking up to the wilful idiocy of Trump and the GOP, the US has surrendered it's place as leader of the free world in order to pursue a path of ignorance and unfettered free-market corporate governance of the worst possible kind.

Here in the UK our young people cannot afford homes, see their health service being flogged off and our government backing the sheer stupidity of Trump whilst eschewing the progressive politics of Europe, which we are and always will be a part of. Our universities are emptying of european scientists as the ever-xenophioblic right wing attempt to use them as pawns in a game that will see an influx of - you guessed it - old white expats coming back to use the NHS when they feel like it.

The establishment has won, and it won because told white people felt safer with their Mays and Farages than with anyone with an ounce of intellect or of a progressive bent. They will make sure May gets back in despite the fact she treats them like shit and might well shorten their lives. Self-intereest trumps the common good for many people it seems.

It's ever been thus I guess. We never learn.

"Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'."

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 10:13 AM

Usual and totally predictable clichéd rant there Stu

In what way have "Old white people have brought us Brexit and Trump"

As for your contention that "In the UK we are entering a new era of isolationism and sucking up to the wilful idiocy of Trump and the GOP", that is patently wrong in as much as anyone who has anything to do with the Leave campaign and the government since the EU Referendum has stated that the aim post departure from the EU will see the UK looking to engage with the rest of the world as we did prior to our joining the EU - that does not sound like an isolationist policy to me.

Here in the UK our young people cannot afford homes - Mortgage rates have never ever been lower than they are today. There has never ever been better deals on offer to first time buyers.

Tell me Stu what parts of our health service are being, or have been, flogged off?

In what way has our government backed the sheer stupidity of Trump?

What progressive policies of Europe have we eschewed?

The British Isles were as much part of Europe prior to 1973 as they will be post Brexit.

By the way what is wrong with "old white expats coming back to use the NHS when they feel like it" - They after all paid into it all their working lives and they are fully entitled to make use of their NHS - Unlike the mass of medical tourists, who have never contributed a penny towards it, that fly into the UK to get free treatment then blithely fly out again.

Good God I hope that you are not putting forward Corbyn & Co as being "anyone with an ounce of intellect or of a progressive bent"!!! What on earth is progressive of returning to the 1970s?

Funny contradiction that appears not to have registered with this intellectual giant Stu.

Corbyn says that he will keep and accept free movement of labour as part of a post-Brexit agreement with the EU. In the same breath he says that he will prevent foreign contract labour working in the UK - Care to tell us how that works? If he accepts free movement he cannot block anything.

Another one is that Corbyn says that he will immediately, unilaterally guarantee the right of residence to all EU nationals currently living and working in the UK. OK then Stu what is his bargaining tool to win equivalent rights for Britons working and living in the EU?

In any election Stu, "self-interest" has always played a major role, this time round will be no exception.

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 10:35 AM

To the contrary, a set of voters in the US were shown to not vote in their own self interest, those Trump voters who were acting on an ideology despite the unlikely chance of a beneficial outcome. It's a rather troubling shift, part of the Internet age in which they get into a space where they only hear a certain set of voices (such as FOX News) and don't look farther for the rest of the story. They voted against health care, they voted against support for their communities. They voted to try to impose their religious beliefs on their neighbors, despite the separation of church and state. They let him feed into their basest biases, their bigottry, because they saw him rant, mimic, lie, discriminate, and generally misbehave in a way they have kept hidden because it isn't socially acceptable. This barely-literate demagogue not only convinced them to vote against their own best interest, he unleashed their misbehavior.

Trump isn't thinking about youth and the future, EXCEPT in the context of the younger members of his family and their ability to continue to enrich themselves at the public trough. And as he does this out in the open, those voters (described above) cheer him on. He will trip up, and he will fall. But it will be a big messy splat when it happens, and this system of government will return to functionality, but a lot of rules will need to be firmed up and cleared up.

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 11:17 AM

Hear Hear!!!

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 12:07 PM

"Tell me Stu what parts of our health service are being, or have been, flogged off?
"Theresa May has left the door open for the greater involvement of US corporations in British healthcare as she arrives in America to lay the groundwork for a future trade deal.
Ms May would only say that she was committed to a health service that is free at the point of delivery, but made no comment on whether the NHS would be off the table in any future talks.
Trade and the UK's economic relationship with the US will be one of the key pillars of the Prime Minister's visit to Philadelphia and Washington DC.
Asked whether health services might form a part of a potential deal, she said: "We're at the start of the process of talking about a trade deal. We're both very clear that we want a trade deal."

"In what way has our government backed the sheer stupidity of Trump?"
"Theresa May has repeatedly refused to condemn Donald Trump's ban on refugees and entry for citizens of seven Muslim-majority nations after meeting with Turkish leaders."
"Downing Street has defended Theresa May not signing up to a joint declaration by Germany, France and Italy in opposition to Donald Trump's withdrawal from the Paris climate accord by stressing that other countries also chose a different path.
A source pointed out that Japan and Canada had not signed up to the letter and said the prime minister's approach was "consistent as to how we approach dealings with international leaders".

What progressive policies of Europe have we eschewed?
The EU is set to inflict a double humiliation on Theresa May, stripping Britain of its European agencies within weeks, while formally rejecting the prime minister's calls for early trade talks.
The Observer has learned that EU diplomats agreed their uncompromising position at a crunch meeting on Tuesday, held to set out the union's strategy in the talks due to start next month.
A beauty contest between member states who want the European banking and medicine agencies, currently located in London, will begin within two weeks, with selection criteria to be unveiled by the president of the European council, Donald Tusk.
The European Banking Authority and the European Medicines Agency employ about 1,000 people, many of them British, and provide a hub for businesses in the UK. It is understood that the EU's chief negotiator hopes the agencies will know their new locations by June, although the process may take longer. Cities such as Frankfurt, Milan, Amsterdam and Paris are competing to take the agencies, which are regarded as among the EU's crown jewels.

DONALD Trump has shunned Britain and put the UK second-in-line behind the European Union for a new free trade deal with the US, according to Washington officials.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: keberoxu
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 12:11 PM

Why should not old men be mad?
Some have known a likely lad
That had a sound fly-fisher's wrist
Turn to a drunken journalist;
A woman that knew all Dante once
Live to bear children to a dunce;
A Helen of social welfare dream
Climb on a wagonette to scream.

Some think it a matter of course that chance
Should starve good men and bad advance,
That if their neighbors figured plain,
As though upon a lighted screen,
No single story would they find
Of an unbroken happy mind,
A finish worthy of the start.

Young men know nothing of this sort,
Observant old men know it well;
And when they know what old books tell,
And that no better can be had,
Know why an old man should be mad.

--William Butler Yeats

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 12:32 PM

Very nice K.

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 12:56 PM

Thanks for that Jom.

So no part of the NHS has actually been flogged off as Stu claimed

Immigration into the United States of America is the sole concern of the government of the United States of America - NOTHING whatsoever to do with the British Government who certainly have no business at all interfering or commenting on it.

Theresa May was one of the first government leaders to express disappointment with Trump's decision in relation to the Paris Agreement. That is on record, why on earth does the Prime Minister of Great Britain have to sign a letter cobbled together by anyone else?

So no evidence of Great Britain kowtowing to the USA either Jom.

Likewise it would appear that we have not "eschewed" any EU policy but as Jom has pointed out that the EU are rather vindictively declaring before any meetings have taken place that their intention is to punish the UK for having the temerity to exercise it's democratic right to leave their cosy little club. Only one thing wrong with that negotiating tack Jom, the UK buys more from the EU than the EU buys from us, so they are ridding themselves of one of their best customers and the EU's second largest net contributor. Theresa May is perfectly correct in saying that "No Deal is better than a Bad Deal". In the case of "No Deal" the UK walks away without paying the EU a single penny. By the way Jom, even with the agencies you mention being relocated London will still remain as the largest international financial hub in the world.

As far as international trade deals go Jom the EU's track record is not really all that great. In the past three decades Switzerland and Singapore have negotiated far more international trade deals that the EU have done, primarily because the EU is fiercely protectionist. It is easier for a single country to negotiate a trade deal than for a group of 27 countries where unanimous agreement must be reached before any deal is made. With regard to a trade deal with the USA? The UK will have one long before the EU will.

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 02:11 PM

You know what I realised the other day?Jom and Terry is a spoonerism.

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 03:01 PM

"So no part of the NHS has actually been flogged off as Stu claimed"
It's been downgraded and degraded and selling off is on the cards
WE've just buried a sister who died of a nasty dose of underfunding, despite the efforts of an overworked and underpaid staff who spends more time fighting the shortages than they do fighting illnesses
"Immigration into the United States of America is the sole concern of the government of the United States of America"
The treatment of nationalities and ethnic minorities is a human rights issue to the point of being an international crime - that's why the Nazis were tried at Nuremberg
I expect our elected leaders to recognise that when asked to oppose such behaviour
As it turns out, we were supporting something that was ruled illegal in American law.
Daisy May might have "expressed disappointment" but she refused to sign a protest, then made her real opinions clear by offering that two other countries refused to sighn - big deal!
Back to sott out the other bullshit later
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Jun 17 - 02:43 AM

So no part of the NHS has been flogged off as Stu claimed - that is the fact of the matter - Stu was attempting to spread information that is a total misrepresentation of what the case actually is and it would appear Jom as though you are trying to support that - "Made-Up-Shit".

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Jun 17 - 03:33 AM

"So no part of the NHS has been flogged off as Stu claimed - "
Sections of The N.H.S. have been privatised and weakened for as long as I can remember and this present load of garbage are proposing more of the same
ONE WAY ROAD to PRIVATISATION
MORE
And a bit more (can't blue clickie)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nhs-privatisation-charges-professionals-in-house-agency-a7426966.html
All made up shit, I presume?
The only person who has consistently spread misinformation is you - your last sick efforts being attributing specific motives to the Manchester bomber based on "statements by friends and family" invented by you.
You attempted to make political capital on the deaths of young people by spreading misinformation, and when you were found out, you did your usual and walked away from it.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Stu
Date: 05 Jun 17 - 04:25 AM

"Tell me Stu what parts of our health service are being, or have been, flogged off?"

You know full well T. But to spell in out for you:

Plasma Services in 2013. Even you might remember the furore over this debacle.

The original sale went through in 2013. To a company that Mitt Romney was involved in.

NHS Professionals The staffing agency - flogged off.

Services supplied by NHS trust sold to private firms by the introduction of an internal free market. Services flogged off to Branson etc

... and that's where I stop to do some work.


"Stu was attempting to spread information that is a total misrepresentation of what the case actually is"

You're fibbing. Be nice Mr. T, your faux outrage and boorish manner ill becomes a gentleman.

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Jun 17 - 04:36 AM

Jom, I do wish that you would read, and make some effort to understand the articles you supply links to. Neither of those above state that any of the NHS has been flogged off as Stu claimed in this thread.

Oh and Jom why not ask yourself why Stu himself is not contributing to this discussion since making his totally untrue claim.

On the Manchester thing I gave the reasons give by his father and brother - you IIRC gave his reasons according to his sister. Who oddly enough Jom were the same - in retaliation for airstrikes in Syria.

Love to know what political capital it was I was trying to make - I leave that sort of shit to clowns such as yourself - I tend to give my opinion backed by fact and reason.

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Jun 17 - 04:58 AM

Nicely timed Stu:

Plasma Services, or more correctly Plasma Resources UK Ltd, was never ever part of the NHS and that I assume you well know. They were a Government owned company that was contracted to supply plasma to the NHS.

The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Simon Burns)

I am announcing today that the Government will be exploring new opportunities for the future development of our government-owned limited company, Plasma Resources UK Ltd (PRUK).

The Department has successfully completed the first stages of the combination of its plasma products companies; which consist of the UK based fractionation facility Bio Products Laboratory Ltd (BPL) and the US based plasma supply company, DCI Inc. These two companies have been brought together under the Department of Health owned parent company PRUK.

Looking forward to the next phase of development, we have carefully examined the strategic options that will best allow the companies to grow and be successful in an established global industry, whilst also seeking to ensure jobs are maintained in the bioscience sector of the economy.

To ensure the continued success of PRUK, the future business strategy should address the need for investment in BPL's specialist plant and skilled workforce in order to create more advanced products. PRUK should also continue to harness the potential of the US-based operations at DCI Inc which is well placed to develop ​its own portfolio. This requirement for further investment comes at a time when the Department of Health and the NHS is facing ever-increasing demands on its resources and must focus on delivering its front-line services.

Our conclusion is therefore that we will now assess development opportunities in conjunction with the private sector, seeking to gain a valuable contribution from not only a financial perspective, but also their operational expertise.

We have therefore appointed financial advisers to consider the most appropriate level of department ownership to deliver the Department's objectives. This work will examine, in detail, the sale of all or part of the business, as well as other structures, to determine the best solution for the business, its employees, the NHS and taxpayers. Any future partner or investor would be chosen through a fair and open process and will be able to demonstrate the necessary skills, experience and resources to work with the companies to help them realise their potential and to develop their range of products.

As part of this process, we will be ensuring that any option continues to safeguard the interests of patients, that supplies of current products are secure and that resources are available to develop new products, such that NHS patients continue to receive the best possible care.

NHS Professionals?? The resources of the NHS should concern itself with matters related to Health and Patient welfare - NOT running and employment agency for temporary staff.

The "sell offs" of service provision contracts I see involved bids from NHS Foundation Trusts that were unsuccessful so they must not have been commercially competitive or attractive to the NHS Managers reviewing the bids. The result does not mean that those NHS Foundation Trusts cease to exist.

And damned right get back to work that is what they pay you for, not misrepresenting things on an online forum.

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Stu
Date: 05 Jun 17 - 04:59 AM

"Oh and Jom why not ask yourself why Stu himself is not contributing to this discussion since making his totally untrue claim."

See above. Also,best not speculate as to my personal circumstances, there could be any number of reasons I was not contributing to the discussion that have little to do with evasion as implied and lots to do with living a life.

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Stu
Date: 05 Jun 17 - 05:03 AM

It's a sell off T, however it's couched in business wankspeak, and everyone acknowledges that.

I work for myself by the way, so I'll decide when and where I work.

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Jun 17 - 06:39 AM

""Free speech"
In the form of a press owned by millionaires who have spent years campaigning for the party of their choice, and a govenment who are elected on promises they never keep.
"Belief in equality for all?"
What!!!!!
Go look ar the steadily increasing gap between HAVES and HAVE NOTS in Britain, the creeping privatisation of health,
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/nhs-health-service-healthcare-privatisation-a7160771.html
the cost of sending your children to be educated to a HIGHER LEVEL and the massive gap between those living in the soft-underbelly southeast and the real Britain
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/north-south-divide-uk-british-education-economy-gender-pay-gap-difference-a7484046.html
THen there's CHILDCARE
This is how "EQUAL for ALL" Britain is today.
I suppose 'freedom of association' means we can all sit in the park and compare notes!!
Jim Carroll"
Read it and understood it - health is being gradualy privar=tised and your persistent attempts to talk ppeople down in your evasively arrogant way (Jom) makes it obvious that you realise you have once more put your foot cleanly in your moth again.
Address the facts of what is happening the pioneering Labour's Jewel in the Crown for the British people - opposed by your shitty lot then and steadily undermined since
Sam Larner had it summed up perfectly with his 19th century verse:
"If life was a thing that money could buy,
The rich would live and the poor would die"
True back then - still true
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Jun 17 - 11:05 AM

What's this Jom - impotent futile anger at the closing of the London Terrorist Thread? So you implant your contribution to that thread here to keep the ball rolling? But as you are on that tack - In no way, shape, or form does Qatar rely on "Little Britain", an Anglophobic and derisory term if ever I read one, for arms - the major suppliers of their weapons happen to be France, Germany and the USA.

Now back onto the topic of this thread please.

You stated Stu that bits of the NHS had been flogged off - So far none of the links and scare stories supplied support that contention of yours Plasma Resources was never ever owned, or operated by the NHS. That is the fact, something we need more of, instead of inaccurate emotive twaddle.

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jun 17 - 11:19 AM

I think my favourite anagram of impotent futile anger must be A Fleeting Tripe Mount. Sums up a lot of Mudcat postings.

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Jun 17 - 11:51 AM

Blimey... if I can start off a thread as informative and entertaining as this when I've been on a 2 day happy hot weather drinking binge..

..imagine how good a thread it could be if I'd been drinking all week...!!!??? 😜


[thought I'd better get a quick post in before the thread gets closed down.....]

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Jun 17 - 12:42 PM

"What's this Jom - impotent futile anger at the closing of the London Terrorist Thread? "
You raised the silly idea of equality in Britain - not me - shot down in flames again
Britain's arms supply to Qatar has trebled over the last couple of years - we do what we can to keep the flag of western civilisation flying
Lets see if that trade stops now that the State has been linked to terrorism
More denials on the NHS despite having been given masses of statements and providing none of your own - surprise, surprise!
Jim Carroll

Better start putting more "Joms" - your bullshit isn't working again
Department of Health (DH) figures show that the amount of its funding that has gone to "independent sector providers" more than doubled from £4.1bn in 2009-10, Labour's last year in power, to £8.7bn in 2015-16.
Slow-release privatisation has also seen the percentage of the DH budget finding its way into private hands rising from 4% in 2009-10 to 8% in the last financial year.
A few privatisation contracts involve huge sums. Several GP-led NHS clinical commissioning groups (CCGs) in Staffordshire caused controversy in 2014-15 when they sought to hand 10-year contracts for cancer and end-of-life care worth £1.2bn to a private provider, though those plans have been held up after NHS England became involved. Most contracts are smaller, sometimes for a few million pounds.
In January,however, Richard Branson's Virgin Care group – which has won a growing number of NHS contracts – was awarded a £126m contract to provide a range of health services at hospitals in north Kent, including home visits and community hospital care. It is unclear what the impact of that tendering decision will be on the failed NHS bidder, Kent Community Health NHS Foundation Trust, which has lost a key source of income.
Similarly, there are serious concerns about the effect on Southport and Ormskirk NHS Trust now that West Lancashire CCG has opted to outsource a range of urgent care services, such as GP out-of-hours services and walk-in centres. Having rejected its local acute trust's bid, the CCG remains in talks with United Healthcare and Virgin Care about the contract.
"This group of people [the CCG] are taking decisions which are destabilising the future of our local hospital and could lead to NHS services being privatised," the local Labour MP Rosie Cooper said recently. Local residents were disgusted, she added. In its response, the CCG said: "This re-procurement of local community health services is standard practice for CCGs. This process is subject to national procurement legislation which requires the CCGs to enable both NGS and independent [private] providers to compete."
Will this creeping privatisation continue? Almost certainly. The NHS's financial squeeze, coupled with private firms' ability to undercut NHS providers, plus the obligation imposed on CCGs by the coalition's shakeup of the NHS in 2012, together mean that more and more CCGs are likely to feel obliged to outsource more and more contracts, despite concerns about the quality of service that may ensue.
Concern about the quality of NHS-funded inpatient care for mental health problems in Priory hospitals is merely the latest reminder that private providers do not always meet the highest standards.
Concern about NHS privatisation has grown since the Conservatives won last year's general election. Some in the healthcare profession, such as Dr Kailash Chand, who until recently was the vice-chair of the British Medical Association, see growing outsourcing as part of an unacknowledged Tory plan to deliberately run down the NHS and pave the way for the replacement of its unique funding model with a new setup in which private health insurers and private medical care are central.
Last month the then health minister George Freeman called for an end to the "apartheid" between the NHS and private sector. "In my party, we have to end the apartheid that suggests the private sector does all the innovation and entrepreneurship and the public sector just treats people … The NHS is the great engine of innovation that can drive that partnership," he said in a speech to the Reform thinktank. There also needed to be "a debate about how we fund health and care in the 21st century", he added.
Freeman has since acquired a position of much greater significance under Theresa May, as chair of her policy board.

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jun 17 - 01:02 PM

Anger is all that is left of the left The new world order of billionaires making trillion dollar privatizing deals are all a fait d'compli.   
Democracy was a good idea but it has been overcome by money, work arounds, loopholes and fear politics. We have the worst politicians and courts money can buy.

Corporate fascism is the game today.

The warnings by the wise from 1930 to 1950 are needed more than ever but are thinner cries in the wind with every passing mortal year until the wise voices are silent, hidden between pages unread or burned.

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Jun 17 - 05:17 PM

"Britain's arms supply to Qatar has trebled over the last couple of years"

Any proof of that Jom?

The British vehicles they use - we no longer produce. Same goes for the anti-aircraft missiles "Blowpipe" and "Rapier", and the helicopters (Obsolete S61N Sea Kings). So sales of what have trebled over the last couple of years - they do not use British weapons, their main suppliers are the French, the Germans and the Americans.

"Department of Health (DH) figures show that the amount of its funding that has gone to "independent sector providers" more than doubled from £4.1bn in 2009-10, Labour's last year in power, to £8.7bn in 2015-16.
Slow-release privatisation has also seen the percentage of the DH budget finding its way into private hands rising from 4% in 2009-10 to 8% in the last financial year." - quoted from an article that Jom plainly did not understand A Guianard wasn't it Jom?

So "independent sector providers" have doubled their share of the Department of Health (Which is NOT the NHS) from 4% to 8% - So where does the remaining 92% of the Department of Health's budget go then Jom?

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Jun 17 - 07:44 PM

"Any proof of that Jom?"
Only documented evidence, I'm afraid - what have you got
Unfortunately my figures were a litle out-of date thoigh
Tha Guardian reported four months ago that "UK exports of small arms, ammunition and armoured vehicles to the United Arab Emirates jumped from £18.3m to £93.2m, to Qatar from £2.3m to £33.4m, and to Egypt from £2.5m to £34.7m."
In 2014 - this was reported:
"As the market has expanded, successive governments have gone to extraordinary lengths to promote the sector. Tony Blair intervened to prevent an investigation into arms exports to Riyadh; Cameron assiduously courted Saudi royalty; earlier this year the defence secretary, Michael Fallon, led a UK delegation to Qatar to promote sales of the Eurofighter jet.

The Middle East is considered by the government to be a priority market. Two-thirds of all arms exports go to the region. In the last two years the UK has agreed arms deals worth £388m with the United Arab Emirates, £170m with Qatar, £120m with Oman and £24m with Bahrain."
"The British vehicles they use"
Just like the ammo we didn't sell to Assad eh?
Have you ever produced backup to your desperately invented statements?
My NHS staements came fro a wide selection of sources while yours came from - whoops, nearly forgot - you don't bother with that shit, do you?
Half of £2bn NHS cash injection spent on outsourced private care providers labelled a 'disgrace'
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nhs-cash-injection-2-billion-spent-outsourcing-private-care-providers-disgrace-healthcare-service-a7651531.html
This is getting more and more like Bin Laden the NOT businessman
Do you never get tired of humiliating yourself?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Jun 17 - 04:25 AM

Thumbnail of Qatar's Armed Forces & their equipment

Your trouble Jom would appear to be that you read stuff but you seem incapable of understanding what is actually being said.

Your first line of waffle about arms sales to Qatar was it so out of date that you didn't want to put a date on it?

Fallon travelled in vain the Qatari Air Ministry opted to buy the French Rafale instead of the Eurofighter the deal was signed in 2014.

Of course the British Government considers the area of the Arabian Gulf to be a priority market, Britain has bi-lateral defence agreements with the U.A.E. (Formerly British Protectorates known as the Trucial States), Bahrain, Kuwait and Oman.

On Osama bin Laden Jom:

Born March 10, 1957 – Killed May 2, 2011.

1968 to 1976 - he attended the élite secular Al-Thager Model School.

1976 to 1979 or 1981 - King Abdulaziz University. Rather vague as to what he actually studied or what qualification he graduated with. The choices are civil engineering, public administration, or nothing at all.

1979 to 1988 - In Pakistan working with Abdullah Azzam providing support for those fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan. In 1984 they formed the Maktab al-Khidamat, which funneled money, arms and fighters from around the Arab world into Afghanistan.

1988 to 1990 - Formation and establishment of Al-Qaeda in Pakistan.

1990 to 1992 - In Saudi Arabia where he offered the King his men to help protect the Kingdom from Saddam Hussein. This offer was rejected in favour of help from the UN Coalition. In 1992 Osama bin Laden was banished from Saudi Arabia and went into exile in Sudan.

1992 to 1996 - In the Sudan, where he invested in businesses (He did not run them). He also forged stronger links with Egyptian Islamic Jihad (Original supporters of the formation of Al-Qaeda back in 1988). During this time Al-Qaeda were implicated in the 1993 attack on the World Trade Centre in New York which resulted in Osama bin Laden being stripped of his Saudi citizenship and his family cutting him off financially. In 1995 Al-Qaeda and the EIJ were implicated in an attempted assassination of Hosni Mubarak in 1995. Subject to an assassination attempt on his own life and no longer feeling either welcome or secure in Sudan on May 18th, 1996 Osama bin Laden left Sudan and flew to Afghanistan.

1996 to 2001 - Afghanistan, where under the protection of Mullah Omar and the Taliban Al-Qaeda organised and planned the following international terrorist strikes:

1996 - Khobar Towers Saudi Arabia
1998 - US Embassy bombings in Nairobi, Kenya and in Dar-e-salam
2000 - Attack on the USS Cole
2001 - Attacks on the World Trade Centre, the Pentagon and one other unspecified target in Washington DC.

Also in this time Osama bin Laden issued two fatwas declaring his Caliphate and his war on the USA and the West.

In November 2001 the USA along with Australian and other NATO Allies intervene in the ongoing civil war in Afghanistan on the side of the Northern Alliance and drive the Taliban and Al-Qaeda out of Afghanistan. Sometime late in 2001 or early in 2002 Osama bin Laden goes into hiding in Pakistan.

2002 to 2011 - In hiding in Pakistan where he is basically a total irrelevance.

Now then Jom I make it that the man lived just over 54 years in which time he was:

Child - 11 years or 20.4% of his life
In education - 11 years or 20.4% of his life
Actively involved in supporting terrorist causes - 20 years or 37% of his life.
In hiding - 9 years or 16.7% of his life
An investor in Sudan as cover for his international terrorist activities - 4 years or 7.4% of his life

And this is the man Jom describes as a BUSINESSMAN. Ever heard of rational thought, or perspective Jom?

It would appear that you are the only person continually humiliating yourself here Jom.

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Jun 17 - 05:19 AM

Lovely example of The Theresa May Scool of ansering questions - lorra, lorra words signifying nothing
The sale of arms to Qartar and Saudi was as "ridiculously out of date" as 2017 - sorry - couldn't find an edition of tomorrow's paper.
Stupid little man
The rest it total smokescreen waffle
We sell arms to despotic regimes, some of whom are linked to terrorists - Qatar is one of those Saudi is another
Saudi Arabia a=was linked to 9/11 - Qatar has become too much of a terrorist hot-potato for some Muslim states - we sell them arms - end of story.
Six "Joms" on your foot-in-mouth Richter Scale - desperation indeed!!
Privatisation of the NHS seems to have don a John Wayne and ridden off into the sunset to join all the other examples of your foot-in-mouths
Christian thugs appear to have put a small bomb into a Galway Mosque - religious terrorism seems to know no borders
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: impotent futile anger...???
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Jun 17 - 06:17 AM

See you didn't bother opening the link then Jom. You're as much of a disaster on military matters and security as Dianne Abbott.

Your figures as reported by the obviously well informed and unbiased Guianard are all over the place and simply do not make sense.

World's Top Arms Exporters (With market share):

USA - 33%
Russia - 25%
France - 5.6%
Germany - 4.7%
UK - 4.5%
Spain - 3.5%