Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 03:09 PM

John Mckenzie,First states that he is apolitical.
apolitical means politically neutral,with respect how can voting for the SNP and the UKIP be politicaly neutral.
personally I cheer when I hear people like WAV ,and mckenzie voting for UKIP, rather than the BNP these MINORITY groups like UKIP and BNP and English Democrats ,are Made weaker by not uniting,they are all probably infiltrated by establishment agents,just as the left AND TRADE UNIONS are.
remember Ray Buckton ASLEF General secretary,and erstwhile left winger,according to the Guardian,he was reporting back to MI5,on trade union meetings.
the last pragraph is relevant here.

   

MI5 agent 'spied on
    * The Guardian, Friday 1 November 2002 01.38 GMT
    * Article history

MI5 ran an agent to monitor the activities of Dave Nellist, the Labour MP and supporter of the far left Militant group in the 1980s.

It asked the West Midlands police special branch to find an agent to infiltrate the Labour party in Coventry and cultivate Mr Nellist, then MP for the city's south east constituency.

The police special branch also ran a spy in the inner circle of the miners' leader, Arthur Scargill. Given the close relationship between the special branch and MI5, there is no doubt the spy's information was passed to MI5.

The agent, codenamed Silver Fox, provided valuable information about the tactics of the leadership of the National Union of Mineworkers and helped to break the 1984-85 miners' strike, according to former special branch officers.

The disclosures are made in the second programme in BBC2's True Spies series, to be broadcast on Sunday. It also includes an interview with David Hart, a millionaire who was Margaret Thatcher's unofficial adviser. He says he employed former SAS soldiers to protect the families of working miners during the strike.

A former West Midlands special branch officer identified as Dennis describes how, on MI5's instructions, he cultivated Militant supporters in Coventry, including Mr Nellist.

He says the agent and the MP were "pretty close". "[The agent] helped him on a lot of things. He went around with him to a lot of meetings."

Monitoring an MP raises serious questions. Although Dennis says the special branch was monitoring Militant rather than an MP, he admits that they were reporting on Mr Nellist since he attended Militant meetings.

Asked whether he was surprised MI5 put a spy on to him, Mr Nellist replies: "On a personal basis it does surprise me. What was the state doing in investigating, if it was me, an elected MP who had the support of thousands of people in the area to go off and do a job down in London?"

The special branch agent within the miners' union is described by Tony Clement, assistant chief constable of South Yorkshire police in the 1980s, as "at the level where he would sit round the table with the NUM leadership".

John Nesbit, a senior officer of the South Yorkshire police force at the time, tells the programme that the information "beat the strike, there's no doubt about that".

Stella Rimington, the former director general of MI5 and at the time responsible for countering "subversion", has repeatedly denied MI5 had an agent inside the NUM leadership. However she makes it clear MI5 received the intelligence provided by Silver Fox.

Mr Scargill said of the security services' surveillance of him that it was "not only illegal, is not only against the whole question of human rights and civil liberties, but in my view flies in the face of democracy itself".

The programme also discloses that MI5 planted an agent to weaken the influence of Derek Robinson, the union leader at British Leyland's Longbridge plant in the 1970s.

Last week the documentary named two leading trade unionists as police special branch informers. Joe Gormley, the miners' leader who presided over two successful strikes against the government in the 1970s, and Ray Buckton, the long-term leader of Aslef, the train drivers' union, were said to be among as many as 23 "senior trade unionists" who regularly passed information - unpaid - about their tactics to a secret unit of special branch.
who knows which leaders of which parties,are not reporting back to MI5.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,Georgina Boyes
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 06:13 PM

Interesting to see they interviewed John Nesbitt.

He's the "hero" of the Rotherham Women's Support Group song about the officer who wrecked a Police Range Rover by using it to knock down a snowman pickets had built around a concrete post. The tune is "John Brown's Body" and the chorus is - "Silly bugger Mr Nesbitt". The picket line took great delight in singing it whenever he appeared.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 07:21 PM

As far as logos on CDs/Booklets are concerned, I would insist on it in the future.
Sadly any BNP muppet can go and buy my album, rip a particular track and shove it on one of their tasteless compilations (Not tasteless music, you understand!)
Which is why the work that Joan and others are doing is so important.
Dr Goebells single handedly destroyed German and Austrian Volk Music in the early 30's. Think about it. How many German Folk bands have you seen in the last 40 years? None.....The Germans that I know are ashamed of their own legacy. because it was so tainted by its Nazi connections.
Do we want this to happen here?
I don't think so.
And I must echo Anahatas point. If Steve Harris were to turn up at an English Ceilidh (Which I know he loves..Nowt wrong with that)
Only to discover that it was being funded by the BNP. Would he stay or would he go?
And Steve. Which of the three words Folk...Against...Fascism...Don't you understand? It's not rocket science is it?
And why weren't you dancing in the Anchor gardens that Friday lunchtime?

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: jeddy
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 09:44 PM

i forgot about 'ripping' but it would stop them selling whole albums, if they were to burn the logo onto the disc as well as on the cover.

do the artists invovled still get paid for it when used like this?

oooh i feel like scrapy doo.. "let me at em"!!
small but vicious! lol

take care all

jade x x x

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 05:36 AM

In fact having the image on the disk body is better, and should be sufficient. It would not stop compilations being made of course, as Ralphie says.

The artists would get whatever small %ge they get from retail sales, depending on their distribution contract; but would they want it anyway!?

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 05:39 AM

Artists should try to get a no compilation and no coupling clause in their contracts. But normally you need to have a LOT of clout before a record company will accept that.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Stower
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 01:55 PM

This refers to quite a few posts ago (I have been away for a while) but is an important point of fact:

Howard Jones 13 Aug 09 - 06:53 PM
"Folkiedave, if someone goes to a launch event of anything, whether it's a product or an idea, and is kept waiting for 20 minutes before it's explained to them ..."

Stower 13 Aug 09 - 08:14 AM
"Steve Knightly at the FAF launch start[ed] the event with his song 'Roots' because it has been appropriated by the BNP"

In other words, one important reason for having the event was explained before the first song was sung. Anyone who was actually there would know this.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 02:51 PM

"but I'm very keen that FAF should not become a 'left wing' organisation"
- GUEST,Jon Boden
Very well put, indeed, Jon.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: jeddy
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 03:00 PM

could the FaF not gather the royalties of the sales of the BNP and donate it to the FaF? assuming they want to of course, which i am sure thery would be happy to.

take care all

jade x x x

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 03:39 PM

Lest we forget.
Stoke on Trent
and there's more where he came from, just follow the links!

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: John Golightly
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 02:35 AM

There are a few fundamentals here which I think are being missed –

1)        Good & inspiring music has always been subject to hijack/misuse (call it what you will) by those with a particular political or religious agenda. This has happened throughout history.

2)        There's *** all anyone can do about this

3)        Any music worth its salt will generally transcend any spurious association with a political or religious view.

The classic example – in the mid 1500's a Finnish student put together a collection of traditional Folk & dance Tunes, some thought to be already 500 years old at that time, & labelled them as "belonging" (!)to the church. The incentive came from the highest political levels as part of a strategy to bring some peace & unity at what was a very bloody time.
Four centuries later, Mike Oldfield (amongst others) "rescued" some of these tunes & brought them back into the Folk genre where they originated. Amongst the tunes – "In Dulci Jubilo".
(http://soonyritys.net/tapio/PC.notes.html, google "Piae cantiones")

Pieces of Folk music don't "belong" to anyone – they just are. If you agree with that statement, then where's the sense in starting a tug-of-war over an aspect of our culture? It lays you wide open to exactly the same charge, of "using" that music for your own political ends. The fact that you're "against" rather than "for" a particular viewpoint, is neither here nor there.

It's not much of an answer if you feel deeply about Fascism, I know, but the only practical answer to this hijacking is to live with it, ignore it, move on, & find some other front on which to fight Fascism.

John Golightly

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 03:02 AM

Excellent John!!......but this is not about the music, it's about ego, hatred, a raison d'etre! On both sides.

I think you must have stumbled into the wrong site, reason is frowned upon here....:0)

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 03:23 AM

Message to Steve Harris.
Have just listened to the field recording of the concert. and the aims and message of FaF were clearly stated in Paul Sartins introduction to the concert....I can only assume you missed it. It was blatantly obvious to me....!!!

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 03:38 AM

John, you appear to have missed some fundamentals of copyright and defamation law, although copyright of course is not relevant to material the copyright in which has expired - and copyright was at most in its formative period as a concept in the 1500s and possibly rather less.

More significantly in current terms, if a recording of a performance of a person (or composition of a person) is used to support a cause, it implies that that performer or composer supports that cause.

If that performer or composer has previously stated that he does not support that cause, then the use of the recording implies that the performer or composer is a liar.

The Republicans in the USA have I think felt impelled to settle legal proceedings brought there by Bruce Springsteen on (I understand) similar grounds.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,Georgina Boyes
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 03:57 AM

This is also a fundamental misreading of both the history of 'In Dulci Jubilo' and medieval attitudes to music.

The real parallel, as has been pointed out already by various contributors to the thread, is the effect of the Nazi's use of folk music.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 03:58 AM

John, the reason for FAF (if you read what's on the Facebook site, or one of the leaflets) is to raise awareness of a couple of things that many people did not realise was going on. Firstly, that the BNP are trying to insinuate themselves into traditional events and encouraging members to revive old folk customs and create their own St George's Day and May Day events. What's more, folk musicians and dancers at all levels might be asked to take part in these events, and unwittingly becime part of the BNP's propaganda. This is far less likely to happen if lots of people know what's going on, and feel empowered to question who is backing/funding any events they are asked to participate in.

Now, if you feel that the best strategy for dealing with this is simply to "live with it, ignore it and move on", I guess that's your prerogative. But personally, I would want to know if I was being used/manipulated in the interests of far-right propaganda and/or fundraising. What's more, it's quite possible that, without an awareness of these strategies, some of our most beloved traditional events (which are often organised by a small handful of local people) could fall under the influence of far-right participants, who have no real interest in the tradition beyond trying to hijack it as part of a BNP propaganda campaign.

Thirdly, there are musicians who already find that their music is being used as propaganda by the BNP and other far-right groups, and to raise money for their coffers. They have tried to get the BNP to stop selling their music; the BNP has said that the more they object, the more they will do it. FAF has, once again, been created to raise awareness of what is happening, and to give the artists in question the opportunity to publicly distance themselves from the way in which their music is being subverted.

So there we go: very specific responses to a very specific set of circumstances which have emerged. I would agree that, if this movement were simply about sticking two fingers up at the BNP, it would be pretty pointless and serve only really to stroke the egos of the people involved. But in terms of what the group is for, I think it has already gone some way to achieving its aims.

The next thing is the week of events next year, in which we hope that lots and lots of people will participate - because the only way to get this message out beyond our relatively tiny world is for members to take it into their own communities, and raise the awareness beyond the folk world of this threat to traditional culture and music - because this heritage belongs to everyone, not just folkies. God knows it's hard enough to get the rest of the world to engage with their own folk heritage in any meaningful way - imagine how much harder that would be if it becomes tainted by association with the BNP because we all decided it was much easier to "live with it, ignore it, move on"...

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 04:11 AM

.... "& find some other front on which to fight Fascism." (to complete the quotation)

John

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 04:17 AM

Yes, but this is not simply some nebulous anti-fascist movement. This is a SPECIFIC response to a SPECIFIC set of circumstances. It is about awareness-raising. If you want to fight fascism on some other front, by all means do it. The two things are not mutually exclusive. But those of us who started FAF thought that the threat was real enough, and scary enough, to want to do something about it before it was too late.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,MtheGM
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 04:47 AM

This is not a new situation. My monthly "Taking The Mike" column for Folk Review of April 1976 was about an "Old English Day" being organised by Lady Birdwood, a then well-known precursor of the BNP, which was to include 'brass bands and morris dancers'. I pointed out the true nature of the organisation represented by Lady Birdwood, and warned morris sides to look out for the tendentious blandishments of an invitation to perform in this event, Vigilance was need then and it is needed now. All the negative, and indeed hostile, comments this thread has incurred are patently misplaced. FAF won't stop the BNP in its tracks all by itself; but, as Messrs Tesco never tire of reminding us [in a slogan pinched from a salvage campaign in WWii which some of us are old enough to recall], "Every Little Helps".

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 06:12 AM

Does a recording artist have NO control over what use his recordings are put to ? Or can ANYONE Do What They like as long as they pay royalties ?

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 06:43 AM

Well, Steve Knightley eventually got his song, Roots, taken off the BNP website, but I think that legal action was either threatened or taken first.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 07:35 AM

Terry, it depends on what the artist signed. That is the effect of a contract.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: BB
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 09:24 AM

Does anyone know how one gets hold of stickers for CDs, instrument cases, etc., T-shirts and leaflets? I can't find any clues on the Facebook or FaF sites. Not having been at Sidmouth for the concert...

Barbara

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 09:35 AM

The official website will begin selling merchandise in September. Otherwise, there will be t-shits, badges, leaflets and stickers about at Whitby and Towersey.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 09:39 AM

t-shits? Canb't wait to get one.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 09:48 AM

oh dear.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 10:56 AM

Ah yes, the Dowager Lady Jane Birdwood as cited by Mike above, was a truly nasty and dangerous piece of work, aptly described in her Searchlight obit as "a very English extremist". I came across her many times in courtrooms when reporting incitement to racial hatred cases when she was almost always acquitted. The establishment seemed in awe of her title and regarded her as merely eccentric and just a bit bonkers. It is to be hoped that the BNP supported arrested last Saturday on a similar charge while actually under police escort won't be similarly let off. Oddly, she lived in an Acton council flat near an aptly-named pub, The Old Oak, a notorious 1970s nazi hangout where they gathered to sing the Horst Wessel-Lied (yes, they really did, I heard them while picketing outside). It is believed that the fire which destroyed the pub was started by rival nazis. Who knows? Homebase stands there now and the fascists are infinitely more sophisticated. That is why opposition has to be very specific and focussed on single issues. FAF is a bid to wrest English music from the grasp of a few who want to misappropriate it for thir own evil ends: just one strand in the overall anti-fascist struggle which is far broader than a far-left campaign. It is for the right of all citizens of the Place Called England to play our music as loudly and proudly as we damn well like.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 02:08 PM

"It is for the right of all citizens of the Place Called England to play our music as loudly and proudly as we damn well like"
- The Borchester Echo

and on whatever instruments we choose to play the music!

Stand and Be Counted

Olivia Beak (Ms)

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 03:29 AM

Hello Guest fashionista.
Give my fondest regards to Mr Griffin.
And then kindly and sweetly go away.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 03:38 AM

Doh! Haven't you heard? Folkies like last year, the year before rather better, and so on...

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 03:52 AM

In 1929 Hitlers Nazi Party is the smallest in the Reichstag. Four years later he had taken power and the first thing he did was to lock up or terrorise his parliamentary opponents and then begin the process of dismantling the organisations of German society and its working class in particular.

It was a catastrophe that was directly to lead to the slaughter of many millions. Something that Griffin was to mock and deny.

We certainly can't allow a bunch of Hitler loving thugs to grow unopposed in this country.We have the lesson of history to warn and guide us!Griffin and Brons are two openly racist and fascist MEPs.Part of Griffin's plan is to use the symbolism of English culture [including folk song,dance and customs ] to develop support for his thuggish cadre.

Hence the formation of Folk Against Fascism.On his side he has got the old nazi marching songs while we have the songs of Ewan McColl,Hamish Henderson, Woody Guthrie, Paul Robeson, and so many more. I was told that one of the songs that the anti fascists sang at Codnor on saturday was an adapation of Yellow Submarine..now there is a song being assimilated into the folk tradition!
ifor

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,Realist
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 06:12 AM

Message deleted. If you post at Mudcat, you may post under one name, and one name only.
-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 06:26 AM

White supremacist convicted of plotting bomb terror plot

In one notebook Lewington had written what was described in court as "a chilling mission statement" from what is termed "the command council Waffen SS UK".

It stated: "We have 30 members... we are highly trained ex-military personnel and will use incendiary and explosive devices throughout the UK at random until non-British people as defined by blood are removed from our country. This is no joke."

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 06:29 AM

David Copeland the killer

"He joined the extremist BNP and became an activist. In 1997 he was photographed standing next to the party's founder John Tyndall."

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Emma B
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 06:32 AM

'Realist' Just be correct and don't let facts get in the way of your prejeudices!

A British National Party member and former (3 times failed) candidate stockpiled weapons and explosive chemicals as he prepared for a civil war in Britain, a court heard yesterday.
Robert Cottage, 49, had amassed an arsenal of dangerous weapons as he prepared for armed conflict in the UK,

He met retired dentist David Jackson, 62, at a BNP meeting and the pair gathered a vast array of different chemicals that could be used to make bombs.

A police raid uncovered a vast array of weapons and chemicals all of which could have been used to kill and seriously maim.
Officers found four air pistols with ammunition, a number of crossbows, a bow and arrow, up to 19 different explosive chemicals and two nuclear protection suits.
They also recovered a 300-page computer document called the Anarchy Cookbook which detailed how to make different types of bombs

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 06:33 AM

Searchlight exposes racial terrorism link in the BNP

"Fifteen years ago South Africa was in the process of dismantling apartheid.

The white supremacists of the terrorist Afrikaner Weerstand Beweging (AWB) were trying to prevent the move towards majority rule and to restore the racist system.

Three men had planted a home-made bomb at the Calvary Church School in protest against the school's decision to become racially mixed.

When the bomb failed to go off, one of them lost his nerve, gave himself up to the police and turned in his two associates, one of which was Nieuwhof.

At the end of the resulting court case he received what Searchlight claims was a derisory 12-month suspended prison sentence.

Leaving South Africa Nieuwhof set off for Britain, where he came into contact with Arthur Kemp, another South African extremist exile, who had been arrested for the murder of Chris Hani, a close colleague of Nelson Mandela, in April 1993 but released without charge.

Kemp had been named by Clive Derby-Lewis, a far-right South African MP who is now serving life imprisonment for setting up Hani's murder, as the author of a hit list of prominent anti-apartheid leaders.

Kemp too has become influential in the BNP. His articles appear on the BNP website and his 586-page tome March of the Titans comes highly recommended on the BNP's booklist."

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 06:35 AM

Hope Not Hate exposes BNP terrorists

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Emma B
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 06:41 AM

sigh, once again an anoymous troll disrupts a thread - no doubt in another attempt to get an important topic relegated to BS.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 02:19 PM

They're five feet two and they are six feet four
He's all of 31 and he's only 17
They've been English for a thousand years

They're Catholic, Hindu, Muslim, atheist, Jain,
Buddhist, Baptists and Jews
They have always been here
and they know they always will
They are you, my friends and me

They've come from Canada,
They've come from France,
and even from the USA,
They've come from Russia
They've come from Japan,
Together we can put an
end to BNP ways

(with apologies to Buffy Saint Marie)

Olivia Beak (Ms)

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Stower
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 12:54 PM

I have just discovered, via this page, that the BNP are not only planning to worm their way into the folk world but also into the trade union movement.

We should all beware.

In the light of recent developments, it will be interesting to see if they try to make 'Solidarity' (ironic name, given what their Polish namesake stood for) a whites-only union, and whether that will stand up legally.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 05:34 PM

I am disturbed and disappointed that I recently suggested to the organiser of an event that he should display the "Folk against Fascism" banner, only to have him refuse. It is a shame that friends of mine have been booked to play and I should probably have liked to go to see them.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: jeddy
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 09:15 PM

i intend to try too richard, when the leaflets and posters come out. i really hope i have more luck. it was very iresponsible for your friend to refuse. please try again, he might have just been in a bad mood, or in the middle of something?

take care all

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Stower
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 07:54 AM

Richard, did you ask why he refused? I'm wondering if there could be a legitimate reason that doesn't suggest he's *for* fascism (though I can't think of one now. Maybe, from a business point of view, he doesn't want to put off paying punters that he thinks may support the BNP? - which is still indefensible, in my view.) Would his answer make a difference?

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: dj bass
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 08:12 AM

In addition to their misappropriation of folk music, the BNP membership rules are riddled with the word "folk". See this BBC article on legal action against the BNP. What the hell are "the Anglo-Saxon folk community" for example?

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 08:46 AM

I do not want to do more than I have done to identify my friend in question. Yes I got a reason. No I did not think a lot of it.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 09:07 AM

BNP usage of the word folk is just one disturbing straw in the wind, regarding their Nazi afilliations. At the core of Hitler's Germany was the idea that purification of the German nation did not just entail purging the country of all those elements which were considered non-Aryan. It also entailed a return to its 'healthy' peasant roots. A return to the roots meant a return to the volksgemeinschaft or folk community.

As with so many other pieces of Nazi terminology, British fascists merely anglicised the term when incorporating it into their own belief system.

If anyone tells you the BNP are not Nazis, they are either liars or misinformed.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 11:13 AM

"It has nothing to do with discrimination; it's all to do with internal politicking"
- Lee Barnes, BNP, on theEquality and Human Rights commission's legal action

Really? And just how stupid does Lee Barnes think we are?

Is me stating that my skin colour is not white and my ethic group is not Anglo-Saxon politicing or simply stating the facts?

The BNP are racist, anti-semetic, homophobic (wonder how many closeted cases there are in the BNP?) and a whole lot more. That's not politicing, thems the facts Jack! It's that simple.

Stand and Be Counted!

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 11:30 AM

Hey Ms Robertson..
Until your last post I hadn't even considered what your skin colour might be!!
You have just come across as a decent person..!
And you continue to do so...
Isn't that the point? It's not how someone looks it's what they say.
Pleasure to know you.
Ralph (Oh, I'm white, just to clear the air !!!!!)

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 11:44 AM

and a pleasure to meet you too Ralph!! :-)

and just too REALLY annoy the BNP *LOL*, I'm one quarter Welsh, one quarter Scots and half Mohawk, though I get skin and hair colouring from my late mother, Dad's from England.

You're right, Ralph, skin colouring, ethic background etc...isn't the point, it's basically are we all decent people, and for the most part, here on Mudcat, we are just that.

Stand and Be Counted!

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms0

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 11:50 AM

Ok Charlie.....(can I call you Charlie?)
Standing Up.....
Ready to be counted. Here we go....

ONE.

Oh I've just fallen over!
(didn't hurt much!)
Regards Ralphie