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Subject: Joe Heaney From: Liam's Brother Date: 20 Oct 98 - 08:00 PM Alice in Montana asked if I would start a thread about Joe Heaney, the late sean nos (old style) singer from Carna, Co. Galway. Joe lived in a number of places in his life - London and Seattle, for example. He also lived in Brooklyn for many years. I knew Joe but I could not say that he was a close friend nor was I one of his students. We did a number of music jobs together at one time or another and I'm pleased to say that it was he and our mutual friend Maddy DeLeon who came up with the name for my book, "The Bonnie Bunch of Roses." Joe was also a guest at the folk club I ran at The Eagle Tavern in New York City on many occasions and he would sometimes come for the night when Louis Killen or Peter Bellamy (for example) were singing and he would always step up for a song or two. The first time I saw Joe was in the early 70's at a coffeehouse Debbie McClatchy was running on the Upper West Side, Focus Two. There were more attendees than chairs and a number of the audience had to sit on the floor more or less at Joe's feet. Joe sang roughly 50% of the time in English and 50% in Gaelic. He came from a very traditional community so telling stories was not a trouble for Joe. He would just about always expand on his songs before he sang them. On this particular night, he was about to sing a song in Gaelic and gave a full introduction explaining that a wedding was to take place in the Arran Islands and that the groom's party was in a skin boat rowing out from the mainland. They had brought with them animals for the wedding feast. One of these animals put its foot through the side of the boat causing it to take on water. The inevitable happened and that was that the groom was drowned when a number of women threw their arms around him hoping that he would save them. One man at Joe's feet found this amusing. Most often, people speak about Joe's repertoire or his highly ornamented singing style. I was almost most impressed with his committment to his songs and that feeling stems from this night. You see, the man had laughed about the death of a real person and someone close to Joe... a person in one of his treasured ballads. I can only tell you that I was entirely sure that there would be serious bodily damage done that night. I have never seen anything like it before or since. Joe was quite a guy.
All the best, Dan Milner Joe Heaney website (click) |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: Alice Date: 20 Oct 98 - 08:59 PM Thanks, Dan. I have the tape by Joe called "Say a Song". There is a link on my music page to the website at Northwest Folklife to a page about Joe Heaney and recordings. I love this quote: "I respect an audience," he told me, "I always have done. . .What they say at home: abair amhrán, inis scéal, say a song, tell a story. They don't tell you to sing a song. Say a song. . .that means you're telling a story--in a nice way. And without the story, the song is lost; and without putting the story over in the song, the song is lost on an audience. . . That's the whole thing, to 'put the song over,' as they say. It's no good singing a song unless you put it over."
http://www.nwfolklife.org/folklife/P_REC/JH_Intro.html alice in montana |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: Art Thieme Date: 20 Oct 98 - 09:24 PM Joe and I had completely different types of songs to show people. But we both loved the story songs---the long ones. I only met him once. We were at Lisa Null's festival at Wesleyan U. in Connecticut--along with Peter Ballamy & Lou Killen. What a singers festival that was. But I was there to represent the Chicago high-rise Midwestern tradition of folk music. I loved Joe's songs even though I had no idea what his gaelic words were sayin'. Joe took to my songs and I've never been more honored---but I sure was surprised to see that. Back in the midwest, I took his tune from "Morrissey And The Russian Sailor" and used it for a Wisconsin lumberjack song that had, I thought, a boring tune--"The Shanty Boy On The Big Eau Clair". (Hell, I've never told anyone the truth o' that before.Not proud--simply is a fact.) Lucy Simpson kept us both informed of the others doings through his last years. And when Joe died it was Lucy and many others who coordinated collecting money to put a stone/marker on Joe's grave in Ireland which, up to that point, was bare. Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: Liam's Brother Date: 21 Oct 98 - 08:58 AM Joe often talked about the "pulse" of a song. It was a comment on what others call "free rhythm," meaning that even his open, unaccompanied singing where certain notes are held (for example) to better convey the meaning of the song was governed by that "pulse" which one could sing with or around but could never ignore. |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: Martin Ryan Date: 21 Oct 98 - 10:21 AM With that style of singing, I often find myself feeling an almost literal pulse - a slow double beat running through the song,no matter what the singer appears to be doing rhythmically. The song-time weaves around that pulse and never loses it.
Regards |
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Subject: Joe Heaney on WFDU-FM From: GUEST,Ron Olesko Date: 24 Jan 01 - 11:36 PM This coming Sunday 1/28 at 9 am Eastern Time I will be hosting a program on the music of Joe Heaney on WFDU-FM's THE SUNDAY SESSION. If you are in the New York City area you can hear it live over 89.1 or listen in via the internet at www.wfdu.fm . THE SUNDAY SESSION airs every Sunday morning from 9 to 10am Eastern Time. Joe Heaney, who passed away in 1984, is recognized as one of Ireland's greatest sean-nós singers. We will feature recordings of Joe, in particular from the recently released "The Road From Connemara" (Cló lar-Chonnacta). My guests will include Peggy Seeger, who along with Ewan MacColl recorded Joe in 1964 and were recently released on CD as "The Road From Connemara" (Cló lar-Chonnacta). We will also hear from Shanachie recording artist Cathie Ryan, who learned numerous songs as well as sean-nós from Joe. Other guests include Irish Voice columnist Don Meade; Josh Dunson, who managed Joe in addition to writing a two-part article about him for Sing Out! in the early 70's; Prof. Sean Williams, currently a professor of Ethnomusicology at Evergreen State College and a former student of Joe's; as well as Jill Linzee, Director of Public Programs for Northwest Folklife. The program is part documentary, part discussion, part music - and all about an important figure in the history of Irish music. I hope you can join us for this special hour of music. We will also have a special webpage on Joe Heaney - go to www.wfdu.fm and click on "Sunday Session" for details. This page should be up by Sunday morning. Ron Olesko Producer/Host THE SUNDAY SESSION WFDU-FM |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: Margaret V Date: 25 Jan 01 - 12:35 AM Ron, that sounds like a great line-up. The Joe Heaney CD is fantastic and it will be a treat to hear from Peggy Seeger. Thanks for letting us know. Margaret (in Putnam County, where often enough I can't get FDU because of the hills, but I'll manage somehow!) |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: GUEST Date: 25 Jan 01 - 12:37 AM Joe Heaney. Knew him in the 70's when he would come to the Eistedfodd in North Dartmouth, MA. He was wonderful. This sounds like a program not to be missed. Thanks Ron for the heads up. |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: Sorcha Date: 25 Jan 01 - 12:52 AM This sounds marvelous, but it is at 7 AM my time......not a chance. and never on Sunday. Do you archive so I can listen later? |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: Alice Date: 25 Jan 01 - 08:59 AM Wonderful. Can you let us know if there will be an archive of the program? |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: GUEST,Ron Olesko Date: 25 Jan 01 - 09:38 AM I spoke with Max about archiving some additional "Traditions" (my other show) programs right here on Mudcat. I can also archive this Joe Heaney special. In fact, I may even make an "internet-only" version - there was so many wonderful stories and comments that I could not fit them all in to a 1 hour program. Just a reminder - THE SUNDAY SESSION is now on at 9am Eastern Time. The old time slot was 7am and until yesterday our website was listing the show at the wrong time. (And I update our "What's On" page!! Shame on me!!) Anyone can listen online at www.wfdu.fm. I am also in the process of creating a companion webpage for the Joe Heaney special that will give listeners a bit more information as well as links on where to find the CD's, information about the guests, etc. That particular page should be up and running by Sunday, just click on "The Sunday Session" button to find it. Ron Olesko |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: mej Date: 25 Jan 01 - 10:53 AM People interested in Joe Heaney might like to know that there ia an archive of his recordings and material about him in the Ethnomusicology Dept. of the University of Washington in Seattle. It was put together in the mid-80's by a woman whose name, unfortunately, I can't remember. She was a graduate student there and knew Joe. I contributed tapes of concerts of his that I did sound for, and an early record album. Mary |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: mej Date: 25 Jan 01 - 10:54 AM People interested in Joe Heaney might like to know that there ia an archive of his recordings and material about him in the Ethnomusicology Dept. of the University of Washington in Seattle. It was put together in the mid-80's by a woman whose name, unfortunately, I can't remember. She was a graduate student there and knew Joe. I contributed tapes of concerts of his that I did sound for, and an early record album. Mary in Boston (another Mary on the Mudcat!) |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: KathWestra Date: 26 Jan 01 - 10:45 AM Thanks for showcasing Joe and his music, Ron. He was a truly wonderful singer, and a great character too. He visited my then-husband (Joe Hickerson) and I a number of times in Washington, taught me to make tea properly, and regaled us with endless stories that always ended, "...and that's a true story, it is" -- spoken with a twinkle that told you he'd been pulling your leg the whole time. We took him once to an Irish pub here in D.C., where he found the music appalling. But, invited to get up on stage and sing, he did: a long unaccompanied song in Gaelic. You could have heard a pin drop, and there was a moment of profound, appreciative silence when he finished, before the place erupted in applause. I'll look forward to hearing your show online. Kathy |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: Liam's Brother Date: 26 Jan 01 - 02:22 PM I will be away this Sunday, Ron, so I look forward to the archived edition. Joe Heaney was living in New York City while I was running the traditional music club at Malachy's McCourt's Bells of Hell and The Eagle Tavern and he was a frequent guest and patron at the club. He just about always stopped by when Peter Bellamy or Lou Killen were singing. On one evening when I was sharing the night with James Kelly, Paddy O'Brien and Daithi Sproule, both Joe Heaney and the great accordion player Joe Burke dropped in. That was quite a night! In the late 1970s, we started what was a new format on certain nights when our featured guest and I participated in a sing-around. Perhaps one of the first singing circles at a folk club. Joe did a few of these in addition to Roy Harris, Frank Harte, Ray Fisher and other singers. Those were great days in New York. Joe and I appeared at a number of local concerts and small festivals around the area. It was very interesting to see him sing to an audience that was, for example, primarily Latino. He could cut it. In addition to his great ornamentation, Joe had terrific commitment to his songs. He really cared for the people he sang about.
All the best,
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: GUEST,Ron Olesko Date: 26 Jan 01 - 02:58 PM Thanks Dan! I wish I had time to get all these great stories into the program. As it was, I ended up with more than 2 hours of interviews alone - all this for a show that is 59minutes and 40 seconds in length! The stories and comments about Joe are wonderful!! We need more people like him to preserve and to carry this music on. And by the way Dan - I would like to publicly extend an invitation for you to come on the show again. We have a brand new performance studio at WFDU which is perfect for a small group of musicans and a small audience (I'm talking numbers, not height!!) How about coming on with a few others and recreating a song circle? You are always welcome!!! Ron Olesko |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: Liam's Brother Date: 26 Jan 01 - 03:47 PM An on-air singing circle sounds like a great idea. Let's do it and dedicate it to Joe. But do we have to be there at 9AM on a Sunday? By the way, I notice that you're signed in as a guest. Why don't you join Mudcat?
All the best,
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: GUEST,Ron Olesko Date: 26 Jan 01 - 04:19 PM Dan - We can pre-tape at a more reasonable time! I would never ask anyone to sing live at 9am on a Sunday morning! I am a member of Mudcat, but I am logged on to a different account at the moment. Long story, but I am about to switch Internet providers. I will be in touch Dan!! Ron |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: GUEST,Ron Olesko Date: 26 Jan 01 - 04:20 PM Dan - We can pre-tape at a more reasonable time! I would never ask anyone to sing live at 9am on a Sunday morning! I am a member of Mudcat, but I am logged on to a different account at the moment. Long story, but I am about to switch Internet providers. I will be in touch Dan!! Ron |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: GUEST,Ron Olesko Date: 26 Jan 01 - 04:20 PM Dan - We can pre-tape at a more reasonable time! I would never ask anyone to sing live at 9am on a Sunday morning! I am a member of Mudcat, but I am logged on to a different account at the moment. Long story, but I am about to switch Internet providers. I will be in touch Dan!! Ron |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: beachcomber Date: 27 Jan 01 - 07:11 AM I was in "O'Donoghue's" Pub in Dublin one night back about the summer of 1968 when Joe was BITTEN by the resident fiddle player, or so he claimed , (bitterly?). I'd met him previously (If my chronology is correct) at a wedding and he remembered me and we had a long discourse in which he critiscised severely the "Dubliners and more of them " who were, he insisted, copying and cashing in on the then success of the Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem He was of the opinion that the kind of "Anglo-Irish" music then being performed all over the city was much inferior to the true Gaelic or Sean-nos that he and others preferred. |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: Alice Date: 27 Jan 01 - 04:18 PM Ron and all, Joe Heaney and others who sang (and sing) sean nós are such an inspiration to me, I really appreciate the memories posted here and the program you've made available. I keep on singing solo and unaccompanied, most of the time, even though I get "flack" for not having instuments backing me up. I just prefer it, and can't turn my back on it, even though I know it isn't "popular" and that I am swimming against the tide. |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: Alice Date: 27 Jan 01 - 04:32 PM http://alpha.fdu.edu/wfdu/joe_heaney.htm A link: Sunday Session, Joe Heaney |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: GUEST,Ron Olesko Date: 27 Jan 01 - 09:13 PM Alice - thank you for the nice compliment and adding the link. I never could figure out how to add a link here! After posting a few notes about the Joe Heaney show I have received so many nice comments on here, through e-mail, and other newsgroups. In my 25+ years with WFDU I never have enjoyed putting a special together as much as this one. The comments from my guests and the ones I have received have been so positive about the music Joe believed so strongly in. Whether you are a fan of sean nos or not, I think there are some themes that came across that are fitting for anyone who is interested in traditional music. One of the themes we discuss is the fact that sean nos wasn't popular at the time, and still only has limited appeal. If I learned anything from producing this special it is the message that Joe got tried to teach - one has to be true to their own voice and to honor the song. You don't need a bunch of instruments to do that. I think that is the problem I have with many of the singer-songwhiners of today. So much time is spent on production in the studio that the song becomes secondary. Joe was booed off the stage by audiences that didn't understand what he was singing. Joe never blinked, he remained true to the song. Ron
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: Alice Date: 27 Jan 01 - 09:34 PM Coincidentally, after posting to this thread about singing solo and unaccompanied, I opened the mail that came today - a package from Oasis CD duplicators. They enclosed an Oasis compilation sampler of 4 CD's. The first track on the first CD is a solo voice, Kate Long, from West Va., singing "McNamara's Tear". The third track was another solo voice from West Va., Helena Triplett. To have two unaccompanied songs start out this set of samples tells me that there has to be at least some in the American market who can still appreciate this kind of singing; and if only audiences were more exposed to sean nós, more would appreciate it, too. The key, I think, is for audiences to hear the voices that can "say the song", as Joe Heaney stated, with the emotion and understanding that puts the music across, AND with the quality and mastery of singing itself that any solo instrument requires. (This reminds me of the Love Is Teasin' thread and Jean Ritchie.) |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 27 Jan 01 - 10:07 PM A transcription of Joe Heaney's 1964 interviews with Ewan MacColl and Peggy Seeger may be seen at Musical Traditions: "I never had a steady job" Joe Heaney: A Life in Song Malcolm |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: GUEST,Ron Olesko Date: 27 Jan 01 - 10:19 PM Alice - I did an interview with Kate Long at the North East Regional Folk Alliance Conference. Kate sang McNamara's Tears at one of the showcases. My co-host Bill Hahn and I both thought it was probably the most powerful song we heard in years. I am glad you brought it up - that is a perfect example of the power of traditional singing in the spirit of sean nos. Ron |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: Tiger Date: 28 Jan 01 - 10:04 AM Hi, Ron...... Fortunately, I checked the threads just in time to tune in to your show. A terrific job! There's a wonderful picture of Joe with Liam Clancy in the Clancy's songbook - hadn't known they were instrumental in Joe's immmigration. I also loved the story of the Chinese restaurateur who helped Joe slip through - it must have been tough then. |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: GUEST,Ron Olesko Date: 28 Jan 01 - 07:30 PM Thank you for the kind words! I am glad you liked it. I will try to get a copy for Mudcat, perhaps an extended version. Ron Olesko |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: Margaret V Date: 11 Feb 01 - 12:32 PM Ron, I wasn't able to tune in to the program. Is it possible to hear it via the link that Alice provided? I went there and read the biographical information, but didn't know whether I was also able to access the archived show from there. Help? Thanks. Margaret |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: kytrad (Jean Ritchie) Date: 11 Feb 01 - 07:02 PM ...Once, at a singing party in New York, we arrived late, and everybody was singing, playing banjos, fiddles, guitars. Joe Heany spotted us, and leapt up, shouting out(and it was one of the best compliments I ever had), "Hey! Jean's here- now we can get down to the GOOD music!" And he proceeded to shush the instruments and lead off the unaccompanied part of the evening with a slow, impassioned Gaelic ballad. After that, we all took turns, and it was a good halfhour before we took up instruments again. Every party needs that kind of a breather... Jean |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: Alice Date: 11 Feb 01 - 08:38 PM Margaret, I don't see a link to an archive - I missed hearing the program, too. I do have a link to the CD's of Road From Connemara, on sale click here. |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: Margaret V Date: 12 Feb 01 - 01:11 PM refresh? |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: GUEST,Ron Olesko Date: 13 Feb 01 - 01:52 PM Margaret - Sorry for my delay in responding. The show is not archived at the WFDU site, however I do hope to have it available here at Mudcat within the next few weeks. I am working on a batch of tapes to send Max and hopefully people will be able to hear it here in the near future. There are so many wonderful stories and memories of Joe still being posted here and through private e-mails!! I wish I had time to record everyone and expand the show. Perhaps sometime down the road. |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: Margaret V Date: 13 Feb 01 - 10:33 PM Thanks Ron, I'll look for any updates regarding its availability here at Mudcat. Margaret |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: GUEST,oh-no Date: 14 Feb 01 - 01:01 AM Hi all, first apologies to Max, Bert, and the Elves, I am not rejoining since I have serious security issues here and would not want them to follow me to Mudcat so fer now yall gonna have to guess. Joe Heaney like Cooley, and several other great Musicians from the wee Isle have picked up a big following, this quality of good music is not exclusive to that location but that is another thread. There were and are several other sources in the region for 'full value' noted music, eg Matt Cranitch early recordings, Matt as you probably know is a Fiddler. I am astonished to hear here in the USA Celtic bands playing some of these great old Tunes at full throttle and not a note of it half right. Unrelated, the other day I found a great source of American Traditional on the Net. George Gibson has some great songs and is a fine contemporary singer! What could I say, if you like Joe Heaney you'd love this as well. |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: Alice Date: 11 Oct 02 - 02:09 PM refresh for Jim McLean. |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: Alice Date: 11 Oct 02 - 02:19 PM Joe Heaney moved to Seattle in the early '80's where he taught and performed. Here are the remembrances of Sean Williams, a graduate student who studied under Joe in the ethnomusicology program of the University of Washington. Joe Heaney in the Pacific Northwest |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: GUEST Date: 11 Oct 02 - 02:46 PM otherwise known as Seosamh O hEanai |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: GUEST Date: 11 Oct 02 - 02:53 PM great photo(s) of Joe in the Clancy Bros. Songbook, in the crowd chasing the bride & groom at Bobby's wedding |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney From: GUEST Date: 11 Oct 02 - 05:45 PM Thanks Alice, I said I shared a flat with Joe in London in the early sixties. I last met him in Dublin, probably 67 or so, but I hadn't heard any thing since. Louis Killin was also an old friend. My God, how the time has flown! Jim McLean |
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Subject: Folklore: Joe Heaney website From: Goose Gander Date: 13 Jan 11 - 12:29 AM The Joe Heaney website is now up for our enjoyment, thanks to Musical Traditions for the link. |
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Subject: RE: Joe Heaney website From: plastic cod'ead Date: 13 Jan 11 - 06:55 AM What an absolute treat! thanks very much |
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