BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 12:06 PM

We had a thread about the film The Wind That Shakes The Barley.
Some contributors insisted I respond to issues beyond that of the film.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 12:39 PM

Collusion is defined as the failure to keep records, the absence of accountability, withholding of intelligence and evidence and the involvement of intelligence agents in the murders of innocent Catholics .

And we have to listen to some creep defend them. It's nothing short of atrocious.

I just don't know where to begin. This statement is so wrong in so many ways it is realy beyond belief. Lets try this first -

Online dictionary definition of collusion. - A secret agreement between two or more parties for a fraudulent, illegal, or deceitful purpose.

Online thesaurus synonyms for collusion. abetment, agreement, collaboration, collusion, complot, concurrence, confederacy, connivance, engineering, guilt, guiltiness, implication, intrigue, involvement, machination, manipulation, partnership

What planet gave you your definition, Guest?

As to the next bit...

Well, who makes you listen to this 'creep', Guest? Just why do you 'have to listen'? And while we are at it let us look at the definition of 'creep'. To go stealthily or furtively; "..stead of sneaking around spying on the neighbor's house" Hmmm. Furtive? Stealthy? Does that sound like someone who hides his name from us by any chance? Doesn't it sound rather more like someone who is too much of a coward to put his name to posts than like someone who gives his name as Keith A. and lets everyone know he is from Hertford?

Why don't you do us all a favour, Guest. Take your stupid games back with you down whatever hole you crept from and leave normal human beings alone.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 05:46 PM

I insist that Guest responds.

i am all agog to know what someone I don't know thinks about us.....

the searing intensity of his valuable insights are possibly the zeitgeist of an entire generation.

the nation of mudcat waits with with bated breath.....

his last gig was as The Man from Del Monte, and he was very sound on pineapple chunks.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 07:44 AM

Keith A of Hertford I agree with y

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST,another guest
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 07:59 AM

Who is y?

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 08:01 AM

Why is the only sensible contributer to this Site, good old y.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 03:47 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 03:57 AM

Subject: RE: BS: IRA Apologizes
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jul 02 - 04:37 AM

It is not helpful to look backwards at this time. I just heard a US radio presenter unfairly play back to the NI Minister Of Education (Martin McGuinness) a reply he made when he was a high ranking provo. It must have been hurtful for MM to be reminded that he then believed that when ordinary innocent people were caught in the blast of provo car bombs it was their own fault for not getting out of the way fast enough.
If such a heartless and ruthless terrorist can be transformed into a caring politician, there must be hope for Ireland and the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 12:03 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jul 06 - 03:36 PM

Why are Guests allowed to abuse the hospitality of Mudcat like this?
Do we need their "contributions" on matters of BS?

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST,Colin Pontzpass
Date: 21 Jul 06 - 02:07 PM

There has been a lot of deliberate misinformation about the nature and intent of Love Ulster,a group set up to remember people killed during the British occupation of the North of Ireland. The group which announced yesterday that it intends to try again to march through Dublin.

Last year we saw appalling acts of violence in the capital as the proposed march was called off following a riot in O'Connell Street. We're told by some that the group only wants to remind the people of the Irish Republic of the dreadful suffering inflicted on families of Loyalist extremists by the IRA.

Jim Dixon a disgraced ex R.U.C. man is one of the groups very unsavoury people in a senior position. It was bad enough that Willie Frazer,their leader and a well known South Armagh loyalist terror leader refused to guarantee that a picture of loyalist mass murderer Robert McConnell – known to be responsible for the Dublin/Monagahan bombs – would not be carried at the march.

It was bad enough to read of some of the utterings of Mr Frazer in the past, including his regard for Billy Wright and his belief that no loyalist paramilitary should ever have seen the inside of a prison.


But the manic outpourings of disgraced ex R.U.C. man Mr Dixon underscore the reality that the group contains some people with reactionary and extreme loyalist views. Today, Dublin is a cosmopolitan and multi-racial society which is home to many thousands of people from ethnic backgrounds who supply the extra labour needed to power the country's economic growth. Of the entry of black people into Ireland, Mr Dixon said yesterday: "It's wrong that blacks are coming to Northern Ireland. I go along with what Enoch Powell said. I couldn't care less if people call me a racist. I couldn't care less what they think." Of the disgusting apartheid regime in South Africa, Mr Dixon said: "Under apartheid the black man was better paid, they had better jobs, better everything. He was treated better than anywhere else in the world."

If Love Ulster is serious about this second march it should require Mr Dixon to apologise for his outrageous remarks. And remove two convicted sex offenders from their committee. This group known as F.A.I.R. has recently been refused British government financial support. We wonder why ?

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST,William Frazer
Date: 22 Jul 06 - 11:22 AM

Having been told about this site I cannot start to imagine how so many republicans mass together on one site under a hidden site name that is nothing more than a mouthpiece for republican murders. I have worked all my adult life to bring peace and justice to the decent people of Ulster. Clearly you have on idea of what the republicans did in Ulster. If you want to read the truth about events over the past 30 years visit our site at www.victims.org.uk and read our stories for a change. We are known as F.A.I.R. Please view and sign our guestbook on your visit.
Thank you
William Frazer

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Joe Richman
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 12:45 AM

I'm not sure how I got sucked into reading these NI threads,but it happened.   And I went to Mr Frazer's website which seemed to contain a fairly well-documented litany of IRA sectarian murders in his home district of South Armagh. But then I came across a story titled "Ten Reasons Why Martin is a Tout!"

This article claims that Martin McGuinness, A big shot in the IRA and the current Sinn Fein leadership is really a British agent. The proof is the ineffectiveness of the Derry IRA under his leadership in pulling off sectarian murders. In short, they just didn't shoot very many innocent Prods. (Unlike the other county IRA commisioners who filled their quotas with gusto.)

Well, if it's true then Mr Frazer might well be the Scooter Libby of NI. Outing an agent he doesn't like. [Mr Libby, my apologies if and when you're acquitted] But there are other reasons why Mr McGuinness might have underperformed and I'm only too happy to give my list:

1) He's incompetent. Good schmoozer, bad organizer.

2) He's the last member of "United Irishmen" and actually believes that a political union of Irish Protestants and Catholics is a good and inevitable thing. Fighting the British Army is one thing, but why blow up future constituents?

3) He's really a double-triple-quadruple agent, and was much too busy double-triple-quadruple crossing people to organize bombings/shootings etc.

4) He's actually an agent of the Irish government in Dublin. This would explain the bit about how easily he got over to visit his Granny in Donegal.

5) He's really Martin Guinness, and works for the family brewery on the sly. His job back then was to make sure the beer kept flowing in Derry. "To Hell with shootings and bombings, just make it to the pub on time, boys!"

Any other suggesions from you Mudcatters, Republican Mordering Scoom, and Paisleyite "King James Only" Bible Thumpers on what really makes Martin McG. tick?

Joe

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 08:03 AM

To William Frazer,

I have been reading your Website FAIR, but it is so one-sided. My post was not hostile in your guessbook. So it did not need to be deleted, all I asked is why is your Website so anti IRA and not anti Unionist or anti Loyalist as well? I understand from reading about you that you are a victim from the conflicts too, but there are innocent victims on both sides of the fence here and I understand your bitterness to the IRA, but all this hatred does not bring peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 08:12 AM

Alison, we have our very own William Frazer on this site as well. Blind or wearing blinkers to the plight of the Irish during the "troubles".

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 08:24 AM

Really Guest?
I have been a member for years.
I can think of no members who post Unionist opinions, never mind loyalist propaganda.
There are many who post Nationalist viewpoints, and a few Republicans.

There are a few like me who argue against all paramilitarism, but lack of Loyalist opponents mean we mostly argue with all the Republicans.
And how do they counter the anti violence argument?
They say we are anti Irish.
Me especially, even though I have NEVER made an anti Irish statement.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 08:56 AM

Try Conrad Jay Bladey, Keith.

You come into another category. Your main view seems to be that our government and armed forces are innocent parties whose actions can somehow or other be justified, defended or trivialised

I too can not hold with murders and actions such as pub bombings but I believe we are far from lacking in the guilt department.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 09:04 AM

Lost on him Guest.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 09:04 AM

Conrad Jay Bladey

Can you help me to find any Unionist or Loyalist opinions this member has posted please?

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 09:05 AM

The Internet is littered with them, Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 09:13 AM

But not this forum then?

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 09:17 AM

He's made his views known here.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 09:20 AM

Where?
When?

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Joe Richman
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 11:00 AM

I understand the difference between Nationalist (one who favors union of NI with the southern Republic) and Republican (one who supports the Irish REPUBLICAN Army's violent campaign of reunification). But I'm a bit fuzzy on Unionist/Loyalist. They're not synonymous? In Canada, Loyalists are those who favored British rule in North America, and left the United States when it ended over a big hunk of it. Paisley is Loyalist or Unionist? The Orange Order? The paramilitary groups? The bulk of the Protestant majority who have never supported reunification with the south or even a political link? The flute bands?

By the way, the last mentioned are interesting to me, as they are an assault on the enemy with music. Kind of like the US Army blasting Noriega with Rock music, or Scottish bagpipers marching to the fray. Since MUDCAT is a music site, I'm trying to turn this BS thread into a music one! Dastardly,I am. Anyone have other good examples of music as a weapon?

Joe

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 12:30 PM

Yes Joe. God Save the Queen played in Ulster.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 02:13 PM

Hay, I did not write my comment on here to start any fighting! I think all sides have played a part that has lead to the conflicts in Ireland. I am British, but I am not on any side of the fence here. I am just trying to learn about Ireland, so I wish not to offend anyone. I just felt it was unfair that the people on the Website FAIR deleted my post when I was just asking questions. So William Frazer you cannot deleted anyone's posts on here! Whether a person is a Catholic or a Protestant or a Republican or a Loyalist, both sides should have a say. There is nothing fair about the Website FAIR, as it is so one-sided and it encourages sectarain activity amongst Irish people, which does not help all the victims on both sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 02:15 PM

Dear Guest:

Oh, and I thought that was exercise music for the Irish nationalists! (e.g. "The Queen's Own Evaders".)

I was thinking more of music played at events that themselves are confrontational, like potentially violent demonstrations, battles, mob scenes, police actions. etc. Tactical weapons rather than strategic.

Joe

PS As I am an American, I grew up using the tune of GSTQ for singing "My Country 'Tis of Thee".   So the tune itself doesn't have the associations it might for you, Mr or Ms Guest.

PPS Are you related to Edgar A. Guest? As in:

I'd rather flunk my Wasserman test
than read a poem by Edgar A Guest

Just kidding,

Joe

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Joe Richman
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 02:19 PM

OOPS... somebody cleared all the cookies!!! Sorry!

That last post was me

Joe

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 02:25 PM

Alison see you met mudcats equivalent to William Frazer! Side step him we all do. Nice to see you here. Welcome to mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 05:34 PM

To GUEST, thank you for your kind comment here. I am British and I am new on here and learning to find my way a round this forum. I was just annoyed with William Frazer's Website FAIR, because one of my posts was deleted from his Website. My post was not hostile at all, as I am not that kind of person. All I asked was some questions! His Website disrepected the ten volunteers who died in the 1981 hunger strikes. I felt this was unfair to the families of these ten volunteers. These families back then in 1981 had to make that awful dicision whether to take their relative off the protest knowing that they would all have to go through it all again or respect their relative's decision and let him die for Ireland. I just feel these families were victims of the conflicts too. It must have been awful to lose a relative in that way. The Website FAIR was so one-sided, as there are victims on all sides of the fence here in Ireland. William Frazer is not bringing peace to Ulster at all, as he is just angering the poeple that are on the other side of the fence to him. Kind Regards.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 06:21 PM

Alison, welcome to mudcat. I have been away since Tuesday morning and I just had to get back on to see what I have either been blamed on or called ! It's great to see you here. There are many members like yourself with Irish blood in them. Now you will see some anti-republican posts appear from time to time, never get annoyed at them, the rest of us find them a source of amusement ! It's so funny how some seem to think they are informed about Irish affairs, really they just search the net to find figures and throw up well doctored accounts at us. As you are no doubt aware our war came to an end exactly a year ago and we are now confidence to finding a peaceful political settlement. Please note this does not suit everyone, sorry, it doesn't suit one member. We have come far in the last twelve months and it's great to see it. Remember if you require the truth about anything concerning Irish history, don't hesitate to ask, always glad to help. You know yourself always best to ask someone who has lived through it than someone who can only read about it and who gives nothing more than consistently Biased one sided accounts.

Again welcome to Mudcat

Divis

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Joe Richman
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 01:24 AM

Alison,

I came across this link while doing internet searches for bluegrass and old time country music in Scotland and Ireland:

http://www.lowcountryboys.com/

This NI website, obviously posted by Protestants, doesn't have the politics or venom of Mr Frazer's site. I think they might well be right that our "hillbilly" music has a heritage from the Ulster Scots or Scotch Irish, whichever you like better.

In one section in their site they say that they found it funny to be confused with Free Presbyterians. (That's Dr Paisley's church, you know.)   I have good friends in my country who are Presbyterians, and I've met Orthodox Presbyterians ( a smaller American offshoot ), and I love them and disagree on some things with them and agree with other points, but Dr Paisley really goes off the deep end. Google him and read his websites to see what I mean. With him and drug running paramilitary gangs calling a lot of the shots, the protestant/unionist-loyalist/ulster scots (call them what you will) have their share of problems.

I may be naive but perhaps the promotion of the shared folk music heritage between the sides could be a way to start bridging the gap. It would be a lot more constructive than arguing who was worse during the time of "troubles".

Joe

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: John O'L
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 01:36 AM

...if you require the truth about anything concerning Irish history, don't hesitate to ask, always glad to help...

There is no single truth concerning any history. There are many truths for every event. If you rely on one person's truth only, you will be missing most of it. I don't expect any of the protagonists in this event to understand that, otherwise the argument would have finished long ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 06:17 AM

John O'L I am sure that you are right
Every event can be seen from many perspectives.
That is why I would never presume to start one of these debates. It is also why I try to offer an altenative viewpoint to those who do.

Sweeney, I hope you have been refreshed by your trip.
Welcome back.
You said of someone "really they just search the net to find figures and throw up well doctored accounts at us."

You should not just disregard fgures, if they are objective and not disputed.
Why don't you just point out the errors in the well doctored accounts? Perhaps you could give an example of one.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 07:14 AM

Morning Keith.
For example a site has been mentioned above called F.A.I.R. Now their list of innocent victims has been mentioned here.It's got a question or two hanging over it.

Anyone can stick a list or account on the net and to some it becomes gospel truth.

On the 22nd September 2002 the Armagh Gealic football team won the All Ireland football championship. As you can imagine people were delighted and celebrated on the streets. That night on the television news and several internet sites reported that republican mobs among the supporters attacked a County Armagh Police station with stones and petrol bombs and ripped down equipment. It so happened that I was present in that town and passed that station several times and saw none of this. These reports were issued by the P.S.N.I. and went out for days and the loyalist and unionist parties went on television calling republicans and the GAA everything.

I was called a liar and a republican apologist (nothing new in that)it must be true, because many had read it on the net.

Five weeks later The P.S.N.I. issued a statement saying "no damage occured to the station that day, no stones or petrol bombs were ever thrown" they made a mistake.

This is probably not the type of example your looking Keith, but it goes to show not all "Offical" accounts on the net are always right. That includes Republican sites as well I would imagine.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 07:16 AM

Every event can be seen from many perspectives.
That is why I would never presume to start one of these debates.

But you started this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 07:22 AM

"For example a site has been mentioned above called F.A.I.R. Now their list of innocent victims has been mentioned here.It's got a question or two hanging over it."

Not posted on this site Sweeney so a rubbish example.

The events you relate were long before you came to this site, so that abuse you got was nothing to do with anyone here.

So PLEASE some ACTUAL examples of what you were complaining of.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 07:32 AM

Guest, I started this thread but not this debate.
It started in a thread about a film. I just moved it here to save that thread.
But you know that.
You were just trying to score a cheap point against me.
Grow up.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 12:42 PM

Alison,
Sweeney posted a warning to you about those of us with a different viewpoint to his.
He said "really they just search the net to find figures and throw up well doctored accounts at us."
He has not answered my request for examples of well doctored accounts, but he has been posting elsewhere.
Is it because there are none?
I could not find any. Can you?

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 12:45 PM

Keith we have only to read your accounts of events !

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 12:52 PM

No examples then?

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 01:20 PM

OK, now what is wrong with posting figures?
I admit having done it to make my posts factual and objective.
You tend to support your views with things your Grandad told you, or things that happened to a patient in your hospital, or what some guys once told you.
I would prefer facts and figures please.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 01:36 PM

Now now Keith when all you can offer is someone elses accounts of the events, such as a British soldier or having to spent time going through figures on the net it reads a sad tale.

That is why you will notice so many members come to me either on thread or through pm.

BECAUSE I WAS THERE !

Sorry Keith to have this advantage over you.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 01:39 PM

I do not remember posting a soldier's account.
I try to stick to Irish sources.
Which of my figures do you question?

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 01:46 PM

Yes like the ones you posted about the Provo's robbing the Northern Bank !

Just accept you are out of your depth on this subject Keith, I won't hold it against you.

No one ever had to advise me on any thread I started to get out now as I was digging a hole for myself !

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 02:00 PM

Do you mean the thread where I ASKED who might have done it?
How could I know who did it. I just noted all the governements, police and security services who were saying PIRA did it.
That was nearly 2 years ago now.
No complaints since then?

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 03:19 PM

Not going to fall out with you Keith.

Let's place our cards on the table. I make no bones about my support for the Provisional IRA. I want a united Ireland. I am dam glad the campaign is over. I regret the loss of ALL life.

I lost family and close friends during the campaign. It was sore at times, bloody sore. You think I am a bitter, Well Keith you tend to look towards the forces of law and order over here as victims and the brave.

I sometimes wonder how you would react if they stopped you in the street and made remarks about the murder of someone close to you and hinted they were involved. It en't nice Keith.

You often remark about the actions of the PIRA. The litter bin bombs as you call them. They were wrong Keith.

I mentioned British soldiers who shot kids in the head with plastic bullets. 17 recorded murders, no charges against the Soldiers,I Knew two of these children. Did you ever say that was wrong ?

We are one year on after the statement by the army council which apologised to the families of "non-combatants" for killings it has carried out over the last 30 years.

I don't ask for understanding of those volunteers killed on active service. They accepted that risk.

You can throw facts and figures all day at me Keith but you will never change my mind. You never lived under an occupation I did.

You carefully come to the defence of your soldiers and your governments policies over here. The same policies saw them found gulity in European courts, visit www.birw.org/activities.html
Do you ever say they were wrong ?

We will never agree Keith and anytime you attack the Provisional IRA I will be there. I do not support dissident republicans opposed to the Northern Ireland peace process.

You rarely find me on other threads on this site when it comes to Americans in other countries or the Middle East attacking eachother, simply because I can only express a viewpoint about it, Don't know enough about it and would make a fool out of myself (nothing new in that says you) Yes I have been over there and saw things, but didn't have to live it day to day.

The figures, charts and photographs you pull down off the net will never give you a first hand account Keith.

Believe me on that one.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 05:33 PM

I never posted a soldier's account Sweeney.
You made that up as well.
But your last post was honest and i appreciate it.
I have had a few beers and do not trust myself to reply tonight.
Catch you tomorow.
Goodnight to you,
keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 05:39 PM

Keith, I don't want to get in the middle with your arguments here. I don't know enough about Ireland.

Divis, I would like to ask you a question without offended you here. I not writing on here to offend anyone as I am only trying to learn about things going on in Ireland. You say that you support Provisional IRA and not the dissident republicans, who opposed to the Northern Ireland peace process. I take it that you mean the Real IRA and the Continuity IRA, as some of them prefer to be called separately as Real IRA or Continuity IRA? From reading about them it seems that they need to see the the peace process working or they seem to think that the british government won't hand over Ireland to the Irish people. Please do correct me if I am wrong that Continuity IRA have their own peace plan with republican Sinn Fein, which does not include the british at all. I read that the Real IRA feels that this peace process is not going to work as politicians (yours or mine) have failed with sorting out the police issues. They feel the whole peace process is not working. I have also read that the Provisional IRA and the Real IRA are fighting each other over the peace process. I don't get it! They all want the same thing an united Ireland with an Irish rule, but they fight each other. I think that they all have their own pathways in achieving their goals, which in the end it will reach the same finish line with an united Ireland wuth an Irish rule.   

Divis, you have also said, "I lost family and close friends during the campaign. It was sore at times, bloody sore." This must have been awful to lose someone in the conflicts close to you such as family. This makes you one of the victims of the conflicts. You seem to be hurt a little in your post above mine here. I am not on any side of the fence here, but I am saddened by your loss. I think that all sides of the fence here had played a part in the conflicts in Ireland, that is why peace is very important to Irish people so their children don't have to go through what their parents have been through. It is difficult for a person like you to forgive the other side for your loss for the sake of peace. If you can forgive then you are a good person because you are doing this for Ireland and for all the Irish children to come in later years. With respect, Kind Regards.

Subject: RE: BS: Sorry, yet another NI thread
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 05:53 PM

So, Guest Alison..are you going to be joining us as a proper Member?