help with minidisc recorder selection

Subject: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: jimmyt
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 06:28 PM

I would like to purchase a minidisc recorder to record some of my group's rehearsals so we can remember our harmonies from rehearsal to rehearsal. Someone used one once with us and the quality was pretty good, but I have no idea what I am doing in this field. I wanted to get a recorder and one or two microphones and spend around $500. Can anyone give me some info? THanks in advance, and be gentle with me as obsiously I am not very technologically oriented.

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: michaelr
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 07:31 PM

The minidisc (MD) format is on the way out. See other threads for discussion of Sony's policy regarding the format.

I recently borrowed a friend's MD recorder to record some classes, and it was near impossible to find blank discs. I recommend that you look into alternative formats such as ones that use memory "sticks" or flash cards.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From:
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 07:39 PM

First off, Jimmyt, where do you live?

Some areas can get Mini-Discs easier than others.

There are a lot of mini-disc threads here. You might want to look at some of those first. It'll give you a great overview.

Personally, I don't think they're on the way out. I've had MD for several years, and on my third machine now. Must be about 7 years. My first one finally went and I bought another of my #2 machine, so I am up to owning 3 of them. So far they have all been Sony recorders, as I can find them easiest.

With the newest HD machines you can record for a long time on one disc and they are compact. Anyway, put minidisc or mini-disc into the Lyric and Knowledge Search up at the top. Soon someone will link this thread to many of them.

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 02:32 PM

Michael is talking through his hat-hole... The MD format only appearse to be fading because the HDMD format is here now... (Hi-Density Mini-disk)

Don't bother searhing Mudcat for MD information... go to the source...

Start browsing/shopping here
http://www.minidisco.com/index.html

Especially here (Hard to go far wrong for 200 bucks)
http://www.minidisco.com/mz-rh910.html

To chat with outher people about MD go here
http://www.minidisc.org/

(For the same reason you wouldn't ask a car mechanic about roofing your house....)

You can also PM me if you wanna chat about MD tech :-)

Good luck to ya Jimmyt...

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 02:42 PM

I have a Sony MZ NH1 and a stereo mike for same, and I can tell you I never got such good field recordings before, the quality is A1.
High Density Mini Discs is the way to go as far as I'm concerned, the only thing that comes anywhere near them is the early Creative with the microphone 'Line-in' which they don't make any more, but are still available as a refurb from their own site.
Giok

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 05:29 PM

Somewhat related current thread:

Tech: 4 Things I Need to Know

John

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: Ferrara
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 01:43 AM

Can't believe MD's are on the way out, because (so I am told) Sony has FINALLY put out MD models that allow you to upload music directly to your computer. (They used to be too paranoid about music copyright protection to allow it!)

Well, it seems to me that if they are responding to customer pressure wrt the MD's, especially in the area of copyright protection where the Sony management are still acting like mental dinosaurs, they must be getting enough sales and customer response to justify continuing to make 'em.

My own MD recorder does not upload directly, I have to input the analog sound and record it again in the computer. Bah! Still it's better than any other recorder I ever used, for convenience, unobtrusiveness, and quite good sound quality.

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 02:29 AM

"models that allow you to upload music directly to your computer"

HD-MD...

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: treewind
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 04:36 AM

Sony has FINALLY put out MD models that allow you to upload music directly to your computer. (They used to be too paranoid about music copyright protection to allow it!)
I guess that's because MD is never going to be mass media anymore, and because there's too much competition from solid state recorders that don't have that restriction.

MD is a great format and will keep going doing what it's best at - small portable live recording devices. As a musician's tool for recording rehearsals etc it's ideal.

Advice -
(1) get one with a mic input - may seem obvious but the cheaper ones used not to have one. (don't know about current)
(2) cheap electret mics do a grand job for recording rehearsals etc.
(3) visit minidisc.org for MASSES of information!

Anahata

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: Deskjet
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 06:53 PM

I recently bought a Sony MZ- NH900 which I find great for bringing to sessions, and later practicing new tunes.Perfect for the job.
A question however -
My battery has yet to declare itself fully charged - and when I press the charge button again, off it goes recharging. Is this normal?, and also how long recording time should I get on a fully charged battery? The last session I brought it to (on what I believe was a full battery) it lasted less than two and a half hours.
Is this ok?
Regards,
Brendan Devereux.

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: michaelr
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 07:16 PM

If minidiscs aren't on the way out, how come I went to 9 different stores (Radio Shack, Walgreen's, Best Buy etc) without finding any?

Regarding Sony products, after the recent revelation that their CDs install malware on computers, what do we know about what their MD recorders will do?

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: Ferrara
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 07:16 PM

Deskjet, my recorder is a SONY MZ-NF810, bought in 2003 so they may not be comparable. I Hate charging it. You have to hit the STOP button to start it charging, and it stops charging for no apparent reason, possibly if there is a surge or drop in the AC power. And of course, if you hit PLAY it stops charging until you hit STOP again. Often it isn't fully charged even if I leave it overnight. I have to keep hitting STOP again if and when I notice that it has stopped charging.

However, it lasts at least 4 or 5 hours when charged. I really don't remember how long but I have used it for about 5 hours of music each day at Augusta Vocal Week with no problem, then charged it up for the next day.

Do you have an auxiliary battery holder? Mine also runs for hours on one AA battery once the internal charge is used up. I tend to rely on this because, as I say, it doesn't necessarily take a full charge even when I try to charge it overnight.

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Nov 05 - 04:33 AM

michaelr, after spending a month in the US and going into at least 4 Radio Shacks looking for bits and pieces I have come to the conclusion that they are crap. They tend to do either components or cheap import TVs etc made for them in the far east. I have also come to the same conclusion about Walmart regarding CDs, every one a shambles, and every one a desert for our sort of music.
Giok

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: Deskjet
Date: 21 Nov 05 - 05:19 AM

Thanks Ferrara.
It seems recharging is an issue with MD's.
I had forgotten about the auxiliary battery holder. A definite addition from now on.

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 21 Nov 05 - 10:36 AM

My MZ 707 came with a rechargable battery that I almost immediatly chucked... it runs for WEEKS on one AA battery, so why dither around with recharging???

MD availability... get 'em from your local Sony store, or get 'em online like everyon else... (Radio Shack, Walgreen's, Best Buy?? What a waste of time!)

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: Ferrara
Date: 21 Nov 05 - 01:17 PM

I got mine from Circuit City. Don't know how widespread they are. I believe C City & Best Buy still carry good ones. I keep seeing new models. I like being able to exchange it immediately if I get something home & find out it's a dud.

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From:
Date: 22 Nov 05 - 05:28 PM

I agree with Clinton, I use Alkalines exclusively on my MD recorders. It will last about 6 to 8 hours. The reason a Ni-Cd or Ni-Mh rechargeable only gets to about 95% is because that is the top end. The rechargeables will get to 1.2 or 1.25 volts. Regular Alkalines run 1.5 volts.

Michaelr, no, you won't find MD machines at discount places or Radio Shack. Good electronic gadget stores should have them.

Jimmyt, the reason for asking where you are located is whether you are North American or European. Makes a difference in where to go. As someone said, check minidisc.org for a lot of info, but they tend to get techie on people. MAny of the threads here are relatively safe.

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Nov 05 - 09:46 PM

I'm sure there are plenty of people who can tell Jimmyt where to go, no matter where he currently is... ;-)

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: 12string growler
Date: 23 Nov 05 - 02:46 PM

Where you live sure does make a difference. Here in the uk, a national discount store called "ARGOS" still keeps a good selection of MD recorders and blank discs. They do have a website.

12st g

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: michaelr
Date: 23 Nov 05 - 03:26 PM

It's not the MACHINES I can't find, it's the DISCS!

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 23 Nov 05 - 03:36 PM

http://www.minidisco.com/blank-minidiscs.html

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 24 Nov 05 - 11:26 AM

Many times you can find a good purchase on Ebay. I swear by my Sharp MT15 model (portable)---use it for interviews and also (with lapel mics---purchased on Ebay) for solo music performance of a fairly acceptable level.

I believe that SHarp no longer makes MD recorders---but I may be wrong there.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From:
Date: 26 Nov 05 - 05:56 PM

Michealr, where abouts do you live? I am going to assume North America. You mentioned Wal-mart, which is an American company, in both the states and Canada.

I've been buying discs at:

Minidisc Canada

The prices are half what you can buy them for at Wal-Mart, Sony or Future Shops!

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From:
Date: 26 Nov 05 - 05:58 PM

Since it is Media you want, use this link

Blank Media

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From:
Date: 26 Nov 05 - 06:00 PM

Right now, they show Sony discs as low as 1.85 each in US$ buying in bulk!

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: GUEST,michaelr
Date: 26 Nov 05 - 10:00 PM

Thanks for the links, George and Clinton.

When I was shopping for MDs, I was leaving for Zoukfest in two days and could not wait for mail-order delivery. I live in California (not rural, either) and was shocked at the lack of availability of the minidiscs in stores.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From:
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 04:24 PM

That's odd. I know about that problem. Luckily for me, I have both the Future Shop and Sony Stores in town at major shopping malls to pick these things up in. Wal-mart seems to have stopped. I checked at one, which didn't have any, and at a second Wal-mart which did have Two-packs. Horrendous price. Luckily I have 35 blank MDs for next year. So, if I'm careful, I should be fine for next Celtic Colours.

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: jimmyt
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 04:57 PM

THanks for the input all. I just ordered Sony MZ RH10 HI-Md and a SOny ECMM S907 Stereo microphone as well as some HD Mini discs.

My next question is, how difficult is this to upload from the recorder to my computer?

Do I need a special program to accomodate this upload?

Can anyone tell me if editing is possible once onboard the computer? such as balance, blend, etc Again, I am not sophisticated in Tech at all. Although I bet you have guessed this already.    jimmyt

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: Deskjet
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 05:47 PM

Hi Jimmyt, the software to enable upload from recorder to computer will come with the minidisc.Shouldn't be a problem.

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 09:56 PM

I can still find blank mini discs at my local Wal Mart and at least three other sources in State College, which is NOT a big town... big college, but not a big town.

I've been using the Griffin iMic to transfer live MD tracks to my Mac; works great quality wise but the transfer is done in real time - boy, that's something I haven't missed a bit!

-jim

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: GUEST,Dazbo
Date: 28 Nov 05 - 08:15 AM

I've got a Sony MZ-NH700 and think it's fab. I've only had a problem once with it not charging properly (and that may well have been my fault). Once charged it seems to last about 10 - 14 hours on play back. When recording I generally use it plugged into the mains and it's certainly lasted well over two hours non-stop recording. Alkaline batteries last for ages on play back.

I use a stereo mic I got off a dealer who makes his own for about £25 (which works out at about 1/4 of the equivalent Sony mic) and works more than well enough for my needs.

Darren

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: GUEST,Dazbo
Date: 28 Nov 05 - 08:49 AM

And quite co-incidentaly, after not finding any disks recently my local independent department store is selling packets of 5 1gB disks for £6.99 - shurely some mistake. Still, their loss!

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 Nov 05 - 01:05 PM

"I can still find blank mini discs at my local Wal Mart"

You won't either... go to a real store, or get them from online like everyone else...

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: GUEST,Isogloss
Date: 28 Nov 05 - 05:30 PM

This is just great i am just going round this loop myself and this advice is really timely.

My question to those who know is these new digital MDs claim to link direct to an Apple Mac (or PC). Its the 'or PC' that inteests me as i donot have a Mac. Does anyone use one with windows based software ?

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 10:44 AM

What's the news Jimmyt???

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 02:08 PM

Thanks to Clinton and others I am now capable of making my own CDs off my Sony HD minidiscs. (Still haven't figured out how to upload the Netdisc analog stuff. grrrrrrr I have a number of regular discs.) I bought my Sony and discs at a Sony dealership.

But I have only one HD disc - one of these times I'll get more - and that's the one I use, through SonicStage and the USB cord. Slick as a vissel.

After I am finished with the current accumulation of recording and CD creating I erase the HDdisc and am ready for the next recording date.

Each month at our Folk Club I record the entire evening then take it home, insert track marks and erase the extraneous bits, then make two CDs for each set that played that night. (If there was more than one performer per set, they make their own copies)
The idea is that everybody will have a souvenir of their night on stage.

I first used AA alkaline batteries but eventually bought the rechargeable 4-battery unit. After they are charged I keep the whole kit together, ready to go.

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 03:31 PM

Whichever MD you get, the recording will only be as good as the mike you use. These seems obvious but people overlook it. I get really good results with a SonyECM-MS957 - like studio quality - in the right environment but the mike cost more than the MD

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 03:46 PM

I never bothered with minidisc recorders, mainly because Sony made it so you couldnt upload to your computer, unless it was analog which defeats the whole purpose for me.

I know the people whove been using md recorders will probably disagree and stick to their recorders.

Ive been using an Iriver Fp750 with a builtin mic/ line in. low signal to noise (no moving parts) and runs a long time on one AA battery and the quality is excellent.. (I bought it in spring and came across a number of musicians using it at FiddleTUnes at Port Townsend.
Now Im not in a position to compare the two players but the people I saw using the Iriver at FiddleTunes also used to use Minidisc recorders, but didnt bother anymore.

Ive found the recording quality excellent, and it has a builtin FM and
loads of settings for resolution. (although I would have prefered the 1gig version, but I can still fit about 8cds at the high resolution)

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: danensis
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 05:16 PM

So what is the sampling rate of this device you recommend "Iriver Fp750"?

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: treewind
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 06:03 PM

Sony's lated MD portable recorders DO (at last) allow uploading of recorded material to your computer via USB.
See the MZ-NH700 (www.minidisc.org) for example, and I think the others in that family do the same.

It's HI-MD too, which means it can use high capacity disks which are 1Gb instead of the standard 144Mb, so about 7 times the playing time, and it reformats standard MDs to double capacity too, if I've understood and remembered correctly.

Anahata

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: Tootler
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 06:43 PM

You can upload from your MD to the PC using Sony's sonic stage software, but the resulting files are in Sony's proprietary atrac format so you can't edit them on PC as none of the popular audio editing software recognises the format and Sony won't release details of the format, so if you want editable files on your PC you need to use the analogue connection.

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: treewind
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 07:02 PM

Oh, how pathetic!
It also says you can record in .WAV format on the HI-MD recorders.
If you do that, can you upload the .WAV to your PC?

I noticed that you can also use your MI-MD as a USB data drive. But no doubt all such use is quite incompatible with audio use...

Anahata

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 07:36 PM

Yes, Treewind, my uploaded files undergo WAV conversion.

Guest 3:31, the mic I bought to go with the recorder is fantastic. The best recording quality I have ever owned.

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: danensis
Date: 17 Dec 05 - 04:27 PM

I thought .wav files used a very low sampling rate, similar to that used by MP3?

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Dec 05 - 05:20 PM

? I just passed the boundaries of my knowledge, John R. :-)

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: GUEST,BanjoRay
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 04:16 AM

I just bought an iRiver H340 on eBay for just over £200. It has a built in mike, but also a mic socket as well as USB and line in and out. It has a 40 mb hard disk, and will hold hundreds of CDs in mp3 format. It's about the size of a packet of fags. You can also store digital pictures or any other computer file on it. It's a perfect bit of kit - far superior to the iPod.
Cheers
Ray

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: treewind
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 12:47 PM

John R: WAV files can be any sampling rate and bit depth, but they're usually 44.1/16 like CD, and uncompressed.

You are perhaps thinking of .WMA, the Microsoft proprietary compressed audio format, which is simlar to MP3.

Anahata

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: AKS
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 07:09 AM

This, unfortunately, is too late for JimmyT, but those of you who have plans for new gadgets, give a google on 'flash recorder' and be amazed (that Fostex MR-8 esp.)! I mean, the prices ARE coming down...

AKS

Subject: RE: help with minidisc recorder selection
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 08:50 PM

44khz 160kbps.
the model is actually Iriver FP795

you can set it at different rates.
It records in its own format which you can transfer to your computer and convert to mp3 (or conversely you can just upload mp3 files to it)