No such thing as a B-sharp

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:06 PM

I was kinda hoping josepp would link to some of his own music. I'd love to hear it.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: josepp
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:10 PM

The argument that one need not have an electrical degree to turn on a light switch is meaningless. Having been an electrician, I can do all my own electrical work. I don't have to call someone to do it for me. Same with my car. No, you don't have to be a mechanic to drive a car but it sure is nice to fix your car's problems yourself for next to nothing instead of paying $200 to some guy to replace a couple of bushings that cost $1.75 at Murray's. It's nice that if I write a song, I can jot it down myself without needing someone to do it for me.

As for folk music coming more from the heart, I think that's more myth than truth. I recently found a sheet music version of "Where Did You Sleep Last Night" that has a very nice guitar solo that I have since lifted for my own version. I've done the song for years per Lead Belly but this solo really fleshes it out tremendously. I couldn't have learned it by ear. No way I would have figured it all out. But having the music in front of me, I got it down. I learned to play blues the same way--looking at sheet music in books.

I don't know why anyone would argue that it's not a required ability. You're always a better musician for knowing it--always.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:23 PM

#As for folk music coming more from the heart, I think that's more myth than truth.#quote
more cods wallop, all music should come from the heart, music is not a mathematical exercise it is about expressing and interpreting feeling. I dont believe you can play music at all, maybe you can play the troll under the bridge, or the 3 billy goats gruffhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaoxI1DO6Sk

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Smokey.
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:27 PM

Some people learn purely by ear, occasionally with stunning results. Between those extremes there's a lot of ground. The proof of the pudding is in the eating - let us hear what results your approach to music produces - it might lend some credibility to your opinion.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Noreen
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:29 PM

YOU may be a better musician for knowing it, josepp, but YOU are not EVERYBODY.

There are people who could have learned that solo by ear; just because you couldn't, doesn't mean nobody could. People are different and learn in different ways; some, like you, learn better from the written word or note, others learn best by hearing, and a good teacher knows this.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: josepp
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:32 PM

////I dont believe you can play music at all////

I don't care what you think.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: josepp
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:33 PM

/////YOU may be a better musician for knowing it, josepp, but YOU are not EVERYBODY./////

That's where you're wrong. I am everybody. That's exactly who I am.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: mandomad
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:52 PM

Nuff said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Noreen
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:52 PM

hmmmm.....

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Noreen
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:53 PM

No, josepp, you're definitely not me.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 06:55 PM

"'triple sharps' and 'triple flats'

Mark my words, laddy, go too far down that road and you'll end up silly in the head.. "

Sorry ate the whole bag of peanuts while waiting for the merry go round to slow down again....

A guitarist will often play in 'triple sharp mode' maybe even quadruple or quintuple sharp mode....


... or am I just too sharp for you lot who use capos.... :-P


What do you mean 'end up' - I was BORN this way ... :-p

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 07:00 PM

"That's where you're wrong. I am everybody. That's exactly who I am. "

You're right Don ... just another Troll, but one who frequents the Music threads for a change ...... :-)

Now, where did the peanut vendor go ....

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Crowhugger
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 07:09 PM

The peanut cart guy says he'll be back around in a jiffy. Just in time to stock up for the next hundred.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: John P
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 07:12 PM

I've been a professional musician for 40 years, starting with rock and blues and ending up for the last 25 years in traditional folk music. I'm not a theory nerd, but I have a VERY good understanding of the theory used in all the types of music I've played.

I can state positively that folk music has no B#. Most folk music is only loosely notated, if at all, and 90% of it is diatonic and in the keys of D, G, A, F, C, and relative minors. No B#s anywhere. No need to even consider the concept. Neither rock music nor the blues has a B#, either.

I don't do a lot of teaching, but when I do it is because there is someone who wants to learn what I do. This NEVER includes a detailed lesson in esoteric classical music theory. It does include a complete understanding of the applicable theory. This doesn't mean that I'm a bad teacher or a fraud. It just means that a B# is only pertinent to a very small group of musicians. The rest of us (maybe 99% of the musicians in the world??) simply have no use for it and no reason to learn about it.

If the teacher in question was supposed to be teaching detailed classical music theory or high level classical performing, then, yes, he should be teaching the B#. If he's supposed to be teaching guitar, he really should be teaching guitar.

Lastly, josepp, aren't you the one who keeps prattling on about how you don't "believe" in evolution, and think Creationism makes more sense? And you are bitching about someone else's lack of academic rigor?????? Your beliefs are a MUCH bigger threat to our culture than a music teacher who doesn't go into all the details, and is highly insulting besides. If you are going to be a pedant, you might want to consider getting a better general education before you start typing. Someone who spreads the level of misinformed twattle you do should be more cautious about calling a kettle black.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: kendall
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 07:52 PM

Even if I could read music I could never play my favorite music; for example, Beethoven's Violin concerto in D.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 08:00 PM

Kendall, the fact that you don't play the violin should not stop you (it certainly never stops people with far less talent than you!) - I have a wonderful 'music teaching' book that show kiddies 'in a fun way' how to play and appreciate 'great music'.

One of the early pieces (before learning how to play too many of those annoying black notes on the keyboard) is the famous 'Air in G'.

Want a Good Laugh?

It is set in the Key of F Major ....

:-)

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 08:15 PM

Air in G? Is that the Air on a G String? It's actually an adaptation by August Wilhelmj of the Air, the second movement from Johann Sebastian Bach's Orchestral Suite No. 3 in D major, BWV 1068.

The original orchestral suite was written by Bach for his patron Prince Leopold of Anhalt sometime between the years 1717 and 1723.

The title comes from violinist August Wilhelmj's late 19th century arrangement of the piece for violin and piano. By transposing the key of the piece from its original D major to C major and transposing the melody down an octave, Wilhelmj was able to play the piece on only one string of his violin, the G string.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: gnu
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 08:18 PM

Who knew such a "technicality" could provide so many interesting, complex and humourous posts. What a great thread!

Ahhh, sorry... my post is none of the above. Perhaps encouragment for more of the above?... I hope.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 08:26 PM

That's it Dave. Thanks for the info I didn't know about the history of that piece, an even better laugh then ... :-)

I think I shall learn it on the Piano Accordion in B# Major now, inspired by this thread.

I like to take up challenges...

For years they laughed at me when I said I could play the Piano Accordion.

They're still laughing ...

Ah gnu - even Trolls have their uses for the learned and intelligent! :-)

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: josepp
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 08:29 PM

///No, josepp, you're definitely not me.////

I am you. You're just not me.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 08:41 PM

QUOTE
"///No, josepp, you're definitely not me.////

I am you. You're just not me. "
UNQUOTE

What? lost your Dick now josepp?

Sorry Spaw, I beat you to it, yer gettin' old... :-P

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: josepp
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 08:46 PM

///I've been a professional musician for 40 years, starting with rock and blues and ending up for the last 25 years in traditional folk music. I'm not a theory nerd, but I have a VERY good understanding of the theory used in all the types of music I've played.

I can state positively that folk music has no B#.////

Now, that was stupid, wasn't it? You know you're going to get proven wrong. I'm looking at sheet music for a song called "You Don't Know My Mind" and in the 4th measure--lo and behold!--a B-sharp.

And even if you were right, it has no earing on the discussion. I'll refresh it for you: It's about the fact that B-sharp exists not whether you've ever ecncountered in your music.

Are we stright now?

///Most folk music is only loosely notated, if at all, and 90% of it is diatonic and in the keys of D, G, A, F, C, and relative minors. No B#s anywhere. No need to even consider the concept. Neither rock music nor the blues has a B#, either.////

Well, I just proved you wrong so that's neither here nor there.

///I don't do a lot of teaching,///

That's good.

///Lastly, josepp, aren't you the one who keeps prattling on about how you don't "believe" in evolution, and think Creationism makes more sense?////

I did??? Could you quote me that, please?

///And you are bitching about someone else's lack of academic rigor??????////

Since you're already wrong, let's go here, okay?

Psst! I'm NOT a Christian! I wasn't even born one!!!

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: josepp
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 08:48 PM

///What? lost your Dick now josepp?

Sorry Spaw, I beat you to it, yer gettin' old... :-P///

I'm sorry, I don't understand what this means, could you explain it, please?

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Lox
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 08:49 PM

Well to play a song in the key of C#, you just play the same as if it was in C, but with every note sharp.

Regardless of whether its Folk or not.

So if your song in the key of C has a B in it, then the same song in the key of C# would have a B# in it.

Its the simplest and most practical way of getting the point across.

I hate it when both people who can read and people who can't read treat it like some kind of mysterious secret academic language.


Don, you talk about flicking the light switch.

I prefer to compare it to driving a car.

Some people are passengers, some know how to make it go from A to B and some know why that clunking noise means you need to pull over right now.

Passengers - listen to music.
Drivers    - play music.
Engineers - understand how music works.


Knowing how something works helps you use it better.

There's no mystery.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: josepp
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 08:55 PM

////Knowing how something works helps you use it better.

There's no mystery.////

It's seems to be a gigantic mystery to some people.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 09:32 PM

Given that the assignment of A B C ... etc to notes is entirely arbitrary, the entire debate is complete sophistry.

THERE IS NO specific pitch that is always "correctly" any particular note or that is accurately described by that terminology.

That particular terminology is simply a "shorthand" for the correct description of a note by giving its "interval" from some arbitrarily chosen "base note" within the context of a specifically declared tonal scale structure and in a correctly delineated modal shift.

A "real music theorist," if striving for accuracy and if communicating with other theorists who have a need to understand the fine points and who want to understand the important specifics of a musical composition would probably use something closer to the "Nashville Notation" and would completely ignore the triviality of any particular "key" or any "note names."

Only the intervals really matter.

From the beginning, there is no "A" that has any specific meaning. It's whatever note the concertmaster plays when the ochestra tunes up.

The ABC scale notation is baby talk, and apparently josepp speaks it well. It is perfectly and completely adequate for most uses of interest to the majority of people in common situations, but it's still NOT the language of the most competent musicians or music theorests.

There's no "k" in classic Spanish either, but Spanish speakers do use it quite a lot. No big deal.

John

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: andrew e
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 10:08 PM

Well I looked at my keyboard and I can't see a B# or an E#.

Can't see a C flat or an F flat either.

They must be hiding inside somewhere.

Someone told me a D double flat was the same as a B#
That can't be right, or maybe it is!

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Smokey.
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 10:16 PM

"all music should come from the heart, music is not a mathematical exercise it is about expressing and interpreting feeling"

Well said, Mr Schweik, and audiences generally know the difference, even if they aren't consciously aware of it. Knowledge of theory can undoubtedy enhance musical ability, but only if that ability is there in the first place. As for the music teacher, I don't believe he ever said what was claimed.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 10:48 PM

Someone told me a D double flat was the same as a B#

Unfortunately, not a good guess.

A flat must be "attached to" a note. ("Associated with a note" is another way of saying it.)

A flat means "play the note one semitone lower."

A double flat means "play the not two semitones lower."

D♭♭ is E.

There are "character glyphs" commonly used to call for double sharps and double flats in music notation (and others less commonly used), but unfortunately those characters are not defined in the Unicode "Music Characters" section, so even if you have them it's not a good idea to try to post them here.

Using the note that's enharmonic (at the same pitch) with the double sharped or flatted note will be recognized by competent players, and will be played with the inflections in pitch and tonality appropriate to the scale and mode of the piece it appears in, so the symbols are actually quite rarely used except in notation of "artifacts" or by people named Igor or Darius (both of whom sometimes used "additional invented symbols" that require explanation even for the well educated theorists since they're unique to individual pieces and to the rather erratic moods of those composers).

John

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 10:51 PM

Oops.

D- double flatted is C

(unless one has very fat fingers)

John

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 11:00 PM

I'm going to have to disagree with JohnInKansas about the arbitrary nature of note name assignments. They're not arbitrary. They were intentionally assigned by a sadistic SOB. Why else would five of the seven letters used sound so much alike?

Common scene at a session in a noisy pub:
"What key is this next tune in?"
"B minor."
"I couldn't hear you. Was that E minor or D minor?"
"B."
"Okay, D."
"No, B! Aw, fuck it! Let's play something in F."

Anyone with any consideration for his fellow humans would have used words that didn't sound the same. Like "Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Indigo, Violet." If someone were to tell you a tune's in "Orange minor" you'd never wonder about whether he said "Orange" or "Indigo".

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 11:03 PM

Uh, what key? Door hinge what?

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Mooh
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 11:12 PM

Instructors run the risk of having their lessons taken out of context. I routinely say something to the effect of "Yes, there is such a thing as a B#, but for now, while you're still playing in C, G, D, F, you don't need to worry about it." followed by a quick description of when a B# may happen (if I think the student will get it). Or, "If you're naming the piano keys with basic note names, then you'd only call a C B# in certain circumstances." Etc. An instructor should be careful not to say something as definite as "there's no such thing" if he really has no such knowledge. The problem with those who have no such knowledge is they don't know they have no such knowledge.

Just today I had a private music student swear to me that his high school guitar class teacher taught the class that a C/G chord was a C major and G major chord combined. I hope the teacher was misquoted, but I wrote a definition/description of the chord for the student anyway. It's not the first such report, and not likely the last, so I try to be careful to debunk this nonsense when I hear it.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 04:38 AM

Joesepp, you are incorrect. The job of a guitar teacher is to teach guitar. The job of a music theory teacher is to teach theory.

I remember when learning trombone that the teacher played a game which involved enharmonics. That doesn't actually mess with you, and I have a friend with perfect pitch who says "Yes, they are technically different. However, for the purposes of learning you can use the enharmonic equivalent seeing as you'll naturally switch to the right note when playing. Ish."

I'm of the opinion that we should be writing out folk songs seeing as I think we might lose them next generation, but the point is I don't like playing from music if I can avoid it. Makes me feel like I'm cheating somehow.

Essentially, troll = incorrect.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Lox
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 04:54 AM

Sorry, but the following is not anything like as clever as it purports to be.

"Given that the assignment of A B C ... etc to notes is entirely arbitrary, the entire debate is complete sophistry."

The same thing can be said about the letters and words you use to indicate the ideas you are trying to convey.

Thankfully, noone disputes the usefulness of reading words so you are able to explain your misunderstanding clearly and I am able to correct you without us ever hhaving to meet.

In addition, being able to read and write is useful in helping people to understand concepts more clearly, which is why taking notes and writing essays are useful skills.

The same applies in music. Being able to read it and write it are extremely useful skills that assist not just in communication, but in the visualization of theoretical ideas and concepts.


The subject matter is communication and if you are misinformed about the meaning of words ot the sound of letters, you will end up confusing yourself and others.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Lox
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 04:55 AM

"Someone told me a D double flat was the same as a B#
That can't be right, or maybe it is!"

Its silly, but 100% correct.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Lox
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 04:59 AM

Sorry John - I'm not picking on you on purpose ...


Yes ... D double flat is enharmonically the same as C ...

... but B# is also enharmonically the same as C


... so I'm afraid that D double flat is indeed the same as B#

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Lox
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 05:04 AM

"all music should come from the heart, music is not a mathematical exercise it is about expressing and interpreting feeling"


If I write down a poem, lots of people who I might never meet could see it and then they would know just what a horrendous poet I am.


Before literacy was commonplace, there were those who saw it as the work of the devil - mysterious inscriptions that contained some kind of weird power.

Here I read about written music as being some kind of impossible abstract exercise.

It isn't.

When you can't read, the written medium is intimidating.

Suspicion of writing and reading is medieval.

Reminds me of Bill Hicks being asked by the waitress in a texan waffle house: "so ... you're a reader".

It isn't the middle ages folks.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 05:09 AM

I mentioned this point much earlier in the thread, but it does seem to be pertinent.

When I'm playing the violin, one thing which is crucial to the overall sound of the piece is intonation. To me, the violin is the most complex of all instruments (and I play several, in many different styles). Depending on the melodic lines of the piece that's being played, there is a tiny but significant difference in intonation between two notes which, on paper, look the same. For example, a note may be written as C on the staff but, when you come to play it, the subtlety of intonation might demand that it's actually played slightly flat - more akin to a "B#" than a full-bodied C. Only the ear can distinguish this tiny difference - it can't be notated in real terms, but it does exist. My violin lessons, with an excellent teacher, demonstrated it beyond any doubt.


(The violin teacher, by the way, is classically trained but also plays her own compositions, old-time, folk ,jazz,blues beautifully - and is an encouraging and inspiring teacher. All three necessary ingredients: (a) she understands theory (b) she can play well (c) she can teach it).

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 05:24 AM

If we're honest, the harmony in play means that each note is different dependant on the chord. We could argue that we should write something different for each possible combination of note and underlying chord.

That's stupidity. The aim of written music is to give you the basic idea. Your musicality should do the rest - no matter what genre you're in. The fun thing that you can imagine is that those without music tend to be much more harmonically pleasing because they aren't thinking "must play/sing C".

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 05:29 AM

"I'm sorry, I don't understand what this means, could you explain it, please? "

No, I could NOT explain it - it's sort of a 'you had to have been there' joke.

You're new here. :-)


Trolls don't know everything... :-P

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 05:33 AM

Sorry, my earlier post was incoplete:
Let's simplify this.
The key of C major comprises the following notes:
C
C##
C####
C#####
C#######
C#########
C###########
C############ (or just C)

Those are, of course, the notes in a rising scale. When playing a falling scale from Top C the notes should be:
C
Cb
Cbbb
Cbbbbb
Cbbbbbbb
Cbbbbbbbb
Cbbbbbbbbbb
Cbbbbbbbbbbbb (or just C)

Cheers
Nigel

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 05:35 AM

But Fooles, trolls are the Death and Taxes of the internet! They must be right!

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Lox
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 05:36 AM

No so DrugCrazed,

That is why you have key signatures.

If a song is in the key of Gmajor, it will have an F# in it.

Instead of putting in the sharp every time you get to an F, you just put the # att the beginning of the stave.

Someone who can read sees one sharp and knows to play the tune in the key of G.

The music on the stave will have no sharps or flats in it unless it goes into a different key.

Most folk is in one key and the chords are all in that key, so the nightmare you have imagined wouldn't happen.

In complex music like Jazz, you will find more sharps and flats written, but you need to start with basic literacy before moving n to tat stuff.

Its all about familiarity.

When a child learns to read, they read out loud without giving the words any feeling. After years of reading, they can read in their heads and "hear" the book vividly.

Actors can look at a script and as they read it they hear the voice of the character and are able to give the words feeling and depth.

Music is EXACTLY the same.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Lox
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 05:38 AM

Sorry drugcrazed - crossposted.


I was responding to your previous post.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: harmonic miner
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 05:46 AM

Not sure if a degree in music is intrinsically of any use whatsoever to PERFORM music. You can have one and still not be a good musician. Regarding the TEACHING of music, it all depends. The best traditional musicians often have learned from other great traditional musicians and this has continued for centuries without a degree anywhere along the line. Also without reference to music thoery or sheet music.

There's no way I can agree with the above statement on sheet music, "...they can all play straight off sheet music. That is how it should be. Anything less damages our culture" Who's culture?

If I were choosing a teacher I'd want to (a) hear them play, (b) see them teach and possibly (c) hear their pupils play. I wouldn't necessarily rule out hiring someone who had played guitar in 5 rock bands over the last 10 years, without a formal qualification.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Lox
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 05:54 AM

Mooh

Depending on how its written, C over G could be either a slash chord or a polychord.

C/G with a diagonal slash would be read as C major in second inversion. (slash chord)

C over G written like a numerical fraction over a horizontal line can mean the 'polychord' of C major triad superimposed on top of G major Triad.

In the case of a polychord, you would see the chord on the bottom as the root, and the chord on top as the extensions.

The result for C over G would be a Gmaj6 (add 11). Not a pretty chord but perfectly possible.

The other way around (G over C) would be Cmaj9 - an altogether more useful chord.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: harmonic miner
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 05:54 AM

To clarify, sheet music may well be intrinsic to some musical 'cultures' but not all of them.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 06:04 AM

"Actors can look at a script and as they read it they hear the voice of the character and are able to give the words feeling and depth."

I'm going to transform the merrygoround into the Ghost Train ...

When I was involved in Theatre, the stage manager contacted me at work and said, "The lead actor can' be here tonight, I don't want to cancel, can you read it?" I'm not excellent actor, but do 'know the ropes' in theatre and although I have a nightmare getting words down rapidly, with the words, it's MUCH easier.... :-)

'Reading' is when someone who has not been involved as an actor in a production steps in at the last minute. He/she carries the script, because it cannot be expected to get the words in a short time, but the audience is informed beforehand. Most theatre goers would not DREAM of asking for their money back, as this is a wonderful insight into live theatre, and watching how the 'sucker' handles things is enlightening anyway. I know of one case where the lead had a heart attack on stage (he recovered and lived many years) during act 1 - someone from the audience stepped in and read the show, and took over the role for the rest of the run, reading for a few nights till he got the words off.

Now, as you said, 'reading' allows full expression of other things not on the page. As the lighting and sound expert of the group, I had watched a few rehearsals and read the play to 'do' the lighting (another skill, but that's a long story itself how one does that). I asked for the cast to 'give me a walkthru' to get the stage positions of each of the other actors relative to me. Some of the actors who had never done this trick before were not all that cooperative, but I got my walkthru.

On the night, it is not immodest to say that I stole the show - wasn't hard, was a style of comedy that I loved, and they were not really all that experienced theatre or comedy people, anyway. BTW, that guy never 'called in sick' again ... :-)

The script is like 'the dots' in music. One CAN remember it, but I like the quote by Sean Connery in a Indiana Jones movie

"I wrote it down so I WOULDN'T HAVE TO remember it!"

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Lox
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 06:10 AM

"To clarify, sheet music may well be intrinsic to some musical 'cultures' but not all of them."

If you can hear it, you can write it down ...

... unless you don't feel like it in which case thats fine.

Its just a form of recording - like a photo, or a CD.

Except that the written page helps the person with a weak ear to know what they have to do.

Music is about sounds with meaning. (just like language)

Sheet music is about writing them down and reading them out. (just like language)