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The effect of country music on suicide
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Subject: The effect of country music on suicide From: Wolfgang Date: 20 Oct 04 - 04:58 AM This is safely music related BS and depending upon the course of the reaction could land on the south side of Mudcat. The 2004 IG Noble prize for medicine ("The Ig Nobel awards are arguably the highlight of the scientific calendar." Nature) has been awarded to Steven Stack of Wayne State University, Detroit, Michigan, USA and James Gundlach of Auburn University, Auburn, Alabama, USA, for their published report "The Effect of Country Music on Suicide." PUBLISHED IN: Social Forces, vol. 71, no. 1, September 1992, pp. 211-8. This article assesses the link between country music and metropolitan suicide rates. Country music is hypothesized to nurture a suicidal mood through its concerns with problems common in the suicidal population, such as marital discord, alcohol abuse, and alienation from work. The results of a multiple regression analysis of 49 metropolitan areas show that the greater the airtime devoted to country music, the greater the white suicide rate. The effect is independent of divorce, southernness, poverty, and gun availability. The existence of a country music subculture is thought to reinforce the link between country music and suicide. Our model explains 51% of the variance in urban white suicide rates. (article abstract) Mudcatters who click on the Ig Nobel homepage may want to pay attention to this years IG Nobel prize for Biology and realise that one winner has already been discussed in Mudcat. This could lead to an interesting reasearch project: Does the discussion of a scientific result in Mudcat predict a later nomination for the IG Nobel prize? On the serious side: The effect of different types of music on humans is actually an interesting question and it is not at all clear yet whether music forms people in a certain way or whether people already formed choose the music that suits them (or both, of course). Wolfgan |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Fossil Date: 20 Oct 04 - 07:02 AM Well, they do say that if you STOP listening to country music, your wife comes back to you, the truck gets itself outta the ditch and the dog comes back to life... Other than that, I guess they'd have to be pretty danged careful with the statistics before you could ever establish any link between music and suicide rates. Lawyers have been trying to hang causation on some prescription drugs for a few years now, without much success. And wasn't there a court case involving an attempted suicide by some idiot who claimed that Black Sabbath had told him to do it? I don't think they established that one, either. |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Dave Hanson Date: 20 Oct 04 - 08:26 AM If I have to listen to any more country and western I'll kill myself. eric |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: GUEST,Hootenanny Date: 20 Oct 04 - 09:29 AM How do they define country music ?? Uncle Dave Macon / or the big hat pop music brigade that comes out of Nashville currently ? |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: MaineDog Date: 20 Oct 04 - 09:53 AM We all know that a proper country song MUST at least mention all of these: trucks divorce suicide Jesus drinking trains sex dawgs good times at the Honky-tonk --- and several others I forgot. It seems to me that a well balanced country tune should cancel itself out and have no effect. I suspect that any research to date has been superficial, and not addressed the balance issue. MD |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Paco Rabanne Date: 20 Oct 04 - 10:01 AM What a load of cobblers! I hope this shite wasn't produced at the tax payers expense. |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: GUEST,Betsy Date: 20 Oct 04 - 10:12 AM I'm with Eric the Red and Super Ted's comments. Personally I cannot stand this banal, brain-dead, self pitying form of entertainment - not to mention Line Dancing .Oh Dear !!! |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: GUEST Date: 20 Oct 04 - 10:22 AM A gay man walks into a country bar and says, "I just want everyone to know that I'm gay, but I won't hit on anyone. I just like country music." The bartender says that it's okay and the man stays. The next day the gay man comes back with another guy and says, "This is my brother. I just want everyone to know that we're gay, but we won't hit on anyone. We just like country music." The bartender again says that is okay and the men stay. Again, the next day the man comes back, but this time he is with even more men and says, "These are my cousins and my brother. I just want everyone to know that we're gay, but we won't hit on anyone. We just like country music." The bartender finally gets curious and asks, "Hey, doesn't ANYONE in your family like pussy?" The gay man replies, "Yeah, but she doesn't like country music." |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Dave Hanson Date: 20 Oct 04 - 10:31 AM Country music is more or less folk music, it's country AND western that is crap. eric |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Amos Date: 20 Oct 04 - 10:40 AM HEy, hey, guys!! This IgNobel stuff is all haywire -- this is important research!!! If it is true that devoting airtime to C&W increases the suicide rate, then the Homeland Security department has a serious challenge to answer -- finding the opposite of Country Music -- perhaps it is 19th Century Songs of Empire from the UK, or maybe it is 1950's era brainless style music like Hokey-Pokey or Little Blue Man -- and immediately beginning a major program to flood the airwaves witht hat. Now, Connie Francis makes ME suicidal, so I don't believe that's the answer, but it might be...lessee...trumpet concerti? Or maybe barrelhouse blues? A |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Oct 04 - 10:41 AM The question would be (assuming the research is accurate), does listening to country music make you more inclined to be suicidal, or does being suicidally inclined make you more likely to country music? There have been other cases of songs being (allegedly) linked to suicide, notably a Hungarian song - Gloomy Sunday. Here is the literal English translation: It is autumn and the leaves are falling All love has died on earth The wind is weeping with sorrowful tears My heart will never hope for a new spring again My tears and my sorrows are all in vain People are heartless, greedy and wicked... Love has died! The world has come to its end, hope has ceased to have a meaning Cities are being wiped out, shrapnel is making music Meadows are coloured red with human blood There are dead people on the streets everywhere I will say another quiet prayer: People are sinners, Lord, they make mistakes... The world has ended! Makes country music appear quite cheerful. Hell, it makes Leonard Cohen sound quite upbeat. (And the man who wrote it ended up jumping out of a high window.) |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: GUEST,Mingulay Date: 20 Oct 04 - 11:25 AM That's really brightened up my day McGrath. Until I read that I was feeling quite down. This sounds like a description of Armageddon. As in armageddon out of here. |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Wolfgang Date: 20 Oct 04 - 01:05 PM The question would be (assuming the research is accurate), does listening to country music make you more inclined to be suicidal, or does being suicidally inclined make you more likely to country music? (McGrath) A multiple regression analysis as has been done does not answer this question. There could even be no causal link at all between the two variables, if there was a truly causal variable linked to these two variables that has not been included in the model. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: GUEST,amergin Date: 20 Oct 04 - 01:11 PM If McGonogall were alive today he would have made a fortune writing country songs... |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Big Al Whittle Date: 20 Oct 04 - 01:26 PM I don't think you lot should be so nasty to us country (and western) music lovers. Blaming your suicidal tendencies on Tex Ritter and Gene Autry is a bit rich. Isn't there a place in your hearts for Barney the Bashful Bullfrog, and what of Jim Reeves singing Old Tige. Good news for all the Jim Reeves fans by the way Daniel O'Donnel has a new album out devoted exclusively to Gentleman Jim's songs. Donegal Danny strikes again! |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Emma B Date: 20 Oct 04 - 01:35 PM Good ole' Radio 4 devoted a half hour programme to "Gloomy Sunday" on Tuesday lunchtime - including a stunning version by Billie Holliday. The BBC banned certain versions as they were considered dangerous and could influence dozens of listeners to take their own lives! I've just been to a C&W weekend in a North Wales holiday camp (moral support for a country muscian) Suicidal? - I'm still laughing! - maybe it's just the way the Brits do it! |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Big Al Whittle Date: 20 Oct 04 - 01:44 PM Laughing at us - how dare you? signed Wyatt and Doc Holiday |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: GLoux Date: 20 Oct 04 - 01:53 PM Speaking of suicidal, how about Moody Bluegrass - A Nashville Tribute to the Moody Blues. At first I thought it was a joke... -Greg |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Oct 04 - 01:57 PM If McGonagall were alive today he would have made a fortune writing country songs... Not so - he was always straining for the grandiloquent and high-flown (and missing it every time). That's the reverse of what country music songwriters do. In both cases the result can be bathos, but for very different reasons.(With McGonagall it's invariably bathos, with country music more often than not it escapes falling into the trap.) One possible flaw in the methodology of the research - they seem to have based it on the number of hours put out by local radio, rather than on the listening figures. Those might well amount to the same thing, but not necessarily. And as has been pointed out "country music" can mean a whole lot of different things. |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Emma B Date: 20 Oct 04 - 05:14 PM Sorry weelittledrummer - i think I saw you both there - were you the guys with the funny hats and guns sitting next to the blokes in full Confederate uniforms? What really had me rolling was the song about loving one's best friend wife (what else?) that rhymed "disgrace" with "I have to call my woman What's-her-face"! - I'm sorry but I can't take the lyrics seriously! However I have to confess to being a big fan of Jimmy Rogers and the Carter Family |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Once Famous Date: 20 Oct 04 - 05:40 PM The guy who wrote this crap should be tied to a chair and be made to listen to with headphones on at loud volume great country music like Hank williams, Lefty Frizzel, Buck Owens, Marty Robbins, Guy Clark, Lyle Lovett, maybe a few others. As for Eric the Red, I wonder how much you really know about American country music and American folk music. Most quavering voiced British music is like sheep braying. |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: freightdawg Date: 20 Oct 04 - 05:47 PM Ah, come on. Country and Western causes suicide? Our class song when I graduated was Kansas' "Dust in the Wind." Can anyone name me a C&W song more suicidal than that? Yet, no one in our class entered the big sleep. Country and Western is also about horses and dogs and winning the west and Loretta Lynn singin, "Stand by your mannnnnn, give him two armmmms to cling toooooo" Freightdawg |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Oct 04 - 06:37 PM The point about miserable songs is that they can make you feel better. Of course if you're really miserable I can imagine they could tip you over the edge. But I think happy songs would be much more likely to do that. And of course there is plenty of happy country music. Perhaps what happens is that, feeling really low, you tune into listen to a miserable song to help you make it through the night. And out comes some really jolly number about how happy everyone else is - and it leaves you feeling that you can see no alternatve but to blow your brains out. |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: GUEST Date: 20 Oct 04 - 06:56 PM Since they let my grandma out of prison things down on the farm aint been the same now they've gone let her out the gaol house shes drove my god dammed truck into a train I rest my case! Skipy |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Peace Date: 20 Oct 04 - 08:01 PM Lyle Lovett is one helluva musician. That man can play guitar like Django, but with more fingers. Gotta admit that Reba makes me wanna hit the radio, but lotsa stuff is great. Listen to Alison Krauss and Union Station sometime. That gal has got major class, shitkickers an' all. Anyway, to the point: Grade four kid goes on a field trip to a farm. Dad asks him what he learned in school. Kid says, "We saw, ducks, chickens, pigs, fuckers, geese, sheep--." His dad said, "Whoa, whoa. Repeat that." Kid says, ". . . ducks, chickens, pigs , fuckers--." Dad says, "I am sure your teacher didn't say THAT!" Kid says, "Well, she called them heifers, but we know what she meant." |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 20 Oct 04 - 08:47 PM "Makes country music appear quite cheerful. Hell, it makes Leonard Cohen sound quite upbeat. (And the man who wrote it ended up jumping out of a high window.)" Don't forget what happened to the guy who had a hit with "Don't worry, be happy"!!!! ~~~~~~~~~ "Perhaps what happens is that, feeling really low, you tune into listen to a miserable song to help you make it through the night. And out comes some really jolly number about how happy everyone else is - and it leaves you feeling that you can see no alternatve but to blow your brains out. " Got it in one, McGrath! |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Ebbie Date: 20 Oct 04 - 11:32 PM Oh, oh, Freightdawg, Loretta (Don't come home a-drinkin' with lovin' on your mind) Lynn would get you for that one. That was Tammy Wynette. |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 20 Oct 04 - 11:54 PM Country music usually makes me grin, unless it is the super-patriotic stuff. And hey, I can remember part of that song, McGrath, but we had different words- Sunday is gloomy, my hours are slumberless -- numberless Little white flowers will never awaken you- Not where the black hearse of sorrow has taken you- Gloomy Sunday Something, something-- Death is no dream for in death I'm caressing you- With the last breath of my soul I'm caressing you- Gloomy Sunday Naow thet thar is reel sooeyside music. |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Dave Hanson Date: 21 Oct 04 - 05:08 AM Yo Martin Gibson, I love good American folk music, bluegrass and old timey, it's stuff like D.I.V.O.R.C.E. and The Lightning Express that make you want to slash you wrists, peurile crap is the best thing I can say about it. And pull that broomstick out of your arse and don't tke it so personal. eric |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Ellenpoly Date: 21 Oct 04 - 05:43 AM Wonderful thread for a good chuckle, thanks. Being clinically depressed makes me somewhat of an expert on this subject and I have to say that Bad country music (to be differentiated from a whole lot of Good country music) doesn't make me suicidal-it makes me HOMECIDAL. Did these folks really win an award for this study? That make me just nauseous. For all-time depressing music folks, I suggest Mahler, which I adore. Somebody pass me a sharp knife... For cutting my veggies while listening to Johnny Cash, thanks. ..xx..e |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: GUEST,Mingulay Date: 21 Oct 04 - 07:18 AM With you Eric the Red. Perhaps if Martin Gibson did pull the broomstick out of his arse he wouldn't waver so much. On the other hand there'd be nothing to keep his brains in. |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Wolfgang Date: 21 Oct 04 - 08:24 AM Those here who fire off value judgements without any additional knowledge or having read the original study make me grin. That is about as meaningful as judging the quality of music from the cover of a CD. The airtime of country music was just one of many variables studied. It did make the title for it is a catchy attention grabber. For the reason McGrath has pointed out and more reasons this effect alone should not be taken very serious. Scientifically much more interesting (but without music angle) are the effect not found. The effect is independent of divorce, southernness, poverty, and gun availability. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: leeneia Date: 21 Oct 04 - 12:14 PM When I am forced to listen to Nashville country, my thoughts tend more toward the homicidal than the suicidal. However, I am modifying them to be more practical. I look at the speakers and ask myself, "What would happen if somebody aimed a high-powered competition slingshot right at that thing?" |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Big Al Whittle Date: 21 Oct 04 - 01:49 PM Very nice to see you back Martin. From wherever you've been. Of course we sound like sheep. We're famous for it. You probably remember the first of us that was cloned, Dolly the singing sheep. Name after you know who. Now just remind me again who it is you're voting for in the upcoming election - I wouldn't upset you for the world. |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Steve-o Date: 21 Oct 04 - 02:47 PM It's TODAY'S "Country Music" that makes people want to commit suicide and/or homicide, because IT AIN'T COUNTRY OR EVEN CLOSE ANY MORE. As previously stated, the real item IS Gene Autry, Hank Williams, Lefty Frizzel, Buck Owens, Patsy Cline, Marty Robbins, Emmy Lou Harris, Guy Clark, Lyle Lovett, and many more. When THEY sing a song about loss and sadness, they make you want to stand up and cheer. |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Joe_F Date: 21 Oct 04 - 09:54 PM What is country music? Does Tommy Thompson's "Hot Buttered Rum" count? It is an important consolation for me. |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: freightdawg Date: 21 Oct 04 - 10:28 PM Ebbie, thanks for the gentle wet noodle thrashing there. I was hoping I had that one right... Of all the things I miss as I get older, the thing I miss the most is my mind. ;-) Freightdawg |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Big Al Whittle Date: 22 Oct 04 - 01:37 AM Dunno bout anybody else but I am really looking forward to the history channel 7pm tonight - apparently they're going to prove something about Wyatt earp with DNA.... maybe all these years we thought it was him at the ok corral whereas.......the clantons and macloweries actually all committed suicide......down at the Oriental saloon there was a particularly heartrending version of Old Shep and they all thought...well if life is really that sad.....that poor little dog......lets all top ourselves. Wyatt arrived on the scene tried to reason with them, offered them counselling and a place on a self help programme, doc holliday tried mouth to mouth resuscitation, but it was to no avail well its a theory..... |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Big Al Whittle Date: 22 Oct 04 - 06:24 AM the programmes tomorrow night- sorry |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: leeneia Date: 22 Oct 04 - 10:49 AM Thank you, weelittledrummer, for clearing that up. I always get a warm glow when I'm in the know about something that everyone else has wrong, especially when it's something as hyped as the OK corral. PS Lemmings don't run to the sea, either. |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Once Famous Date: 22 Oct 04 - 11:54 AM Eric the red, I didn't take it personal. BTW, do you also warble and bray when you sing all that so called traditional crap which is usually about people suffering because they are serfs or something like that? |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Once Famous Date: 22 Oct 04 - 11:58 AM steve-o, I agree with you about those artists that you mentioned. In fact, I hold Lyle Lovett as today's highest ambassador as country music as art. Next is Marty Stuart. But what is on today's radio as country music overall is pop music with a cowboy hat. However, there are glimmers of hope periodically. Hank Wiiliams III for example. Some of today's artists have songs recorded for the radio, but in performance, they will also show you how tradtional they can be. |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Dead Horse Date: 22 Oct 04 - 12:49 PM Has anybody done a study of the effects of cajun music on suicide? It would, of course, assume that they could understand the lyrics, which are in non-standard french. Very few folks leaping from tall buildings (they aint got any) Very few shootings (wouldnt waste the bullets on somethin' they couldnt eat) No hangings (ever tried hangin' yooself from Spanish Moss?) No overdosing on pills (effects of pills cancelled out by gittin' up & fast two-steppin') Mebbe deliberately runnin' your pirogue into a cypress stump........... |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: frogprince Date: 22 Oct 04 - 06:12 PM I thought a pirogue was a potatoe dumpling... |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Big Al Whittle Date: 22 Oct 04 - 07:54 PM I am starting a support group for people who have been country musically abused. my names and Alan, and it started with me several years ago. it was a normal sort of day, I slipped out after dinner for a small sherry, and I was returning around two o'clock the next morning. by chance when I returned home, a record that I knew well was playing on the radio - She's Mine, by George Jones. Now up to then I was feeling fine, but suddenly came the lines....'since her Mommy left this world, She's been Daddy's little girl, and as far as my hearts concerned she's mi - ine!' As you can imagine the first onset of nausea was devastating and the stains are still in the living room carpet. Luckily with counselling I was able eventually to return to normal life. Wink Martindale's Deck of Cards and I think we would be telling a different story. One day if I avoid areas of temptation like the Mike Harding Show I hope to be completely rehabilitated. If someone tells you'd look good in cowboy hat, just say no. |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Dead Horse Date: 23 Oct 04 - 06:57 AM Amen, brother. Anybody else care to testify and purge that demon from your soul? Just send $50 to The Equine Mortis Home For Troubled Minds, and ye shall receive redemption! |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Dave Hanson Date: 23 Oct 04 - 08:59 AM Yo Martin Gibson, we don't sing about serfs anymore it's all dead sailors and dead miners now. well except for the drinking and shagging songs. oh and sea shantys and Child ballads and going to war and transportation, and don't forget Virginia in the good old U S of A was once one of our penal colonies. eric |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: Big Al Whittle Date: 23 Oct 04 - 10:39 AM so serfs are off? |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 23 Oct 04 - 10:54 AM "Lemmings don't run to the sea, either." It's just coincidence. Lemmings generally move downhill, due to population expansion. The sea generally fills up all the lowest bits of the land. I think we need a new thread "The effect of suicide on country music" |
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Subject: RE: The effect of country music on suicide From: pdq Date: 23 Oct 04 - 02:08 PM ...from an Old English beach party movie... "SERF'S UP!" |
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