Back injury / glucosamine sulphate

Subject: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: John J at home
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 04:31 AM

Sorry but this is non-musical.

As one or two of my Mudcat friends already know, I have a problem with running (I like doing it).

This has caused a lower back injury resulting in sciatica. I'm due a course of treatment at the local physiotherapy dept, but as this is a recurring problem I really need some impartial and informed advice.

Where better to ask for advice than the Mudcat.

This episode is far more painful and longer lasting than any previous ones. I exercise gently, following recognised physio-type exercises. I rest a lot although I'm not too good at that, the pain makes me rest.

I take Ibruprofen and I have just started taking glucosamine sulphate to help the injury repair.

There is a very limited amount of non-commercial (and therefore quite biased) information available on the web regarding the use and benefits of this supplement.

Is anybody out there in Mudcatland able to advise? Any help or advice on back problems would be more than welcome.

Thanks loads,

John

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: GUEST,john from Hull
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 04:52 AM

Hi John, i take Glucosamine Sulphate for knee problems (I have arthritis in my knees) i started taking it last winter and it made a big difference, the pain is still there but not as severe, I don't need to take as much Nurufen as I used to.I get my Glucosamine Sulphate from Superdrug, have a look if there is a branch near you (it is a lot cheaper than the local pharmacit).john

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: nutty
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 07:04 AM

Unfortunately Glucosamine Sulphate didn't work for me ....I felt no benefit at all but a daily Cod liver Oil tablet does keep these old bones (rheumatoid arthritis) moving.
I also have a back problem (degeneration of the spine) and find aqaua-fit (exercising in deep water) gives a tremendous amount of relief, without putting any pressure on my back ....... there are sessions at most swimmimg pools/leisure centres.
Also regular swimming can be of great benefit.

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: John J
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 09:07 AM

Thanks John, I'll try Superdrug. Are you aware of the specific benefits that you get from glucosamine sulphate? ie what it actually does.

Nutty: I take cod liver oil also, and have done for some years. Your back problems sound similar to the description my doctor gave me for my back. I do a bit of swimming, but I find I can't do too much because of the pain. I managed 3.5 lengths last week; I would normally swim 30-409 lengths.

I wonder if this will ever get better.

Thanks,

John

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: kendall
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 09:20 AM

G.S. has made a big difference in my life. Went from constant joint pain to mild discomfort.

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 09:55 AM

Glucosamine sulphate for arthritis is helpful only for osteoarthritis. Rheumatoid arthritis, although it has a similar name, is another thing entirely.

I have some osteoarthritis problems with my hips, and GS has been a real help.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Gypsy
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 11:41 AM

Glucosamine rebuilds cartelidge. We often recommend it in the chiropractic office i work in. However, i don't think it will be particularly efficacious for sciatica...that is a different problem. I would try chiropractic, and excercise for that. "How to treat your own Back" by Robin MacKenzie has specific excercises for sciatica. Also, look at your shoes, are there lumps? Carry your wallet in your back pocket? QUIT it! especially if driving, it will tilt your pelvis and mess up that sciatic nerve.

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Morticia
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 12:02 PM

John, I have a degenerative back condition( facet joint syndrome) and did try Glucosamine.......didn't find it helped all that much. I don't know what you do for a living but beware the Office Chair.......them wee beasties , if set up badly, can do an awful lot of damage.Get a work station assessment from your company, if appropriate, don't sit for long periods of time,take gentle exercise although swimming is one you should be a little careful of if you tend to do breast stroke as that arches your back in an unnatural way ( well, it does mine, anyway).

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: GUEST,native
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 04:42 PM

I believe that coumadin is good for Arthitis,you need a doc prescriphion and his concent

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: harpgirl
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 04:48 PM

...at Will McLean Fest this weekend a lady told me she had terrible sciatica and that acupressure and other combinations of holistic medicine helped her more than all the pain medicine from allopathic physicians...

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Ian Darby
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 08:23 PM

Dear John.

Never thought I'd write a 'Dear John' letter.

I believe Picnogynol (probably spelt it wrong) is very good for repairing damaged cartilage etc, it might be worth a try.

Also, have a word with Bernard at the place where our kid gets his vitamins and supplements from.

He's got loads of info on this kind of thing, he won't steer you wrong, and you'll get a discount if you tell him we sent you.

Give me a ring if you want any more info.

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: John Hardly
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 09:05 PM

John,
A topic dear to my heart. I'm a runner too and I currently depend on Glucosamine to keep me on the road. I have torn cartilage in my knee and have to this point avoided surgery. I'm back to four mile runs after about 2 months of complete inability to run. A few thoughts from my own experience and research;

1.Glucosamine will not grow new cartilage.
2.You may find that it will honestly take a month of steadily taking it before you feel any benefits. This was my experience. As an interesting aside, I also have shoulders that are so bad I rarely was able to sleep through the night. When I play guitar for a half hour or more my shoulder pain would nearly bring tears to my eyes (great when I'm playing for someone -- they assume I'm "into" the sad ones). Anyway, the glucosamine I was taking for my knee has almost completely aleviated my shoulder pain.
3. Chondroitin(sp) as an addition is non-effective as it passes through the body too fast to be metablized. It only adds unnecessary cost to the glucosamine -- buy the glucosamine by itself.
4. Take MSM with the glucosamine -- I do it 'cause my wife tells me to and I always listen to her.
5. Speaking of my wife -- she was layed up from running with back pain similar to yours. She is a runner -- seriously! -- she has sub 39 min 10K and sub 20 min 5K times. After years of consulting numerous orthopedic surgeons and physical therapists, the best results she ever had was from deep massage and acupuncture.

Good luck. I do think it's worth a try -- it has been for me.

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: GUEST,Martin Nearing
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 09:51 PM

Glucosamine(500Mils)should be taken with(400mils)of chondroitin sulfate to work.You can buy it mixed in one capsule.It worked for my sciatica and as previously stated ,makes your cartilege grow faster than you wear them out.If you have Rheumatoid Arthritis here is my cure.1000 mils.flax seed oil...50 mils. zink...1000 mils MSM(this is the newest wonder Element and causes no harm as its natural).I also take Cal-Mag with vitamin D.Must have vitamin D in order for body to absorb the Magnesium.About 15 months ago I got arthritis in both knees so bad I couldnt sleep and 1 week after taking the above herbs and vitamins I was fine.

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: ddw
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 10:02 PM

John,

I've been using glucosamine sulfate and condroitin sulfate in combination for quite a while and find it works wonders for my arthritic hands, elbows and knees. But I also have some disk degeneration on my spine and occasionally have a round with sciatica from that. The GS/CS will lubricate and and rebuild joints, but do nothing to regenerate disks or relieve the pressure on the nerve that causes sciatica.

A very simple thing I do — which several other people have tried and all agreeded it helped — is just find a playground bar (or even the floor above as you're going down some steps) and hang like you're going to do chin-ups.

I find it stretches my back and takes the pressure off the sciatic nerve.

good luck,

david

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: John J
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 07:44 AM

Thanks for all your very informative and most interesting replies.

Gypsy: re your comments on sciatica not being reduced by taking glucosamine sulphate. I wouldn't expect glucosamine sulphate to touch sciatica, but perhaps it would help reduce the cause of the sciatica. I use the Robin McKenzie exercises, I have 'Treat you own back', a very good book.

John Hardly: Your comment are very interesting, particularly regarding massage. I went to a sports therapist recently. she said a lot of my pain was caused by my UPPER back being in spasm ('like an eleastic band'). Massage helped a bit, but at that point the injury itself was the main pain.

I'm going to go through all your comments and I'll post more specific replies later today.

Thanks once again for your replies, at least you've all given me some hope that this pain may one day subside and that running can once again be taken seriously.

Cheers,

John

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Dani
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 08:48 AM

Don't laugh, OK?

My dog, a six-year-old golden retriever, developed pain in back/hips that made it tough and painful for him to move. Vet suggested glucosamine complex before more expensive/extensive attempts at solutions. After a few weeks, it slowly improved, and now he's back to normal, and we keep him on a maintenance dose. My understanding is that this stuff was originally USED successfully in animals, and we're just catching on. I also had difficulty finding unbiased info, but my dog is pretty impartial ; )

Dani

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: JenEllen
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 03:50 PM

Yes Dani, we've been using the stuff on dogs and horses for years now. (With great benefit) I'll let you in on the secret I told John, TALK TO YOUR VET!!! We sell huge 4lb buckets of synoflex/equi-flex/whatever for horses, with the dosages modified for dogs. All of the human runners in our clinic use the stuff as well. It comes in a powdered for for use in sprinkling over horse feed, but a spoonfull mixed in OJ or chocolate milk and you can't tell. Anyhow, the buckets are a lot cheaper than anything humans can shove into a pill form, and it is the same supplements. Only advice is to NOT take MSM while taking Vitamin C supplements. The onlt real side-effect with MSM/C is that you'll be glad you are a runner when it comes time to make tracks for the bathroom....
Happy Trails,
~Jen

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: JenEllen
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 03:52 PM

Equi-Flex (for pricing)

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: GUEST,Martin Nearing
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 04:08 PM

John Hardly,I dont know where you got your information on Crondroitin,but three of the most respected MD,s in the U.S. that practise holistic medicine,namely Dr,s Whittaker,Williams and Phillips recomend you that you take crondroitin.Personally I had no success until I did .I also take Vitamin C & E with MSM and it got rid of my Arthritis.

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Arnie
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 04:22 PM

John,

I suffered for a few years from a slipped disc which stopped my running days! However, I finally decided to see a physiotherapist and she has worked wonders on my back. The problem is that scar tissue builds up around the injury and this is weak stuff that is prone to go at any time. The longer you put off seeing the physio, the more scar tissue builds up. the physio will break down the scar tissue and replace this with healthy muscle tissue that should ensure your back stays in place. By all means take the various supplements but DO see a physio asap - I'm glad I did!

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: sheila
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 04:43 PM

Pardon my ignorance - what's MSM?

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: JenEllen
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 04:58 PM

MSM is methylsulfuonylmethane. It's a sulfur supplement that promotes cellular elasticity and regeneration. Along with that, it is considered a bit of a pain reliever in that it reduces inflammation, so if your pain is caused by muscular inflammation, it can be a real bonus in helping you to get off pain medication.

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: JenEllen
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 05:00 PM

...that should be methylsulfonylmethane....see why you should just stick to "MSM"? LOL

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: John J
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 09:54 AM

Arnie: thanks for your advice re the physio....my appointment is in 3 weeks, with the chance of a taking a cancellation to make it earlier.

Jen: Has anybody told you that you're a wonderful woman? Well they should, 'cos you are! The information you have provided me with has prompted my to send out enquiries to the local horse doctor / equine type suppliers. Watch this space! I don't take a vitamin C supplement, rather I rely on a vitamin C rich diet...loads of fresh fruit & vegetables.

Cheers,

John

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Fortunato
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 10:12 AM

Gypsy said it! I am a runner and have had the condition you mention. Remove your wallet from your back pocket. Perform the (On your back) leg over to the side stretches and knees to chest stretches your doctor can recommend or PM me and I will detail them for you. Back and leg stretches are the secret. Take the Glucosomine, it can't hurt! You will be repairing other cartilege that is wearing in your knees and elsewhere even if it hasn't caused you a problem yet, age and exercise are at work. Glucosomine works for me. Cheers, Chance

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Metchosin
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 01:05 PM

For any one else who suffers from sciatica and is not injured to the point of requiring physio

The following method was recommended to me by a message therapist, to relieve pain in the sciatic nerve, while I was on a gruelling 6 day backpacking trip (you can do this in mid hike or run while fully geared up):

Locate the sciatic nerve in your buttock (you will know the exact spot, because when you apply pressure to it with your fingertips, the localized point will be incredibly painful) Find a protruding sharp stick or pointed rock at the appropriate height, and lean against it with all your weight, allowing it to poke you right at the nerve point in your backside. (This really hurts at first, but keep leaning and the pain will gradually subside) and....Voila! a quick fix!

Also before starting out and after your run, do the following stretch (hard to describe but I'll try)

Sit on the floor with your one leg crooked in front of you, with the heel of your foot tucked in towards your crotch and the other leg crooked behind you. Supporting your upper body with your hands and your trunk aligned over your thigh and crooked knee, lean forward and lower your upper body towards the floor and hold the stretch. Repeat with the other leg crooked in front. If you are doing this correctly, you should feel this in the area of the buttock around the sciatic nerve.

Ditto re Jon Hardly's info regarding glucosamine sulphate.

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: 53
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 10:48 PM

What are the side effects?

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 11:02 PM

I'm not sure why a thread was also started in the Annexe but this was Pip's post there:

---

Pip Freeman

Posted - 3/11/2002 8:54:57 PM

Glucosamide Sulphate is proving very effective in the treatment of arthritic conditions. It helps to improve the condition of the stuctures aound the joint, ie ligaments and tendons, and helps in the prodution of synovial fluid, (naturally produced joint lubricant) It is to be preferred to the anti-inflammatory drugs, as it has no known side-effets.

John, has your friend seen a doctor other than his GP to find a reason for his back pain, any X-rays? GPs do tend to dismiss arthritis with the "you must learn to live with it" comment. That always makes me cross; you may not be able to reverse actual structural damage to arthritic joints, but there are ways of improving the conditon of the joint and structures round it, improving mobility and pain relief, management etc.

I may be a bit biased here, but a good physiotherapist can give very good advice on the managment of back problems, and good treatment too. Often a GP has a physio attached to his practice.

There is a very good book called "Treat your own back" by R.McKenzie--probably available in libraries. I do recommend it.

Pip

Edited By Pip Freeman - 3/11/2002 9:16:15 PM

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 02 - 11:21 PM

I started athread at The Annexe about this, I am too drunk to attemt a link but there was some good ansers especially froim Pip Freeman (Johns Mum) she is a phisiopherapist.I will make a link tomorow, It is 4Am in the morning here.john

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: John J
Date: 15 Mar 02 - 05:00 AM

Jon, and everybody else who has taken the time to contribute, thanks. The help and advice I've received has been invaluable. I've also had very good information from the Annexe, thanks to John in Hull, and especially Pip.

Thanks again,

John

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: John J
Date: 15 Mar 02 - 05:07 AM

And thanks again to Jen for the equine / canine therapy advice. I'm a little concerned that I've stared going around sniffing dogs' bums and also developing a taste for hay, but what the hell! Metchosin: thanks for that tip. I also walk quite a lot, having a heavy pack and being stranded in the middle of nowhere is a worry. That tip could save me. John

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: John J
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 11:56 AM

An update!

I've been using Glucosamine Sulphate along with all the help and advice I've received. I'm also using an infra red heat source for 2 x 15min sessions a day (for the last 4 days). I've JUST had the best night sleeps for two months!

I'll keep you updated.

Thanks all.

Woof!

John

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 12:23 PM

On Radio 4 yesterday GS was mentioned by someone in a phone in about Hip Replacements. The surgeon seemed quite positive about it, saying that taking GS wouldn't do any harm and seemed to help some people. He said it was expensive and that it seemed to work better in combination with something else (not sure what it was)- but if I can get the darn speakers here working I will trawl through the program again to see if I can make it out

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 12:55 PM

OK the program should be available to listen to with real player at this link until next weeks program overwrites it R4 Checkup
Drag the time index to start at 14.22 (ends around 16.00) unless you want the low down on joint replacement. Glucosamine and Condroyatin (not sure of the spelling) are what the surgeon says are used together.

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 01:06 PM

Glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate

WOOF ! has a whole different meaning in some places JOHN J
ROFLOL
I ain't gonna explain it :)

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: John J
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 01:26 PM

Well you know what we Lancastrians say about those from Cheshire!! :-)

Thanks for the references Roger, I'll go and have a look-see.

Cheers,

John

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 05:50 PM

When I had sciatica I went to the chiropractor as the quack could only quack platitudes but give her her due she spent 30 minutes asking the questions and 30 mins manipulating. So we established that doing a somersault from a motorbike buried in a car's back wing and landing on my back in my youth was the genesis of the misplaced disk pinching the nerve that put the pain elsewhere.
Obvious once you are forced to survey the history.
I was lucky with the motorbike/car and lucky with her, she spent about 5 sessions and I never got sciatica since (14 years now).
As an engineer I was more interested in her technique and there is no doubt she shifted a vertabra.
If the physio is not moving the offending disk then the nerve will stay trapped. Chiropractors don't come cheap & mine was recommended by a trusted friend but it did the trick.
I know you don't want to hear this but my hip problems (more recent) changed for the better when I gave-up badminton and upped my ceilidh dancing. It is all about loading and stress. Running may not stress the joints as much as badminton but I bet it has a higher accumulated loading in the balls & sockets.

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: jup
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 10:33 PM

John J, Like a lot of runners I see you are likely to have very tight leg and back muscles. Try a good yoga teacher,someone who can work slowly to stretch your hamstrings,calves,quads,psoas,buttocks,etc. work with your phisio to reduce the inflamation,try not to over do things so that you keep injuring yourself. Medication is fine but remember that pain is the bodys way of reminding you not to keep hurting yourself. It might be necessary to try a few yoga classes to find one that is right for you.Strong and fast is not for you until everything is repaired. GOOD LUCK, Jup.

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: 53
Date: 22 Mar 02 - 10:39 PM

I have a Lipoma in the right side of my lower back. It is starting to give me quite a bit of pain. I take so much other medicine that I'm afraid to try this. Hopefully my doctor will fix the problem on next weeks's visit.

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Hawker
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 07:22 AM

My husband has an arthritic back and I have knee and hip problems, we invested VERY sceptically in a bioflow magnet which you wear on your wrist, like a wristwatch, with the magnet over the pulse. There is information on the web about the firm, type ecoflow into your search engine, we tried them because they offered your money back if they did not work. I have been wearing mine since September, I cannot say either of us are cured, and will not boast miraculous healing properties, but I can now run up stairs, I used to crawl, and I have not heard Kevin groan with his back in months, it certainly eases the pain substantially, involves no drug taking and no, I don't want my money back!

Hope this helps, pain is a horrible bedfellow!
Cheers, Lucy.

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Hawker
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 01:01 PM

For those of you who are interested in Bioflow / Ecoflow, have attempted a clicky below - and for preople like Dani, they do a range of pet collars and horse leg wraps - the testimonials are good, but I have no personal experience myself. Hope this is of use to someone!
click here

Cheers, Lucy

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 03:44 PM

Likely this has been suggested several times already, but I can only read so many posts...dinna have the time for all.

In any case, chiropractic has helped with a miriad of troubles I have suffered, to include low back pain that resulted in spasms so fierce, I can only relate them to birth pains. It has also helped me with my overall ability to concentrate, and energy. So far, it has not cured my wrinkles yet. I'll let you know.

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Mar 02 - 03:58 PM

HAWKER>>>>>Lucy, I don't know about that magnetism thing. Paw, with the help of the Cletus, Buford, and the Reg Boys, gave it a try and I gotta' tell you the result was, well, less than satisfactory for his problem, but then again, maybe it did work. Let me tell you about it.................

Paw's flattulence when combined with his passion for 'shine and hot wings used to be a big problem for him whenever his roids would flare up....so to speak...and it got to the point that little rubber donut pillows and Preparation H just weren't doing the job anymore. Clete's 6th wife was into all the weird and wacky cures so Cletus was always coming to Paw with his suggestions that he'd heard from her. When Cletus told Paw about acupuncture, he disappeared for about two weeks and I'll be damned if anyone could find him.

The Reg Boys too had their share of wacky cures for everything from the Great White North of Canada, but most of them involved bear grease and other vile and foamy liquids. Then it happened. The whole lot of them were watching my TV down in the den one night and had been subjected to at least nine hours of infomercials while they slugged down Iron City. I had learned from experience to unplug the phone and hide my credit cards on these nights which only took place when Karen was gone. I'm still paying for that quonset hut in the Aleutian Islands and I have the complete collection of Pan Flute Favorites so I have learned, albeit slowly. I think the one that finally got me was the "Great Michigan Getaway Weekend" which they bought and gave to Karen and I for an anniversary present. It was a month before I found out that they had billed it to my Visa and when we went for "rest and relaxation" in beautiful Michigan, it turned out to be clapped out motel run by a Pakistani in downtown Flint, just across from a closed GM factory.

I guess it was about 5:30 AM when Cletus woke me up and said they had the cure for Paw's hemorrhoids. This was more than I wanted or needed to know at 5:30 so after verifying that it wouldn't cost me anything, I said have at it and went back to sleep. When I woke up about 7 I had one of those vague feelings of dread. You know what I mean? Nothing was wrong that I could think of and yet I just felt the world was going to come after me that day. It turned out to be Old Man Rafferty instead....but I'll come to that.

The "boys" arrived back at my place about noon having already left when I woke at 7. They were lugging some huge electric motors into my garage and looking about for tools when I walked in and asked what the hell was going on. Cletus then launched into their "cure" and the reasoning behind it. It seems they had watched an infomercial about the "healing power of magnetism" and saw immediately that this was the way to fix Paw's 'roids. Slowly it all began to come together for me and I began to wonder how in the hell these guys could even remember how to breathe!

In any case, they'd picked up the motors from out back of Bernie's Electrical Supply and were now going to remove the large magnets inside. They idea was to cut a slit in Paw's rubber donut, insert the magnets, and then duct tape the thing back together. I noticed that Buford had an old jockstrap (with cup) that they evidently were going to use to strap the magnets to Paw's ass, again using liberal amounts of duct tape. Listening to Cletus explain all of this and their newfound theory made me begin to question my own existence, as though I really didn't exist in the world I had come to know, but was simply a bit player in a leftover Rod Serling story.

Things started going downhill pretty quickly as the magnets were removed and now were flying across my garage, affixing themselves to various steel things....like my van, my lawnmower, my golf clubs, and a little steel reinforced concrete rabbit that someone had once given us as a joke. I figured that I was going to be better off if they'd finish up somewhere else so I suggested they take all the stuff and head for the pleasant little roadside picnic area on the edge of the village where they could finish rigging Paw up and with any luck, I'd never know anything more about it. After removing the magnets, scratching the hell out of my van, breaking off the head of a 5 iron and the left ear of the rabbit, they left. The picnic area was only about a half mile off, just a bit down Rt.664 and I told them to let me know how it all worked out.

Curiosity is a terrible thing sometimes and about an hour later I grabbed my Weimaraner and his leash and set out as though I were just walking the dog. As I turned on 664 I saw the Boys all walking towards me from the little picnic grove. Paw's ass seemed to be a bit large and he was walking funny, but from a distance I could tell they must have done a good job circling his ass in magnets because outside of a slight limp and a big bulge at the rear of his bibs, Paw looked pretty normal. Then it happened. Trailing the others, Paw walked past Old Man Rafferty's mailbox, a new heavy duty steel one to foil the kids with cars and bats. He first slowed, stopped, then flew backwards and before you could say "dumbfuck" he was hanging from his ass on the mailbox. Ol' Man Rafferty was washing his aging Electra deuce and a quarter and looked up to see what was happening. By that time, Cletus, Buford, and the Reg Boys all were tugging on either Paw or Rafferty's mailbox and though they got him off the mailbox was smashed in and the pole was a goner.

Well I tell you, Rafferty came flying down the drive, gravel spitting up from his shoes, and swearing a blue streak. Paw was laying about 10 foot up the drive where he'd landed after the force of being ripped from the mailbox sent him sailing through the air. Rafferty bent over him and started yelling in his face and Paw was trying to stand up but being weighed down by the Magnetic Ass-Healing Ring. I got up there and tried to get Rafferty to calm down some as the others stood around looking bewildered. Rafferty started blaming me for allowing such "dumbass shitkickers" to stay here and how I should let them rot somewhere else. Before he could say another word, things continued to deteriorate. Paw had gotten to his feet about 15 feet from the Buick and there was a loud clanging thump as one of the hubcaps flew off and affixed itself to Paw's rump. Rafferty grabbed the hubcap and started pulling for all he was worth swinging Paw round and round in a circle. The hubcap folded and broke loose and Paw landed by the side of the road while Rafferty began to rage about his rump-sprung hubcap and twisted mailbox. I got out my checkbook and with a stern look to Cletus asked how much this would cost to keep from calling the police. The sight of my checkbook calmed Rafferty down and my Weimaraner had gone over to the side of the road and was licking Paw's face. Rafferty calculated a sum which I figured was enough to buy a new set of tires and an exhaust system for the Buick and build a brick mailbox, while forcing me nearer to bankruptcy.

Cletus and the rest were circled around me as I handed Rafferty the check and when I turned to go, I saw Paw had gotten to his feet again and was bent over stroking Jaeger's head. The dog has always had a soft spot for Paw and when I whistled for him he reluctantly came back up the drive. Bending over to pick up his leash, I heard Cletus say, "Aw Sheeitt!" Right then I couldn't imagine how things could get worse, but I looked up just in time to see Paw lifted from his feet and his ass attach to the exhaust stack of a passing Peterbilt. I watched as the truck roared off, Paw flailing around and in a blind spot where the driver couldn't see him, and the dumbass Reg boys waving "bye-bye" as the Pete rounded a curve down by the Hopewell place.

We found Paw at the truckstop at Rt.37 and I-70 where the driver had stopped for fuel. When we arrived, the Magnetic Ass-Healing Ring was nowhere to be seen and Paw was sitting on a bag of ice trying to cool the burns from riding 27 miles on an exhaust stack. But I tell you what.....Perhaps it was the scar tissue from the burns that did it, but Paw hasn't had trouble with 'roids since then. Maybe there is something to the power of magnetism.....................

Spaw

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: GUEST,FORTUNATO RISING
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 08:17 AM

Ah, the Magnetic Ass-healing Ring. Imagine the commercial. Johnny Cash singing 'Ring of Fire'. A computer graphics 'Descent Into The Rectum'.

Is it just that I want the last word? Or is it that a noble post as that above should not be left to fester on it's own? Dare I to eat a peach? Or am I the only 'catter who dares to go recto y recto with the arch sphincterist. Or have I suddenly become fascinated by evacuation?

But one question rises, steaming, out of the cesspool...oh, shit, I forgot what it was...

Oh, yes, did you hear the one about the supercilious folkie who fell in a fat of preparation H and fucking disappeared?

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: GUEST,FORTUNATO RISING
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 08:19 AM

that's vat, not fat...

how embarrasing.

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Hawker
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 01:01 PM

Spaw!
LOL........can't say the magnets did anything for my piles - magnets are obviously in the wrong place!
Lucy

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Bearheart
Date: 24 Mar 02 - 04:59 PM

John,

Glad to hear that things are better. I agree with most of the recommendations here, all of them have helped various people I've known.

As a massage therapist I have worked with several modalities-- I think the Sciatic cure you were told about is probably a Trigger Point in the piriformis muscle, which muscle can cause constriction of the sciatic nerve and hence the pain.. Trigger point work can be very effective, but I suggest seeing a rolfer or structural therapist, who can anayze your posture as part of the therapy to see where else you are tight and work the appropriate tissues. As somebody said it's not always the area of pain that is the problem .Treating the whole body will often fix it for good as long as you don't do yourself an injury. It is very likely that your problem stems from an injury earlier in life that has affected your posture in general, especially when you are running.

As to glucosamine-- if you are a Blood Type O (or even B) you may be having difficulty with wheat, there is a lectin in wheat that causes arthritic like conditions in many people with Blood Type O, and glucosamine blocks the activity of that lectin. I know that when I began having severe joint pain it went away spontaneously two weeks after I went on the Blood Type diet. (As an O I stopped doing wheat, but also dairy, which is another trigger for arthritis and other autoimmune problems for some Os). I had been having continuos pain for about 4 months previos to trying the diet. If you want to try t, the best book is the newest one out called Live Right for Your Type. It includes all the scientific studies they've done, and lots of case histories. It's cheaper than the supplements and helped me improve a lot of other health problems I was having. I have way more energy now too.

Good luck!

Bekki

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: John J
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 01:09 PM

Thanks for even more help & advice; I'm at the physiotherapist's Tuesday next week. I am now armed with a lot of information and I just hope the physio doesn't think I'm know-all!

I'm going to quiz the physio on any scar tissue I may have to see if that can be broken down, but in the meantime I'm stretching lots and using plenty of heat (Infra -red).

I'll report back.

John

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: Bearheart
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 02:27 PM

John, depending on the scar tissue, often a massage therapist who specializes in myofascial work (rolfers and structural therapists do) can restore some or a good deal of elasticity to those tissues. Most of my experience has been working on ankle injuries, but in several cases I have been able to reduce pain and increase range of motion significantly. The last fellow I worked on had been suffering from multiple soft tissue injuries to his left ankle for the previous 7 years, , had a chronic limp that was affecting his hips due to compensatory postural changes. One hour of structural work reduced his chronic swelling to about half, and he was able to walk normally for the first time in seven years. After the second hour of work he informed me that he had decided to take on another job (he is a chef and is on his feet constantly) because he wasn't in pain any more. (Needless to say I discouraged him! but so far he seems to be holding on to gains made, though he did let the second job go for other reasons.)

Subject: RE: Back injury / glucosamine sulphate
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 02 - 11:57 PM

lose weight, and exercise, Exercise, EXERCISE!