BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!

Subject: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 05:44 PM

I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdgnieg.   

The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid!   Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas thought slpeling was ipmorantt!

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 05:47 PM

I ageree!

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Wesley S
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 05:50 PM

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=71425&messages=19

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: C-flat
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 05:53 PM

Now all that's required is to add9 to every other word!
Sort of like talking jazz?

C-flat.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: GUEST,reggie miles
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 05:55 PM

Wow! I CAN see 'em. It took a bit, but I can see 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 05:57 PM

sorry, it still reads like crap.

Because it is.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 05:58 PM

Oh good cripse... how often is this gonna get posted here at mudcat???

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: LilyFestre
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 06:01 PM

I could read it just fine...musta been a bitch to type though.....

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 06:05 PM

no one types that, they copy & paste it......I'm just surprised it hasn't appeared in emails already.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Teresa
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 06:05 PM

I can't read that with the speech synthesizer at all, a'tall. [sigh] I guess I'll have to spell it out. I can read jOhn's posts, though. Not sure why ... I guess I just got used to his written language.

Or I'll get out the braille display. :(

T

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Teresa
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 06:10 PM

Ah yes ... that works with Braille ... I sometimes get wrong words as a result of mentally turning the character order around. It works for tactile/visual reading, but definitely *not* for speech. :D

T

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 06:19 PM

"I'm just surprised it hasn't appeared in emails already."

It has been... for almost a year!

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 06:35 PM

I couldn't read it, so I decided to try translating it instead. First I tried to get it translated by bab;lfosh.com but THAT wouldn;t open, and I had to go to ets.freetranslation.com.

Englitch to Spanish gave me this:

Yo taht de blveiee de cdnuolt yo waht de uesdnatnrd de aulaclty de cluod yo era rdgnieg.

¡El pweor de phaonmneal del mnid de hmuan! Aoccdrnig a un rscheearch en Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, lo deosn' mttaer T en el oredr de waht el ltteers en un wrod es, el tihng de iprmoatnt de olny es taht el ltteer de frist y lsat está en el pclae de rghit. El rset puede ser un mses de taotl y usted puede raed de sitll wouthit un porbelm. Tihs deos no es bcuseae el mnid de huamn lteter de ervey de raed por istlef, pero por el wrod como un wlohe. ¡Amzanig qué? yaeh y yo awlyas pensó slpeling era ipmorantt!

And back again from Spanglitch should bring us to the King's English:

I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdgnieg.   

The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid!   Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas thought slpeling was ipmorantt!

Hm...........

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 06:35 PM

MG

you say your sorry, if you are sorry why bother reading and posting in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: LilyFestre
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 06:38 PM

Bill,

   Perhaps it was cut and pasted...but SOMEONE at SOMETIME did type it....could have been one of those typing exercises...who knows? Anyway...........

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 06:41 PM

heleeo= peoloe saynig they canbt raed it, i read it fine.
dislexia rools!

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 06:47 PM

Raeds fnie to me jOhn

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Nerd
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 07:45 PM

Wlfgang debunked it nicely on another thread, pointing out that the above passage was made deliberately easy to read.

If you take this passage:

it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr

you can see it. "deosn't", "matter" and "order" have only one letter out of place, and the phrase "it doesn't matter" is so common it helps you figure it out.

"it d'stnoe mtetar in waht oedrr" is harder to see.

How about:

The suceenqe inst' pluairatclry scianfiingt

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 07:48 PM

the seqeunce isent pariculary significant.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 07:50 PM

ps, i figured that out in a matter of seconds, did not even have to think about it.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: GUEST,Jock McTaggart
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 07:56 PM

John frae Hull wull naiver be vindicated. The man's a witless knave wha cannae hold his drink, and mair than that cannae hold his tongue. Ah dinna ken whit shuid be done wi' John, but Ah'm thinkin' a wee dunk in the river wuid sairve tae sober the lad up. Then strip off awe his tatty rags and tar him doon frae haid tae foot wi' hot pitch an' roll him in feathers till he looks like a great flappin' chicken. Then drive him oot o' town tied tae the tail of an ass. Ye'd hae ane ass in front and t'other behind! Whit a sight to delight the guid people of Hull, a city whit has suffaired maer frae John these past few decades than Ah wuid care tae say.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Joybell
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 08:04 PM

Now we just need Jock to add subtitles to those Scotish TV dramas. Better still invite him into our homes to write out the dialogue for us. Joy

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Nerd
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 08:11 PM

"figuring it out in a matter of seconds" is exactly the point. It isn't brain surgery, so it's not going to take hours. But if it takes you SECONDS then it isn't as easy as just reading it. AND you already knew what it had to mean.    How about:



Ctamponoerry ldeengs carete slef fluilfnilg posscrees weebrhy the roumr srietos are smemeotis atecd

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 09:21 PM

_______ary legends create self fulfilling processes whereby the rumor _________ are __________ acted.      ???????????

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 09:30 PM

stories

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 09:32 PM

Guest

Sorry for what? Calling you a cowardly genitalia?

I'll read and post to where I want to, moron Guest.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 09:34 PM

sometimes

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 09:40 PM

Cotemporary ????? doesn't make sense.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 09:42 PM

Contempary...I can't spell.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 09:44 PM

Contemporary...still can't spell.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 09:51 PM

Have you ever considered moving from Kentucky?

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 09:58 PM

WYSIWYG,

The result you got is because those translation engines ignore 'special words' they have not been programmed to recognise. These can be people's names, place names, or as in this case misspellings.

They are just a big switch table with equivalents for all the languages - they can't handle any 'slang' that that have not been designed to cope with.

They will only have a decent chance of translation with words that are 'correctly spelt' according to their various language dictionaries - they may be set up to automatically cope with both British & US spelling, which spelling they give back on a translation back to English will depend on what they have been coded to do.

Try misspelling the foreign language words, then seeing what sort of mess you get back in English!

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 10:17 PM

You will see that some words got picked up and correctly translated FROM English into the correct forms in the other language - of course these got translated correctly BACK. It seems that the process 'picked up' a few misspellings - this could be due to grammatical positioning tricks these engines may entail, or some 'spelling corrections' may be embedded - I am not an expert on the internals of these engines.

I have always wondered if foreign languages deal with misspellings in the same way that English does - or if correct spelling is more rigidly enforced. Only Foreign Language speakers - probably natives who either learned English as a second language or learned both together as genuine multi-linguals could really comment, I suppose, or else Academics.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Nerd
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 10:22 PM

Mary in KY demonstrated my point ably. It can be done, obviously. It is NOT almost as easy as reading the words

"Contemporary Legends create self fulfilling processes whereby the rumor stories are sometimes acted..."

which is a real, randomly selected passage from a book on my desk, describing a phenomenon folklorists call "ostention" and others might call "copycat behavior": when people act out stories they have heard, thus fulfilling the "warning" of the stories themselves.

If you don't know what you're looking for, and the words are REALLY scrambled, not just with one letter out of place, it will take a while to read a passage, even if the first and last letters are kept in place. It took Mary in KY twenty minutes to decipher Jeff Victor's sentence above. It would take her probably three seconds to read the unscrambled passage.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Nerd
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 10:30 PM

Correction: it took her twenty minutes to decipher it from the time she already had figured out

_______ary legends create self fulfilling processes whereby the rumor _________ are __________ acted.

There's no way for me to tell when she first started.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 11:21 PM

Si vous souhaitez traduire de l'anglais en Français, évitez alors ce programme ridiculuous. Cela fonctionne à peine. Que se produit ? Vous essayez de dire quelque chose aussi simplement que possible et qu'obtenez-vous ? Baragouin ! Idéotie ! Mots qui ne se comprennent pas ! I don't savent pourquoi pensée égale de I de faire ceci. Quelle perte de temps !

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 11:23 PM

well done sir jOhn on being dicvinated

its one of the glories of the english public school system - I am reliably informed

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 11:24 PM

FT, the thing is, look how many it DID translate! :~)

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 03:15 AM

Bat on Sir jOhn,

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: polaitaly
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 06:15 AM

Foolestroupe, in my opinion Italian has spelling rules more simple than English : there are a little rules, and rigid. There are few exeption.
Cmocuqnue, li gocitetho dlelo sacbmio id valoci non smbrea farunzione ni Ilaitano... I don't know. I know what I have wtrote, so obviously I understand ; I need someone who speak the language, to see if the thing work in Italian too.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: The Beast of Farlington
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 06:38 AM

Comunque, il....dello scambio di vocali no sembra funzionare in Italiano

You are right about the rules. I found this pretty easy to work out, apart from the missing word (which detail probably completely negates my argument) and I am not a native italian speaker.

I think Italian is likely to be even easier to read than English in this respect.

j0hn from Hull rules

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 06:40 AM

Good God! The Beast appears to have something approaching a brain!

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: polaitaly
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 06:56 AM

Mia cara Bestia, you appear to speak very good Italian ! The missing word was "giochetto".

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 07:11 AM

Good afternoon and well done jOhn, when is the film due for release?

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: GUEST,Cretinous Yahoo
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 07:38 AM

An interesting piece of work, but I still prefer proper spelling and grammar. If we all followed our own rules we would still be back in the caves saying "UGH" at each other. A common mistake we see here, the difference AMONG to, too and two. They are not interchangable.
Your lack of education or your laziness shouldn't be my problem.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 07:47 AM

Did you realise than the anagram of vindicated is Ted Da Vinci? There is something very serious going on here. Perhaps jOhn writes in the Da Vinci code , which has something to do with Leonardo's brother, Super Ted...

Doodododo Dooodododo (Twilight Zone Music)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: GUEST,Raggytah
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 07:48 AM

jOhn of Hull ........ Vindicated ! .......... he can't even spell it !

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: kendall
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 08:07 AM

John doesn't fool me, he can spell but he has more fun "having us on". Someday I hope to meet him.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: The Beast of Farlington
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 08:27 AM

Ti ringrazio bene, Polaitaly. Parlo l'italiano abbastanza bene perche lo studiavo tanti anni fa e abitavo due volte in Italia - una volta a Torina e l'altra a Voghera vicino a Pavia.

Quello Ted e proprio uno schemo. Sa solo suonare alla chitarra flamenca e nient'altro. Il suo cervello si trova nelle pantaloni. Non si capisce un tubo!

Saluti

La Bestia di Farlington

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: The Beast of Farlington
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 08:28 AM

Kendall....I have had the honour of meeting j0hn from Hull.

He is for real

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 08:37 AM

And now in Transylvanianish Beast please.

jOhn is definitely for real and he wears a hat he received as a gift from his local Synagogue.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 08:42 AM

Dave the Gnome has rumbled us chaps...... It's time to tell the truth, jOhn from hull AND super ted, are indeed the SAME woman from Beverley. There... the cats out of the bag at last.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 08:46 AM

I have met jOhn and he is pretty surreal...

:D

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: The Beast of Farlington
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 08:48 AM

Ah Super Ted, but I have seen you and jOhn in the same room at the same time....

And sttaw legend I shall not translate my piece of Italian prose except to say that it contains a thinly veiled reference to Far Ted but he shall have to work out for himself whether it is complimentary or not.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 08:49 AM

It says I am a well trousered prat who plays flamenco and doesn't like cod.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: The Beast of Farlington
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 08:52 AM

Words to that effect, Ted!

Actually, it should be "Non capisce un tubo" not "Non si capisce un tubo" - THAT would mean that the tubo wouldn't capisce itself when, in fact, it refers to you.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Once Famous
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 10:48 AM

This is John from Hull.

This thread is John from Hull on drugs.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 01:10 PM

Good afternoon Martin.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 01:12 PM

Do us a favour and stick a hotdog where the sun don't shine....oh you already have.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 01:25 PM

JhOn frmo Uhll is a fisrt clsas bloek. I met him too and can truly say it was an experience. My smelling is not always godo. Keep it up Sir John. Best wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Dead Horse
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 02:54 PM

Dont none of ya know how ta use a speeling chocker?
I did a spooling chock on El Gruckos ferst pist and thus is wot I git:-

I condole belvedere tart I cloud audacity dues dastard waft I was droning.   

The paranormal pear of the human maid!   Occurring to a breech at Ambridge diversity, it doesn't mutter in wrath order the otters in a wood are, the only prompting ting is tact the frets and slat otter be in the grit plate. The reset can be a tarot miss and you can sill rated it outhunt a problem. A tip is backseat the human maid demos not rated eve litter by isle, but the wood as a woe. Amazing huh? Yacht and I allays thought sapling was important!

Now all is kleer, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Cluin
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 03:01 PM

Shite, rubbish, stuff and nonsense.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Once Famous
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 04:57 PM

Guest, spoken like a true lard ass.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 05:35 PM

"Lard ass". I like that expression! Here's another good one: "duck arse"

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 08:49 PM

From the thread list right now

BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
BS: A new level of terror

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 08:52 PM

Yes, it is terrifying isn't it? I tremble at the thought of jOhn from Hull being vindicated.

Subject: RE: BS: jOhn of Hull vindicated at last!
From: wigan
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 09:01 AM

after jock mctaggarts epistle, i suddenly realise that ther's nowt wrong wi johns spelling.
waht is more he is easy to understand afetr about 6 pints!!