BS: Palestinian 'facts'

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: Peace
Date: 20 May 08 - 12:33 PM

From the Middle East Times


'Hezbollah's network confirms terror goals
By WALID PHARES Published: May 20, 2008
Hezbollah areas in red

A detailed map released by a French Web site citing Lebanese sources shows the main network of communications established by Hezbollah throughout Lebanon. It details the organization's closed circuit telephone system, a network independent from the one operated by the government.

This parallel network was at the heart of the recent flare-up between Prime Minister Fouad Siniora's cabinet and Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah.


The latter accused the government of attempting to seize the network while the Lebanese government stating that no communication network could operate outside the law. Hezbollah's response was that its status as a "resistance" organization justified it running its own "closed communications system." In other words, to behave as a state within the state.


Under the country's constitution the Lebanese government had the right to demand that Hezbollah shuts down its illegal operation. But no sooner was the ministerial decision made public that Hezbollah launched a blitz campaign on the Lebanese government.


Even though the government was not in a position to dismantle Hezbollah's network or prepared for a militarily confrontation, Hezbollah Secretary General Hassan Nasrallah held a press conference, declared war against the government and gave a signal to the coup.


Why would Hezbollah wage such a risky war for a telecommunication system? Is it because of the income generated by the network to sell international phone calls? Less likely. The Iranian foreign aid to the group was upgraded from $300 million to a little less than $1billion a few months ago.


Obviously more revenue is always welcomed by the leaders of the so-called "resistance," but more important is the big picture revealed by the Hezbollah phone map.


Close analysis of the map tells us the following:


The "Red Lines" stretch from southern Beirut along the coast to the Hezbollah exclusive zones in the south. It covers a complex network of bases in the area, cuts through the Jezzine district and connects with the Bekaa Valley all the way up to northern Lebanon. The most important features and dimensions of the Hizbo-net are the following:


1. The net covers large parts of Greater Beirut: This can provide Hezbollah with the ability to organize its forces in Dahiye (southern suburb of Beirut) for assaults against West Beirut, East Beirut and the Druze Mountain in Aley and the Chouf. The closed circuit can mobilize thousands of fighters without interception from Lebanese or international monitoring. It explains how Hezbollah launched its blitzkrieg offensive on Sunni Beirut, the Druze Mountain and was testing Christian Beirut, without real warning to the areas under attack.


2. The coastal cable-line links the Dahiye to the inner land of the Hezb. It serves to move troops and material from the south to the north without major detection. It explains how thousands of Hezbollah forces were moved from as far as Nabatieh and Tyre to Beirut. But it also tells about the capacity of Hezbollah to use it against UNIFIL forces in the future, if needed.


3. The network between the south and the Bekaa indicates a Hezbollah strategy to close the gap to the east.


As I have indicated in many articles and interviews previously, the Lebanese-Syrian borders are all that count to Hezbollah's terror network. As long as these frontiers are open for Iran to supply weapons and logistics via Syria, the state within the state can thrive and grow.


The Lebanese government and the U.N., with European and U.S. backing, should have closed that gap three years ago, but they didn't. Let's leave the blame game to another discussion. Hezbollah was faster than anyone else.


According to this map the Iranian backed militia built an impressive network throughout east Lebanon from the southern fortresses to the closest position to the northern borders with Syria. This means that Hezbollah by now, has covered the entire Bekaa Valley, and thus has beaten the international community to the borders with Syria.


Military and intelligence analysts can understand this development very clearly. Strategically, Hezbollah is in control of these areas as shown by a map B, which I established two years ago.


4. In the mid-Bekaa, the cable route connects the center of the valley to one of the highest peaks in Mount Lebanon and thrusts into the mostly Christian districts of Byblos and Kesrouan. This shows that Hezbollah has already established an axis of penetration inside the Mount Lebanon area, at few kilometers only from the seashore.


5. Map A also shows that Hezbollah positions are connected to the Anti-Lebanon Range and thus to the Syrian hinterland. Militarily there are no Lebanese-Syrian borders to stop the flow of weapons and forces coming from Iran through Syria into Lebanon.


6. The northern tips of the Hezbollah "cable road" show clearly that its forces are deployed as far north as the eastern slopes of the Cedars Mounts. From these positions, the Iranian-backed forces can seize the highest peak south of Turkey, leap to the Akkar district and reach the northern borders with Syria.


7. More importantly, and because of the strategic bridge between Hezbollah and Iran, this communications network is a battlefield system which can be used by the Iranian Pasdaran and eventually by Syrian Special Forces in a potential mass return to Lebanon.


In summer 2007 I presented a projection-map in a briefing to the Caucus on Counter Terrorism at the U.S. House of Representatives, as well as to a number of high ranking U.S. military personnel. It showed the potential paths of a Hezbollah offensive in Lebanon.


Indeed, strategic projections show that Hezbollah can move its forces from the south toward Beirut (which was executed in May). But it also shows that combined forces of Hezbollah and Pasdaran can move on the Damascus road to Beirut and Mount Lebanon and the center of mountain as well.


Hezbollah-Pasdaran forces would move in the north on an East-West axis and jihadist elements and pro-Syrian forces can move from the borders to Tripoli.


The Hezbollah communication systems shows that when the time will come, massive reinforcements from Syria and Iran can move swiftly along axis already secured by Hezbollah across Lebanon. The invasion of West Beirut and the attacks against the Chouf and Aley districts are only the early signs of what is to come.


8. Last but not least, the Hezbollah communications network can also allow an activation of their massive rocket and missile system across Lebanon without significant interference from Western assets.


The aim of this powerful missile force seems to be against a potential "international" force tasked with the mission of bringing peace to the country. Here again Hezbollah – and Iran – have already beaten the West in the race toward dominating the Eastern Mediterranean.

--

Walid Phares is the director of the Future Terrorism Project at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies in Washington, a visiting scholar at the European Foundation for Democracy and the author of the newly released, "The Confrontation: Winning the War against Future Jihad." '

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: Peace
Date: 20 May 08 - 12:33 PM

We've all heard that shit before, "Albert".

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: Emma B
Date: 20 May 08 - 12:49 PM

From The Middle East Times also....

'Shouldn't Palestinians forgive Israel?'

'For the Palestinians who are prepared to forgive the hope is that the majority of Israelis, out of decency or out of sheer desire for a quiet life, don't want any more war. Realizing that Palestinian forgiveness meant that their national existence was no longer threatened, Israelis would want their government to seize the chance, not to confiscate more Palestinian land, but to consolidate the state of quiet and calmness, and do their best to rescue Palestinians from military occupation and second-rate citizenship.'


'In the first chapter of Amos Oz's novel, "My Michael," the protagonist Hannah recalls her childhood friends, Khalil and Aziz, two Palestinians who in 1948 disappeared along with 800,000 of their people. In the last chapter she imagines her two friends coming back to blow everything up. By then Hannah has descended into madness.

Hannah, like Oz and his generation of Israelis, knows that before the war of 1948 there was another, older and larger society than her own, and that that society was destroyed and its traces erased; the population was forced to leave, villages were razed to the ground and cities, neighborhoods and streets were renamed. She must also know that the destruction of the Palestinian society was necessary for the creation of Israel. Unlike her generation, however, Hannah is willing to admit what she knows; but that's only because she is mad.

Israelis know that, within the ongoing conflict, making this acknowledgement could, as the novel concludes, be an act of madness and a call for self-destruction. For such an acknowledgement endorses the basic and uncompromising Palestinian claims.

Practically every single Palestinian believes that before the Nakba – or "catastrophe" – there was a Palestinian society similar to Arab societies in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt; that if it hadn't been for Jewish migration to Palestine, with the intention and means of creating a Jewish state, Palestine would have progressed into a sovereign Palestinian state.

Were the Israelis to endorse such claims they would have to admit that the creation of the State of Israel has blocked the natural birth of the Palestinian state; they would, therefore, risk facing the call to stand up to their responsibilities and correct the wrong they have done.

But how could they do that without undoing their own nation and agreeing to become citizens of the long delayed Palestinian state? Could the Israelis – as a nation whose ancestors suffered a long history of discrimination, prosecution and genocide – take such a risk without being absolutely mad?

Madness, however, doesn't always lead to the risk of self-destruction. Indeed, some of it could be so benign as to be the only hope.

Let's imagine a Palestinian protagonist, a Palestinian Hannah who could understand the position of the Israelis – that they have no choice but to evade or postpone admitting the embarrassing facts of pre-1948; that at best they could try to skip these facts by supporting a half-baked solution, such as the so-called two-state solution, by which Palestinians are offered a compensatory miniature state.
A Palestinian Hannah would also acknowledge that the damage has been done and attempts to undo Israel could only lead to further damage – and that Palestinians must forgive Israelis.'

Samir el-Youssef is a Palestinian writer and critic

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 08 - 01:44 PM

Perhaps we need some music brought in again, to bring peace.

Back during the Israel/Lebanon crisis, there were many Concerts For Peace organised by the young people of Israel, with artists from all over the world taking part. One of those who helped to organise just such a concert was Aliza Hava, a young musician from New York who is doing all she can to promote peace in The Middle East. I'll put links to both her sites, so those who cannot link to Myspace, can also hear her music. There is a wonderful song on there called 'Rise' some of the words from which are below:

Aliza Hava

Also, from Aliza's myspace blog:

The Jerusalem Peacemakers

Aliza's myspace

"...We will learn to sing, not to fight, unless it's for our freedom and rights. We will hold each others hands, try hard to understand. Liberty is our demand. We are one people, one land. One people. One soul." (taken from 'Rise' by Aliza Hava)

The musicians are the ones who will eventually bring peace, for they have no barriers, no political axe to grind, just a strong desire for peace and harmony amongst all people.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: GUEST,JA woman
Date: 20 May 08 - 01:45 PM

The Guest above is me (Jewish/Arab woman) Apologies, I had trouble post the message.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: Ghost of Electricity (inactive)
Date: 20 May 08 - 01:52 PM

CarolC keeps referring to the "ethnic cleansing" of Palestinians by Israel.

In places where there is ethnic cleansing, the ethnic population in question is either wiped out decreases markedly. For example, think of the Jews from Arab and Moslem countries in the Middle East. Sixty years ago, there were about 1,000,000, Now there are, at best, a few thousand.

However, at the same time, in Israel/Palestine, there were about 1,000,000 Arabs. Now there are well over 5,000,000.

If Israel was attempting "ethnic cleansing," they are surely totally inept at it.

The TRUTH, of course, is that Israel is not ethnic cleansing. All calls for ethnic cleansing by extremist Israelis have been rejected by every Israeli government, right wing and left wing alike.

The cause of peace is not advanced by the constant repetitions of such blood libels as advanced by CarolC.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: Ghost of Electricity (inactive)
Date: 20 May 08 - 01:56 PM

"I similarly will not endorse the actions (in regard of Gaza) of the Likud ruling party in the Knesset until hell freezes over"

EmmaB,

Likud, headed by former-Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, is not the "ruling party in the Knesset."

The party in power is Kadima, a centrist party, headed by current Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: Emma B
Date: 20 May 08 - 02:05 PM

mea culpa!

.....a major split in 2005 saw Likud leader Ariel Sharon leave to form the new Kadima* party.

* 'Kadima's plan was devised by Sharon but Olmert must carry it out
Kadima was founded on the premise that Israel's long-term survival depends on safeguarding its Jewish majority and preventing Palestinian Arabs becoming the majority at any time in the future.'

BBC report 2006

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: CarolC
Date: 20 May 08 - 02:10 PM

Ethnic cleansing doesn't have to happen all at once, Ghost of Electricity. It can happen slowly over time. If the ultimate goal is the complete or even near complete removal of a particular population, that is ethnic cleansing. As I have said before, the process in both Israel and in occupied Palestine is ongoing (and relentless). There are many ways to remove a population. One way is to make it impossible for people to live in an area (bulldozing their homes to make room for new settlements to house the population that is replacing the original one, preventing them from putting up any new buildings, separating people from their means of making a living using roads accessible only to the new people, depriving people of access to their own water resources, depriving them of other necessities, like electricity and roads (this in happening in Israel) preventing the flow of goods and people into and out of an area. The methods aren't as quick as running them out at the point of a gun (a tactic that has been used), but the results are the same in the end.

When the Israeli government drives non-Jewish Palestinians out of their homes, destroys them, and then builds new, Jewish-only settlements in their place, and when they use other means of making it impossible for people to remain in an area, they are committing ethnic cleansing, because they are removing a particular group of people from the area and replacing them with different group of people.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: CarolC
Date: 20 May 08 - 02:14 PM

Unfortunately, the other parties are not really any better than Likud. Although the Labor party is less open about it, they are just as responsible for increasing and enlarging the settlements as Likud (and Kadima). They all have the same agenda, just different means of accomplishing it.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: Emma B
Date: 20 May 08 - 02:23 PM

btw ....
'The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine' is the title of Professor Ilan Pappés* book which looks at the 'history' hotly disputed here.

A review of the book by Stephen Lendman here

*'In 2007, Pappé left his position as a senior lecturer of Political Science at the University of Haifa......
Pappe said that he found it "increasingly difficult to live in Israel" with his "unwelcome views and convictions'

He is one of the predominant Israeli supporters of the 'One State Solution' where Palestinians and Israelis can live together in equality in one state for two people.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: Ghost of Electricity (inactive)
Date: 20 May 08 - 03:19 PM

The reality is that Israel will not be accepting a one-state solution any century soon.

The reality is that Israel is not going away any century soon.

The reality is that the Palestinians are not going away any century soon (and they are NOT being ethnically cleansed, despite what CarolC may say again and again and again).

The only solution is the two-state option. Israel has accepted that. Much of the Arab world has accepted that. The Palestinian leadership of Fatah has accepted that. Basically, the sides are so close to achieving the solution that its ridiculous that they haven't been able to get there.

Israel cannot be defeated by the terrorism of Hamas and Islmaic Jihad. All their terrorism does is make a solution impossible and make the day-to-day lives of the Palestinians intolerable.

If Hamas and Islamic Jihad accept the reality of Israel, disarm and STOP their terrorist activities, then there will be a Palestinian state within months.

Anyone who doesn't think so does not know Israelis. The vast majority of Israelis would be very happy to shut down the settler movement in the West Bank like they shut down the settler movement in Sinai and in Gaza.

An end to terrorism means an end to the opressiveness of the anti-terrorism measures enacted by Israel.

Both sides will have to compromise. Both sides know that. The question is, will it happen in the next year or two, or will it take decades?

One column I saw in a Canadian Jewish newspaper recently said that the Palestinians are not the worst enemies faced by the Jews in recent decades. That honor belongs to the Nazis. The column pointed out that Germany is now one of Israel's closest allies and that the German head of governmnet recently spoke to the Knesset in German. The columnist concluded that if Israel, the Jewish state, can be friends with Germany after the Holocaust, then peace with the Palestinians is surely possible.

AND THAT IS ALL I'VE GOT TO SAY ANYMORE.

Peace, I wish you well.

CarolC, I won't hear another word you ever have to say.

Shalom! Saalam! Peace!

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 20 May 08 - 03:40 PM

I have read where many of you here favor a one state solution for Israel and Palestine. This is the panacea that will bring peace and harmony between and among Israelis (Jews) and Arabs (Muslims), to say nothing of the West in general and Islamists.

I believe many of you believe this scenario, but I also believe that some of you present the idea very cynically.

How optimistic should I be that such a one state solution would work?
Let's see: Crete--island still divided after 25 years or more between Greece and Turkey after British leave; Czechoslovakia splits into Czech Republic and Slovakia; Yugoslavia splits into many ethnic countries and then some; Kurds attempting to establish a homeland in parts of Turkey and Iraq, independent of either; and there is a nascent movement to divide Dutch speaking Belgium from French speaking Belgium. I'm sure if I wanted to take the time I'd find several more such examples.

Based upon recent history, I'm not at all confident that a one-state solution on the Mediterranean Coast is a viable option. In fact, I think I have a better chance to be US president (<0.00001%) than a one-state 'Israstine' has of working to the mutual benefit of those populations.

JotSC

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: irishenglish
Date: 20 May 08 - 03:44 PM

John- it is Cyprus, not Crete, divided between Greece and Turkey.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 20 May 08 - 04:04 PM

Thank you, irishenglish, I was about to correct that, but you beat me to it. My point remains, however.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: Peace
Date: 20 May 08 - 04:09 PM

"Canada's longest peacekeeping mission began a few years after the Suez Crisis. In 1959, Cyprus, an island in the Mediterranean, gained its independence from Great Britain. Greek and Turkish communities on the island, however, could not coexist peacefully. By 1963, fighting had broken out between the two groups. When both Greece and Turkey threatened to intervene, the conflict was poised to become an international crisis. Britain hoped to restore peace through the intervention of the UN. Subsequently, UN troops, including a Canadian contingent, were stationed in Cyprus to keep the peace. In the past, Canadian troops had been regarded as essentially "British." However, their presence in Cyprus elicited no objection from either the Turkish or Greek Cypriots, indicating that Canada was regarded as a state whose position was essentially a neutral one. The conflict continued, however, and led to the partitioning of Cyprus into Turkish and Greek republics.


Copyright Canadian War Museum (AC 19900170-004).

Liaison with the Muhktar LdSH(RC), Louroujina, Cyprus, by Dr. Geoffrey George Jamieson.

An officer of Lord Strathcona's Horse (Royal Canadians) facilitates negotiations between two Cypriot leaders. From 1963 until the mid-1990s, Canadians were very active in keeping the peace in Cyprus. Canada still has a small contingent of observers on the island.

On 15 July 1974, Greek army officers serving in the Greek Cypriot National Guard staged a coup d'état against the president of Cyprus, Archbishop Makarios. Their aim was to unite Cyprus with Greece, the goal that was the original cause of the Cypriot civil war. Turkey reacted five days later by launching an amphibious invasion of Cyprus with 40,000 troops. Turkey's stated aim was the protection of the Turkish Cypriot minority. Within 24 hours, the Turkish invasion force had gone beyond its initial objectives, securing the port of Kryenia, their beachhead in the northern part of Cyprus, and extending its territory into the Turkish sector of Nicosia. Their final objective was to be the Nicosia airport on the western end the city. Indian Lieutenant-General Prem Chand, who had also commanded the 1962 UN action against secessionist Katangan gendarmes and mercenaries, led the UN forces in Cyprus. He and his chief of staff, Canada's Colonel Clay Beattie, who was also the commander of the Canadian contingent, decided that to allow the Turks to take the airport would be an unacceptable blow to UN credibility.


   
Elements of the Canadian Airborne Regiment, Canada's UNFICYP (United Nations Peacekeeping Force in Cyprus) contingent at the time, were deployed to the airport, which had been defined as a UN protected zone. An initial attack by the Turks was stopped by Greek Cypriot defensive fire, but, when word of an impending second assault reached the Canadian contingent, it reminded both sides that they had agreed to a ceasefire. The Canadian soldiers also clearly stated that they would defend their positions. The world press could then report a Turkish assault on UN troops. The Turks apparently believed that the Canadian contingent would stand its ground -- they certainly had the means to overcome these troops but chose not to do so. Bravado, credible because of the evident professionalism of Canada's soldiers, won the day. In addition to preventing the Nicosia airport from falling into Turk hands, the action defined a new style of peacekeeping: actively intervening between opposing sides rather than passively occupying ground between them. Actions at the airport and other hot spots throughout Nicosia came at a high cost for Canadian peacekeepers, 2 dead and more than 30 wounded! The same proactive style of peacekeeping, which certainly has its roots in the UN action in Katanga in 1960s, was to be used in Croatia and Bosnia. These operations, however, exacted an even higher price.

United Nations (UN 84573).

Peacekeeping Force, Kato Pyrgos, Cyprus, 15 April 1964.

The United Nations Security Council established the United Nations Peacekeeping Force in Cyprus to help prevent a recurrence of hostilities between Turk and Greek Cypriots. The force was comprised of contingents from Canada, Finland, Ireland, Sweden, and the United Kingdom.

Canada kept an infantry battalion of varying size in Cyprus until the mid-1990s and still maintains a small group of observers there. Virtually every Canadian infantry battalion did at least one Cyprus tour, and most did several. Armoured regiments and at least one artillery regiment also took their turn.

With Suez, Cyprus, and a number of other smaller missions, peacekeeping was established as a central feature of Canadian foreign policy. It continued to be vital both to Canadian diplomacy and military policy right up until the 1980s and 1990s."

Keeping peace there has cost the deaths of about 30 Canadians. FYI.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: Peace
Date: 20 May 08 - 04:09 PM

BTW, welcome back, John.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: GUEST,albert
Date: 20 May 08 - 04:25 PM

I am glad Emma B has referred to Prof Ilan Pappe's book" The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine2.This book ,written by an Israeli,is a devastating account of the ethnic cleansing undergone by the Palestinians as their homeland was taken over by Zionists .
It is an account of the destruction of hundreds of Palestinian villages ,the forced expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians and the mass murder of Palestinians as Zionist terror squads moved in with knives, grenades and machine guns to kill and expel.
Albert

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: CarolC
Date: 20 May 08 - 06:23 PM

The only solution is the two-state option. Israel has accepted that. Much of the Arab world has accepted that. The Palestinian leadership of Fatah has accepted that. Basically, the sides are so close to achieving the solution that its ridiculous that they haven't been able to get there.

The only thing stopping Israel from doing what is needed for the Palestinians to have their own state is their unwillingness to allow the Palestinians to have their own state. Do you really think that if Israel was honest about accepting that the Palestinians should have their own state, they would still be increasing the size and amount of settlements? Of course they wouldn't. And yet they are increasing the size and amount of settlements, and they are also assisting the settlers in the settlements that the government of Israel itself has declared illegal.

The settlements are a part of an overall strategy of ethnic cleansing along with the other things I mentioned... denial of the Palestinians access to their own water, denial of services to Arab Israelis, denial of building permits for Palestinians, both in occupied Palestine as well as in Israel itself, the choking off of the Palestinian economy through the prevention of movement of goods and people, settler harassment of Palestinians, denial of access to health care through preventing people at road blocks from getting to the hospital, and other things as well.

The ultimate goal is to have all of the Palestinians removed, or coerced into leaving until there are none left.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: Peace
Date: 20 May 08 - 10:16 PM

And it keeps getting deeper and deeper on this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: GUEST,albert
Date: 21 May 08 - 02:24 AM

"And it keeps getting deeper and deeper on this thread."

I see it as more of the truth about Palestine /Israel emerging through the above postings. After all the Palestinian people have rarely received fair coverage of their plight from the western media or sympathetic regard from the powers who originally backed the Zionist conquest of the Palestinian homeland.
albert

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: Emma B
Date: 21 May 08 - 04:51 AM

Oasis of Peace

(ne-vé shal-om / waah-at i-sal-aam: Hebrew and Arabic for Oasis of Peace [Isaiah 32:18]): A village, jointly established by Jewish and Palestinian Arab citizens of Israel, that is engaged in educational work for peace, equality and understanding between the two peoples.

Neriya Mark is Jewish and Sama Daoud is Arab Muslim.
They are friends that have grown up together in Neve Shalom/ Wahat al Salam, an Arab-Jewish village founded in 1970 in Israel.

Interviwed about their experiences and hopes on BBC Radio 4's ptogramme Midweek this morning.

A village today.....
A country tomorrow?

only equality and understanding can bring about a lasting peace

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: Emma B
Date: 21 May 08 - 05:07 AM

Oasis of Peace - A brief history of the village

'Over thirty years ago, a man named Father Hussar first came to dwell on the land in Israel that would come to be known as an Oasis of Peace, home to a School for Peace and a primary school and to residents committed to living together and respecting one another's language and culture.
Inspired by a phrase in the book of Isaiah, Father Bruno envisioned a manifestation of the Old Testament's prophecy that "My people shall dwell in an oasis of peace" (32:18).
Neve Shalom/Wahat al-Salam/Oasis of Peace was conceived of and nurtured by Father Bruno, a Jew born in Egypt and a convert to Catholicism, who dedicated over 30 years of his life encouraging peaceful coexistence between Jews and Arabs.

Father Bruno believed there were two "rights" in Israel and Palestine: the right of Jews to inhabit the Jewish state created in 1948 and the right of Arabs to maintain their homeland and live as full citizens in Israel.
He envisioned the need for a place that could be a model for peaceful coexistence between Arabs and Jews.
In 1972, he camped without modern conveniences upon a hillside that he leased from the nearby Trappist Latrun Monastery for 25 cents a year for 100 years. In 1978, the first family arrived to join him along with funds to begin construction on infrastructure for water, sewage, and electricity.

Father Bruno later wrote of his idea, "We had in mind a small village composed of inhabitants from different communities in the country. Jews, Christians, and Muslims would live there in peace, each one faithful to his own faith and traditions, while respecting those of the others. Each would find in this diversity a source of personal enrichment."
Placing Jews and Arabs together was only part of a goal that would involve providing "the setting for a school for peace." Father Bruno stated, "For years there have been academies in the various countries where the art of war has been taught. . . [W]e wanted to found a school for peace, for peace too is an art. . . People would come here from all over the country to meet those from whom they were estranged, wanting to break down the barriers of fear, mistrust, ignorance, misunderstanding, preconceived ideas—all things that separate us—and to build bridges of trust, respect, mutual understanding, and, if possible, friendship.

Report of visit by Janet Langhart and William Cohen here

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: goatfell
Date: 21 May 08 - 09:27 AM

Just because you support either factions you're a racist, or believe in free speech you're a racist as well.

there are exstrimes on both sides not just the one side, as there is always three sides to a story your side, their side and the truth.

I jsut don't support terrorists and I don't care what they believe in killing people is wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: pdq
Date: 21 May 08 - 10:13 AM

Emma B:

If the people you call Palestinian are an ethnic group because of where they live, please show precisely where that is.

For a geographic area to carry a valid name, it must have reasonably well-defined borders. Let's see them.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: Peace
Date: 21 May 08 - 10:16 AM

Good morning.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: GUEST,Arnie
Date: 21 May 08 - 10:53 AM

This is what is likely to happen. Israel will soon sign a peace treaty with the Palestinians to withdraw to the 1967 boarders with Jerusalem as a jointly controlled city. The Palestinians will have an official State. Refugees will be allowed to settle in their state. Terrorism will for the most part be put on hold for just a little while. The next step will be an anti Zionist propaganda campaign and eventually an orchestrated Arab attack planned and executed by the Jihadists to get control of the rest of Israel and end the Israeli state, but unfortunately that will again not succeed, and it'll be back to dismal Palestinian despair.
Until the Arabs can really contemplate an Israeli Jewish Zionist state to exist- they will never have a good future for the Palestinian people.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: GUEST,albert
Date: 21 May 08 - 12:15 PM

To Arnie
Wll I think you are wrong in your prediction that Israel will soon sign a peace treaty with the Palestinians.

It is far more likely that Israel will continue to allow Zionist armed paramilitary and settler groups to build more and more fortified townships on Palestinian land in the occupied West Bank,which Mudcat users will recall is not,and has never been,a part of Israel.

Israel ,which is under the control of a right wing hawkish government seems intent on carving up the West Bank into many small "bantustans" ringed by Israeli military forces ,armed checkpoints and with movement between these bantustans strictly controlled and regulated.And of course the huge Apartheid Wall which extends for hundreds of miles through Palestinian land cutting off Palestinian farmers from their fields and orchards and villages from their hinterlands ,is part of this programme of Israeli control of the Palestinian people and the theft of their land.

Gaza and Lebanon seem to be the rock on which the Israeli military is blunting itself.The Israeli military took a beating two summers agoin Lebanon and were outthought and outfought by the Guerillas led by Hezbollah.Likewise in Gaza ,despite the illegal and barbaric sustained attacks on its civilian population the Israeli military has yet to make Hamas submit.

In Northern Ireland the trial is about to start of anti war campaigners who closed the arms manufacturer ,Raytheon, for a day during the Israeli invasion.They occupied their Derry office in protest at the supplying of military equipment to Israel by Raytheon.
I would imagine that world wide support for the Palestinian cause is helping to sustain morale in both Gaza and on the West Bank.
albert

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: Peace
Date: 21 May 08 - 12:23 PM

SSDD from "Guest, Albert".

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: Ghost of Electricity (inactive)
Date: 21 May 08 - 01:01 PM

This article is by Sheldon Kirshner:

Zionist movement was aided by Palestinians
Thursday, 22 May 2008

It goes without saying that Palestinian Arabs were opposed to Zionism. But from the moment they mounted a concerted campaign to fight it, the Palestinians split into two warring camps, much to the benefit of the Yishuv, the Jewish community in Palestine.

The mainstream camp, led by Mohammed Amin al-Husseini, the grand mufti of Jerusalem, could not reconcile itself to the Zionist project, whose ultimate goal was Jewish statehood. The accommodationist camp, which was identified with his bitter rival, the Nashashibi family, was pragmatic and open to coexistence with the Zionists, believing that they were simply too strong to be defeated.

This divergence of views had major ramifications. The accommodationists, largely consisting of regional leaders who had forged ties with the Yishuv and resented Husseini's intransigent leadership, aided the Zionists politically, economically and even militarily. When nation-wide fighting broke out in November 1947 and escalated after five Arab armies invaded Israel in May 1948, two important developments occurred, both of which tilted the balance of power in favour of Jews.

First, relatively few Palestinian Arabs joined the armed struggle to throttle the Yishuv. Second, in violation of national leadership edicts, some Arab villages reached non-aggression pacts with their Jewish neighbours.

Not surprisingly, Palestinian scholars have glossed over this sensitive topic, and strangely enough, many Israeli historians have made light of it. Hillel Cohen, an Israeli research fellow at the Truman Institute for the Advancement of Peace at the Hebrew University, tackles it head on in a path-blazing book, Army of Shadows: Palestinian Collaboration With Zionism, 1917-1948 (University of California Press).

Cohen is familiar with the broad terrain of the subject, having written two related books, The Present Absentee: Palestinian Refugees in Israel Since 1948 and Good Arabs: The Israeli Security Service and the Israeli Arabs. Cohen's current work, based on declassified Zionist, Arab and British archives, illuminates the issue.

As he points out, Zionist diplomacy only seriously began to consider relations with the Arab inhabitants of Palestine following the British occupation in 1917. Until then, the Zionist movement concentrated on cultivating ties with the Ottoman Empire, which ruled Palestine, and currying favour with European powers such as Britain, Germany and France, which had vital interests in the Middle East and might be of help in furthering the Jewish cause in Palestine.

The Balfour Declaration, issued by the British government on Nov. 2, 1917, galvanized the Palestinians, prompting them to form nationalist organizations, mount anti-Zionist demonstrations and carry out attacks against Jews.

In response, Zionist leaders – spearheaded by Chaim Margaliot Kalvarisky, a land purchaser for the Jewish Colonization Association, and Col. Frederick Kisch, a retired British intelligence officer and head of the Zionist executive's political department – devised a counter-strategy. Chaim Weizmann, the president of the World Zionist Organization, was also involved in this campaign.

Underpinned by the naive assumption that an authentic Arab national movement in Palestine did not exist, it sought to create a cooperative Palestinian leadership, deepen already existing fissures in Palestinian society by fomenting conflict between Christians and Muslims, and develop a cadre of Palestinian newspaper writers to laud the advantages of co-operation with Zionism.

The Palestinians who chose co-operation were driven by various motives. Some assumed that the Zionist movement was an arm of the British Mandate and, therefore, should be cultivated. Still other Palestinians, particularly land dealers and job seekers, were animated by personal gain. Palestinians who considered themselves nationalists but who were opposed to the Husseini leadership were also targeted by Zionist strategists. Palestinians who had Jewish friends and who were repelled by the violence of Palestinians also tended to favour co-operation.

With this in mind, Kalvarisky established the Muslim National Associations, a loose network of Palestinian political parties. But the concept did not work, and after more than a decade, he abandoned the idea altogether.

Playing on old animosities, Zionists courted Bedouin tribes, which at first did not identify with the Palestinians. Indeed, some Bedouins regarded the Palestinian national movement as a threat.

Efforts to recruit the Druze of Mount Carmel were undertaken as well. Officially, the Druze community remained neutral, but in practice, Druze fighters drifted into both the Jewish and Arab camps. As for Christians, they played a marginal role in developments.

Zionists tried to shape Arab public opinion by subsidizing Palestinian newspapers in Jaffa and Jerusalem and by recruiting writers who would sing the praises of Arab-Jewish co-operation and brotherhood. But as Cohen suggests, this strategy was only partially successful.

Since land purchase was a key objective of the Yishuv, Zionist agents cast their gaze at Palestinian landowners, such as the Abu Ghosh family, and absentee Arab landlords residing in neighbouring countries.   

Palestinian nationalists tried to block these transactions by various means. Yet by 1948, the Zionist movement had succeeded in buying seven per cent of the land in Palestine.

Palestinians bitterly opposed to such transactions did not sit quietly. In 1925, the first fatwa forbidding the sale of land to Jews was issued. But as Cohen observes, it was left to the British to impose effective restrictions on land sales.

On another front, the Zionist movement tried to recruit Palestinian public figures and informers. The first Palestinian Arab accused of collaboration, a village elder from the Mt. Hebron area, was murdered in 1929. The mayor of Haifa, Hasan Shukri, a symbol of coexistence, survived an attempt on his life.

The Zionist movement attempted to forge economic links with the Palestinians, since they constituted a natural market for goods produced in the Jewish sector. But with the 1929 riots, the Arab Executive Committee declared an economic boycott, calling on Palestinian consumers to buy solely Arab products.

Shortly after the United Nations passed the 1947 Palestine partition resolution, the Higher Arab Committee, headed by the Husseini clan, issued a declaration urging Palestinians to continue the boycott and "to consider any connection with (Jews) as a severe crime and a great betrayal."

Arabs were strongly urged to take up arms and fight for the homeland. Yet during the 1948 war, the majority of able-bodied Palestinian men did not heed that call. In some cases, village elders refused to allow Arab fighters to deploy in their villages.

As the war raged, Arab informers provided Zionist intelligence operatives with valuable political and military information, Arabs turned over British police stations to Zionist forces and Arab merchants sold food to Jews.

It was also not uncommon for Palestinian Arabs to sell weapons to the Zionist side. These arms merchants sold their wares to the Haganah and the more militant Etzel and Lehi militias, their only motive being profit, Cohen says.

Israel won the War of Independence due to a number of compelling factors, notably   superior military organization and higher morale.

But as Cohen notes, covert Palestinian co-operation with the Zionist movement was certainly a contributing factor in Israel's seminal victory.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: CarolC
Date: 21 May 08 - 02:01 PM

I notice two different essential arguments coming from those who disagree with what I have been saying, and what a few others have been saying in threads about Israel/Palestine.

One argument is that Israel is not committing ethnic cleansing and wants to allow the Palestinians to have a state of their own, and the other is that the Palestinian homeland is in Jordan.

I think it would be instructive for those who believe that Israel is not committing ethnic cleansing and does not have the ultimate goal of removing all of the Palestinians from occupied Palestine to pay attention to the arguments made by those who are saying that Jordan is the Palestinian homeland. Because to me, this looks like not only an awareness that the removal of the Palestinians is the goal, but also approval of that goal.

(And now I anticipate another gratuitous snipe from the Mudcatter with the ironic screen name.)

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: CarolC
Date: 21 May 08 - 02:09 PM

Ghost of Electricity, that copy/paste you posted looks like a far more serious indictment of the Zionist leadership than it does of the Palestinians.

And let's not foget that Mohammed Amin al-Husseini, the grand mufti of Jerusalem, was released from prison and installed in his position of power by a Zionist. I would suggest that the reason this was done was because the Zionist leadership knew that fomenting violence would do far more to serve their agenda than allowing things to resolve themselves peacefully.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: Peace
Date: 21 May 08 - 03:33 PM

Poor baby will be complaing about personal attacks, won't you Carol?

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: CarolC
Date: 22 May 08 - 02:08 AM

Like I said...

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: Ghost of Electricity (inactive)
Date: 22 May 08 - 09:36 AM

Someone said the article I posted yesterday was a more serious indictment of the Zionist leadership than it was of the Palestinians.

Actually, the article is not an indictment of either side. It is a look at a book that examines a relatively unknown facet of the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: GUEST,Albert
Date: 22 May 08 - 11:46 AM

Ilan Pappe is a very well respected Israeli historian of the roots of the Israeli state.He is now working as a professor in Britain.His book on the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians from their land is a devastating account of the Nakbha [catastrophe ] and infinitely preferable to the zionist guff churned out as an apologia for the war crimes committed during the past 60 years.
albert

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: Emma B
Date: 22 May 08 - 01:44 PM

A book worth reading....

Palestinian Walks: Notes on a Vanishing Landscape by Raja Shehadeh, published by Profile books

Ian Black, the Guardian's Middle East editor
reviews


'Shehadeh, the author of several other acclaimed (and more optimistic) memoirs, has not produced a guidebook to rambling and hiking in the Holy Land: there are no routes up mountains or recommendations of cosy pubs in lonely valleys, no sketches of the stone shelters built by farmers to store their crops or shelter their sheep. But, like the poet Mahmoud Darwish, he conjures up something of what has been lost, and is still being lost, to the Palestinians - and what that means.

Tellingly, the Arabic word "sarha" - a walk or roam - derives from the verb used for cattle grazing freely on pasture. Shehadeh's musings as he anxiously negotiates the changing landscape - isolated Palestinian enclaves, Israeli checkpoints and an ever-expanding network of settler-only bypass roads, and finally the "separation wall" - give new meaning to the "right to roam" that most in the west rightly take for granted'

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: Peace
Date: 22 May 08 - 01:50 PM

"Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: CarolC - PM
Date: 22 May 08 - 02:08 AM

Like I said..."

You mean 'As I said...'

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: bobad
Date: 22 May 08 - 01:59 PM

A critique of Ilan Pappe

"The most hated Israeli in Israel" - an ignoble moniker to be sure - has not eroded Ilan Pappe's star power on U.S. college campuses, where he is more often than not warmly greeted. The usual contingent of Said acolytes, Chomsky groupies and a panoply of pro-Palestinian student organizations are invariably well-represented in his audiences. The prominence of resolutely anti-Israel partisans is unsurprising, given Pappe's role as one of Israel's most prominent die-hard Marxists. Pappe was invited to UCLA by history professor and fellow Edward Said disciple, Gabriel Piterberg. A call to the university revealed that history department professors may invite speakers at their own discretion using departmental funding to cover expenses for colloquia without any oversight. This practice enables faculty to freely promulgate their political agendas and control the degree to which students are presented with alternative views and critiques. Piterberg has been labeled "an avant-garde radical who harangues campus demonstrations, endorses petitions and teaches a course in post-and anti-Zionism."

http://www.masada2000.org/Ilan-Pappe.html

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: CarolC
Date: 22 May 08 - 02:03 PM

Actually, the article is not an indictment of either side. It is a look at a book that examines a relatively unknown facet of the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

I don't agree. It shows what I have been saying for a long time; that the majority of Palestinians did not hate Jews or commit violence, and it shows some if the manipulations that the Zionist leadership used to work toward their goal of displacing Palestinians. It also supports the argument I have been making that al-Husseini was appointed to the position of Grand Mufti of Jerusalem in violation of the wishes of the majority of the Palestinians and of the Palestinian leadership.

Some of the arguments that people defending the actions of the Zionist leadership and the Israeli leadership have been making are the idea that the Palestinians hated Jews and that the majority of them wanted to "drive the Jews into the sea", and they have been using this excuse to try to legitimize what has been done to the Palestinians. I have been arguing since 2002 that this is a terrible libel that has been and is being committed against the Palestinians, and that it's not true.

Your article vindicates what I have been saying since 2002.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: bobad
Date: 22 May 08 - 02:09 PM

Another excerpt from the aforementioned critique:

"Pappe's scholarship is questionable and subject to much criticism by respected historians. He dismisses the legitimacy of historical facts and rewrites history to support his ideologically determined agenda. He has admitted to the predominance of the Marxist worldview in defining conclusions and outcomes, by asserting that "we do [historiography] because of ideological reasons, not because we are truth seekers."

Pappe routinely and purposefully discredits or ignores sources that contradict his anti-Zionist views, and when challenged by students who cite accepted historical narratives, criticizes them for reading "the wrong books." When confronted by the actual, benign text of an Israeli military doctrine, which contradicted Pappe's thesis that such documents called for the expulsion of Palestinian Arabs, he admitted that no such doctrinal statement actually existed, but was implied simply by the existence and concomitant predispositions of Zionism."

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: CarolC
Date: 22 May 08 - 02:13 PM

bobad has linked to the Masada 2000 site. Masada 2000 is a hate group, not unlike skinhead and neo-Nazi groups. Here is their "shit list" (hate list) of 7000 Jews who don't support what the government of Israel is doing to the Palestinians. Ilan Pappe is in some excellent companyon that list...

http://www.masada2000.org/list-A.html

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: CarolC
Date: 22 May 08 - 02:21 PM

The last time I looked at the Masada 2000 "shit list" it had under 4,000 Jews on it. I expect that list is going to get pretty long before they're finished with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: bobad
Date: 22 May 08 - 02:35 PM

Palestinians Killing Palestinians

Maybe you'd like to read about how Palestinians treat their fellow countrymen on their shitlist. Some nice pictures too.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: CarolC
Date: 22 May 08 - 02:43 PM

bobad, I've been saying for a long time that there were many Palestinian victims of the Mufti. You're only supporting my arguments with that post.

The Palestinian leadership did not want al-Husseini to be the Grand Mufti, and neither did the majority of Palestinians. The considered him to be a thug. But it was the Zionist, Herbert Samuel who had him released from prison and installed him as the Mufti. al-Husseini killed anyone who resisted him, including Palestinians. And yet, all of the Palestinians are still being punished for the acts of a man they didn't want or support, and who was appointed to his position of power by a Zionist.

As far as the rest of it goes, why should you care if Palestinians are killing Palestinians? The idea is to get rid of the Palestinians, right. It looks to me like they're just doing you a favor.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: CarolC
Date: 22 May 08 - 02:59 PM

Of course, we don't have to look too far for examples of Jews killing Jews in Israel and Palestine. Jews were killed in the terrorist bombing of the King David hotel. And Jews (Jewish children, but they weren't of European origin, so who cares, right?) were killed during the eugenically and financially motivated "ringworm experiments". And then, of course, there's the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin.

So I guess the Palestinians don't have any kind of monopoly on that sort of thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: Emma B
Date: 22 May 08 - 03:01 PM

Carol that Shit list you linked to is just plain nasty!

Here is a description of 'Rabbi' Arthur J.Abrams (the inverted commas are from the author of the shit list!) as a 'bald-headed baboon of a rabbi'

The Vancouver, British Columbian singer Stephen Aberle, a steering committee member for Jews for a Just Peace, is damned for daring to call Jew and Arabs "brothers and sisters!"

and that's just the first few 'As'!

btw ...
Ilan Pappe ran for the Knesset on the Hadash ticket (a left-wing non-Zionist political party in Israel - an acronymn translated as The Democratic Front for Peace and Equality) which supports evacuation of all illegal Israeli settlements and calls for recognition of Palestinian Arabs as a national minority within Israel.
Hadash is also known for being active on social and environmental issues.

Ilan Pappe is currently Professor of History at the University of Exeter and is referred to as one of the
'New Historians'

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: bobad
Date: 22 May 08 - 03:28 PM

"New Historians" - "we do [historiography] because of ideological reasons, not because we are truth seekers."

That about encapsulates it.

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: Ghost of Electricity (inactive)
Date: 22 May 08 - 03:35 PM

Vindication for watchdog on al-Dura video

Devorah Lauter

The decision by a Paris court to overturn a libel ruling against a French media watchdog who claimed the iconic shooting of 12-year-old Mohammed al-Dura was manipulated by video editing lent new credence to claims that the shooting was staged.

Published: 05/22/2008


PARIS (JTA) -- Ever since Mohammed al-Dura was shot and killed at Gaza's Netzarim Junction on Sept. 30, 2000 amid Israeli-Palestinian fighting, claims that the boy's death was staged for prime-time TV have struggled for credence outside the Jewish world.

One French media watchdog who was especially strident in making this claim, Philippe Karsenty, paid a heavy price for his advocacy: He was sued for libel by the TV station that shot the al-Dura footage, France 2 TV, and slapped with fines totaling nearly $7,000. The 2006 ruling found Karsenty guilty of libel for claiming France 2 TV's report was "pure fiction."

But on Wednesday, Karsenty was vindicated when a Paris appeals court overturned this original judgment against him.

"It is a great day for the freedom of expression in France, the freedom of media and the truth in the media," Karsenty told JTA after the ruling.

The move lent new credence to the claims by Karsenty and others that the iconic shooting of the 12-year-old Palestinian boy, which fanned the flames of the second intifada, was manipulated by video editing.

The ruling "means there is a strong chance that I'm right," Karsenty said.

The court's decision said Karsenty, director of a group called Media Ratings, had the right to accuse France 2 TV and its Jerusalem correspondent, Charles Enderlin, of manipulating the video of al-Dura.

The video in question showed al-Dura and his father cowering in terror while trying to shelter themselves from gunfire. The film then cut to a slumped, motionless Mohammed lying in his father's lap.

Enderlin, narrating the video shot in Gaza by a France 2 cameraman, pronounced the boy dead and said Israel was responsible.

The footage became an iconic image used around the world to vilify Israel and, in some cases, Jews.

"Even I cried when I saw those images," said Sammy Ghozlan, a French Jewish leader and the president of the National Bureau of Vigilance against Anti-Semitism. "They were everywhere, and they set off the surge of anti-Semitism in France."

But the circumstances of the boy's death later came under question. Israel, after initially apologizing for the incident, said a subsequent investigation showed its troops could not possibly have struck the boy from their positions that day.

"Events could not have occurred as they were described by the network's reporter, Charles Enderlin, since they contradict the laws of physics," Israeli government spokesman Danny Seaman wrote in a letter to The Associated Press.

Activists raised further doubts about the film's authenticity when they discovered Enderlin had been in Ramallah the day of the filming, and that a freelance Palestinian photographer had shot the footage.

Additional footage, which was not included in the broadcast by the French network, also appeared to show the al-Dura boy lift his head and open his eyes after being pronounced dead. France 2 TV had refused to make that footage public until ordered to show it to a French court last November.

Other video reports by Reuters on the day of the Gaza clash showed groups of young Palestinian men staging scenes where they were carried into ambulances as if seriously wounded, then emerging from the ambulances uninjured and laughing.

Even as Karsenty celebrated his courtroom victory this week, France 2 appealed Wednesday's ruling to the Final Court of Appeals, Paris officials said Thursday.

Karsenty said he wasn't too concerned, and that the vindication of his claims was sweet given that few paid attention to, or believed, his claims -- particularly in France.

Few french Jewish groups embraced his cause, and Jewish groups in the United States were slow to.

Last fall, France 2's communications director, Christine de la Vena, told JTA, "Everyone has forgotten about this case except this man in the hearing and a couple of others who refuse to give it up. Only in France could a couple of individuals cause so much trouble."

Richard Prasquier, the president of the CRIF umbrella group of French Jews, eventually did offer the CRIF's backing to Karsenty, and several U.S. Jewish groups touted his claims.

The American Jewish Committee and the Zionist Organization of America applauded Wednesday's ruling. The ZOA will honor Karsenty with its Ben Hecht Journalism Award in New York this November.

Karsenty and many of his supporters said they hope this week's ruling will help bring the truth behind the al-Dura shooting to light.

"I'm happy that the judge recognizes we have a right to ask questions about the media, and that France 2 isn't beyond any suspicion," said Jacque Tarnero, a co-director of the documentary film "Decipherings" that focuses on the French media's portrayals of Israel during the first few years of the second intifada. "But now we still don't know the truth or the facts."

Tarnero called for the release of additional footage of the al-Dura shooting never made available by France 2. He called for a deeper investigation of the report, which became a symbol of the "supposed barbarism of Israelis who killed children."

"Now it is time for France 2 to acknowledge that it created and is continuing to perpetuate the worst anti-Semitic libel of our era," Karsenty said.

"It's the responsibility of the French government, and ultimately the responsibility of the French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, to finally reveal the truth."

Subject: RE: BS: Palestinian 'facts'
From: Ghost of Electricity (inactive)
Date: 22 May 08 - 03:51 PM

"Masada 2000 is a hate group, not unlike skinhead and neo-Nazi groups."

CarolC is absolutely correct about Masada 2000.

It is run by the followers of the late Rabbi Meir Kahane, a racist extremist from Brooklyn, NY, who moved to Israel and founded the Kach political party.

Kach was declared illegal and banned in Israel because of its overt racism.

As Kahane followers, the Masada 2000 would not be allowed to exist in Israel. It is based in Scotsdale, Arizona.