BS: stay afloat while others don't

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Thompson
Date: 30 Oct 24 - 04:52 PM

Interesting piece in the Guardian about an experimental treatment for one of the most distressing symptoms of psychotic breakdown, The Voices.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Oct 24 - 05:24 PM

Today I saw this and it doesn't take much time to contemplate the arc of what this guy is going to experience, in rapid succession, in the next few days, both socially and legally.

He thought he was so smart to grab the glove and the ball, but on live TV with millions watching and he is clearly identifiable, the fans are going to crucify him while the courts spoil his day. And he'll probably be banned from attending games forever.

That said, my one thought at the very end of the video is that the profile of this guy looks like Down's Syndrome - and that could be a mitigating factor.

I'm curious to see if this guy stays afloat or not. (It's possible we could all be really surprised.)

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Nov 24 - 12:49 PM

So glad to hear that Mrrzy had a good visit with hospitalized son.
Those visits have to be good for the soul.

Yesterday I traded in my old car for a gently used car,
never an easy move for me as I hang onto cars.
But I have hopes this newer car will serve me well.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 02 Nov 24 - 02:46 PM

Yes, better times ahead for Mrrzy and family, I hope.

keb, what a coincidence! I bought a newish secondhand car a few weeks ago and sold my 19 year old car which I have had for 17 years. I keep my cars a long time too but this one was for longer than any of the others. She's an old friend, part of the family but luckily she has gone to a good home. I put a For Sale sign on her, parked her out the front of the house, and a neighbour couple checked her out, test drove her and then paid for her within four days. I was panicking about driving the new car but I'm used to her now.

The funny thing is that I learned to drive just over 50 years ago in an FJ Holden which was as old as me, and which my Dad, a motor mechanic, owned and looked after like a member of the family, and the number plate on the new car has FJ in it. First ever car that I drove is commemorated on the last car I will ever own. (Dad's FJ was the light blue colour shown on that page of photos.)

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Nov 24 - 03:35 PM

I heard part of that BBC thing on Voices, Thompson, fascinating, what a great idea.

Driving again taught me exactly which muscles I'd shredded at the ankle, by wow, pain up the shin and calf in truly specific fibers! But I love my stickshift.

Do you all do Halloween?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Thompson
Date: 02 Nov 24 - 03:55 PM

Hallowe'en here is like a small echo of Gaza. Fireworks, which are, strictly speaking, illegal (from the days when people were liable to make a revolution with their contents) are ubiquitous on that night. Samhain has also become Americanised, with lots of plastic cobweb material (fatal to small animals and birds, plus plastic skulls, plastic spiders, plastic witches, etc, as well as the old-fashioned thing of gangs of children dressed up and made up going around begging for sweets - nowadays saying "trick or treat" in the American style rather than "any apples and nuts" as we used to. The kids were flawlessly polite, most taking only one sweet from my plastic boxes of plastic-wrapped chocolate, and thanking me nicely, before going out again into the explosives-riddled sunset.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Nov 24 - 05:41 PM

No Halloween, I turn off lights and stay away from the front of the house, but I didn't hear anyone walking around in the street, so it was probably another quiet year. Most years here are quiet. My dogs don't appreciate the kids and costumes, so we hunker down to spare them the excitement.

Keb, good news on the newer used car. With each couple of years a whole bunch of useful safety features come along so it's a good thing for you to have traded up. (I also miss having a stickshift; the last couple of times I bought cars I didn't have the leisure to search for something with a good standard transmission. Not all are created equal, so I drive a ubiquitous automatic.)

That baseball duo I linked to seem to be staying afloat - after that stunt they were only banned from one game and their admission price to that game was refunded. There will still probably be a social comeuppance.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 06:21 PM

The newer used car I am now driving is holding up as it ought to do.
Today was time for the registration and the state inspection.

Wouldn't you know, my old license plates failed the inspection --
the plates are "chipping." Everything else passed.

So it was off to the department of motor vehicles in order to
order replacement plates, which may take up to ten weeks, they said,
to be delivered.
In the meantime, I am driving with the old plates on
and a paper license tag taped to the rear window.
Sigh. It's always something.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 01:12 PM

Keb, I love how minor that is, as aggravating things go! Not that it isn't aggravating, of course, but Everything passed but the plates is a pretty good inspection.
i hate failing inspection on something minor like that.
I once had someone put the intact but now-unattached side mirror their poor parking had apparently removed from my car onto the roof of the car, where I'd notice it, at least. Forgot about it when I went to get inspected. Passed because the guy said Well, the glass has to be intact, and it is.
So sometimes it's the people, not the car. Did you have to get a Failed sticker?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 02:54 PM

Right now the inspection sticker on my windshield is dated, which means it passed.
There may have been a failed sticker that had to go to the DMV to be processed. I remember the DMV visit but not clearly as I was that gobsmacked by the whole thing. Then it was also distracting to be told that the replacement license plates might take as long as ten weeks to be delivered. The temporary registration I have now (paper tag in rear window) is good for three weeks, and I can get extensions if the replacement plates have not arrived by then.
Of course the delivery of both plates and title will be to the apartment that is my residence, not the treatment center where I am staying. SO there will be traveling back and forth to keep up with things.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 06:23 PM

Staying afloat - ditching Spectrum is a struggle - when you try to close your account they send you to the sales folks who insist on this and that - discount offers, you're paid up and losing 10 days of service - crap - it really helps if you have a Scotch before making the call. On hold several times. The last time she came on (after telling me my router doesn't work well enough - it's blazing along at 650 on ATT, nothing to do with being deficient) I have repeated I want to simply close the account. I paid the last bill, I am aware that there are a few days to the end of the enrollment month, I don't give a phuck that I paid for service I'm not using. Ditching that 800-pound gorilla is a pleasure. Good riddance. I feel better already.

I feel awful about the election results and have already dedicated these savings to monthly donations to the ACLU.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Nov 24 - 10:11 AM

Yes, my credit card got compromised (well, I stupidly fell for a scam) so I am finding out about all kinds of recurring charges I forgot about, as they fail, because I canceled that card. Albatrosses, most of'm.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Nov 24 - 03:01 PM

A little bit of stress is good for body and soul. In fact it is healthy. Stress that is unrelenting over long periods is more dangerous.?

A cold bath or a hyperbaric chamber experience are both small stresses that can be good for you.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Nov 24 - 06:25 PM

Mrrzy I'm sorry to read about your credit card adventure. I suppose looking on the bright side you can cancel the accounts you weren't using. Save some money.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 11 Nov 24 - 08:34 PM

I don't know if I said this before, but when one of my debit cards was cloned and a couple of transactions for Pizza Hut and a chocolate shop in Atlanta, GA showed up on my statement the very helpful bank service person told me a good tip for online shopping. She suggested setting up a specific account and only adding money to it just before an online transaction, leaving a small amount only to keep the account open. That way, even if that account is compromised there is never enough money in it to worry about.

BTW, when I saw a Pizza Hut transaction I literally laughed out loud. I haven't been to a P/Hut for decades. They don't have shops around here any more. The transaction stood out like it was lit up in neon lights. I only lost about $200 and the bank reimbursed it after a quick investigation to show my transactions around that date were close to home and not in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Nov 24 - 10:38 AM

Indeed, Stilly.

Meanwhile as was not improving on the gabapentin, they've added olezapine, aka zyprexa, and I like it, but oh, do I not want to be back on meds. But I am feeling better, and having more energy, and disorganizedly organizing. I couldn't stay on task but I got a lot done by the end, just doing everthing at once and nothing first, like a General Products hull encountering antimatter. But stuff got done, the hats are sorted, the clean clothes folded if not in drawers, the kitchen acceptable if you don't open the fridge. That's today's project, so here I am on the Mudcat instead. On verra.

And on the tower (Amphigory reference), they are looking into why both legs are showing weakness now, so this morning was an MRI for lumbar. Probably cervical coming up... and myelograms, or whatever nerve tests for legs. Then for hands, I hope, as I am really dropping things a lot, some of which break. Anybody know where I can get a lovely green glass chillum with stars engraved? Don't recall where I got it, malheureusement.

One immediate effect of the olzo was getting back into my body, as I hadn't realized I had dissociated, but the things that didn't hurt, like my toe, started hurting, as they should have been all along.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 12:06 PM

Mrrzy, it's always something, isn't it? I had to look up glass chillum, so that pretty much means I can't help you with that. Reminded me of a rainstorm decades ago in NY City - walking with a friend in Greenwich Village when the heavens opened. Approaching us on the sidewalk were two foot-patrol police officers. As the rain hit we all darted through the nearest business doorway and found ourselves standing in a beautifully set up head shop. Everyone was kind of surprised. I don't remember how long we stayed but I'm sure the cops left first.

New Internet provider set up this week, went through the fuss of installation and declining the offer of help (and sales pitch for bundled stuff) from the associate who arrives partway through the installation. I set up online bills and auto pay to lower the price by $10 a month - and the first bill arrived via email full price. A week into the plan I have to call and badger the billing department. That is probably why they give you a $100 gift card as a thank you for switching - it covers all of the nonsense in that first bill.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 11:45 AM

I got to dance in the sunshine for a couple of hours yesterday, in a parking lot where I randomly ran into a group playing old-timey music! Guitars acoustic and electric, fiddle, bass, lap steel guitar, ukelele, drumset, and the lap player also fiddled, and sometimes there was song. I was surprised at how many people just walked by, but a few stopped, mostly with kids, and only one other person danced. The icing on the cake was the fellow-dancer telling me about a dance coop, so I can go dance 3 times a week when I would never go *exercise* woot!

So last night I broke another *bloody* toe! Can you believe it!

It IS always something.

Meanwhile things are moving along in therapy about basics. Social behavior is a wave, not a particle. But in solitude, the particle has to actually exist. I do the wave fine; I have serious trouble with the particle part. We are working on that.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 11:55 AM

So sorry about your toe! Good news about a dancing venue. Not sure about the particle and wave bit - it sounds like a physics problem. Rearrange some of the letters and it's a psych problem. Good luck with either one.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 06:55 PM

Anagrams are therapy too!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 07:24 PM

Kind of lost me, too, with the wave versus particle question.
I'm more of a which-way-is-the-wind-blowing person, I guess.
Sorry you have another broken toe,
but glad that so much else is going so well,
from the hats to the adult children.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Nov 24 - 07:57 PM

Wave particle: 2 people together do not behave as either does alone. For instance, in conversation with someone, one speaker pauses, the other nods, then the first talker goes on. When talking to yourself, you don't pause for the nod from the audience. And if you pause and don't get the nod, it feels as if you are not being listened to.

Social behavior is a wave between the individuals being social with each other, while solitary behavior can be a particle.

Apparently, when I am alone, I cease to exist *to myself* - I can only be *me* in the context of other people.

What my shrink noticed was, as I was describing my day, that I only use the word "I" when with others. When by myself, passive voice gets used a lot, or at least use objects rather than myself as the subject of my verb phrases.

I have always had issues with being ignored, or left out... well, if I don't exist unless attention is being paid to me, by someone else, no wonder.

Sigh. Years more therapy.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Nov 24 - 10:20 PM

Rereading - objects other than myself are the subject. Sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 02:31 PM

Since the question was asked,
I"m spending Thanksgiving in treatment along with a number of other patients here.
We'll enjoy a small festive dinner (we sign up for it in advance) from the treatment dining/kitchen staff.

Mrrzy, the wave/particle explanation helps a lot.
Sounds like you have a good therapist, as well.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 08:27 PM

Indeed. You have a good team, too, it seems.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 06:56 PM

I am now on the waiting list for the retirement community.
The waiting list could take months or as much as a year,
so it had sense to go ahead and get on it already.
A deposit and paperwork were required, which I supplied.
I asked for, and was given, a copy of the packet for new residents.
There's a lot in there, including the standard agreement,
which reads like a rental lease in many respects.
I will have to study it all. But I have time.

The part that was new and different was all about provisions for death:
tell us where your will is and who the executor is,
and something about a power of attorney, and more besides.

For those who pay attention to such things,
Mercury is about to go retrograde through much of December.
Schedules, communications, and electronics tend to go haywire then.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 07:40 PM

Good to know about the electronics, Keb - I'm getting a head start on that retrograde bit. Having your paperwork in order and people knowing where to find it is a good idea for all of us.

Interesting insights about self and other people, Mrrzy. The flip side of that would be those of us trying to figure out when to nod and when to stop talking or when to jump into a conversation. When the part of the transaction that is clearest is the "I" part and trying to grok others. (Not letting Musk own that word; it has been around much longer than Twitter).

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 22 Nov 24 - 08:48 AM

It may predate Agent X himself, Stilly: "grok" is in my first-edition copy of The New Hacker's Dictionary, and in its source document, the Jargon File*, which goes back in various guises to the 1960s. I decline to comment further on Agent X, as I've more respect for my digestion.

* I used to promote that at work as "How to understand your friendly neighbourhood MaJoC".

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Nov 24 - 09:42 PM

Excellent therapist, indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Nov 24 - 10:12 PM

Google Ngrams gives me Strangers in a Strange Land as a result. 73 pages matching "grok" in this book.

After the computer UPS exploded two nights ago (wasn't Keb on target with her astrological warning!) I've replaced it and set up the computer and equipment again (there was a small explosion and fire but nothing damaged and the old unit is out in the driveway still).

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Nov 24 - 09:26 PM

Please tell me everybody knows that grok is from Stranger in a Strange Land.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Nov 24 - 10:43 PM

I always thought it was - but the Ngram search was to confirm what I thought. :)

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 27 Nov 24 - 09:05 AM

I concede: it took a bit of digging (the shelves in our e-scriptorium* suffer from chronic books-behind-books syndrome), but The New Hacker's Dictionary acknowledges Strangers in a Strange Land as the origin of grok. It's between gritch and grunge.

--- Rats: now my first-edition copy of TNHD is getting even more loose-leaf. Perfect binding isn't.

* For completeness, Herself has a Sulkarium upstairs.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 27 Nov 24 - 11:23 AM

Please tell me everybody knows that grok is from Stranger in a Strange Land.

I had never come across the word until I read it in this thread.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Nov 24 - 11:30 AM

Thanks Doug - I’d never heard of it either! Still don’t have a clue what it is…

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Nov 24 - 02:44 PM

To save MaJoC having to pull out the book again, I'll dip into Wikipedia:

Grok (/'gr?k/) is a neologism coined by American writer Robert A. Heinlein for his 1961 science fiction novel Stranger in a Strange Land. While the Oxford English Dictionary summarizes the meaning of grok as "to understand intuitively or by empathy, to establish rapport with" and "to empathize or communicate sympathetically (with); also, to experience enjoyment",[1] Heinlein's concept is far more nuanced, with critic Istvan Csicsery-Ronay Jr. observing that "the book's major theme can be seen as an extended definition of the term."[2] The concept of grok garnered significant critical scrutiny in the years after the book's initial publication. The term and aspects of the underlying concept have become part of communities such as computer science.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Nov 24 - 09:28 PM

Grok the fullness would be a good name for a band...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Nov 24 - 11:32 PM

Staying afloat - these days it is pitching between keeping occupied with daily activities and having silent moments when the stunning results of the recent election can erode one's sense of well-being. Of finding productive ways to put one foot in front of the other that will add up to meaningful contributions to the next election.

Tough holiday season. Trump is acting like a president even without having been sworn in yet, and there is no shutting him up. He knows how to push the media buttons. There are few times one roots for the criminal class, but if only the kid in Butler, PA, had been a better shot. I wouldn't even wish that on Nixon or Reagan, but Trump - a whole new ballgame.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 29 Nov 24 - 05:04 AM

Grok the fullness would be a good name for a band...

If I hadn't already looked it up in the dictionary, and was asked to guess what the verb 'to grok' meant, I would have come up with something quite unpleasant. As in:-

"He had so much to drink that he came home and grokked all over the bathroom floor."

By my definition, 'Grok the fullness' would have to be a punk rock band.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 30 Nov 24 - 10:13 AM

Going by the confusion, clearly the meaning of grok, unlike that of glark, can't be glarked from context.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Nov 24 - 01:40 PM

The thread on the US election is a nice safe place
for people to do some much needed venting about
the troubling election results.

But I'm not going to post to that thread.
I'm just posting here to say that
I find the polarization wearying and pessimistic
and honestly don't find the words strong enough for the negativity of it.

I'm going to cope with it all by practicing what detachment is possible,
and thinking of the two sides, not as right versus wrong,
but that both are human, fallible, and need healing and grace.
I'm sorry if that sounds sanctimonious,
and it isn't that I'm any better than the people venting.
There just has to be a more humane way to live with each other
once one gets exhausted from the fight.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 04 Dec 24 - 06:08 PM

I'm staying in the town of Stockbridge
which is about to have the Today show descend upon Main Street.
It's about recreating a scene from Norman Rockwell.
I'm doing my best to stay clear of the whole shoot.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Dec 24 - 07:27 PM

Keb, I like your observations of Nov. 30. Good post.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Dec 24 - 04:10 PM

Now lemme tell you about the town of Stockbridge, Massachussetts.

-Arlo Guthrie, somewhere in Alice's Restaurant

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Dec 24 - 04:45 PM

The TODAY show has been and gone a couple of days now.
I was passing by when they were shooting,
and heard this huge cheer by all the people in front of the cameras.
Lucky for them, the weather cooperated, good conditions.
Today is the last day of the Norman Rockwell act,
tomorrow Main Street will be back to normal.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Dec 24 - 08:30 PM

Keb, totz fun!

Normal, for Main St...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Dec 24 - 06:50 AM

Keb, your observations of Nov. 30 assume that other people do things according to your own motivations and thoughts. This is a normal bias, but it does not reflect reality very well.

For example, if you assume an extraterrestrial has the same motivations and thoughts as we do, you would probably be misled.
The same bias happens when looking at another unusual culture.

It is practically a miracle, like falling in love when communication works perfectly. When friends are different species the bonds seem extra special like a man and dog, a gorilla and a kitten or a horse and its goat friend.

No the world does not share our thoughts such as

What the world needs now is love sweet love
no not just for one but for everyone...

peace on earth, good will to men.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Dec 24 - 07:16 PM

Well, I now have the title to my new[er] car.
All i need now are the replacement license plates,
until then there is a paper license tag in the rear window.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Dec 24 - 03:14 PM

Two choral concerts down, one to go.
We've had two snowstorms here,
and each was followed by a warming period that melted all the snow.
This melting is happening now, after a few inches of snow last night.
At least we are getting some precipitation,
the rain is badly needed as we are in the severe drought category.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Dec 24 - 05:42 PM

It snowed for 10 mn one day, lovely