BS: Anthems-are-us

Subject: Anthems-are-us
From: Little Dorrit
Date: 16 Nov 99 - 04:43 PM

Having heard 'God save the Queen' several times over Rememberance weekend, it never fails to astound me why we should have such an appalling song to celebrate our nation state. We should definitely be allowed to vote in a new anthem to celebrate the millenium. Does anyone feel that way about their own anthem and have they an alternative solution?

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: kendall
Date: 16 Nov 99 - 05:07 PM

the Star Spangled Banner is an awful song. It celebrates war, and the tune is an abomination. It was taken from an old English drinking song. Yes, it's time for a change, to...say.. America the beautiful. Even that brings up a problem, but, it would be hard to sing ..Untited States of America... blast that Italian Johnnie come lately any way!! (Amerigo Vesputchi)

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Mbo
Date: 16 Nov 99 - 05:43 PM

Hey! Lay off my pisansos! I find NOTHING wrong with The Star Spangled Banner. It is perfectly fine. And I LIKE war songs! I prefer Flower of Scotland over Land of Light. Songs describing purple mountains and winding rivers are BORIIING! Every country's got those. It's the people and their history that makes a country, not their topographical features.

--Mbo

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Penny S.
Date: 16 Nov 99 - 05:44 PM

I go for "When wilt thou save the people, O God of mercy, when?"

One of the social anthems my mother liked and wanted sung at her funeral, but then decided against.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Nov 99 - 06:25 PM

This Land Is Your Land

Peace We Ask of thee Oh River

I'd Like To Teach the World To Sing! **HeeHeeHawHaw! Gotcha!

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Bugsy
Date: 16 Nov 99 - 07:58 PM

I was born in England in the 40's and whenever the subject of the National Anthem came up in our house it was always agreed that "Pomp and Circumstance" (Land of Hope and Glory) should replace "God Save The Queen".

I have Lived in Australia for the last 27 years and our National Anthem is "Advance Australia Fair". I personally like the words and the tune, but there is a trend toward having "Waltzing Matilda" as our anthem. Although why any country would want a song about a tramp who steals a sheep and then when apprehended by the police, drowns himself in a pond rather than face the music, escapes me entirely.

I must admit I am not really enamoured with "The Star Spangled Banner".

Cheers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 16 Nov 99 - 08:28 PM

Actually the Star-Spangled Banner doesn't sound too bad if one sings the tune in strict 1-2-3 time, 18th-century style, rather than with the schmalzed-up 19th century interpretation singers usually give it.

Still, the "Battle Hymn of the Republic" is better music than "Star Spangled Banner", and pretty good words too.

Then there's always Billings' "Chester".

I thought England had that Blake Poem with "bring me my chariot of fire" and "Jerusalem in England's green and pleasant land." That won't do for the whole UK, though.

Should "Great green gobs of greasy grimy gopher guts" be the international English-speaking children's anthem ?

T.

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Nov 99 - 08:32 PM

TBird! I haven't heard that since my kids were little and not thought of it as long! Made me smile and grimace all at the same time! Thanks, kat

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Bugsy
Date: 16 Nov 99 - 08:40 PM

On reflection, I think what turns me off the "Star Spangled Banner" is the fact that whenever I have heard it sung in recent years, the singer either starts the song too high for his/her vocal capabilities or faffs around with the tune and engages in vocal gymnastics that would wreck ANY song.

Cheers

bugsy

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: kendall
Date: 16 Nov 99 - 08:44 PM

Hey mbo have you ever tried to sing the Star Spangled Banner? I still say it sucks as a national anthem

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Mike,NZ
Date: 16 Nov 99 - 10:57 PM

Most national anthems are boring to their nationals, take ours...'God defend New Zealand' In English sounds like a funeral dirge, take the Maori version and it sounds wonderful. Trouble here is with 2 official languages in the country, drop one off and ww3 breaks out!

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 16 Nov 99 - 11:20 PM

I think it's very fitting that our anthem originated as a pub song. After the War of 1812 we all needed a good stiff drink- hell, damn redcoats burned our capitol! It took three coats of paint to get the White House white again. I like the image of the tattered flag of our country illuminated by the bombs and rockets. However, I'm with Bugsy when it comes to Whitney Houston and other so-called divas who feel that they have to use thirty-six individual notes to sing "and the home of the brave." I'm not a complete purist,though. I liked Jimi Hendrix's psychedelic version quite a bit (maybe because he included all of the bombs burting in air).

Le Marsellaise is probably my favorite anthem,especially when Bogart and Bergman sang it at Rick's Cafe, much to the chagrin of the Nazis who were trying to monopolize the piano."Oh Canada" is also good, but I can't get used to hearing it at the start of a baseball game when the Jays or Expos play. Seems un-American.

Sincerely,LEJ

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 16 Nov 99 - 11:22 PM

Ya might check out the "So. Initiatives" thread. Anthems can be as much an emotional issue as flags to some. Personally I can't stand "Oh Canada". I know these songs were written many years ago but Sheesh! Most of these lyrics are just flat out awful. A question. Has any country dispensed with an anthem solely because they thought it's quality was sub-par and written a new one. I'm afraid that anthems with their constant references to god and allah and whoever, strike me the same as football players who score "touchdowns for jesus". Sorry, guess I'm just a Philistine.
Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From:
Date: 17 Nov 99 - 03:49 AM

Well, Newfoundland has a beautiful one...the last verse just makes it perfect....

It was written by Sir Cavendish Boyle (Doyle?) who was a governor or some such title...

Here are the words: (from memory)

When ??? thy pine clad hills and summer spreads her handWhen silvren voices tune thy rills we love the smiling land We love thee we love thee we love thee smiling land When spreads a cloak of shimmering white at winter's stern command Through shortened day and star-filled night we love thee frozen land We love thee we love thee we love thee frozen land

When blinding stormclouds fret thy shores and wild waves lash thy strand When spindrifts swirl and tempests roar we love thee windswept land We love thee we love thee we love thee windswept land

As loved our fathers so we love where once they stood we stand Their prayer we raise to heaven above God guard thee Newfoundland God guard thee God guard thee God guard thee Newfoundland

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: kendall
Date: 17 Nov 99 - 08:22 AM

I'm with Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Mbo
Date: 17 Nov 99 - 08:59 AM

Well! I guess I can't even attempt to change the people around here. You all can be atheists or whatever, but I when national anthems have religious references. Maybe unsuitable for a US anthem, since this country was founded by Deists and other non-religious people, and as I can see, there's still a lot of you out there. You can call ME a Philistine, but I always liked the German National Anthem (Deutschland Uber Allles) before the Nazis used it as their anthem. It was written by Franz Josef Haydn, after all! I guess what everyone wants is a anthem not about war, not about people, not about God, and easy to sing. How about Twinkle Twinkle Little Star? How would you react if we changed the anthem to "God Bless The U.S.A" by Lee Greenwood. Oops! Mentioned a certain religion's deity--can't use that! Maybe I shouldn't reply to this thread, I'm getting all riled up. Sorry. I am by no means a religious zealot, but I don't like to see anyone's religion slammed because some folks don't follow it...

--Mbo (I tried singing the National Anthem this morning, and it is easyyyy! Especially if it's sung by a baritone register)

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: paddymac
Date: 17 Nov 99 - 10:11 AM

Well, to suggest that most folks (especially "folkies") are not overly enamoured with anthems as a musical genre is probably as close to a core cultural truth as we can get. The problem, however, is how to replace them, and with what?

Thus far in this thread, the brilliant collective consciousness of 'catters has produced these recommendations: (1)This Land Is Your Land, (2) Peace We Ask Of Thee Oh River, (3)I'd Like To Teach The World To Sing, (4)Waltzing Matilda, (5) Battle Hymn of the Republic, (6) Chester, (7)Bring Me My Chariot of Fire, (8)Jerusalem in England's Green and Pleasant Land, (9) Great Green Gobs of Geasy Grimy Gopher Guts, (10)Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star, and (11) God Bless The USA.

I am aghast that we haven't yet recommended that great universalist song that most of us (well, a whole lot of us anyway)love to hate the most. So, I hereby humbly suggest, for the greater good of all mankind, the absolutely inimicable (thankfully) "It's A Small World After All". *BG*

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Mbo
Date: 17 Nov 99 - 10:17 AM

Great suggestion, paddymac! It's politically correct, non-offensive to anyone, and the words are really easy to remember! By the way, if you want to discover the true beauty of our National Anthem, forget the music and read the complete poem by Francis Scott Key. It will fill you with patriotic pride! It's not Key's fault they chose "Sons of Anacreon" as a tune!

--Mbo (Raghupati Raghava Raja Ram...)

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: aldus
Date: 17 Nov 99 - 10:21 AM

I don't dislike the American national anthm, it is just that most people sing it so badly. Also, I have a soft spot for The Battle Hymn of The Republic ". I think it is a lovely tune and has grand lyrics. "oh Canada" ought to be replaced by "The Maple Leaf Forever" which is a splendid tune although the words may need a bit of revision. As for Waltzing Matilda...I am obviously not an Australian..but if an anthem is supposed tp evoke the spirit of a place.. I thing Matilda evokes Australia...for me at least. "Jerusalem" should replace God savd e The Queen. That's my bit.

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 17 Nov 99 - 11:01 AM

Now look Mbo, no offence meant. These were PERSONAL opinions. Both Kendall and I are are pretty decent sorts. I'm sure there is some kind of big Kahuna out there keeping the planets in line, I just find it incredibly difficult to believe that: A. He/She/it bares any resemblance to all those paintings. (especially the ones that look like Brad Pitt with long hair and a beard) and B.: That this diety would favour one country (or football team, or political party, or race of people) over another. Strictly on the basis of the tune, I like (and learned to play) The Russian anthem. If I knew what the words were I'd probably find them just "as over the top". Probably filled with "meadows, mountains, and heroic manly soldiers out protectin' the wimmenfolk".

Rick (not following his Daddy's advice, to never discuss politics and religion!)

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Little Dorrit
Date: 17 Nov 99 - 11:04 AM

Interesting thoughts everyone-personally I have always liked the Star Spangled Banner . I think I would like to replace God save the Queen with something less sombre -possibly monty Python's - Always look on the bright side of life- but this may be awkward on occasions like State funerals!

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: sophocleese
Date: 17 Nov 99 - 11:16 AM

Anthems seem a strange thing to me. They are weighted with patriotic significance, often badly expressed. They are supposed to be moving but people are expected to react in a limited and particular, kneejerk, fashion to them. They attempt to encapsulate a spirit, several peoples, varying environments, one religion, and histories of various lengths in one song. They should be medleys instead of single tunes.

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: kendall
Date: 17 Nov 99 - 12:01 PM

Why cant we have an anthem like Finlandia? Its beautiful, and, singable.

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Penny S.
Date: 17 Nov 99 - 12:10 PM

Problem with Jerusalem is that it's lost it's radical meaning, Land of Hope and Glory that it belongs to one party rather than all now. Anyway, there might be objections to "Wider still and wider, shall thy bounds be set."

Our tune is not bad (that's why others have found it useful, I suppose), but the words could do with updating. The 1920's attempts at anthems have good sentiments ( for me) but some wouldn't go along with them. One was to the imperial Russian anthem - there's a great tune demanding words again.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Margo
Date: 17 Nov 99 - 12:34 PM

Hey, Star Spangled Banner is only difficult if you're vocally challenged! :o) (elbow in the ribs) Actually, you're right about it not being very easy to sing. It's a good audition piece; you can really find out what a person can do in the way of range and breath control.

Personally, I'd like to see God Bless America as the national anthem. Short and sweet, very singable.

Margo

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Penny S.
Date: 17 Nov 99 - 12:56 PM

What's the tune to God Bless America?

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Bert
Date: 17 Nov 99 - 01:12 PM

The anthem that I would choose for ALL countries of the world is "Beer glorious Beer" ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Mbo
Date: 17 Nov 99 - 02:19 PM

Has anyone ever heard the Vatican City's national anthem? It's great! Beautiful..sweeping...majestic...and full of that good old fashioned Catholic pomp and circumstance (as a Catholic I can fully appreciate it.)! BTW if anyone has Encarta 98, you can listen midis of every country in the world's national anthem. Lots o' fun!

--Mbo (sorry if I insulted anyone...)

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 17 Nov 99 - 03:53 PM

Mbo, nobody gets insulted here. You're a treasure. I'm gonna check out the Vatican one.

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Nov 99 - 05:33 PM

Mbo, I knew there was a reason to put that little discy thing in the box.... But just work out how many actually sing their song to the tune of God save the king - including you lot the other side of the pond. Maybe we should all have the same tune and sing our own words....

Personally, I tend not to recognise anthems when played and just keep right on sitting down. Can't understand why you have to stand to listen to a bad soprano wobble on for 20 mins in 4 different keys to a song that no one wants to hear. And please don't anyone suggest 'I vow to thee my country', the tune (Thaxted if you prefer the original folk version, Jupiter if you like Holst) is syrupy, sacchariny and detestable, the words are worse!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Penny S.
Date: 17 Nov 99 - 05:43 PM

Liz, I totally agree on I vow to thee - but not because it's icky! That first verse promises to the country what is firstly God's and then family's and friends', and without question! The second only yearns for heaven because it is like England.

It is a snare.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Llanfair
Date: 17 Nov 99 - 06:05 PM

I love singing "Jerusalem". Specially when driving around the hills. A very inspiring anthem, and it doesn't mention the royal family. Hwyl, Bron.

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Nov 99 - 06:38 PM

"God Save The Queen" masquerades as a "British National Anthem" but anytime there's an international between England and Scotland or Wales it becomes clear it's not, because there really isn't any such thing as a British nation.

It's a rotten song anyway. The fact that half the countries in the globe use the same tune just demonstarates there's a lot of awful national anthems around.

"Jerusalem" would be perfect for an English national anthem, the words are great poetry, it doesn't insult anyone, it's not namby pamby, has a sense of purpose about it, and it's got a glorious tune for singing. And it's still about a mkind of revoluution.

Alternatively, "Speed the Plough" or the "British Grenadiers", with new words.

I've always thought "The Star Spangled Banner" is a great song, even when I've been rioting against the American giovernment. It's got a touching vulnerability about it, if played and sung right. It's a song from an America that was relatively small and weak, and losing a war against a mighty imperial power. But there's a lot to say for going back to "Yankee Doodle" which I always thought was the American National Anthem when I was growing up.

The only National Anthem that I've ever known people to stand up for in a folk session is "The Soldiers Song."

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Mbo
Date: 17 Nov 99 - 10:54 PM

What do you all think about Sean Keane's "Song of Healing" as an anthem?

--Mbo

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: sophocleese
Date: 17 Nov 99 - 10:59 PM

"Bring me my bowl of cheeriooooos..."

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Nov 99 - 06:10 AM

Did you know that 'Jerusalem' goes very nicely to the tune of 'Linden Lea', and vice versa, although William Barnes' words do lose a little something in the translation.

I've never found anything that goes nicely to God save the King.....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: bassen
Date: 18 Nov 99 - 08:49 AM

Since none of the other norwegians have posted to this thread, I'll add a little northern european skew to the contents.

I grew up with the Star Spangled Banner as my anthem, then I moved to Norway at the age of 17, so I had to learn an anthem (why do I keep wanting to type anathema?) called "Ja, vi elsker", "Yes, we love", not bloodthirsty or particularly pompous and very little deity/ies (only in the 3rd verse which mostly never gets sung). The first verse goes like this in my rough translation:

Yes we love this country
As it rises rugged and weatherbeaten
From the sea with its thousands of homes
Love it and think of
Our fathers and mothers
And the saga night that sends
Dreams to our earth

Not pompous, but I'm open to any suggestions as to what constitutes a "saga night"...we sure don't know.

The first few bars of the melody are identical with "Deck the halls" up to the second syllable of "holly". Ja, vi elsker goes up again from there, instead of descending into the falalalalas...Singing the anthem was forbidden during the German occupation; people sang it spontaneously and endlessly on May 8 1945 when the Germans surrendered. I'm definitely no nationalist, but when the anthem is played, I think of my father who fought the Germans in 1940 and was arrested by the Gestapo later on for hiding jewish orphans, my uncles and cousins who were merchant mariners in the north Atlantic convoys, and I am respectful.

I think that whatever power an anthem has is derived from individual associations and in that way is no different from any other song. It's just that, given the function of anthems, you hear them alot more often than, say Ella Speed or Barbry Allen, an whatever small virtue they may have as songs gets worn out. Personally, I'd much rather hear (and sing) Ella Speed than any national anthem.

Rick, I guess this belongs in that "songs that make you drop everything thread" but I'll say it here: my whole musical life took a radical left turn when I as a 14 year old surfer gremmie in So.Cal. heard Leadbelly/Paul H. Mason play Ella Speed...that song really changed my (musical) life...

bassen

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: bassen
Date: 18 Nov 99 - 09:11 AM

whoops, that should read Leadbelly/Paul Mason Howard, sorry.

bassen

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Nov 99 - 09:50 AM

I just can't get into anthems. I'll check out some of the ones here but I've been watching Olympic coverage for years and I think they all bite. The comment above re: flags, anthems, etc. is, to me, quite correct. But if you need to have an anthem, as apparently most still do, it needs to be something people like to sing, can sing, and makes them feel good. I'm a lousy singer and the Banana is just ridiculous to attempt. Personally, I only sing the last two words---Play Ball. And damn if I don't hate it when you Canadjuns are in a ball game. By the time we dispense with the anthems, I'm out of Hot Dog money and three players have been traded. Not to mention the fact that the peanut guy wouldn't sell me any nuts while this concert was going on.

It would be nice if the songs for countries and states and the like were fun to sing and made you happy. I'd just as soon see them go away though. And... I would also like to see Alma Maters be loaded into the Howitzer and blasted to bullshit heaven too. Talk about things that suck the valves out of a small block Chevy......I went to the only college I know that has the verses to the Alma Mater written in the relative minor of the chorus. Nothing like singing something in a minor key to make you feel good about the school!!! It probably didn't help that we had a week long orientation where we sang all three verses and three choruses three times or more a day. Keericed!!! I still remember the whole thing...and I hate it.

Why is it so necessary to have a national, state, provincial, county, or whatever, song anyway? We have here in the US carried this crappola to the "enth degree." We all have a state motto, flag, song (I think Tennessee is up to 5 now including "Rocky Top"), flower, bird, tree, color, grass, drink, food, insect, snake, rock, soil......Hey if those last ones seem like a joke, they're NOT!!! In Ohio we voted the "Black Racer" as the state snake although there was a grassroots movement to have it be the current governor.

And Meebo, its tough to insult anyone on this thread, believe me. With that in mind, I want you to know that my "register" blows hot air up from the furnace in more of an alto than a baritone. Perhaps a different blower would make the Banana sound better to me. I dunno...

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Penny S.
Date: 18 Nov 99 - 11:03 AM

If we're getting local, I believe Sussex has, or had, a fat pink pig, with the motto "wunt be druv", though I think there's a bit of Hampshire which claims it, too. This spirit can be so ingrained that you can't force a Sussex native to do something that they were just going to do anyway before you ordered them to do it.

Penny

PS Oh, and there is, of course, "Sussex born and Sussex bred, strong in the arm and weak in the head" but everyone seems to want that one! Why? PS

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Blackcat2
Date: 18 Nov 99 - 03:04 PM

On Waltzing Martilda: the folk msic ensemble I'm in sings it and enjoys it, but for some reason our leader has us perform it each month at the local homeless shelter at which our church cooks and serves. I still don't know why - you'd think a song about a homeless person who dies wouldn't be what the men want to hear while eating dinner. . .

Anthems - to me intrumentals would be the best - them no one would feel compelled to sing them, there wouldn't be any religious (or lack of) references, etc.

Question for the English, Scottish, Welsh, N. Ireland, etc.: Is God Save the Queen sung prior to all sporting events?

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Nov 99 - 04:22 PM

Only the major ones, like the Rugby World Cup, and then only when it is one British team playing another part of the world. For England v Scotland they would play the National anthem, followed by Swing low, sweet chariot and "Floor o'Scootlan'" The welsh get 'Land of my Fathers' which they consider their national anthem and is far older than any of the other British songs.

Well, I think that's what they do.p

The p is from my daughter who is sitting on my lap as we type.....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Bert
Date: 18 Nov 99 - 04:28 PM

Your daughter just p'd on your lap?

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: kendall
Date: 18 Nov 99 - 04:43 PM

Oh I dunno Spaw, I kinda like.."Lift the steins to dear old Maine"..etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Mbo
Date: 18 Nov 99 - 04:51 PM

You know, my home state of Pennsylvania is the only state without an anthem? A few years ago I tried to write on for it. Ok, go ahead and laugh, but I put lyrics to the J.F. Sousa classic "The Liberty Bell" It sounds really corny now that I look at the lyrics. If anyone wants to see it, I'll be happy to post it for some laughs!

--Mbo

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: John Hindsill
Date: 18 Nov 99 - 08:10 PM

For the USA anthem---America The Beautiful.
Alernately---This Land Is Your Land

I am not Canadian, but I really like "O' Canada."

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: gervase
Date: 19 Nov 99 - 11:29 AM

I've always had a soft spot for the Internationale. I realised the Labour Party had reached rock bottom when I tried to gee up a session at one of the Celtic nights at conference in Brighton in St. Tony's first year as leader and not one bugger knew the words. Mind you, no-one knew Union Miners either. Ho hum. Perhaps the best "hairs up on the back of the neck" anthem is the ANC song, Nkosi sikelel' iAfrika. I can't hear that without getting terribly blubbery. So why the blue blazes there's a move to ditch it in favour of some miscegenated amalgam of an Afrikaaner's dirge and a Xhosa hymn I have no idea. Too "political", I suppose in these days of reconciliation. Sorry - end of rant.

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 19 Nov 99 - 11:42 AM

Oh Gervase, I didn't realise you had such a soft spot for 'The International', I know quite a lot of the words, next time, we'll do it together....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: Little Dorrit
Date: 19 Nov 99 - 03:45 PM

Blackcatz: God save the queen is invariably sung at international sporting events except occassionally at Rugby union matches where Land of Hope and Glory has been sung. England always retain the National Anthem whereas Scotland Northern Ireland and Wales sing their individual anthems -I have absolutely no idea why there is no definitive English anthem. since I firmly believe that having demolished the House of Lords by the removal of 600 plus hereditary peers- that the Royal Family's days are well and truly numbered (about time too)-we should give serious thought to a replacement.

Subject: RE: BS: Anthems-are-us
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Nov 99 - 05:55 PM

That's it - House of Lords - Iolanthe - Gilbert and Sullivan - Pirates of Penzance.

There's the answer:
He is an Englkishman
For he himself has said it
And it's greatly to his credit
That he is an Englishman

For he might have been a Roosian
A French or Turk or Proosian
Or perhaps Italian
But in spite of all temptations
to belong to other nations
He remains an Englishman!