MotH--from Murdoch

Subject: RE: MotH--from Murdoch
From: Peace
Date: 03 Oct 08 - 12:08 AM

Thanks, Ron. (I know where your heart is, and that maybe you wouldn't support it never once crossed my mind.) The lyrics need tweaking, but that's for later.

Bob, I gotta say maybe he's right and maybe he isn't. Far as I am concerned, MySpace and Youtube are over-rated as promo devices. Nice and all that, but that's because the stuff is free to folks. Free is easy to get rid of. People want free. But I don't get 'free' at the supermarket or music store. No offense meant to you. When shit still requires e-mails and letters because so many 'people of influence' are too busy to even look (and I can understand that) at what's available for free, then them wanting a CD to play on a show just ain't in the cards.

And, I have send stuff to three companies. Two fairly small (in a relative sense) and one fairly large. Not one of the three has bothered to respond. Not a kiss my ass, PFO, suck rocks--NOthing. So I suppose deplorable manners goes along with the business. (BTW, I was given permission by each of the companies to send them a CD.)

In my world, it matters little how many loadings are taking place on Youtube or MySpace. They are successful because they are free. Not because they are good mechanisms for sales or exposure, imo. Of course, I could be wrong.

Subject: RE: MotH--from Murdoch
From: bankley
Date: 03 Oct 08 - 07:52 AM

I had a friend who was a really fine author, among many other things, he once wrote a 1200 page book/CD-Rom called 'The Encylopedia of Survival" and also 'Surviving Terrorism'... which became quite popular in places like Montana.. anyhow, he also wrote a lot of short stories and articles... some were published, in 'Hustler', (The World History of Hooking), 'Ladies Home Journal', 'Redbook' etc... great sense of humour... shortly before he died he showed me a folder of all the rejection letters that he rec'd from diverse companies and publishers.... over 120 in all... he intended to turn this material into yet another book.... he was truly funny... I learned a lot from him, mostly to just keep plugging away and not take it too personally.... oh yeah, this is the same man that was awarded the Meritorious Servive Medal by JFK for helping diffuse the Cuban missile crisis... another funny story...involving lots of Vodka, Marlboro smokes and Russian Officers..

The best place to sell CDs is still at gigs... so lots of luck with nailing down some quality 'live' work in the not too distant.. The cyber-tools are useful in that respect....

Subject: RE: MotH--from Murdoch
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Oct 08 - 08:59 AM

Bruce, I thought you'd like to know that I put a copy of the CD in the Idaho Library Association's intellectual freedom auction yesterday.

It brought USD 35.00.

Subject: RE: MotH--from Murdoch
From: maeve
Date: 03 Oct 08 - 09:05 AM

Wow! That's great, Rapaire.

Subject: RE: MotH--from Murdoch
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 03 Oct 08 - 09:11 AM

Hi Kids: Yep...I think we are all taking our best guesses as to what the direction will be. But I believe that PERSISTENCE IS OMNIPOTENT. Personally my "emails sent count" is nearing 40,000...Nutsoid maybe. But that technique has gotten me airplay in over 80 countries. Stations ask ME if they can play my songs. And you know I only got 2 up right now. 10,700+ MySpace friends and 5050+ plays on YouTube. I KNOW that when I record more songs, I have the network to channel people into my digital distribution sites. Next goal, a film on "The Ghost..." and then, a real album.

My old College friend, Ron McLarty("Memory of Running", "Art in America", "Traveller", "Sex in the City", "Spencer for Hire", etc.) had 9 novels and numerous plays written over a 38 year period. It wasn't until Stephen King saw "Memory of Running" that good stuff started to happen. Ron can now use money for toilet paper...Well almost...But he's hung in there for 38 YEARS...An overnight success!

And Bruce, I agree witcha, some of the people in the industry are schpockoras...But there's a bunch of good hearts in there too...Ya just gotta find 'em. And a firefighter just keeps on keepin' on right? Go Bro Go...Every day above grass is a GOOD day!

OOPS...It's 9A.M. and the Senorita just called to tell me she has a day off...So we're off to a Mexican restaurant downtown for some Tortilla Soup. And let me tell yas, she makes just the BEST coffee, from expresso! Life is good...bob

Subject: RE: MotH--from Murdoch
From: Azizi
Date: 03 Oct 08 - 09:13 AM

Bruce, as you know,I'm neither a musician, nor a recording vocalist, nor do I aspire to be a musician or a performing vocalist. Furthermore, I have never held any paid or volunteer position in the music world or in the public relations field. I am "just" a person who likes various types of music. I am also a person with a curious mind who finds the subject of the changing world of marketing music interesting from an intellectual standpoint. And I'm a person who has a friend who is a singer songwriter, musician who I want to see do well in this business because he is my friend, and because I believe his music is very worthy of being heard by others.

Bruce, I appreciate your response to my question about whether you had an agent or a business manager. But you didn't answer my question about what folks can do besides purchase your CD, and visit your YouTube clips, your website, and your MySpace page.

From my position of being on the outside looking in at your quest to break into this business again, it seems to me that one thing that I and other well meaning people can do-and have done-is to continue to offer you encouragement to keep on keepin on. And it seems to me that another thing that well meaning folks who know you or who know of you can do-and I'm certain have done-is to offer you suggestions.

Of course, you probably will,and probably should, discard 9/10s {oh okay, maybe 1/2} of the suggestions that I and other people make. But some of these suggestions may be helpful to you in the short or the long run.

I'm sure that I don't need to remind you that you wrote this post
in the Bruce Murdoch CD-Matter of the Heart thread that invited people to share any recommendations that they have about your MySpace page. My assumption is that you are also open to suggestions about your music in general or the way that you might further your goal of breaking into the music business again. And I fully recognize that it is your call to accept or reject any or all of suggestions that folks might make since this is your art and your life and your business and not ours.

I gather from your comments that you don't have as much access to the Internet as you previously had. So perhaps this thread can serve as a one stop place for practical {business} or aesthetic suggestions for you-if Mudcat members or Mudcat guest have any such suggestions.

And, Bruce, I'm certain that it won't suprise you to know that I have some suggestions for you. Following my suggestion about one purpose for this thread, here are four suggestions for your consideration:

1. Your feature for purchasing your CD is not prominently displayed on your MySpace page. Also, there's no way that a person can purchase individual songs, but I recognize that may be something that you might not be able to do at this time.   

**

2. The instructions on your MySpace page for purchasing your CD lead to your website. Imo, those instruction aren't forceful enough and those instructions involve too many steps. In addition, imo, those steps for purchasing your CD work against your best interests {that is to say, your wallet}.

Currently your instructions for purchasing your Matters of the Heart CD read:

"If you wish to purchase a CD and do not have Paypal, simply e-mail me at:

irishancestry{at}*gmail.com

I will send you one. You can then send $20 via cheque or postal money order.

Thank you.

* the {at} is substitution for the email symbol
-snip-

First of all, imo, it seems to me that you are downplaying your product. Imo, these instructions are written in such a way that they imply that folks are doing you a big favor by purchasing one copy of your CD. Why for instance did you say "I will send you one" {CD}? It's possible that a person might want to purchase more than one CD, you know. It's not what you say but how you say it. It seems to me that this wording is another example of you being too modest about your music. Folks aren't doing you a favor when they purchase your CD. You have done them a favor and made the world a better place by writing and recording your songs.

Secondly, you're receiving a request from folks {many of whom-I would assume-are unknown to you. Let us say three unknown people send you two separate emails requesting one CDs a piece. According to your instructions, you then have to pay the shipping and handling for those CDs, and then-when those unknown people receive your CD-you have to trust that they will send you the purchase price for those CDs. This is absolutely not good business practice.

I would have liked to have seen some short reviews raving about the CD on that page, and then something like:

Purchase Matter Of The Heart CDs!

Send $20.00* for each CD to:
irishancestry{at}*gmail.com

"Matters of the Heart"- beautiful, heart warming music for all those who are in love or have loved.

*Purchase price includes shipping and handling. Allow up to two weeks for receipt.

-snip-

Moving right along, suggestion #3

3. I'll repeat what I posted on that Bruce Murdoch CD-Matters of the Heart thread: It seems to me that your old songs could help push your new songs.

I'd love it if you could feature one of your old songs {such as "Come Across To You"} and "Rough Night In Jericho"} on
your website-perhaps one at a time, in rotating order. Although there is a write-up on your page that mentions your prior recordings, imo, the point that you previously recorded a number of wonderful songs, isn't as prominently featured as I think it should be on that page. And there's nowhere online where people can hear those great songs. Consequently, some people may reach the erroneous conclusion that you are just starting out as a singer/songwriter.

Bruce, you have fans from the past who are longing to hear your songs again. I hope that there is some way that you can show that you recognise that you have written some songs twenty years ago or more that folks still want to hear today, and that new fans can appreciate if they had opportunities to hear them. It seems to me that you not acknowledging that people still love these songs shows that you don't care as much as you should about your fans, and also seems to me that you are acting like you're starting from stratch in music when you're not.

**

4. Finally, Bruce, your MySpace page has two photos about you in your firefighting role. One of those photos mentions a calendar. It seems to me that you are missing opportunities to do targeted marketing to firefighters/first responders throughout Canada, the USA, and elsewhere. It seems to me that-at the very least-the information about you in your role as firefighter needs to be better integrated {more prominently integrated?} on your MySpace page-and your website-and more information needs to be posted about that calendar. For instance, what is this calendar, who benefits from its purchase {is it the fire station that you volunteer with?} and how do folks purchase that calendar if they are so inclined to do so? It seems to me that a secondary benefit of promoting that calendar, and your role as a volunteer firefighter/first responder would be to promote your music.

-snip-

Again, I'm offering these suggestions to you knowing that you can take them or leave them.

Regardless of your response, I wish you well.

-Azizi

Subject: RE: MotH--from Murdoch
From: maeve
Date: 03 Oct 08 - 09:31 AM

Azizi-

Some good ideas there. I especially like the suggested change for cd orders and your observation regarding the firefighter market.

Everyone needs encouragement, yes.

*************
If we do post ideas here for Bruce to see, and if his time is as constrained as it seems to be, perhaps we can keep points short and sweet. He can contact us if he wants more information.

maeve

Subject: RE: MotH--from Murdoch
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Oct 08 - 09:39 AM

OTH was always shorthand for 'Over the hill' when I were a lad, can't think what the M might stand for though?

JM ¦¬]


[It's BTW of a joke]

Subject: RE: MotH--from Murdoch
From: Azizi
Date: 03 Oct 08 - 10:52 AM

maeve, I agree with your point, and recognize that it's difficult for me to make "short and sweet" comments. But it this case, I felt that I had to give some context to my comments.

Also, among the left out words and other typing errors that I made in that post, there's one sentence that I'll take this opportunity to correct:

"Let us say three unknown people send you three separate emails requesting one CDs a piece"...

Subject: RE: MotH--from Murdoch
From: olddude
Date: 03 Oct 08 - 11:16 AM

I don't know what the answer is, you are all over the web, the music is wonderful I don't get it. I have pushed it and pushed it. I don't understand this business, heck I don't understand much of anything anymore. Every day I hear country songs that are as far from country as a person can get, canned same old same old with carbon copy performers that all look like they were stamped out by a machine. Rap music stars like the country stars that all look the same , sound the same, act the same and have the same lyrics and music with one or two phrases changed. It is because this is what the music industry says we are suppose to like and the only type they offer us as listeners. Someone like you that is refreshing, has truly original compositions has to struggle. I don't get it I never will. If you turned your hat on backwards or wore a cut off jean jacket and cowboy hat or put on 200 lbs of jewelery and decided to give us exactly the same meal we have been eating for the last 20 years then it would burn on the shelf. It is all nuts you see ...
But one thing I have learned in my life, it is impossible to keep talent in check, impossible. Talent will always rise to the top of the pile and no one has more than you.   You know how I feel, you know there is nothing I wouldn't do for you. Keep plugging we will crack this egg I truly believe.

Subject: RE: MotH--from Murdoch
From: maeve
Date: 03 Oct 08 - 11:23 AM

LOL Azizi- Many of us who post here are word people. You should have seen all the examples and explanations I edited OUT of my post. :)

You have some great ideas and a valuable perspective as well, with your non-music business background.

I'm constantly reminding myself that Mudcatters aren't the only people reading what we say here. We hope the "right" pros are interested in searching online to learn more about MotH and its creator Bruce Murdoch.

Your mileage and word count may vary.

Best,

maeve

Subject: RE: MotH--from Murdoch
From: GUEST,BW
Date: 03 Oct 08 - 02:09 PM

I'm in full agreement with Azizi, about every single suggestion she has made.

I'm also in full agreement with 'old dude', in that I too will do all I can, along with, I'm sure, every other poster to this thread, to help Bruce and his music get right back to where they belong.

We're waiting on you, Boss.

*grin*

Subject: RE: MotH--from Murdoch
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Oct 08 - 02:18 PM

Probably the FIRST thing we can all do to help is give the guy a break and and not drain his energy. Not tell him he's behaving badly or give him things he NEEDS to do or even make him feel like he NEEDS to judge our ideas right now. No demands.

Nobody 'hits the big time' by trying on their own, and even those with wanted agents, promoters and handlers fail more than they succeed. I'm positive that's not what Bruce wants anyway.

He needs the right niche, an audience. Get enough people to buy his CDs so he makes enough money to take care of things and keep him doing music. Forget about the 'big...' ['scuse me] 'BIG TIME!!!'

Dude also needs some Jujubes.

And for your reading enjoyment, check out the 'Newsletter Essay' in Harvey Reid's Newsletter:

'Now that they can't make so much and they can no longer monopolize and control what music people are able to find out about-- we are supposed to be sad? I personally can't wait until they all go bankrupt or rush off in search of easier money, which is all they really wanted anyway. (I have hated watching greedy bastards like them pretend to be aesthetes and acting like the music is what matters most.) They have dominated and subverted a sacred thing (music) and made it into a mass-merchandised commodity, dumbed down, plastic-wrapped and odor-free. You would think I was a conspiracy theorist if I told you about the databases they had of every radio station and record store, with fields for the employee's spouses, birthdays and pet's names, so their slimy sweatshops of people with headsets on could call them all day and say "Hi Jim-- how is your wife ___ doing? Little Brianna must be about 3 now? Oh and how did you like the new __ record?"
I don't see real music losing its ability to move people.'

'A musician who makes a video that gets "browsed" is not going to be able to build a career and pay a mortgage based on a single rush of bored people "checking out" their cool web video.'

Subject: RE: MotH--from Murdoch
From: GUEST,bankley in TO
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 12:05 AM

" In these days of instant idols, last week's heroes are left along the way
   We're force-fed for our survival on cotton candy spun up and doled out each day
   So much energy invested in the shifty shady schemes
   While your attention is arrested, tested by some sand in the vaseline"

the opening shot from 'Line' (Insurgent Sun)

Subject: RE: MotH--from Murdoch
From: GUEST,Peace
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 12:38 AM

I am grateful for the wonderful suggestions. However, under NO circumstance will I do a dog and pony show that incorporates being a firefighter. It is something I do and do gladly. I am just one of over 500,000 structure firefighters in North America. Lots of those guys and gals put it on the line to help others. I will NOT use that in terms of my music. And that is that. Period.

This conversation has come up with three people on this thread. It was no yesterday, it is no today and it will be no tomorrow. Please do not be offended. But the answer is still no. If it comes up again I will request the thread be closed. In fact, I do so request. Would a clone please close this and I will not open any others about the CD or me. Thanks all and that's all.

Bruce

Subject: RE: MotH--from Murdoch
From: Peace
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 01:11 AM

"Purchase Matter Of The Heart CDs!

Send $20.00* for each CD to:
irishancestry{at}*gmail.com

"Matters of the Heart"- beautiful, heart warming music for all those who are in love or have loved.

*Purchase price includes shipping and handling. Allow up to two weeks for receipt."

Darned good idea.

Thanks, Azizi.

Subject: RE: MotH--from Murdoch
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 02:15 AM

You're welcome, Bruce.

**
And Bruce, since I'm here, let me also say this:

Either on this thread or another Mudcat thread which someone else may start and not me, I believe that it would be an interesting discussion to explore how singer/songwriters/musicians promote their songs without becoming a "dog and pony show". In other words, what actions and approaches would performers consider to rise or fall to the level of a "dog and pony show".

It seems to me that a performer has to distinquish himself or herself from all the millions of other performers. It also seems to me that one of the reasons why great songs get lost and really bad songs become hits is because of the performer {or those who work for the performer} knows how to market not just the song, but himself or herself.

It seems to me that if you're interested in just marketing your songs to other performers and not also being a singer/performer than you have to find a way to effectively market yourself/. It seems to me that just because a song is good or even great does not mean that the singer/songwriter will be noticed and heard and be successful.

Think about successful singers, movie stars and other performers. Isn't there something about their life or life style or their interests that you know, and which attracts you to them or repels you from them? For instance, Bruce Springsteen has used his working class upbringing in New Jersey to help define him and his music in the public eyes and the public's heart. He advocates for the working class. And he and his band dress in a manner that reflects and reinforce this image.

So what's wrong with that?

Far be it for me to speak for the other two people who I don't know who suggested that you {or those who work for you in a paid or unpaid capacity adopt a purposeful strategy of distinguishing you from other singer/songwriters by calling attention to your role as a volunteer firefighter. But I can speak for myself. I would never suggest that you go out on stage or do photo ops with a firefighter suit on or with a fire helmet on, or with firetrucks in the background, or even with a red shirt on.
I think that would be tacky dog and poney show, and a turn off from people who have a great deal of respect and admiration for firefighters.

However, I do think that it would be a good marketing decision for you, Bruce Murdoch, {or others on your behalf and directed by you} to help define yourself in the public's mind as a person who is a firefighter. To repeat and expand one statement I've made on this thread before-It's not just what you do but how you do it and why you do it..

Imo, informing people that you are a firefigher can be effectively done in such a way that it does not take advantage of that role. And doing so the right way can help to distinguish you from other performers, and can help build good will for you which can carry over to your songs.

Bruce, the Hinton Fire Department was listed among those persons you thanked in the acknowledgements notes on your Matters Of The Heart CD. Furthermore, I presume with your approval, your MySpace webmaster added two photos of you in your firefigher role. There was a caption under one of those photos that briefly referred to that photograph being part of a calendar. I stand by the suggestions that I made about this subject in my previous post to this thread. The bottom line is that I don't think that there is anything wrong with informing people about your role as a firefighter or helping to promote fire safety, or helping to promote that calendar which I understand would help promote that volunteer fire company.

But again, as I've said before on this thread, this is your art, your business, and your life. If you don't consider this an acceptable use of your experiences, than that is your choice. After all, you are the one who will reap the benefits or live with the consequences of your actions and your inactions.

Best wishes,

Azizi

Subject: RE: MotH--from Murdoch
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 02:26 AM

Correction:

It seems to me that if you're interested in just marketing your songs to other performers than it probably isn't as crucial for you to define yourself to & for the public {or whichever segments of the public are your target audiences}. But if your goal is to also be a successful singer/performer, it seems to me that you have to find a way to have a hook, that is to say, you have to find something or things that can be used to effectively define yourself to that public, and then effectively market yourself to those folks you have targeted. It seems to me that just because a song is good or even great does not mean that the singer/songwriter will be noticed and heard and be successful.

Subject: RE: MotH--from Murdoch
From: GUEST,Peace
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 02:33 AM

Thank you. NOW, would a clone PLEASE close this thread?

Thank you to Mudcat and the many folks who have made suggestions and given me encouragement.

Subject: RE: MotH--from Murdoch
From: gnu
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 03:39 AM

What if they don't wanna close this thread?

Subject: RE: MotH--from Murdoch
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 04:27 AM

Don't blame you Bruce, your music has fuck all to do with what else you do in life.
I hate the world's need to put people in a niche, why can't they let you be you, and me be me?
Nope, they gotta say, 'Oh you're 66 you're an old man' or 'Oh you're a Scot and a singer, you must sing Scottish songs'
When they got their own lives straightened out and perfect, then let them come back and start on yours or mine.
Don't think we'll see them again do you?

JM [angry]

Subject: RE: MotH--from Murdoch
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 04:41 AM

Bruce has a pet moth?

Given birth to a moth?

Bruce Murdoch...the lepidopterist of Alcatraz!

Subject: RE: MotH--from Murdoch
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 05:14 AM

Mothballs

Subject: RE: MotH--from Murdoch
From: Peace
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 05:18 AM

I had many questions about that as a youth. My grandmother put them in a wooden chest to keep moths away. I was never ever able to determine how she got them. And having seen many moths, I wondered how they could fly at all with balls that outweighed the moth by several times. Bugs me to this day.

---

Closed per request from Bruce Murdoch.
-Joe Offer-