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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Ebbie Date: 11 Jun 10 - 12:15 AM I, of course, remember the Bhopal catastrophe but this sentence in that link struck me: "The court levied the maximum penalties available under Indian law on the charges before it — that of criminal negligence." In what way did the US dodge its obligations? |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Lonesome EJ Date: 11 Jun 10 - 02:45 AM I find it difficult to conceive of the degree of masochism required to step out in a thread like this and defend BP...and you're usually such a clear-thinking fellow, Richard. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Howard Jones Date: 11 Jun 10 - 05:02 AM The story as it's being reported here is that Obama and other US politicians are giving out the message that the US environment and US jobs have been endangered by a foreign company, and that they're doing so for electoral reasons. Some of our own politicians have taken the hook, others are being more measured in their response. It's probably true that for many here BP still means "British Petroleum" so it's taken as an attack on a British company, even if that's no longer really the case. It also has to be seen in a context where the US appears to view the "special relationship" purely in terms of its own advantage. For example, Britons are being extradited to the US (sometimes for offences which are not illegal here) without the protection of our own courts under a treaty intended for terrorists which the US has refused to ratify, with the effect that US citizens can't be extradited to the UK on similar terms. At the same time the US is happy to call on our help in Iraq and Afghanistan. So we may sometimes appear a bit defensive. Be that as it may, the latest call to stop BP paying dividends is the worst kind of political grandstanding, for these reasons: Firstly, if BP has the resources to pay for the clean-up and its other liabilities (and according to the papers here that's not in question) then whether or not it pays dividends is irrelevant On the other hand, if BP doesn't have sufficient resources, putting further pressure on its already battered share price and devaluing the company further won't help it to raise any additional cash needed Thirdly, who do these politicians think is going to be affected by withholding the dividend? Apart from the effect on share price (which helps no one), it won't be the business, which will be holding on to a large sum of cash. Some of the executives may see their share price linked bonuses fall, but rest assured they won't be going short. No, the people who will be affected will be all those people in the UK and the US who have pension funds, life insurance, investment funds, etc, invested in BP - in other words, you and me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:26 AM Nobody is trying to defend BP in terms of its responsibility for clearing up the mess. What we are saying is that BP has stated very clearly, right from the start, that its intention is to pay for the lot. Q says "only $5000 dollars has been paid out",while we hear that BP has been paying out all small damage claims to affected fishermen and others who have suffered losses. By whose reckoning has the amount paid been only $5000? Who has paid for the hire of containment equipment, for the capping devices, for the services of all the organisations involved, and for the chemicals used to disperse the slicks? I suspect that the only part paid for (pro tem) by anyone other than BP is the shoreline cleaning, and BP have already promised to cover the cost of that. The accident has happened, and nobody can change that fact. BP is taking responsibility for dealing with the aftermath, and doing everything it can to mitigate the disaster. So what is it you US citizens are after?.......REVENGE? How do you gain by the destruction of the very organisation you are relying on to put things right? One comment from the BP interview made a considerable impression on me, and it was this:- ""When the well is plugged and the slicks are dispersed, then we (that is BP) will be spending months, maybe years dealing with the onshore and offshore damage. By that time, all the Media will have gone home"" I think that was fair comment. We will not see Media headlines about BPs efforts to repair the damage because the Media don't much care for good news, DO THEY? Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Richard Bridge Date: 11 Jun 10 - 07:51 AM But moreover, if (and I say "if") it is true that BP directions did cause the original problem, when the US bigmouths were first jumping on the bandwagon that fact (if it be a fact) was not known, and the assumption that it was BP at fault not either of the US corporations was based on nothing more than prejudice. As for BP putting its hands up - you know the standard advice given to defendants before courts with the probity of Judge Jeffries, don't you? It will go easier on you if you admit your guilt (whether you are guilty or not). |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Arthur_itus Date: 11 Jun 10 - 09:11 AM This is worth a read. Hopefully it hasn't been posted already. http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/BP-CEO-John-Napier-Letter-To-President-Barack-Obama-Over-The-Oil-Spill-In-The-Gulf-O |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Ed T Date: 11 Jun 10 - 09:34 AM "In what way did the US dodge its obligations?" From: http://news.rediff.com/column/2010/jun/11/praful-bidwai-on-the-bhopal-gas-tragedy.htm "In such cases, the principle of corporate liability demands that owners are made to take full responsibility for all mishaps. This principle is rightly being applied to BP for the oil spill off the Louisiana coast in the US. President Barack Obama [ Images ] says he wants to 'kick ass' and 'make sure that they (BP) pay every single dime owed to the people along the Gulf Coast'. The liability principle should apply with even greater force to the much greater disaster in Bhopal. Violating the principle can only encourage corporations to behave irresponsibly, cut corners on safety, cheat on regulations and expose the public to avoidable harm. No civilised society can allow that." |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Howard Jones Date: 11 Jun 10 - 10:28 AM I don't think anyone's suggesting BP should duck its obligations. It's the way US politicians appear to trying to give the impression that it's all the fault of foreigners, and their grandstanding for electoral purposes which is objectionable. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Ebbie Date: 11 Jun 10 - 11:07 AM Don T, FWIW, Q is Canadian. "For example, Britons are being extradited to the US (sometimes for offences which are not illegal here) without the protection of our own courts under a treaty intended for terrorists which the US has refused to ratify, with the effect that US citizens can't be extradited to the UK on similar terms." Question for Howard Jones: What offenses would that be? I truly don't know. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Alice Date: 11 Jun 10 - 11:26 AM All the fault of "foreigners"??? I think you should know most people in the US have seen tv ads for many years that say "BP Beyond Petroleum". Most people don't even know that BP is British. They are not upset because there is another country involved.... it is typical these days with oil drilling for oil projects to be multinational. They are upset because IT HAPPENED and was PREVENTABLE and the disaster plan was INADEQUATE. You are over reacting to something being promoted in your news there to make you feel on the defensive as a country. It truly is not what is happening over here. There is no attack on Britain here. Alice |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Lonesome EJ Date: 11 Jun 10 - 11:51 AM BP has been found guilty of numerous safety and environmental violations over the past decade, has been found guilty of criminal violations and forced to pay millions in fines, judgments, and reparations. As a company, it has shown willingness to play fast and loose with even its own safety standards in order to minimize down time and maximize profitability. The fact that this behavior was tolerated for as long as it has been is as much an impeachment of the regulating agencies in the United States as it is of BP. I frankly don't give a damn if B stands for British or Beneficial or Bastardly. As for dividends, my fear is that BP will pay its stockholders, fold its tents, and declare itself insolvent and incapable of further action on the colossal mess it has created. Has the company proven itself worthy of our trust in any other way? And if all of this ruffles some Brit feathers for some reason, maybe you'll feel differently if the sludge starts rolling up on the Isle of Wight. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Greg F. Date: 11 Jun 10 - 12:20 PM my fear is that BP will pay its stockholders, fold its tents, and declare itself insolvent and incapable of further action on the colossal mess it has created. And why not? That's laissez-faire capitalism at its best. "The Magic Of The Market" at work. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Lonesome EJ Date: 11 Jun 10 - 12:30 PM Anyone who wants to sign up for laissez faire capitalism can get in line behind Sarah Palin, Rand Paul, and Rush Limbaugh, Greg. That concept has been shown to be the province of thieves and liars for quite some time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: CarolC Date: 11 Jun 10 - 12:31 PM The oil is now heading for my beach here in North Carolina. After it leaves my beautiful state, it will be heading east, towards the UK. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Arthur_itus Date: 11 Jun 10 - 01:03 PM America should have made sure that BP complied to the very strict requirements needed to run this sort of operation. They didn't and we now have this mess. BP are obviously to blame but so is America. Stop blaming BP as if its all their fault Obama and start to accept that if your previous bumbling President's had done their job properly and made sure BP wasn't able to get into this situation in the first place, it wouldn't have happened. You have lost all respect from me Mr Obama. You are scoring cheap points against a foreign company who is working in your territory. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Ebbie Date: 11 Jun 10 - 01:08 PM I'm sure your opinion makes him sad, Artur. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: mousethief Date: 11 Jun 10 - 01:13 PM BP are obviously to blame but so is America. True. The deregulation (and de-facto deregulation by way of not enforcing those regulations that still do exist) of the Reagan Era (which Obama and Co., alas, are slow to overturn) (not that the Repuglicans have ANY right to complain about that!) is coming home to roost in the last 3 years. And why not? That's laissez-faire capitalism at its best. "The Magic Of The Market" at work. "The Market" is vastly overrated. "The Market" gave us the global financial meltdown of October 2008. Regulate the shit out of it. Business should work for people. That's why the governments allow corporations to exist. Or should be. What we are saying is that BP has stated very clearly, right from the start, that its intention is to pay for the lot. Well, they agreed to pay for all legitimate claims, "legitimate" being a weasel word which one can fully expect to be used to dodge out of claims that any number of observers might think are "legitimate". |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Howard Jones Date: 11 Jun 10 - 01:16 PM Ebbie, I believe there are some some offences relating to business practices where the law differs. A celebrated case here involved three businessmen involved in the Enron situation. Despite the fact that their alleged offence was committed in the UK against a British company, they were successfully extradited to the US where they were convicted. I don't want to get into the rights and wrongs of their conviction, but their publicity campaign highlighted the imbalance in extradition arrangements between the two countries. They were convicted of "wire fraud", in which the use of electronic communications adds to the severity of the sentence. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't believe a similar distinction applies in English law - it would be treated simply as fraud, with all the circumstances having a bearing on the sentence. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Arthur_itus Date: 11 Jun 10 - 01:17 PM Not that bothered Ebbie. Just fed up of the yanks, ducking the flack and blaming BP 100% and not facing up to their own cock ups. I think it's time our Prime Minister's stopped arsole creeping your President's. I personally am very sorry to see such a disaster and my heartfelt thoughts are with all the good honest people who are suffering over there. I think it's time we pulled out of all the war conflict's that you yanks have led us into, due to our own arsole creeping PM's. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Les from Hull Date: 11 Jun 10 - 01:20 PM Actually BP is not a British Company. The B does not stand for British any more, it stands for B - the name was changed from British Petroleum a few years ago. There are probably as many American investors in the company as there are British. It is a multi-national oil company that has its origins in Britain the same way that Royal Dutch Shell originated in the Netherlands. It is considered the 5th biggest company in the World. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: mousethief Date: 11 Jun 10 - 01:23 PM I think it's time we pulled out of all the war conflict's that you yanks have led us into, due to our own arsole creeping PM's. I think it's time that we (Americans) pulled out of the war conflicts. Fucking George Bush. And spineless Obama to keep us there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Lonesome EJ Date: 11 Jun 10 - 01:23 PM made sure BP wasn't able to get into this situation in the first place the poor performance of our regulatory agencies aside, a company that continues to act in criminal negligence is like a serial killer whose defense is "it's not my fault! Why didnt you stop me?" The fact is, deep ocean oilwell drilling is a huge risk, and a company undertaking it should provide a series of failsafe backup procedures in the event of disaster. There should also be a contingency plan to eliminate the threat, should all of the failsafes fail. Here, BP was allowed to undertake a project for which they didn't possess the technology for a repair. And even though they don't, they unfortunately still hold the best resources with potential for a solution. To condemn Obama for not fixing the blown well, or for his criticism of BP for undertaking a disastrous gamble, is ridiculous. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Greg F. Date: 11 Jun 10 - 01:29 PM Anyone who wants to sign up for laissez faire capitalism can get in line behind Sarah Palin, Rand Paul, and Rush Limbaugh, Greg. [NB: Add Ayan Rand to your list.And most of the Republican party.] You Betcha! and millions have, despite conclusive evidence that ot's a crock. God Help America. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Arthur_itus Date: 11 Jun 10 - 01:30 PM L EJ I am blaming America for letting BP get itself into this situation. I just can't stand that spineless Obama blaming BP when he knows his own country is just as much at fault. He is very good at talking the talk. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: mousethief Date: 11 Jun 10 - 01:34 PM I am blaming America for letting BP get itself into this situation. Then you're an idiot. BP is a big boy, it should be able to police itself at least to the extent of following all the laws and industry-wide safety procedures. That they did not is not America's fault. They need to take responsibility for their own actions, not pawn it off on the regulatory agencies etc. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Arthur_itus Date: 11 Jun 10 - 01:36 PM I beg your pardon Mousethief. Do not start flaming me. I have not insulted any mudcatter posters including you, and |I do not accept that from you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: mousethief Date: 11 Jun 10 - 01:39 PM Pardon. Then, what you have said is idiotic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Howard Jones Date: 11 Jun 10 - 01:39 PM Ordinary Americans may not identify BP as a British company. However Obama and some other politicians have been referring to it as "British Petroleum", which the company has not been known as for many years. Now this may just be a slip of the tongue, but it's being interpreted by the media here as a deliberate and orchestrated ploy to emphasise the foreignness of BP. It also appears that a lot of American politicians are adopting tough attitudes, with talk about "kicking ass", in order to get BP to do what it has already agreed it will do. All this posturing is being regarded as the politicians wanting to be seen to be defending American interests against nasty foreigners. Since BP is still viewed here as a leading British company, this is seen as anti-British. It's a view about American politicians, not the American people as a whole, but there's concern that it will begin to rub off on them if the politicians keep repeating it. It may not be an accurate interpretation of events, but it's how it's being reported here - the American media may have a different interpretation, I don't know. The reality of course is that despite its history and London base it is a multinational company and as much American as it is British. The reality also is that millions of American as well as British citizens are indirect shareholders in BP via their pension funds and other investments. That's you and me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: mousethief Date: 11 Jun 10 - 01:43 PM Now this may just be a slip of the tongue, but it's being interpreted by the media here as a deliberate and orchestrated ploy to emphasise the foreignness of BP. I'd say that's a deliberate and orchestrated ploy by your media. People who remember when BP meant "British Petroleum", and who were unaware of the fact it had changed its name (I wasn't aware of that -- I don't follow megaconglomerates very closely), I think can be forgiven. It's like KFC. "Everybody knows" it stands for "Kentucky Fried Chicken" but it no longer does so. But that fact hasn't exactly been shouted from the rooftops. I found it on an obscure blog. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Arthur_itus Date: 11 Jun 10 - 01:46 PM Mousethief, that is your opinion, but please refrain from flaming people who do not agree with your viewpoint. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: mousethief Date: 11 Jun 10 - 01:51 PM I said Pardon. Perhaps that's not clear. "I'm sorry I called you an idiot." Yes it is my opinion, as is everything else I say here. Same for you, mutatis mutandis. And everybody here. Thanks for reminding us. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Jun 10 - 02:15 PM Quote from BP website- "With our global headquarters in London and operations across the country, the UK is the hub of the entire BP business." http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=24@contentId=2000737. ----------------------------------------------- From links at that site: "The BP group operates across six continents, and our products and services are aailable in more than 100 countries." "London is where BP's corporate headquarters are located, and the UK is therefore a centre for trading, legal, finance and other mainstreram business functions. The UK is also home to three of BP's major global research and technology groups." North America "The BP group is the largest oil and gas producer and one of the largest gasoline retailers in the United States. We are the largest non-US company on the New York Stock Exchange. Our BP Alternative Energy business has an operations centre in Houston, and we also have solar manufacturing facilities in the USA." http://www.bp.com/extendedsectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=40&contentId=7061813 -------------- Excerpts from BP press releases are found through the same sites. Statements about payments to states are made there, but some press releases say no monies have actually been received. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Ebbie Date: 11 Jun 10 - 02:16 PM "Ordinary Americans may not identify BP as a British company." snippet "Since BP is still viewed here as a leading British company," So, what is the difference between Americans viewing BP as a British company and British citizens viewing BP as a British company? Me thinks mumble, mumble, mumble... |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 11 Jun 10 - 02:23 PM To turn this into a partisan party politics, is absolute absurd nonsense!! I've just received some figures, in regards to the spill, that are staggering!!!...and WAY worse than either side(?) is letting the people know about!! Obama will exploit this, and use this to push his cap and trade. STUPID!..The oil industry and its investors, are trying to minimize how the 'reported damage' is for their financial and public image purposes.. STUPID! The media(read: infotainment), depending on whose interests are backing them, are misleading people ON BOTH SIDES on a massive scale!! This is potentially, is a major historic event that threatens huge portions of mankind, both health, and economic. We are facing a lot different type of problem, than we may have ever faced before!..including mass evacuations, because of other compounds, being released..besides just oil! Furthermore, the drilling is a lot deeper, than just 5000 feet below the surface of the water. It penetrates up to 30,000 feet below the ocean floor! They believe they have penetrated the earth's mantel. The figures are not the mere figures that is being 'reported' on the infotainment propaganda services(so-called 'news'),..but are being estimated at 4 million barrels a day! As far as 'capping' the pipe: Oil drilling experts and engineers, have determined that 1500 psi is 'acceptable' levels for safe drilling pressures. What they have found here, and not being reported, is the pressures are 20,000, and up to 70,000 psi! Unfathomable by by industry standards, and by most of our minds! NOAA, (National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration), has found multiple plumes and fissures, with gushers within a 20 mile radius of the 'leak'. It is being reported by an unconfirmed source, (reportedly from leaked sources), that the material, Hydrogen sulfide, methylene chloride, benzene, and vanadium. Safe levels: Hydrogen Sulfide, 5-10 PPB (parts per billion)--detected: 1200 PPB....methylene chloride, safe: 61 PPB---detected 3400 PPB,...Benzene, Safe: 0-4 PPB---detected: 3000 PPB. Also amounts of Vanadium, a toxic metal, in undetermined large amounts. There is discussion of using a nuclear device to seal the leak, but to use it, they would have to take months to 'angle drill', put in place, and because of the hardness of the ocean floor and or mantel there, they can't determine(as of yet), what amount of power, or strength....in essence, they have to make an educated(?) guess!...nor have they ascertained, if it may cause more damage to the ocean floor/mantel, and actually make it WORSE! that the EPA has found other hazardous materials being released in staggering proportions.. To politicize this event, is sheer foolishness!! Should the hurricane season, get nasty, because it is upon us(gee, is that a Democratic or Republican hurricane??), the implications on the damage and toll on human life, and after effects could be in the millions(of lives, not primarily dollars..but both), in this country alone! Should the toxic compound hit the gulf stream, the European continent as well, this is a lot more of a 'bummer(?!)' than something to merely intellectualize about. There's more bits of stuff, but I thought that should give you some REAL food for thought......(pretty heavy snack, eh?) P.S. Side note: Sea gulls and fireflies, have been spotted in the southwestern area of Colorado!???!. This is a first! Whether or not that is related, is conjecture, at this point, but rather unusual! Yikes!...Now I'm going to hit the 'Submit Message' button....Here goes.........! Have a Pleasant Day, GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Arthur_itus Date: 11 Jun 10 - 02:59 PM OK I accept your apology Mousethief. Thankyou. We potentially have a world disaster and we all need to pull together, not blame everybody else. Sometimes in life, a major disaster occurs and we sometimes have to forget our arguments and hatred's towards one another and stop passing the buck. I have no idea how this problem will get solved, but I do believe Obama, should be saying to BP "OK this is a big mess, but let's move forward together for the sake of humanity. If and when we solve this disaster we will see where we go from there." I believe the world needs to get involved in this and help in whatever we can. Whether that is technology, advice, donations of money etc etc. So I say to Obama, get off your arse and invite the world to help in whatever way they can, before things get any worse. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Joe Offer Date: 11 Jun 10 - 04:34 PM Maybe I'm old, but I think of BP as AMOCO, formerly Standard Oil of Indiana, formerly John D. Rockefeller. The human face I attach to BP is John D. Rockefeller. As I said above, the ownership of BP is almost equally U.S. and U.K., with a small percentage of stockholders from other countries. So, yeah, it takes a real idiot to think that American criticism of BP is an insult to the United Kingdom. Haven't you people over there ever heard of a "multinational corporation"? In other words, the entire premise of this thread is silly. -Joe Offer (supported by mutual funds, and I think some have BP shares - should I be insulted?)- |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Donuel Date: 11 Jun 10 - 04:34 PM I accept your apology Arthur and in so doing you may continue to practice free speech as you like. In fact I will go as far as accepting everyone's apology without reservations. Afterall if you buy and use petroleum products you are part of the problem. ------------------------------------------------ UK is miffed and is decrying the poor penniless pensioneers in London who depend upon their dividend to keep body and soul together. If the US tries to take their money away to throw it at some fisherman in the Gulf, there will be repurcussions! Harumph harumph. what what |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Arthur_itus Date: 11 Jun 10 - 05:10 PM You yanks just get on with it, but stop blaming everybody else but yourselves. You are great at going into other countries and killing thousands of people without remorse, but you ain't so clever when something happens on your own soil. No wonder you are disliked so much. I just hope we in Britain stop sucking up to your incessant demands to tell other countries what to do by voilence by means of military intervention. I will leave you to blame everybody else but yourselves. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Ebbie Date: 11 Jun 10 - 05:23 PM Wow. When Mousethief apologizes to Artur, all hell breaks loose. Gracious thou art not, Art. GfS, for a change your conclusions are coherent and focused but I would like some clarification: 1) Where did you get the idea that we are treating this as a Democrat/Republican matter? 2) Where did you get the idea that we take this calamity less seriously than you do? 3) Please link us to some source(s) where we can read for ourselves what is being said out there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Bill D Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:02 PM One-more-time...as Q posted a bit ago: "Quote from BP website- "With our global headquarters in London and operations across the country, the UK is the hub of the entire BP business. ...and I doubt I am the only one who is getting tired of the blanket condemnations of the US such as Arthur itus just dropped! This is just stupid: "... going into other countries and killing thousands of people without remorse, ..." As if we 'enjoyed' war and misery and conflict... Should I make a list of UK involvements in the world for a few hundred years and generalize about them? Why does emotion have to negate reason? |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:28 PM Joe, you are close on the stockholders who hold beneficial shares. 44% UK, 39%US, 21% rest of world; BP figures on line at bp.com. UK institutions hold 33% and American institutions 25%. The rest are large individual holders. 777 shareholders have over a million shares each. There are some 19 million common shares; today the average price about noon was $34, about half of what it was before the gusher. BP's drilling carelessness is costing everybody, even if their pensions, investments and savings are with institutions which hold no BP shares. Guest from Sanity, the daily flow seems to be about 40-50 thousand barrels according to experts from various universities. Of course by the time relief wells are drilled, many millions will be in the Gulf- the Oil Sea. ------------------------- The last compensation figure released by BP (June 6) is $84 million to some 14,000 applicants, or roughly $6000 per claim. Less than peanuts. www.oilvoice.com June 6, 2010. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Rapparee Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:52 PM In an ad in 1999, BP told the US that they were "Bringing Oil To American Shores." |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Richard Bridge Date: 11 Jun 10 - 07:22 PM Look - long before there was any information about BP misconduct, US commentators were going for BP and ignoring the US companies involved. Were they psychic, or prejudiced? It isn't hard to figure out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 11 Jun 10 - 07:42 PM Q: "Guest from Sanity, the daily flow seems to be about 40-50 thousand barrels according to experts from various universities. Of course by the time relief wells are drilled, many millions will be in the Gulf- the Oil Sea." You mean, various universities that receive massive government funds??? The figures and info I received was from a reliable source... not only that, no sooner than I left here, went somewhere in the car, ABC radio, just reported that the spill had gotten further into the Gulf, and was a lot larger than they originally thought....and to answer Ebbster's questions, which is related, in a way, the EPA data was leaked, you might find more about it online, however I'd rather not divulge that, at this time. HOWEVER, this thing ain't going away too soon, I'm sure more will come out, as time goes on. I am not, have not, nor will not, pass misinformation onto you guys, to the best of my knowledge, (though I might piss a few of you off, especially those who can't distinguish between satire and hatred)..nonetheless, musicians/poets etc. are a peculiar people, whose gift, when NOT laying dormant, wallowing in the past, are NOT people I would ever intentionally bullshit!! When used properly, and when 'dialed-in', you have at your disposal, the means of changing lives, policies, and hearts. Giving you bad input intentionally, will NOT happen...from me......though, once again, you may or may not agree. As an example, look at the criticism, I posted during the elections, and primaries...that stuff is being made manifest, everyday that we live! Same with the corruption..same with the phony manipulation of the economy, for the sake of control!...all coming true. Musicians should be ahead of the curve, not parroting behind the curve, as set forth by the propaganda and infotainment industry! i wasn't going to even post on this thread, but being as I got the new info, i thought I'd pass it. Do with it as you'd like, but to the best of my knowledge, it is accurate!! There are some things to consider about how this was(or wasn't) handled, but there have been some massive mistakes made in judgment, and now it has been turned into a 'blame game'. This is sheer lunacy!! Mama Earth is bleeding, we did it, and rather than fix it, the evil clown(s) are trying to use it for their own arrogant purposes. The arguments we hear, are the ones put forth, and repeated by whomever, has something to gain, one way or another. Please, do NOT fall into it. Okay, better go now, before I go into 'sermon mode'! Regards, GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Alice Date: 11 Jun 10 - 07:58 PM Richard wrote "going for BP and ignoring the US companies involved" You are misinformed. The American news has been covering Transocean, the Minerals Management Service that was the agency that did not regulate as they should, decades of poor regulation, Dick Cheney and his closed door meetings with energy companies during the Bush years... and much more. You are seeing something in the British news that is distorting what is really happening here. Dare I suggest that someone has an interest in trying to stir up emotions by creating the impression in Britain of your country being attacked? |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Jun 10 - 08:04 PM Sanity, I think you are about ready for restraints. New info from where, reading your tarot cards? |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Joe Offer Date: 11 Jun 10 - 08:41 PM I think we should feel sorry for poor little Switzerland, home of Transocean now that it left the Caiman Islands. The big, bad Americans are bullying the poor Swiss yodelers, simply because Transocean is a Swiss corporation. Well, actually, no. Americans are very nervous about multinational corporations - companies so big and widespread that they don't have to bother answering to any government authority. Don't give me this bullshit that criticism of BP is prejudice against Britain. BP is beyond Britain - and it's as much a threat to the UK, as it is to the US. It has too much power, and too little ethics. Oh, and we've been picking on Exxon ever since they spilled a little oil in Alaska..... Are they British? Nope - they're another descendant of John D. Rockefeller. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 11 Jun 10 - 09:05 PM Q: "New info from where, reading your tarot cards?" let's not get snotty, you can perhaps find it online, maybe not, but I'm not, at this time, going to burn my source. ..and Joe, is absolutely correct. Multinational Corporations are unto themselves, as little countries. They know no borders, as we relate to them...and seem to avoid regulation. More than money, power is what they're after. They have their own alliances, some within themselves. they are at odds with political systems, that they haven't been able to fully corrupt. The ones they DO corrupt legislate laws in their favor, not the people who the 'representatives' are supposed to be representing...Oh, and that includes 'The Fed'..a private corporation! ....and by the way, should I find, through my sources, that my info, was in error, in part, or all, I WILL amend it, or retract....but as for now, it stands! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Jun 10 - 09:13 PM Source, or forget it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill) From: Greg F. Date: 11 Jun 10 - 09:25 PM I am blaming America for letting BP get itself into this situation. Just for the record: Not only is this statement idiotic, its assinine. And no, I've no intention of apoligizing. |
