A return to only one section?

Subject: A return to only one section?
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 02:43 PM

When more changes are implemented on Mudcat, please, please consider a return to having only one section? That way maybe our forum can return to some semblance of creativity.

It is clear that many contributors to the music section do not now venture into the BS section and also clear that many contributors to the BS section do not now venture into the music section.

I feel strongly that this has had the effect of weakening both sections and our forum in general.

As we now have the various prefixes for thread titles - there is really no reason for separate sections. This presents little advantage and if the object was to prevent posters from complaining about what other posters choose to post - it has clearly not worked.

I suggest that nothing will achieve this - so the attempt can be safely given-up as futile. Especially when the example currently presented, encourages posts containing only complaints about what others post and personal judgements to be made about the worth of other posters.

I have noticed that when the odd BS thread has had some form of life on the music section - before it is whisked away to the BS section by persons unknown - it is noticable that there are quite a few welcome and constructive post from posters whose names you would not tend to see on threads in the current BS section.

I would have thought that encouraging this can only be a good thing?

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 02:50 PM

Shambles, the choice is there for EVERY single member to take.

Go to membership and chose Yes for "Mix Music & Non Music" or "No" if you prefer the split.

I prefer freedom if choice to the settings being inflicted on members one way or other.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 02:55 PM

Thank you, Jon....I had not even noticed that that choice was there. Clearly, it is best if we have that choice, considering how so many prefer NOT to have BS to cope with as they peruse music threads.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:24 PM

Silly Billy-- I've run thread-ads for that option at least three separate time! :~)

Doesn't this thread belong in the BS section?

~S~

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:38 PM

I think the main point is that the split view is now the default position when anybody visits the site.
I am aware thay it is possible to reset your personal view to mix the two, but let's face it, most of us can't be bothered to do so. I sometimes think of trying the switch, but by the time I have finished reading whichever current thread or list of threads, I have forgotten my intention. I also cannot remember instructions for how to do it by the time I revisit the site.
I am sure that I am not the only one.
My personal opinion is that I would prefer the original mix as default but with the option of separating categories if a viewer is particularly bothered.
I would also be in favour of sub categories within BS. Something to enable me to find threads which are "social" - e.g. who is attending festivals/events, "political US/UK" so that I can avoid them, "fiction/imagination" Mudcat Tavern/Stories/Donuel's artwork, "humour" blowed if I can think what would go there....

Quack!
Geoff.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: Bert
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:43 PM

I use the mixed option all the time.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:45 PM

Actually Susan, I do not think this thread belongs in BS. It is an attempt to raise a serious suggestion concerning the running of the daily outlook of the forum. The split was institiuted as a response to certain complainers. I doubt that most of the forum members expressed an opinion either way. It has been some time since the change, perhaps the members should have an oportunity to review how successful or otherwise the split has been.
Quack!
Geoff.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:48 PM

Well Geoff, the split most certainly was successful in putting an end to one set of rows that went on for years. There were arguments on the subject running when I first joined in 1999.

Whether the default position is the correct one is an issue which IMO may be worth considering.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 03:54 PM

The split was institiuted as a response to certain complainers

And no, that isn't entirely accrurate, at least from my view poit, my personal complaint was the lack of a simple device that could satisfy both camps.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 04:02 PM

It could of course be made more easily switchable btw. I just work mine on it's own cookie these days having revised my own approach on this issue. Try this page and alternate between "group" and "date" in the sort column before pressing go to see the 2 views I currently offer.

I'm not in any way suggesting that's how MC should work, just showing one other way of trying to address these things.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 04:06 PM

I would quite like a simple button at the top of the list which just separates the categories. Possibly a series of buttons so that I can make my choice depending on my mood or the time available. It still takes a long time to read all the above line threads when I might want fancy looking at computer tech stuff or be in the mood for a web search to help someone find lyrics.
Simply tick your boxes and click refresh...

Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 04:35 PM

I find it interesting that thread is one of three current threads on the same or similar subject-whether Mudcat should continue to have a music/folklore section and a non-music {BS} section or more than these two sections.

Just for the record, the other current threads on this subject {or near enough in my opinion} are A non-political BS section, please?! started by katlaughing on 03 Sep 06 - 09:49 AM and BS: Non- Music section. started by Divis Sweeney 03 Sep 06 - 07:14 PM.

I'm not sure why there needs to be three current threads on basically the same topic, but I'm not complaining. Maybe the individuals who started the second and third thread felt that their twist to the subject was important.

I decided to post in this thread because it had the least number of posts and I usually side for the underdog.

When I first came to Mudcat, I never posted below the line. I didn't even read the BS threads after trying one or two times because I didn't "get" it- "it" being the connections that people have who post there and what they were talking about. It's like trying to watch a television soap opera and not knowing the characters or the plots. It's so difficult if you have nobody to explain what's going on to you.

I finally took the plunge to the BS section after someone {I can't remember who} wrote a comment in one of the music threads encouraging me to visit a BS thread on mummers. And so I went, and I've been a poster below the line-and above the line-ever since.

There have been times that I have vowed never to post below the line again, but I keep coming back and reading and posting or even starting BS threads. Why? Because I like the wit & humor of the BS threads. I like learning about different cultures. I like exchanging comments real time-or near real time-with folks in places I'll probably never visit. At least for me these "getting to know all about you" conversational exchanges occur more often below the line than in the music sections. And at least for me, these types of exchanges [the non-contentious ones] are the heart of Mudcat and what I like most about this community.

In one of these three current "should we have a BS section" threads-it's hard for me to I can't tell them apart-someone mentioned that Mudcat was not a community. And another poster agreed. I disagree with this opinion. I believe that Mudcat is a community that has cliques and counter-cliques, divisions and sub-divisions, loners, and gregarious joiners. This is just like any brick & motar community or real life organization.

I don't know all the people in my community, and I don't like all the people who I do know in my community. All the people in my community don't know me, and all the people who do know me don't like me. That's to be expected. Why should I think that an online community would be any different?

Rodney King asked "Can't we all get along". I used to think the answer was a very simple "Yes". Now I believe the answer is a very complicated "No". And I've learned to live with that while doing the best I can to do the best I can.

None of this may have anything to do with the price of beans in Boston. But it's my two cents and I'll spend it the way I wanna.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 05:01 PM

Would you also recommend that your local public library mix fiction and nonfiction?

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: kendall
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 05:10 PM

Leave it alone. I like the split.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: Tootler
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 05:27 PM

I like the idea of having a choice of split or not to split, but I think putting the selection buttons on the Membership page rather hides them.

A better place would be the Personal page, IMHO.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 06:22 PM

A return to


















































Section 8.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 07:55 PM

Actually Susan, I do not think this thread belongs in BS. It is an attempt to raise a serious suggestion concerning the running of the daily outlook of the forum.

I agree entirly but unless there is any chance of it being returned to the music section - where we may judge this thread belongs appears to be thought to be of little importance.

But had it remained there - it may have been possible to obtain the views of posters who are not usually able to contribute to issues that affect them equally, in such threads as these, as they would not see them in the BS section, but whose contributions in them may have been useful to the discussion. Perhaps that was one reason why it was so quickly relegated to the BS?

I am all in favour of posters having the choice but perhaps it would be better if the default setting was one mixed forum? That was after all the starting point of our forum.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 08:10 PM

I prefer freedom if choice to the settings being inflicted on members one way or other.

One reason for a change back to one forum would be to prevent the choice being inflicted upon us anonymously, about what thread is judged to be BS and moved.

The use of a prefix is (supposed to) be optional after all. The only reason how a thread is prefixed, now seems to matter so much (to those pedantic ones these things always matter to) is because there are now two sections for them to be placed.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 08:28 PM

Shambles, can you spot the conflicts between your last 2 posts?

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 09:14 PM

I'll bet a C-note he can't Guest........

Spaw

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 09:23 PM

And I'll bet an E he does it on purpose so people feel compelled to point out his 'mistake' and don't ignore him.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 09:30 PM

Could be Jeri. But after this past month around here I could give a shit less.......Was it you who said somewhere today that this wasn't much of a community now? If it was, my congrats....You have it right on the money.....so I'll withdraw my first bet.

Spaw

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: Bert
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 12:16 AM

We really need a third "TROLL" section.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: ragdall
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 12:47 AM

We really need a third "TROLL" section.

But would the trolls really use it, or would it just be a waste of space?

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 03:54 AM

NO NON NO NO NEIN OXI NYE NAE ETC ETC.
Leave it as it is, it works for most of us, in fact only the stick in the muds, and the professional complainers want to go back to a single thread.
Can you imagine the cries of anguish from music only Catters when they can't find a musical thread because it's buried under a pile of non musical ones?
Also the speed with which subjects disappear of the end would be frightening, the most common post on here would become "Refresh"
Giok

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 04:11 AM

I didn't know you could mix them - Thanks for pointing it out and I have now done so:-)

I think the personal choice is by far the best idea. Leave it as it is. DO you want Mudcat to impose how you should view the threads, Roger? I thought you were fighting for more personal freedom, not less.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 05:13 AM

DO you want Mudcat to impose how you should view the threads, Roger? I thought you were fighting for more personal freedom, not less.

This is already imposed to the extent that if you do not choose the BS prefix - the default will now place the thread in the music section.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: JennyO
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 07:24 AM

I just posted on this thread - RE: BS: Non- Music section., but my post might have been better off here.

So does anyone know the current URL of the mixed view? Mine doesn't seem to work any more. I don't really need it myself, because I prefer the way things are now - others might find it useful though.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 07:36 AM

Can we have seperate section for Shambles' posts? Pretty please?

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: GUEST,Bee
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 09:57 AM

I think the seperation as it is works fine, especially for newcomers, who after all usually find Mudcat because they are looking for music. If the music threads were all mixed in with the community fun and games, it would be a nightmare for a new person trying to find anything useful. If you want to read the BS conversations, it's easy enough to do so (and most will).

Ain't broke, don't fix. IMNSHO.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 11:23 AM

Please ban Shambles from posting. One thread is one too many.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 11:33 AM

I never heard of the member The Shambles, until this weekend on a thread. I don't think I have ever been on a thread with him/her.

They are entitled to an opinion like the rest of us, don't be so hard on them. We are different as people and with different viewspoints.

DS

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: jeffp
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 12:17 PM

Divis, it's not his opinions, but his actions, that are the problem. Do a search on his posts for edification.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: kendall
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 12:38 PM

Another tempest in a tea pot.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 12:41 PM

I vote for two sections. Makes my browsing siginficantly easier.

Russ (Permanent GUEST, so who cares what he thinks)

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 01:39 PM

Did I just get insulted there ?

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 01:42 PM

Nope, not even a near miss.
G ¦¬]

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 02:01 PM

Divis, it's not his opinions, but his actions, that are the problem. Do a search on his posts for edification.

If you should take the bother to do this - you will find that it is indeed my opinions that are the problem, in a what is personally motivated witch-hunt and abuse of trust that reflects little credit on anyone.

Threads containing my moderately expressed views and honest suggestions are now closed for the slightest excuse and when I try to start new ones - these are the actions that are referred to. In fact this is just an attempt to justify special restrictions to prevent my views from appearing.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: jeffp
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 02:06 PM

Let the man decide for himself.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: GUEST,Concerned of Tunbridge Wells
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 02:12 PM

As far as I have read on this site, Mr Shambles is quite entitled to start another thread now that his last one has been shut down due to 100% apathy.
His threadlessness is therefore self imposed.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: curmudgeon
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 03:53 PM

No thank you - Tom

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 03:54 PM

It ain't closed yet. Sorry, just had to say that.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 05:05 PM

I think it's early closing on Thursdays.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: Bert
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 05:22 PM

...But would the trolls really use it...

Not voluntarily. Clones would move all obvious troll threads to the troll section which would be only available to members.

Then gutless GUESTS would have to go out and find their balls and sign up if they wanted to continue the discussion.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 05:57 PM

I'm a ball-less GUEST looking for my guts. Any one seen them? Kind of pink and squishy looking.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: Amos
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 06:26 PM

Yes, they're just over there, outside the room you're in...perhaps you dropped them while coming over to the computer...


A

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 06:43 PM

I said this in the other thread, "I still like the members-only idea, with people needing either cookies or passwords to post."

(Hi Peace! ;-)

The other Rogered thread has gone for 8 days without anyone replying to him. I hope thats the beginning of a trend instead of a one-off.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 06:46 PM

He is fishing ever more frantically as people ignore him. Good job.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 06:49 PM

Thanks amos but that's my grandmother.

Subject: RE: A return to only one section?
From: kendall
Date: 05 Sep 06 - 07:14 PM

He doesn't get it. He will never get it. Numb as a hake he is.