TECH: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?

Subject: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 10 Sep 01 - 11:15 PM

Hello Technocats,

I did fairly well at a craft fair this past weekend and I have a temporary embarrasment of riches. I have about a gazillion 12" LP's and I'd like to hear them again. So I am resrurecting the old Dual changer and I'm gonna switch this vinyl over to digital. What do I need and what is the best way to go regards a burner?

Regards

Don

Don

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: GUEST,,gargoyle
Date: 10 Sep 01 - 11:37 PM

Used Yamaha...and EZ-CD Creator for years....

However, the new "Nero Burning ROM" (love the pun) appears to be superior in several aspects. 1. Ease 2. Speed 3. Multiple Media

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: SeanM
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 12:33 AM

One hitch with "Nero" - you can't copy CD to CD. Anything that it registers in normal CD format is immediately rejected as violating their "copyright filter".

It came with the CDR/W drive we bought... I was a bit peeved, as I was attempting to copy songs from MY OWN GROUP that were burned for me in the first place as a rehearsal tape. Beyond that, I'm a bit peeved at the assertion that my personal license granted by purchasing music was ignored. Unless things have RADICALLY changed, the owner of the recording still has the right to make both archival copies and compilations - as long as they are for personal use.

Well... now that THAT is out of the way...

I'm currently using 'Sonic Foundry SIREN Jukebox'. Seems to work OK, though it doesn't support the drive we have.

That brings up a good point - do the research. Find out what kind of drive you have and do some research on the various programs you're considering to make sure that you meet the technical specs and that your drive is going to work with the software. The problems may be minor - the only problem I ran into is that my burner will only copy at 1x rather than the higher speeds it's capable of - but you may also end up with software that won't recognize your drive at all.

M

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 01:41 AM

I just had a Plexwriter 16/10/40A CD-R/W drive installed in my beastie. I got it from the same shop that built my computer, which has run like clockwork for the past two years, so I figured they know what they're doing. I haven't yet used the burner enough to know what the heck I'm doing, but I have copied a couple of CD-ROMs and that was ducksoup, just like backing up a floppy. A mess of software came with it that the man said should be all I really need, but I also have MusicMatch installed. I'm reading manuals now, and following this thread with interest.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 11 Sep 01 - 09:42 AM

Hardware - no specific recommendations. HOWEVER, I highly recommend one with some version of the current "burnproof" technology. You will be able to multitask while burning CDs and you will produce no "coasters". The burners cost more but they are worth it.

Software - The burner will probably come with some version of Easy CD Creator. I've used it happily for years.

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: Gypsy
Date: 10 Apr 02 - 07:02 PM

Well, since we are getting a fairly large return....any further thoughts on the subject? What bells and whistles are really usable, as opposed to not? They have come WAY down in price, but want to get something VERY usable, the FIRST time around. Howzabout software? Anymore opinions?

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Apr 02 - 07:49 PM

I have a Yamaha that is just a year old, and it will copy CDs...was state of the art at the time, but so much has happened since, I couldn't guess! Nero is good, but the Adaptec software that came with the Yamaha is a standard, trustworthy brand...it just may not be the 'best' today.

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: michaelr
Date: 10 Apr 02 - 08:04 PM

I use the Plextor Plexwriter 16/10/40A which came with my (custom-built) computer. It's fast (makes a complete CD in about 3 minutes) and so far it's been trouble-free. For software I use Roxio Easy CD Creator. Good stuff!

Michael

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 Apr 02 - 08:30 PM

We bought the Yamaha CRW-3200EZ, largely based on magazine reviews. Web order, since local suppliers didn't seem to have much selection of better grade machines.

The CRW-3200EZ is a 24X burner, and appears to live up to the speed ratings if you use approprately rated blanks.

It came with the Nero Burning ROM, which is quite easy to use - as evidenced by the fact that we've managed to get quite a few workable CDs out of it.

I'm not sure what happens if you try to copy to "audio" CD blanks, but if you use the "data" blanks, we've had no problem copying CD-to-CD. It offers to connect you to the "copyright police" to pay for your copy, but you can click "ignore." If you're on a hard-wired, permanent, fast connection, yo might get there before you get a chance to respond, but our POTS hookup just waits.

The Yamaha also came with "Music Match Jukebox," which is a fairly common - and fairly "user-friendly" utility.

About $215 (US) last December.

John

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 Apr 02 - 08:41 PM

Related thread here, may be of interest.

John

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From:
Date: 10 Apr 02 - 09:40 PM

Presently I'm using Nero 5.5 and have had no problems: however I have compressed some of my music in mp3 format and everything went find during the burning, but now I am unable to play the cd on my computer. I do not have an mp3 player as of yet, and if I am reading correctly it states that Nero will not play cd's in mp3 format only on windows 95-98 and NT.I am no expert in this but has anyone had this problem or am I just not up to par with this software.Thanks

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: 53
Date: 10 Apr 02 - 10:43 PM

Make sure you know what you are doing when installing it.

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 11 Apr 02 - 06:22 AM

I bought a Liteon CD R/W a few days ago. The software that came with it is Nero (doesn't have the version on the CD) and I copied a couple of audio CDs and backed up some data with it so it seemed to do all I want...

But... armed with this new toy and with the ability to back up everything I cared about, I decided to re-format drive C and give my PC the first clean install it's had in years... Never realised my old Office CD was screwed... I have finally decided to try to move everything I can onto Linux and kick Windows into touch as far as possible. Mandrake Linux (Harddrake) seems determined my CD R/W is a SCSI device... got a lot of struggling, I think, before I get it working under Linux.

Jon

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: Bo Vandenberg
Date: 11 Apr 02 - 08:13 AM

Jon, Linux uses the SCSI drivers for for CD R/Ws its not a bug just weird name. I think its because the SCSI drivers are more sensitive to dataflow rates or something.

bo

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: Fiolar
Date: 11 Apr 02 - 09:29 AM

Try the software "Dart - CD Recorder" from Macmillan for recording your vinyl. When you start the program, click on "save" and give your project a name. Then start your turntable and click on "record." Keep an eye on the length of time it takes and click "stop" and "close." Then you can split the file into its various tracks. For burning purposes I then use the software "Audio Cleaning Lab" from Magix. You import the file and it allows you to get rid of all the hisses and crackles which may be on old vinyl. At present I am on vinyl number 117 which I am transferring to CD. I manage to fit two vinyls per 80 minute CD. It may appear a complicated process at first but it is very easy to master quite quickly and the only problem is giving the time to record your vinyl. Good luck.

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: Gypsy
Date: 11 Apr 02 - 05:50 PM

Howabout recording off of the net? Can you get archives with real player, and record directly? Do you need different software? And, is it special software for recording information,as opposed to audio?

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 Apr 02 - 07:25 PM

Gypsy -

So far as I've seen, most CD burner software allows you to select whether you want a "music" CD or a "data" CD.

You can get "music CD" blanks, that have a "copyright protection" code on them, that - among other things - verifies that you've paid for a "generic mechanical rights" when you bought the blank.

You can record just about anything on the standard "data" CDs, and they're usually cheaper, with more varieties available.

Once you record a "music CD," regardless of which kind of blank you use, it's pretty much a one-shot. You can't add something you forgot.

On a "data CD," you can add information at any time. The small file that "addresses" the data files is replaced with a new file that includes the previous stuff along with what's added.

You can also use the "R/W" or "rewritable" CDs, that work "just like a hard drive" in that you can erase stuff and put new things in place of it (up to a point). These disks are significantly more expensive, and your "burner" must be one designed to use them. All CD-R/W drives and all software for them (that I've seen) will also handle the standard "write once," audio or data CDs.

If you want to use some different format - like MP3, on your CDs, you will probably need separate software, but CD burners come only in the two kinds - with and without the "rewritable" capability.

Note the existence also of DVD burners - but that's a different subject.

John

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Apr 02 - 08:07 PM

a portable player that will play MP3 files is a fairly new thing...you mostly need to convert MP3 to .wav files to make standard CDs. I have been reading and learning about all this slowly, and now 'can' do almost any conversion so I can make CDS from music I find...very handy!....and when I can afford it, I will also get an MP3 player.

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 11 Apr 02 - 08:15 PM

Thanks bob, I've got a lot to learn... Anyway, I only saw the SCSI bit as the device was listed twice in H/W detection (the other being /dev/hdc) when I was trying to get the thing to work. It seems that may be normal... I have since discovered that at times, /dev/hdc looses it's interrupt - sounds a pretty clumsy thing to do - and its not clear whether something called devfs is to blame or not...

Jon

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From:
Date: 11 Apr 02 - 08:24 PM

If you would like to really dive into the technical details CD-R and CD-RW, here are two URL's of interest:

http://www.mrichter.com/cdr/primer/primer.htm

http://www.cdr-info.com

Kurt Liebezeit

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: Gypsy
Date: 11 Apr 02 - 09:23 PM

John in Kansas...am looking at the same burner that you apparently got. Are you still enchanted with it? Found one thru amazon for about 160.00. Didn't check...does it copy dvd as well, or is that a totally different gizmo? Sure has a huge software bundle with it.

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: IvanB
Date: 11 Apr 02 - 10:23 PM

Actually, there are a number of portable CD players on the market that will handle MP3's as well as standard music CD's. I just bought an RCA for $69 US, but I've seen other brands as low as $49. As for burning MP3 disks, they're created exactly the same as you'd make a data disk. I'm in the process of copying my entire CD collection to MP3 so I can take it all with me when we travel.

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 12 Apr 02 - 12:12 AM

Gypsy -

The Yamaha we got is not a DVD. Just plain ol' CDs, but does the R/Ws if you want to.

When I couldn't find anything locally, I took the recommendation from magazine reviews, went to the Yamaha site and found the "latest" version similar to one that had gotten good reviews. We've had it for about half a year, so there may be a later model, although I don't think there's been much meaningful improvement recently.

We're quite happy with it. My only problem is that it's in the SO's machine, so I have to send her to bed (alone) if I want to use it. I have two hard drives in mine, so would have to add another EIDE card to put one in it; and one per family is really enough for us.

John

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: Gypsy
Date: 12 Apr 02 - 07:33 PM

Terrific! THanks ever so much for the clicky, didn't know they had them with USB's. Will have to check amazon...think the one i looked at (and it was 140.00) doesn't have that, and makes life much easier.

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Apr 02 - 01:55 AM

Gypsy -

For a CD burner, beware of the USB connection. The data transfer rate, for "plain vanilla" USB is not adequate for what you probably want for a CD burner. If you look closely, you'll see that the USB versions are usually not over 7X to 12X, where other connections can give you 24X or better.

You should have an ISDE, "firewire," SCSI2, or one of the other fast connections for a CD-R or CD-R/W.

If you don't have a connection avialable, and you actually have some reason for having an external burner, you can probably live with USB, but it's not the best in normal circumstances.

John

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 13 Apr 02 - 09:08 AM

Got there at last. Lite_On CD R/W now works under both Windows and Linux!

Have just copied a CD using the free X burner software and still have the Gnome on and one other to try - all free too! Maybe when I get all the initial hardware config problems sorted, I will really get to like Linux and be pleased I decided to make it my primary O/S (say's he hopefully...).

As for my problem - took me ages to decide it was a hardware problem as Windows worked and another version of linux (as well of the install for current version of linux) had read CDs. It came down to changing my IDE hard disk cables, etc. and following what error moved with what - anything on Secondary IDE had problems and then removing PCI/ISA cards before finding the problem - one I should have thought of... I use an old SB AWE 32 soundcard to mount a Yamaha DBXG50B daughter board for MIDI because the MIDI on my SB Live is crap (seriously in other ways, I like the card but it's well below the output I get with the nearly 10 yr od Yamaha for MIDI). The problem is that card has its own IDE bus and there becomes a fight for IRQ15...

Oh well, time to save up for a new card - maybe, I can dream... I quite fancy a Yamaha SW1000XG but it's about £300... must ask in the sound recording thread about it...

Jon

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: harpmaker
Date: 11 Oct 02 - 07:02 PM

I have used IDE-cd r/rw 4x4x24 for the last 2 years, and it produces the odd "coaster" also some music cd's it writes don't always play on other peoples stack systems which is a problem to me, I want something more reliable. So what should I buy? An upgrade to the plextor plexwriter, perhaps? any comments.

Subject: RE: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: Amos
Date: 11 Oct 02 - 08:41 PM

Yamaha's 20-10-40 DIgital model is hot puggable USB. I have found Roxio's Toast to be completely reliable for data or music and it also allows full-CD copying.


A

Subject: RE: TECH: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: GUEST,SomedayIllget thisnewcomputerruning Mac Ta
Date: 12 Oct 02 - 05:41 AM

Three years on and WinOnCD has worked for me EVERY time. Most problems with copying stem from dust or marks on the original CD. allways clean and check the CD to be coppied. Another tip, is to play the CD on your computer. If it won't play, it won't coppy. Slower speed coppying is also another route to follow, just because the spec. clames the writer can coppy at "40 times" doesn't mean you realy have to, after all you're not holding your breath while the computer does it's stuff. By the way how fast is "1 times", I should know but can't rember.

Subject: RE: TECH: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: treewind
Date: 12 Oct 02 - 06:18 AM

I've not had any problems with my Plextor.
I can burn cheap CDR blanks at x24 with cdrecord (Linux).
Ony problem I had with first installation was the hard disk not keeping up, but I've sorted that, and since then no coasters.

Anahata

Subject: RE: TECH: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 12 Oct 02 - 11:01 AM

I use the same Plextor everyone else here does, with the bundeled Adaptec software. It works great. About USB, there is a NEW STANDARD out thats plenty fast enough for CD burning. I think it's 2.0. Also be aware that no matter what the guarantee says, your CD is probably good for only 5 years at best. Use good quality cd-rw's in order to get that much.For audio work, people have been saying: stick with the best older gear you can get until this copy-right thing settles out. Congress may destroy the whole thing anyway.

Subject: RE: TECH: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 12 Oct 02 - 12:52 PM

Since Don is the person asking the original question I will ignore all the rest!

At PC stuff since DOS 3 days - I have no vested interest!

To get a CD burner that does the entire whateveryouwant and no refusing under Winderz as well retaining it's ability to be recognized as a CD Burner under any flavor of Linux - as a scsi device - it is nearly impossible to get better than HP and there simply are NONE at lower cost or better service today except IBM.

The HP burners I have used all allow CD to CD - anysource IN under the Music Match and direct to the CD Burner.

The last time I looked a typical HP domestic burner ran 130 bucks.

Another simpler alternative here is the CD recorder which will plug into your Hifi.

What I often do - mixing and/or difficult masters - is record the source onto DAT tape then plug that into a computer.

Subject: RE: TECH: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 12 Oct 02 - 02:01 PM

As this thread is going into its second year, I've had time to gain a little more experience with our setup; and we have added something new. Perhaps additional comment will be helpful.

Wife's setup is the Yamaha CRW-3200EZ mentioned above, added into her Win2K machine that already had a CD-ROM. The main software that came with the Yamaha was Nero - Burning ROM. CD to CD copies are a snap with this setup, and I stuffed our old Win98 "guest" PC into an old "stereo cabinet" with a turntable and tape deck for recording from LPs or tapes direct to the hard drive. The recordings are copied to the PC with the burner via our etherlink LAN for the actual burn.

We recently needed an upgraded laptop for business use, and got a Dell (Latitude C840) that came with a "built-in" burner and "Roxio Easy CD Creator" software.

The Yamaha/Nero setup is our system of choice for music CDs. It's easy and almost foolproof. For data CDs, Nero has one almost fatal flaw. Every file (in Windows) has a "long file name," which is the one you see in Win Explorer. Every file also has a "DOS filename" which is the one you see if you run a "dir" in DOS (Command window). Unfortunately, a data CD uses an ISO filename that is created (using some arcane conversion) during preparation for burning.

Not every "long file name" will convert directly to a "legal ISO" filename. When Nero encounters an illegal ISO filename, it reports the ISO name and stops. It can be literally impossible to determine what DOS or "long filename" corresponds to that ISO name, so you hunt through the directory for something that looks suspicious, change it, and try again. If you're lucky, and changed the right one, Nero then finds the next "ISO filename error" and aborts. Start over. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

I was in my third month of trying to get a "clean" set of file names for the backup of our last year of email (1500 files, 700MB) using Nero, when we got the Dell with "Easy CD." When Easy CD finds a "non-conforming" ISO filename, it reports the Windows long file name and suggests a correction. You can accept or edit the correction, and it continues to the next non-conforming name. You can also just click "change all" - and the compilation completes in one shot.

Three months hard work with Nero had NOT produced a good data backup. Fifteen minutes with Easy CD and it was done.

Obviously, most people here are more interested in music CDs than in data backups. Nero is still our choice for music - but if I had only one burner, I'd definitely have both of these programs on the machine.

John

Subject: RE: TECH: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: CraigS
Date: 12 Oct 02 - 07:40 PM

I've just spent six hours in mortal combat with a Lite-on CDR that a friend bought, and the accompanying Nero software. In the first place I installed the drive and tried to run it with the Adaptec Easy CD software that my friend is used to. No dice - it won't recognise the drive as a writer, although it was reading disks OK. The on-line drive manual gave three reasons for the drive not writing; insufficient hard disk space for the buffer, a disk inserted upside down, and not using the bundled software. I installed the Nero software that came with the drive. It made copies, but only when the CD writer was used as the read drive as well, and it insisted on trying to connect to the net for the track listings. The nice, fast Toshiba reader in the system is redundant as the Nero burning software throws up a read error if you try to use it as the read drive, although the Nero Media Player will quite happily play disks in it. I wouldn't advise anyone to buy a Lite-On drive after this experience. The Hewlett Packard it replaced was slow, but reliable.
On the other hand I have heard bad reports of some Hewlett Packard drives - apparently these are model-specific, ie some models are good, others are not.

Subject: RE: TECH: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: Ed.
Date: 12 Oct 02 - 08:05 PM

Craig,

I understand your frustration.

However, the problem is that there are so many variables in any Windows setup (both hardware and software), that just because a particular decive won't work easily in a certain system, doesn't mean that it's a crap device.

Waiting for Amos to come by and say that everything works perfectly in Macland...

(btw it doesn't)

Ed

Subject: RE: TECH: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 12 Oct 02 - 11:12 PM

My Plextor works fine in Winblows 98, 2000, and SuSE Linux 8.0. Naturally, it's more work in linux.

Subject: RE: TECH: Help: CD Burners- What to buy?
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 Oct 02 - 05:44 AM

I would suggest the software they bundle with is more important these days.
Mine is two years old and plays DVD as well - nice touch I never used. The software is Nero and with version 5.5 it can create VCD - which is a CD that will play as a DVD.
Now if you plan to have it for a few years I think that is a nice compromise between the newish and expenside DVD burners (and the issue or +R, -R or ""£$* R).
Look at the software features first- the burners, for the most part, will do the job and if you don't plan to make CD's for sale the speeds are very much a secondary issue.