BS: UK General election December 12 2019

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 06:57 AM

Oh, and that was 400.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 07:05 AM

I am not going to attempt to argue the what the law says - anyone can read it for themselves. But I think it a curious interpretation that minor criminals can be released subject to HDC, but that more serious criminals can be released with no supervision at all. The clause we are discussing can only reasonably mean they cannot be released, or a more thorough supervision than HDC is required if they are released.


I have made my point, you have made yours. It is now up to third parties to decide what they think.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 07:10 AM

I think that there's a widespread misconception in the country about prison sentences, which makes it look like we've gone soft on crime. Typically, though with plenty of exceptions, a sentence will be spent half in prison and half on licence after release. Sentencing judges clearly have to take this into account so that, as they see it, the perpetrator will spend an appropriate time "behind bars."

In my view the current case represents a tragic mistake. In the vast majority of cases like this one the "early" release works just fine. We have to ask whether cutbacks in the services that assess, supervise and rehabilitate convicted criminals contribute to the mistakes. Considering that the Tories have been in charge for almost a decade, it is vexatious in the extreme for Johnson to try to blame the last Labour government for the terrorist incident. A shocking misjudgement.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 03:01 PM

Latest polls:

Survation: CON: 42% (+1) LAB: 33% (+3) LDEM: 11% (-4) BREX: 3% (-2)
YouGov: CON: 43% (-) LAB: 34% (+2) LDEM: 13% (-) BREX: 2% (-2)
DeltapollUK: CON: 45% (+2) LAB: 32% (+2) LDEM: 15% (-1) BREX: 3% (-)

PaddyPower Majority Odds (Previous in Brackets):

       Tories: 1/2 (2/5)
       No overall: 7/4 (9/4)
       Labour: 20/1 (20/1)
       Lib Dems: 250/1 (250/1)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 04:18 AM

Brilliant cartoon

In my opinion, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 04:23 AM

I should say I particularly liked the frame about it being a choice between a party that has not addressed anti-Semitism as quickly and thoroughly as it should, and one that has signed up all those who happily call themselves Nazis, since Farage effectively dropped out of the race.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 08:04 AM

From BBC: "Mr Raab suggested it would not be in the US's interests to hike prices if "you reduce the amount, the volume of purchases".


Utter and complete nonsense, of course. A company is interested in profit, not volume of sales. The whole luxury market exists and keeps its prices high precisely by restricting the volume of sales.   

Some markets run on scarcity pricing, some on the "stock 'em high, sell 'em cheap" principle. When you have a monopoly on something, and people's health can depend on your product, going for scarcity pricing can be tempting.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 10:42 AM

Q: How do you know when a Tory is lying?
A: He/she says, “The NHS is not on the table”.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 12:54 PM

6 October 2018
Dianne Abbott was condemned by police last night for claiming that officers are using a ‘disproportionate level of force’ to arrest young black men.
1 hour ago
- The son of Diane Abbott, the Shadow Home Secretary, has been arrested for biting a police officer on Whitehall on Friday.

Does she hoard the household scran for herself only?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 01:49 PM

Mark Thatcher.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Dec 19 - 06:29 AM

I think I prefer someone taking a bite at a policeman to those who have taken massive chunks out of the police force.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 04 Dec 19 - 07:28 AM

Priti Patel wishes to double the penalties for those who attack the police and emergency services. Strange that abbot minor has not hit the headlines! But Guido is Irish based and not subject to UK injunctions.

Meanwhile back at the ranch:
The Muslim Public Affairs Committee‘s (MPAC) campaigning for Labour has been reported to the Electoral Commission and they have been put on legal notice to answer concerns over its possible breaches of election, election finance and data protection laws.

MPAC will also be reported to the police and Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO) if it does not give a satisfactory response to a seven-page legal letter sent on behalf of the new Campaign for Ballot Integrity, chaired by former Labour MP John Woodcock.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Dec 19 - 12:32 PM

I watched the dark satire movie "Death of Stalin" last night..

[going soon from Amazon Prime]

That kinda puts leadership power struggles in perspective...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Dec 19 - 06:09 AM

Burger King marketing guy gets a bonus, I suspect!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 04:19 AM

I decided to sally forth into the Mail Online, the Express and others to see how they are treating the Andew Neil challenge to Mr Johnson. They do mention it, because I suppose they feel they have to, but they seem to have it as low down in the presentation as they can get away with. For example, one thinks a random Question Time audience member pointing out to a Labour panelist that there was a Brexit vote in 2016 is somehow a surprise to him, and so far more newsworthy. Another highlights Fiona Bruce challenging the SNP that the IFS thinks the Scotland might have more austerity if it votes for independence - as if they were not the strongest of supporters of another topic where some people feel that the risk of some austerity is worth it for greater independence.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 06:35 AM

Info on the rats in the sack!
Latest polls:

SavantaComRes: Con: 42% (-1) LAB: 32% (-1) LDEM: 12% (-1) BREX: 3% (-1)

PaddyPower Majority Odds (Previous in Brackets):

       Tories: 2/5 (4/9)
       No overall: 9/4 (15/8)
       Labour: 20/1 (20/1)
       Lib Dems: 250/1 (250/1)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 06:58 AM

I am more than curious if anyone of you have done a 180 or changed their minds since the original Brexit vote??

Or even been nudged right or left??

In my country I have seen the reigious right do a 180 on the teachings of Jesus by supporting trump might over right.

after 5,000 posts or more has anyone changed their minds over anything?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 07:29 AM

I am more than curious if anyone of you have done a 180 or changed their minds since the original Brexit vote??

Or even been nudged right or left??

That's a perfectly fair question. Donuel, but I can only answer for myself. I certainly haven't 180-ed. I doubt very many people do on any topic, but as you say it can happen. Those who do tend to be true zealots for whatever they have switched to, on the few occasions I have met them.

Have I moved further left? To some extent. I have voted for Conservatives in the past on a few occasions. Two that spring to mind: the local Tory MP was hard working and very involved in the local community. He really did his best to work for the constituency and I think that important. So I was happy to let him continue that in the next election. On another occasion I voted against my ward's Labour MP and for the person I thought most likely to defeat him (who was a fairly moderate tory). That MP was a rubber stamp: He voted on party lines 100% of the time and showed not one glimmer of independent thought. That is not how I think a constituency should be represented.

So imagine I was in that position today. Would I have voted for them? Most likely not. Not that my views of them would differ, but that the issue at stake is too great. And I am not just talking Brexit: I mean things like what is becoming known as the 'page 48' issue where the Conservatives appear to be trying to centralise all power in the Executive's hands, weakening Parliament, the courts, the Lords …

Am I far left? Definitely not by European wide standards I am very moderate. While nowhere is perfect, of course, I reckon the Scandinavian countries tend to do things a lot better than we do.

In so far as I am Tory, I am a one nation Tory. By which I mean when deciding whether to do something - support a factory for example - you look at the factory, and the businesses around it, and the impact on costs to the country of people becoming unemployed and so on, and assess the impact on the whole of the UK when making your decision. I contrast this with a mode of thought that asks if that factory is viable in its own right? If not, tough, and we will not think about any consequences for the rest of the country.


I can illustrate this with a discussion I had with Teribus some years back. Someone had mentioned EU airlines have to pay compensation to passengers if it is cancelled and he was strongly against this: it is up to the airline to consider its profitability and cancel or not in line with that. (As it happens, that is how it is done in many parts of the world.)

That is classic free market thinking, not One Nation.

A One Nation Tory says that for destinations apart from holiday makers, almost all the passengers on the plane are businessmen. And they are flying to conferences, to sales presentations, to trade shows and so on. And if they don't show, they are very likely to lose business. The trade show is on the Wednesday: there is no point showing up on the Thursday instead.

So the One Nation Tory says 'how do we share the risk?' And they do so by letting the airlines have a slightly higher fare so it includes a sort of insurance component to cover any refunds that arise. But the refunds required means the point at which it is economic to cancel the plane changes, so they are more likely to fly and these salesmen to get to the trade show and the UK gets more income. That's One Nation thinking.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 07:50 AM

But the refunds required means the point at which it is economic to cancel the plane changes,
In the vast majority of cases the reason the plane is not flying is outside the control of the airline. In aviation especially, safety over rides economic concerns.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 07:57 AM

That does not alter the argument. If it makes you happier, restrict it to those cases where it is the airline's choice. Then apply the argument there.

I should warn you I used to work for the Economic Regulation Group of the UK Civil Aviation Authority - this is not entirely off the top of my head.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 08:11 AM

Thank you DMcG. I realize changing minds is not the point, but over here there are intelligent people who decide to 'go along to get along' and become like vampires, once bitten they are all in.

They become willing to knowingly lie about what they know to be false.
I thought perhaps Russain interference and murder was enough for a few to become extra weary and wary. Here. Trump fatigue has become Trump trauma.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 09:36 AM

Channel 4 have been caught out smearing Boris – by mis-captioning his speech from yesterday and replacing the word ‘talent’ for ‘colour’. Is it any wonder the Tories are waging war with the propagandists…

Boris, speaking in Derbyshire, said he was “in favour of having people of talent come to this country”, however when Channel 4 uploaded the clip they claimed he said “people of colour” – listen for yourself above.

Boris uses the quote so often it could be considered his catchphrase (for example in this BBC interview), yet Channel 4 took it upon themselves to mislead thousands.


https://order-order.com/2019/12/06/channel-4-smears-boris-false-quote/

Very dishonest these lefties!
and for those that deliberately mishear the clip:
6 Dec 2019, 11:55 Updated:
FAKE NEWS Channel 4 forced to issue grovelling apology after subtitle error sparks Boris Johnson racism smears

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 10:05 AM

(order-order.com) utilizes emotionally loaded language
It follows the disinformation campaign protocol known by many.

Still shilling for the russains huh Iains
I expected more desperate measures

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 10:07 AM

While there is no doubt the captioning was a problem, and that went viral, I doubt if it was intentional on the part of C4. It often happens that the captions that are automatically generated get it wrong and then have to be manually corrected. I have seen it many times: one of my favourites was when the presenter said "here are the latest borrowing figures" and the caption came up "Here are the latest boring figures." Mistakes like this happen when you are trying to do this automatically. This is a particularly unfortunate one and C4 corrected it and apologised quickly, but not quite quickly enough to stop those who want to capturing it and making complaints about it (and there may be different people in each group)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 10:13 AM

Make's you wonder if watermelon smiles, piccaninnies, letterboxes etc were all mistakes too.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 10:29 AM

It's a wonder that any caption generator can get the greased albino piglets incoherent babble right. There is that much umming and ahhing amongst the propaganda and senseless drivel that most people would only be able to translate half of it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 11:45 AM

Donuel order order always utilizes sources that can be checked elsewhere. None of the lefties have been able to accuse him of lying. Much as they may wish to.

Labour of course has the damocles of antisemitism hanging over them.
The Jewish Labour Movement’s closing submission to the Equalities and Human Rights Commission has been leaked in full.

The conclusion – based on testimonies of 70 serving and former Labour party officials – damningly says “The Labour Party is no longer a safe space for Jewish people”.

100 additional testimonies from party members say they have suffered or witnessed antisemitism at party events. Labour were desperate to change the final election week’s narrative – this might make that difficult…

Corbynistas were approached this week with anti-Semitic quotes to see if they think the person who said them is fit for office. But there’s a twist! When the Labour activists were told the quotes were said by Boris they said he was unfit for office. Upon being told the truth their squirming is excruciating…
https://order-order.com/2019/12/05/corbynistas-react-think-corbyns-anti-semitism-said-boris/

To this must be added the fact that momentum only tried to register with the electoral commission after being reported by Guido.
Back in Mar 6, 2019 - The Electoral Commission finds Momentum guilty of "multiple breaches", but the group says the fines levied are "disproportionate".(This was for offences committed during the last election in 207)

Slow Learners or what?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 12:03 PM

Donuel, as I am sure you are aware, there are lies, truth and many things in between. These include only telling part of the story, wrapping opinion up as fact and reporting conclusions from just one side of the debate. I have long since decided that anyone involved in such dishonesty is far better ignored. Far be it from me to tell you how to conduct a discussion but I can say that my Mudcat experience has been greatly enhanced by not being goaded into pointless arguments with those who simply want to destroy civilised debate.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 12:38 PM

"..... not being goaded into pointless arguments with those who simply want to destroy civilised debate."

and his idea of civilised debate is:It's a wonder that any caption generator can get the greased albino piglets incoherent babble right.

IpsosMORI: Con: 44% (-) LAB: 32% (+4) LDEM: 13% (-3) BREX: 3% (-)

Looks like magic grandad is taking a bit of a stumble as we enter the final circuit.
In theatrical circles they may say "break a leg"
I will restrict myself to the meaning of the term on the turf!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 12:42 PM

See what I mean, Donuel? I think you could well be right it your assessment

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 01:43 PM

I see the GAP has now cancelled a public appearance for fear of a handful of protesters. Good to see he has courage as well as integrity.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 03:18 PM

I can barely understand the motives and undercurrents of our own politics. All I can say about UK politics are broad brush remarks and possibilities. Still the remarks here taught me the little I know about you guys over there.

For years all I knew is that we broke up by a Dear George letter;
In the course of human events there comes a time...Its not you...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 03:26 PM

Perhaps the gnome should give the complete story concerning Boris:
"Boris Johnson forced to cancel election speech on police advice as protestors mass"
To quote the gnome:"Donuel, as I am sure you are aware, there are lies, truth and many things in between. These include only telling part of the story," A typical lefty, so as I say, not as I do
TSK Tsk!

Bliar blair guilty of agism
Tony Blair takes outrageous swipe at older Brexiteers 'The young have the beating pulse'

This is the same labour pm who initiated privatisation of part of the NHB. A fact magic grandad has conveniently forgotten.
heguardian.com › society › feb › health.politics
(Feb 15, 2006 - Tony Blair today welcomed 11 private healthcare providers into the NHS... companies delivering the first wave of independent sector treatment centres (ISTCs). ... union fears that ISTCs would lead to the privatisation of the NHS)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 04:51 PM

Well the telly "debate" was a bloody travesty. Nick Robinson (arch-Tory, former chairman of the Young Conservatives), allowed Johnson to get away with lie after blustering bullying lie, completely uninterrupted. An honest-to-goodness chair would have pulled him up every time he told an established lie, but he didn't do it even once. Corbyn made his case well but without the passion and spin that seems crucial in these populist times. The BBC, which I've always supported unstintingly, has behaved shambolically during this campaign. A bloody disgrace. As if we need a failure of neutrality when all the press big guns are as far right as they've ever been. Democracy in decline if we're not vigilant.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 07:48 PM

Forget about Brexit. The thought of the Tories winning another five years in power is frightening. That's what the election should really be about.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 08:30 PM

The best hope is that he'll be denied an overall majority, or, at worst, gain a wafer-thin majority. We mustn't give up hope...x

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 08:48 PM

That was not a kiss!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Dec 19 - 01:15 AM

One site that will give everyone a good idea of how much BoJo and his band can be trusted. I have put it up before but it is well worth repeating

https://boris-johnson-lies.com/

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Dec 19 - 02:21 AM

Anyone would think that the sun shines out of corbyn's arse and his shit doesn't stink!! I dislike johnson only slightly less but a less than tory government is unthinkable.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 07 Dec 19 - 02:22 AM

polling suggests tovarisch Compo had a royal rogering during the debate.
His party has also slipped 2 percentage points in the polls.
Does magic grandad have any more rabbits to pull out of the hat? His last two of the bliar and grey man are driving people wholesale to the tories.
3 cheers for Boris the nemesis of lefties!
Will I be supping champagne or hemlock after the election?
There's many a slip twixt cup and lip!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Dec 19 - 03:59 AM

Leaving the wild interpretations aside, the YouGov polpls show that the results are within the margin of error. So the only honest response is that the poll is too close to call.

As with all polls, the figures are weighted to represent as best they can the wider population, rather than the people interviewed. It is not clear whether the weighting is based on the whole population or their prediction of how many will vote. However, looking at the age ranges most were barely weighted at all, but the youth vote was significantly weighted against. It is by no means clear this is a good representation.

People need to look at such things before leaping in with "what the polls show."

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Dec 19 - 05:07 AM

Our ultra conservative votes posted!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Dec 19 - 05:21 AM

I have it on good authority that your dog rogered the postman as he was emptying the box, snatched your postal votes and ate them. Tsk. Better luck next time!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Dec 19 - 05:31 AM

I know, sad isn't it!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Dec 19 - 05:34 AM

Can't be easy living with a hard-left pooch...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 07 Dec 19 - 05:46 AM

IpsosMORI: Con: 44% (-) LAB: 32% (+4) LDEM: 13% (-3) BREX: 3% (-)

PaddyPower Majority Odds (Previous in Brackets):
       Labour: 25/1 (20/1)


Looking good for Boris. Fingers crossed!

Is compo in the twilight zone?

https://capx.co/life-after-corbyn-what-next-for-labour/

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Dec 19 - 06:26 AM

Yes fingers crossed!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Mossback
Date: 07 Dec 19 - 10:04 AM

Alexandra Hall Hall, the British diplomat in charge of explaining Brexit to the US government, Congress and public, has resigned, saying she was no longer prepared to “peddle half-truths on behalf of a government I do not trust”.

Nile Gardiner, director for the Margaret Thatcher Centre for Freedom at the Heritage Foundation in Washington, said: “It is very, very disappointing to see a British diplomat not implementing the official policy of their government.”

Dear God - the "Margaret Thatcher Centre For Freedom" ?????

You couldn't make this shit up..........

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: peteglasgow
Date: 07 Dec 19 - 10:04 AM

there's a thoroughly splendid rant on facebook by jonathan pie on boris johnson and his total complicity on the tory -shit show- if anyone has the ability to put it on here....? while it is a fair distillation of my feelings for the tories over the last 45 years, i am thinking it is time i tried to adopt a more laid-back attitude . it's better for my health to just laugh at the vermin - or ignore them as much as possible

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Dec 19 - 10:13 AM

Johnathan Pie rant, as requested.