BS: US thread, Politics and political

Subject: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 08:54 AM

I know why this thread may disappear in days. Americans are suffering from Trump fatigue to the point of completely giving up.
The unfathomable ignorance has no bottom.
We are shell shocked into submission.
All we can do is to ignore.
We need to look away.
We know it is
at our own
peril.
But
There will
be a renewed
interest as the election
is called into question or even be done.
All the dirty tricks in the book will be in full force.
The absurdity is to the point of abbandoning the sinking ship.
Twice in the last 2 Republican Presidents the US is robbed by bail outs

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:06 AM

A challenge.

As repulsive as it is, look at the most recent photo of Trump you can find.
COMPARE to photo of Donald getting off the bus at Access Hollwood after his pussy remarks.

You will see two different men or you will see a dreadful deterioration.

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Barb'ry
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:14 AM

Sorry, Donuel, this post seems to be a clone of the one started last night. Could you copy your posts over to the 'real' one, please.

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Barb'ry
Date: 25 Apr 20 - 06:29 PM

I am so sorry, I closed this thread because I read the title without my glasses on/ when I was tired and mistook it for a replica UK politics post. Again, my apologies.

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Apr 20 - 03:37 AM

I the kingdom of the blind the one-eyed woman is queen
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Apr 20 - 04:00 AM

I said this on the UK thread but it's more suitable here

A clergyman who injected himself with Domestos on the advice of the president has died. His family are sueing Trump for a bleach of the priest.

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Apr 20 - 04:15 AM

That's all white then
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Apr 20 - 04:51 AM

A bit beyond the Pale though
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: keberoxu
Date: 26 Apr 20 - 08:59 AM

Who was it who spoke of
"leading lives of quiet desperation?"

Okay,
maybe not so quiet of late ...

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Apr 20 - 11:01 AM

We are entering the End of Growth.

Even Wall Street is mortal. As they are buying up clinics and Dr. Offices and various medical practices it is more than apparent that they are only parasites on the suffering to serve owners. This despicable practice will alter the concept oh life and death by markets and will create such anger that no security or army can protect Wall Street's amoral greed.
Perhaps this is news to you. This goes way beyond the advent of HMOs.

When Wall Street has a profit stake in your death at the most expensive rate, Guess what they will choose. The price of life AND death will go up. Yep its like private Insurance companies but much bigger.

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Apr 20 - 11:06 AM

It will look similar to the death of family farms.

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Apr 20 - 11:36 AM

The business of death is good and growing so Wall St. wants a piece of the action.

What did you expect? I am not a big corporate take over fan.

They already have much of the Earth, Wind, Fire and Oceans, now they want Blood Sweat and Tears.

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: keberoxu
Date: 26 Apr 20 - 01:55 PM

Well, we all know that
Bernie Sanders will never take over the Oval office.
Having determined that,
I am really curious to see
where he will end up
when the smoke clears

(is it too much to hope
that the smoke will clear
by New Year's Eve?).

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Apr 20 - 03:24 PM

Cartoon:

Panel 1: 2 people, one says Let's not talk politics, it's too depressing. Other says ok.

Panel 2: 2 silent people.

Panel 3: 1st person starts It's just that (2nd person interrupts) THOSE FUCKING IDIOTS!

Non-partisan. Both sides having that alla time.

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 02:06 AM

From Fintan O’Toole in The Irish Times, Saturday 25th April, 2020. The IT is paywalled, so the article is C&P’d here without comment...

”THE WORLD HAS LOVED, HATED AND ENVIED THE U.S. NOW, FOR THE FIRST TIME, WE PITY IT

Over more than two centuries, the United States has stirred a very wide range of feelings in the rest of the world: love and hatred, fear and hope, envy and contempt, awe and anger. But there is one emotion that has never been directed towards the US until now: pity.

However bad things are for most other rich democracies, it is hard not to feel sorry for Americans. Most of them did not vote for Donald Trump in 2016. Yet they are locked down with a malignant narcissist who, instead of protecting his people from Covid-19, has amplified its lethality. The country Trump promised to make great again has never in its history seemed so pitiful.

Will American prestige ever recover from this shameful episode? The US went into the coronavirus crisis with immense advantages: precious weeks of warning about what was coming, the world’s best concentration of medical and scientific expertise, effectively limitless financial resources, a military complex with stunning logistical capacity and most of the world’s leading technology corporations. Yet it managed to make itself the global epicentre of the pandemic.

As the American writer George Packer puts it in the current edition of the Atlantic, “The United States reacted ... like Pakistan or Belarus – like a country with shoddy infrastructure and a dysfunctional government whose leaders were too corrupt or stupid to head off mass suffering.”

It is one thing to be powerless in the face of a natural disaster, quite another to watch vast power being squandered in real time – wilfully, malevolently, vindictively. It is one thing for governments to fail (as, in one degree or another, most governments did), quite another to watch a ruler and his supporters actively spread a deadly virus. Trump, his party and Rupert Murdoch’s Fox News became vectors of the pestilence.

The grotesque spectacle of the president openly inciting people (some of them armed) to take to the streets to oppose the restrictions that save lives is the manifestation of a political death wish. What are supposed to be daily briefings on the crisis, demonstrative of national unity in the face of a shared challenge, have been used by Trump merely to sow confusion and division. They provide a recurring horror show in which all the neuroses that haunt the American subconscious dance naked on live TV.

If the plague is a test, its ruling political nexus ensured that the US would fail it at a terrible cost in human lives. In the process, the idea of the US as the world’s leading nation – an idea that has shaped the past century – has all but evaporated.

Other than the Trump impersonator Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil, who is now looking to the US as the exemplar of anything other than what not to do? How many people in Düsseldorf or Dublin are wishing they lived in Detroit or Dallas?

It is hard to remember now but, even in 2017, when Trump took office, the conventional wisdom in the US was that the Republican Party and the broader framework of US political institutions would prevent him from doing too much damage. This was always a delusion, but the pandemic has exposed it in the most savage ways.

Abject surrender
What used to be called mainstream conservatism has not absorbed Trump – he has absorbed it. Almost the entire right-wing half of American politics has surrendered abjectly to him. It has sacrificed on the altar of wanton stupidity the most basic ideas of responsibility, care and even safety.

Thus, even at the very end of March, 15 Republican governors had failed to order people to stay at home or to close non-essential businesses. In Alabama, for example, it was not until April 3rd that governor Kay Ivey finally issued a stay-at-home order.

In Florida, the state with the highest concentration of elderly people with underlying conditions, governor Ron DeSantis, a Trump mini-me, kept the beach resorts open to students travelling from all over the US for spring break parties. Even on April 1st, when he issued restrictions, DeSantis exempted religious services and “recreational activities”.

Georgia governor Brian Kemp, when he finally issued a stay-at-home order on April 1st, explained: “We didn’t know that [the virus can be spread by people without symptoms] until the last 24 hours.”

This is not mere ignorance – it is deliberate and homicidal stupidity. There is, as the demonstrations this week in US cities have shown, plenty of political mileage in denying the reality of the pandemic. It is fuelled by Fox News and far-right internet sites, and it reaps for these politicians millions of dollars in donations, mostly (in an ugly irony) from older people who are most vulnerable to the coronavirus.

It draws on a concoction of conspiracy theories, hatred of science, paranoia about the “deep state” and religious providentialism (God will protect the good folks) that is now very deeply infused in the mindset of the American right.

Trump embodies and enacts this mindset, but he did not invent it. The US response to the coronavirus crisis has been paralysed by a contradiction that the Republicans have inserted into the heart of US democracy. On the one hand, they want to control all the levers of governmental power. On the other they have created a popular base by playing on the notion that government is innately evil and must not be trusted.

The contradiction was made manifest in two of Trump’s statements on the pandemic: on the one hand that he has “total authority”, and on the other that “I don’t take responsibility at all”. Caught between authoritarian and anarchic impulses, he is incapable of coherence.

Fertile ground
But this is not just Donald Trump. The crisis has shown definitively that Trump’s presidency is not an aberration. It has grown on soil long prepared to receive it. The monstrous blossoming of misrule has structure and purpose and strategy behind it.

There are very powerful interests who demand “freedom” in order to do as they like with the environment, society and the economy. They have infused a very large part of American culture with the belief that “freedom” is literally more important than life. My freedom to own assault weapons trumps your right not to get shot at school. Now, my freedom to go to the barber (“I Need a Haircut” read one banner this week in St Paul, Minnesota) trumps your need to avoid infection.

Usually when this kind of outlandish idiocy is displaying itself, there is the comforting thought that, if things were really serious, it would all stop. People would sober up. Instead, a large part of the US has hit the bottle even harder.

And the president, his party and their media allies keep supplying the drinks. There has been no moment of truth, no shock of realisation that the antics have to end. No one of any substance on the US right has stepped in to say: get a grip, people are dying here.

That is the mark of how deep the trouble is for the US – it is not just that Trump has treated the crisis merely as a way to feed tribal hatreds but that this behaviour has become normalised. When the freak show is live on TV every evening, and the star is boasting about his ratings, it is not really a freak show any more. For a very large and solid bloc of Americans, it is reality.

And this will get worse before it gets better. Trump has at least eight more months in power. In his inaugural address in 2017, he evoked “American carnage” and promised to make it stop. But now that the real carnage has arrived, he is revelling in it. He is in his element.

As things get worse, he will pump more hatred and falsehood, more death-wish defiance of reason and decency, into the groundwater. If a new administration succeeds him in 2021, it will have to clean up the toxic dump he leaves behind. If he is re-elected, toxicity will have become the lifeblood of American politics.

Either way, it will be a long time before the rest of the world can imagine America being great again.”

Discuss...

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 02:22 AM

Yeah, Backwoodsman. We're sure screwed up. We can make excuses about how the Republicans manipulated the Electoral College and won the 2016 election by losing by 3 million votes, but how did we ever have even 46.1 percent of our voters vote for somebody like that? (Clinton had 48.2%).

I really can't understand the madness that rules such a large part of the country. The entire middle of the US voted for Trump, and they still support him despite all his idiocy.

And those are good people in the middle of the country, the "heartland." They used to all be Democrats. What happened?

-Joe-

P.S. The article you posted is excellent. I have seen few better descriptions of the plight the United States faces.

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 02:51 AM

Whilst we Brits have a habit of poking fun at Trump and the US in general, Joe, I do believe that the majority of us feel desperately sad that the nation we’ve admired since we were kids seems to have wilfully inflicted on itself such damage, culminating in the election to the position of the most powerful man on Earth (and, I suspect, the re-election, later this year) of a monster whose sole interests are in money and his own ‘ratings’ (whatever that means).

I think the O’Toole article sums up the situation you have over there perfectly. That’s not to say that I believe the Brits can claim any degree of superiority - we’ve elected our own master of deceit and slave to avarice who has led us out of the world’s largest trading-bloc and sat on his hands while Covid-19 took hold here.

But I do wonder if the supporters of Trump and Johnson realise that we are in danger of becoming seen by the rest of the civilised world as joint village-idiots?

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 03:43 AM

"seen by the rest of the civilised world as joint village-idiots?"
Unfortunately, Trump's admirers aren't confined to Britain
Despite his open outbursts of antisemitism and his drawing support from historically the oldest and most violent antisemitic and racist group in recent history, the Israeli Government are intending to name a railway station in his honour.
Even considering the shadow-boxing and posturing, Putin's 'Free' Russia and Trump's America are world running-mates - or will be when the dust settles
The resistible rise of the ultra-right in Europe is bound to look for international leadership and inspiration when it gets its act together - perhaps they will succeed where LePen has failed (so far)
This goes far beyond a 'laughing stock' I'm afraid
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 09:23 AM

"You can't hide in a corner when you are in the oval office."

This pun was said to Trump when interviewed in the Oval Office during his first week in office.
He did not get it. Instead he remarked there was no place for an intruder to hide outside. He still did not get it even when the pun was explained that the Oval Office had no corners. Then several seconds later he looked shaken and awkwardly changed the subject.

He was confused then and he is confused now.

As long as 3 branches of government tries to hide that Trump is a danger to himself and others, the more obvious it is to everyone including his supporters.

Even a 5 year old can break things but are unable to fix anything except TV ratings. Honey Boo boo proved that.

For rational people who believe in proof and facts I ask you,
do we have enough proof and facts yet?



That being asked, how many european young people know about the Marshall plan?

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 09:35 AM

SOME PEOPLE HAVE IT RIGHT
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 09:44 AM

Another county heard from

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/27/lysol/

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 10:04 AM

The US has a political system that works quite well when most of both major parties follow the rules and.... at least formally.... put the country's interests first. We also supposedly have laws and aspects of the Constitution that protect us against dishonest & rogue politicians.

The problem is, we never expected or planned for an administration in which a totally self-serving and incompetent president would install a cabinet filled with incompetent and self-serving sycophants and spend 2-3 years purging everyone he could who crossed him.... ending up with an Attorney General who lied at his confirmation and proceeded to sabotage attempts to get at the truth. Add a leader of the Senate whose major goal in life is to pack the Federal courts with Republican judges, and we are left with nothing but an election under awkward circumstances to get us out of this mess..... and in the meantime, this corrupt administration is doing everything possible to limit voting rights for those who might repeat that popular vote of 4 years ago!

   The USA is a bold experiment in some combination of a democracy and a republic. It has had many successes... and a few failures. IF... I say IF.. we can overturn this travesty of an administration AND win back the senate, there will be efforts to shore up the rules which allowed this mess to happen.... beginning with dumping the electoral college and seriously curtailing Gerrymandering.

Wish us luck...

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Mossback
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 10:07 AM

Two articles worth a read in their entirety, excerpts follow:

Trump reveals our staggering incompetence before the whole world

by Heather Digby Parton / Salon April 27, 2020

...Now the country that sent men to the moon and brought them home again, all the way back in the 1960s, is a fumbling mess, unable to manage the simple logistics of getting supplies from one place to another or coordinating a national set of guidelines in a public health crisis...

Donald Trump is a completely incompetent leader — we know this. Literally any other president would have done a better job.

But it’s not just him, is it? The U.S. government seems to have lost its capacity to act, and the private sector is so invested in short-term profit-making that it’s lost its innovative edge. The result is that the United States of America, formerly the world’s leader in science and technology, now only leads the world in gruesome statistics and body counts.

The country that planned the D-Day invasion is incapable of coordinating the delivery of medical supplies to New York City? Apparently so.

https://www.alternet.org/2020/04/trump-reveals-our-staggering-incompetence-before-the-whole-world/

-------------------

Trump and the coronavirus have exposed America as a declining empire: Time to face the facts.

by Andrew O'Hehir, April 26, 2020 5:08PM (UTC)

...It isn't just that the U.S. response to the pandemic has been among the worst of any major nation — OK, let's make that clearly the worst — utterly bereft of coherent national leadership. With barely 4% of the world's population, the U.S. has by far the largest share of COVID-19 cases and deaths, and is apparently about to risk a second upward spike in both statistics.

...our dysfunctional government has flung billions at big corporations and one monthly paycheck at regular folks, followed by the stupidest and starkest form of social-Darwinist choice: Go broke or risk your life.

...one thing is for sure: We need to stop pretending that America after the coronavirus, and after the Trump presidency, will be the same kind of nation it was before, with the same role of more-or-less unquestioned global dominance. We have deluded ourselves far too long on that front already. There is no making America great again, and it's time to move past that. But there's a real chance to make a better future for this country and the world.

https://www.salon.com/2020/04/26/trump-and-the-coronavirus-have-exposed-america-as-a-declining-empire-lets-face-that-honestly/

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 10:19 AM

The problem started (I could be wrong) when McConnell denied Obama anything. Then it was a war with the Republican Senate, and they refused to see the correctness in ANYTHING Democrats put forward. He and the Repubs couldn't care less about the American people, because they have a hard-core crowd of idiots who think it's a pro wrestling match behind him.
Seriously, I think if McConnell goes, EVERYTHING will change.

It helps me to be aware that this is only one moment in time. It's historically significant, and will likely prompt assertions of "never again", and it sucks in the moment, but it will pass. (I just hope they don't do crippling damage to the Constitution in the meantime.)

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 10:22 AM

HERE MRRZY

Jim

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 10:58 AM

Jeri... the problem started when the Republican candidates in 2016 were such a motley crew that they couldn't figger out how to cope with Trump's appeal to the baser instincts of the party. Several of them clearly stated how unappealing he was, but the problem was exacerbated when he actually sneaked in and their tone changed to obsequious nonsense and began giving them presents of judges and legislative coups. By the time his weaknesses were obvious, there was no way to gracefully back down and return to their pre-nomination positions.

... and maybe the problem 'started' with the Dixiecrats in the 60s..or with Karl Rove's plan to establish a can't-lose Republican dynasty.. or maybe there's a way to explain Trump with a metaphor about this virus sneaking in when people were careless ... or...or... or...

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 11:17 AM

I think the trouble started when people began to believe that WWE was real

Trump was clever enough to pick up on that and campaigned as if the presidential election was a wrestling match. Just watch his performances with the Hilary Clinton debates. Sadly, it worked :-(

As someone said earlier though, us Brits have no room to talk about leaders in the Walter Kitty mold!

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 11:20 AM

We're not just fighting this virus we have to overcome the stupidity of our CinC. He's already deleted his Noble (sic) Prize tweets from a weekend rant against Pulitzer Prize-winning journalists. Scary to contemplate.-

Politico

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 11:54 AM

Tying into Bill's comment that Republicans were all in for the presents and tax cuts the deconstruction of government as outlined by Bannon continued. Although Bannon is in Italy fomenting devotees to ready for more nationalistic dictatorships, the US damgage continues.
Sometimes you need government to deal with crises.
Amateurs were put in charge and experts were fired.
Mostly positions were not filled in the thousands.

All this seems too resolute, clever and strategic in how to break the government for a Donald Trump to implement. A master plan or outline to discredit the CIA and the press is one thing but a deliberate incremental planned assault takes the hand of a power behind the golden throne. This is not all Steve Millers work in my opinion. Dare I say Putin or neo nazi Bannon?

Waving a Trump flag as the focus of fame or rage is part of the distraction plan. This feels like a surrnder to a coup by intimidation of a credible threat.

Or sometimes a cigar is just a penis.

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Mossback
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 11:54 AM

Regardless of where "the problem" started, it was helped along immeasurably by the Repubs. infamous "Southern Strategy" and by Reagan's senile "government is the problem". The Gipper is father to the Trump.

However, the REAL cause was explained by Isaac Asimov some years ago:

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-iltellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through out political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

Trump, Republi-Trumpism and the Trump Cult in a nutshell.

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 12:06 PM

What do we call it when the intelligesia is attacked/fired and the ignorant take over?

Its pretty smart for ignorance to beat intelligence at every turn.

Conservative think tanks must have been burning the midnight oil.

Didn't it take a great depression for Hitler to win?

When will they introduce the fourth reich by name?

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 12:08 PM

In Britain, at least, it's often the case that describing a person as "an intellectual" is intended as a sneer.

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 12:26 PM

Trump is, to some degree, the price we're paying for having had a black president. His gang knew how to exploit the deep-seated racism still extant in this country and they couldn't have found a better mouthpiece than this bunko man.

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 12:28 PM

Bill, the partisan "war" started before 2016. Or maybe you don't want to count them denying Obama's appointment of a Supreme Court judge? I think that's when it became "us vs. them" instead of "we're here to serve the American people".

AND the went from being deficit hawks to piling on the debt so they could put more money in rich guys pockets. (Yeah, we need reforms of campaign contribution laws.)

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 12:33 PM

The touchstone, the lingus, the holy grail and final solution of Trumpism is racism.

So a potential US dictatorship is not in anyones line of sight?

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 12:53 PM

Jeri.. I'm not sure whether to count the denial of Obama's SCOTUS nomination as a serious starting point by itself, or as merely a sub-category of basic McConnellism. Remember McConnell announced his plan before Obama even made a choice!



And, they have always yelled about debt when Democrats funded anything, then spent even more doing less...

My treatise on the various forms of causality will explain the difficulty in correlating the categories.. due out in..oh, a few years...

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 12:58 PM

McConnell would do a rapid about-face if in his last few months Trump had the opportunity to name another Supreme Court Justice. No waiting for the next guy to do it.

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: keberoxu
Date: 29 Apr 20 - 08:05 PM

To watch clusters of contiguous states forming coalitions
in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic restrictions,
working together to coordinate the re-opening of
'non-essential' employment and businesses etc. :

this suggests the shape of the pieces
into which this nation may fracture,
in the not too distant future.

Then all the fractured jigsaw puzzle pieces
will have to learn how to get along with each other,
without one centralized government.

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Apr 20 - 08:26 PM

keberoxu...That's a pretty negative speculation. Is it just your worrisome idea, or is it something others have said?

How is this different from the variable ways individual states already operate? Currently, we only HAVE a centralized government in certain federal ways, "States Rights" have dominated many operating practices for a long time... guns, abortions, liquor laws, death penalty, Gerrymandering, election & voting rules... etc.

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Apr 20 - 08:02 AM

Biden accused of sexual assault of Harvey Wienstien? 8*o

The orange bankruptcy King wants blue states to illegally declare bankruptcy so corporations will not have to pay for pensions, or be able to pay police and firemen.

Since the small business bail out money went to the Lakers and Ritz Carlton types until it ran out, the real small business' without the best lawyers are looking at bankruptcy in the many thousands.

The administration has ordered some workers back to work before he gets a no liability law passed by Republicans so workers can't sue for dieing. Ah oh.

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Apr 20 - 08:33 AM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/29/business/meat-processing-plant-workers-reaction-executive-order/index.html

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: gillymor
Date: 30 Apr 20 - 08:35 AM

McConnell is facing a serious challenge in Kentucky from likely Democratic candidate Amy McGrath, who has raised more money than Moscow Mitch this year. In light of his blue state bailouts and suggesting states declare bankruptcy comments and with trump nosediving he's probably more vulnerable than ever. If I ever get my stimulus check (held up so trump could get his name on it and include a campaign letter) a chunk will go to "f***ing" Biden and some will go to McGrath, whom I don't know much about but jettisoning MM is almost as essential to the preservation of our Democracy as dumping trump.

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Apr 20 - 09:13 AM

Yeah, thanks, I saw that too.

My trumpian friends, of which I have 2, are shutting up a lot more lately, so I have hopes for them.

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Apr 20 - 05:48 PM

I have been being silly latly butnot as silly as https://www.the-sun.com/news/659745/david-icke-coronavirus-5g-conspiracy-theory/

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 01 May 20 - 09:38 AM

Paul Krugman says our economy is in a sort of medically induced coma.
Our relief programs have huge problems of instrumentation run through state officesthat areoverwhelmed.. White collar teleworkers are fine but hourly employees are suffering. State and local governments are facing tremendous stresses. Small business did not go to who needed it but went to big bussiness.

However; There is no danger of hyper inflation.
Red States that have no income tax but rely on sales tax and will suffer the most because Consumer spending has fallen off the cliff.
The market was saved by the Federal Reserve.

The US political discussion is between defensible ideas and arguments that have no good faith and are things we know are false like tax cuts pay for themselves or that deficit spending leads to disaster - all ideas that proved false and should have been killed off years ago.

Advanced countries (US, UK, Japan) that borrow on their own currency out grow their debt over time because interest rates are below the GDP growth curve. The Us had a 100% debt in relation to GDP after WWII and never had to pay it back since we outgrew it.

-Don't argue with Zombies.- their ideas died long ago.

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 01 May 20 - 05:34 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Maher
From: Bill D - PM
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 10:50 AM

If you listen closely to Carlin arguing with a conservative {zombie}, you will discover 2 very different basic modes of making a point. The conservative states his version to be true and denies as rubbish the accusations of Carlin's 'liberal' view..... Carlin, in turn, lays out point after point demonstrating in detail what he means, then summarizes it. The conservative then makes MORE generalized denials using prefabricated talking points with almost no references that support them. It becomes asserted facts versus evasive hyperbole.
   Sadly, there are far too many who are too easily taken in by easy-to-follow hype and propaganda rather than following and researching the details of a more complex explanation.

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 May 20 - 09:33 AM

What about Biden?

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 02 May 20 - 10:13 AM

He handled himself poorly on Morning Joe show.
His clips clean up his presentation.

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: gillymor
Date: 02 May 20 - 10:29 AM

What about Biden?

The choice this fall is between either a possible female abuser or a well-documented one who is also lazy, stupid, incompetent, corrupt, mendacious, greedy, inhumane, anti-democratic, anti-American, (I could go on) who doesn't care how many decent people he has to trample to get what he wants.

That answers that question for me.

Subject: RE: BS: US thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 03 May 20 - 11:29 AM

The election between 2 senile delinquents will not be about policy.
It will be about culture, hatreds and "if mot for me things will get worse".

It won't be about policy to make things better, although it should.

The biggest Biden advantage is that he truly knows how a successful executive branch works. Bernie was never allowed to play those reindeer games and never was assigned to the most meaningful comittees.