BS: corpse found on the queen's estate

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 05:48 AM

Of course there's a difference, Joe - and I'm perfectly aware of it. I just thought the thread was verging on the callous.

Who gives a toss about so-called Royal connections or any stupidity supposedly connected with it or them. Bunkum.

If Dmitrijeva is a name you can't pronounce, then try: Duh-Mee-Tree-YEva. Not too hard after all.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 05:53 AM

You might feel more empathy Joe if you had seen her face smiling out of her picture on every news report, as we have over here.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: maeve
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 06:31 AM

Some thoughts on empathy:

"If we are to love our neighbors, before doing anything else we must see our neighbors. With our imagination as well as our eyes, that is to say like artists, we must see not just their faces but the life behind and within their faces. Here it is love that is the frame we see them in."
― Frederick Buechner, Whistling in the Dark: A Doubter's Dictionary

"Anyone who has experienced a certain amount of loss in their life has empathy for those who have experienced loss."
Anderson Cooper

"The discoveries of how we can grow and the insights we need to have really come from the inside out. To have genuine empathy, not as a make-nice tool but as an understanding, is essential to the next step."
Patricia Sun

"Self-absorption in all its forms kills empathy, let alone compassion. When we focus on ourselves, our world contracts as our problems and preoccupations loom large. But when we focus on others, our world expands. Our own problems drift to the periphery of the mind and so seem smaller, and we increase our capacity for connection - or compassionate action."
― Daniel Goleman, Social Intelligence: The New Science of Human Relationships

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 07:49 AM

"Lots of problems in the world would not exist if each person's web of respect and compassion stretched far enough to allow them to imagine the circumstances of distant individuals, of other species, even of the planet, more vividly and with some empathy."

That is absolutely right. Bad taste is bad taste end of story. having a private joke may be fair enough but when you put something on a public forum you should be aware that it may offend. Likewise in the media now some appear totally unaware of how cruel they are being and beleive it is those who would take offence that are to blame

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/highlands-islands/285752-matthew-wright-sparks-outrage-over-lewis-murder-comments/

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: theleveller
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 07:54 AM

"Maybe I'm being overly sensitive, but I see the Queen as the focal point of the British people. She represents the people of Britain; she's not just another well born person.
I'm not as fond of some of her relatives, but hell, I'm not fond of some of MY relatives.
When you knock the Queen, you knock Britain, in my opinion."


What rubbish! At best the monarchy is an irrelevance, at worst an expensive and socially divisive anachronism. Don't forget that we have, in the past, nor been averse to cutting of the monarch's head.

Anyway, this murder has nothing to do with the monarchy except for the fact that the body was found on a royal estate. It brings to mind the song Poor Murdered Woman. I hope that, unlike the song, the culprit is swiftly brought to justice.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: kendall
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 07:54 AM

Part of being a Liberal is the ability to accept the differences in other people.
I'm glad to be a Liberal.

The Queen was in Ireland at the same time I was there. She got all the publicity. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 08:02 AM

Al, my comments were nothing to do with royal family. I don't give a toss about them. I just think it's odd and bit sick that people are joking about some poor kid getting killed, that's all. I think Will expressed what I think better than I did, though.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 08:12 AM

And add my condolences to Alisa Dmitrijeva's family and friends.

So, who was the murderer and what was the weapon used?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: theleveller
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 08:19 AM

"Part of being a Liberal is the ability to accept the differences in other people."

That rules the Windsors out, then.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: kendall
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 09:56 AM

Thar rules out all conservatives.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 02:20 PM

The latest info I could find is one day old.

We don't know that her death was a homicide. It could have been suicide or a drug overdose. Perhaps somebody put her body in the woods because they didn't want to be associated with it.

Who? somebody like a drug dealer, a pimp, a back-alley abortionist, an abusive boyfriend, for starters. Poor kid.

When I saw some of the offensive remarks above about the death of a 17-year-old, I realized why some of the young put on scary armor - tattoos, piercings, crazy hairdos - to scare people like me away.

I was in the railway station in Edmonton a few months ago. Across from me was a teenage girl with all of the above. She glanced across at me with pure loathing in her eyes. She probably thought I'm the kind of person who don't care if teenagers die, but she was wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: gnu
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 02:35 PM

"I just think it's odd and bit sick that people are joking about some poor kid getting killed, that's all."

AGAIN, I missed those jokes. And I have read every post on this thread. All of the jokes I read were about the Royals.

Anyone care to point out ONE SINGLE JOKE made about the young girl's death? Go ahead. Do it. Explain it.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 02:44 PM

gnu ~~ the jokes above about the royals were all predicated on the fact that they must have murdered the unfortunate young woman because her body was found on her land ~~ heeheehee, how very witty!; so that she came, by a sort of synechdoche or association, merely a part of the joke: her corpse was paid no respect in itself, & hence neither was she as a person, but merely used as an occasion for some facetious remarks, in IMO vile taste, about the royals. So the jokes were about her at that: she was an implicit, & most disrespectfully integrated, part of them.

Do you really not get this?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 02:56 PM

Gnu, the jokes involve the discovery of a (probably murdered) young woman's body on the Sandringham Estate. Whilst the jokes might appear to be aimed at the Royal Family, they are made against the background of the tragic death of a young woman in a country far from her home.

They are insensitive and tasteless, and would be just as insensitive and tasteless if the girl had been found on the White House lawn and jokes were being posted about which member of the Obama family did it. The girl was someone's daughter, and is being grieved over by those who loved her. Rather than thinking about tasteless jokes, it would be better if the 'comedians' thought about what she might have gone through leading up to her death.

Anyone who doesn't understand that really is a sausage short of a barbecue.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: kendall
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 04:00 PM

One use for humor is to use it as a shield against a horror.
It's like fainting, an escape mechanism.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: gnu
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 04:58 PM

Sooorry... not a hope that your logic says in ANY way that ANYone made a joke about the poor girl. That's what I asked youse to do. That is ALL I asked youse to do. Youse can't. What don't YOUSE understand about that?

AND, inferring some sort of twisted guilt by some illogical association regarding YOUR inferences is extremely disturbing to me.

Get thee a rope and hang thyselves yet again. (Ah, I could say it in a much more concise manner but that would simply be played into more wet fodder for your canons.)

Twist it, play it, anyway you want it, that's all right with me. Fact is, I will joke about The Royals ANY time I want to do so. NObody can tell me any of the posts to date were making a joke about the (possible) murder of a young girl. When youse say that, youse are the ones who are illogical, incorrect and, simply, rude and arrogant in your attacks on myself and others.

The posts stand for themselves.

One last time... I have seen NO jokes made about the girl. Neither have you.

gnightgnu

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 05:29 PM

Oh, for crying out loud, gnu. The girl is the

McGuffin.

Live with it. Otherwise go away & commune with yourself. I think it's maybe time for a game of, gnu goes away to hide and nobody goes to look for him.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 05:41 PM

MGM - how dare you accuse me of perpetrating a synechdoche? What sort of filthy devil do you take me for.......?

Sir, you go too far!

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 05:42 PM

22.41pm and still no Dick.......

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 05:44 PM

Oh, Al ~~ Grovel grovel grovel :::\\\

I meant, of course, a metonomy...

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 05:55 PM

Hang it up, gnu. None of us are stupid enough to accept your nitpicking argument.

If the victim had been a 40-year old male in a business suit, there would have been no jokes at all.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Jack Campin
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 05:55 PM

This is not the first time in recent years that a young woman from the Baltic has been found murdered in Britain:

Jolanta Bledaite

There probably isn't a pattern (in that Bledaite's killers were psychos acting in isolation) but people in the UK are likely to react "oh not again" in a way that US bystanders won't.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 06:22 PM

'If the victim had been a 40-year old male in a business suit, there would have been no jokes at all.'

found on the Queens pheasant shoot - YOU have to be joking.

How to explain Sandringham......

I was taken there as a child to watch the Royal family walk across the park to church. Its like ....the holy of holys for Royal watchers. generations of Royals have lived in Sandringham House, and hunted in the beautiful grounds.

To have a murder case plumped in the middle of it, is like drawing a red nose on the unicorn.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: gnu
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 09:42 PM

Go away? Nitpicking? ME????

Youse still have not addressed my simple question. It's not rocket science. It's simply logic. I asked... youse cannot answer. Just saying I am "wrong" and stunned and "should go away" and that I do not understand is illogical. You have no arguement. I NEVER and NObody ever, on this thread, made any jokes that any of youse accuse of having been made re the deceased.

IF you can prove me wrong, do it. (Yes, I repeat myself... dunno why I have to do so????)

If you can't, as you have not be able to since I asked you to do same, I believe an apology to myself and others is in order.

Seriously, think of what your posts are saying to the world who can read them. Mine was a joke about the Royals. Yours are personal attacks against me and others which are unfounded and unwarrented.

BTW... WTF is a "McGuffin"?

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 12:18 AM

Thanks Gnu, you proved me right, twice. Definitely a sausage short.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 12:21 AM

The McGuffin was a term coined by film director Alfred Hitchcock. The McGuffin was what the plot of a film was ostensibly about. Spies after government secrets, a missing diamond, the vital evidence, the search for buried treasure, etc.

What the film was really about (in Hitchcock's view) were the characters and atmosphere that the actors and directors, lighting people, script writers, music composers, etc. could create.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 12:26 AM

Oh, BTW, here's your answer (if you have the wit and sensitivity to understand it which, on the evidence of the posts you've made on here, I strongly doubt) - McGuffin

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 12:27 AM

The McGuffin was Alfred Hitchcock's coinage: Chambers Dictionary ~ "the element of a film, book, &c, that drives or provides the excuse for the action". Online Urban Dict: "a plot device that has no specific meaning or purpose other than to advance the story; any situation that motivates the action of a film either artificially or substantively".

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 12:27 AM

Can't you sleep either, Al? :-)
Is it dark down in Dorset?

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 12:31 AM

Mike...another insomniac! Mornin' buddy!

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: gnu
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 02:29 PM

Backwoodsman... another personal attack?... and you still have no answer to my question because there isn't one? Shove your sausage up your ass.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 03:08 PM

Gnu, you know and I know that taking advantage of Alisa's death to make silly, carping remarks about the royal family is tasteless and callow.

Some people have obviously seen too many fake deaths on TV and movies and fail to grasp reality. We know that such callowness is common on the Internet, but real catters like you and me are expected to meet a higher standard.

Backwoodsman, you go too far. Gnu isn't acting crazy, he's merely being a little too legal minded. Could happen to anybody.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: gnu
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 03:53 PM

To reittttterate... MY point is that I and others were accused of making jokes about THE death. That did not happen. I am NOT arguing about jokes about The Royals being "off". I NEVER have. Indeed, I have stated that I will make jokes about them whenever I want to. If that is a problem with anybody, sue me. Call me tasteless and callow if you want but don't lie and say I am stunned and should go away. Apples and oranges. WHO doesn't get it?

Fact is, I, and every reader herein, can see that someone was caught in a lie and hasn't the balls to admit it and apologize when challenged but rather ramps up their own justification for their lie with sillyass personal attacks. I find that far more a transgression than being tasteless and callow... which, once again, I NEVER had an arguement with.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 06:11 PM

I tried to find some recent coverage on this. First thing I came across was the Sun, with an article which was entirely blame-the-victim - "druggie teenage slag was asking for it", in effect. If you thought they learned anything after being caught out phone hacking, think again. They were slime then, they are slime now, they always will be slime.

And if some anonymous Canadian thinks his/her precious ego matters more than a young woman being murdered, to the point of being the primary object of discussion - fuck off, gnu.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: gnu
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 08:21 PM

More of the same.

Personal attack... for no reason other than to attempt unjustly justify a false transgression. Fact of the matter is, it is such very posts that do exactly what I have just been falsely accused of doing. Very sad.

Anon Canuck? Everyone knows my name and address.

My words are in print. You can twist them all you want, but you can only do that with a twisted mind.

Have fun with it. Light the torches. Shove em ya bunch a witch hunters.

Seriously, do you really think anyone who read this WHOLE thread actually thinks that my arguements are nothing more than defending myself against unfounded accusations? I think those who did read th wholw thread think little of those who twisted my words and put words in my mouth that I did not speak.

gnightgnu trolls.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 09:38 PM

Gnu may I refer you to my explanation from the first few messages.

"The English folk people have got being po-faced and exhibiting no sense of humour down to a fine art."

You're a good guy Gnu, don't let this nonsense perturb you. anyone who looks at the thread about Severn's recent illness can see that you're one of the good guys - full of humanity, decency, etc.

If some member of folk royalty writes a murder ballad about this incident next week - they'll all be brown-nosing like the world supply of crap is on the edge of extinction.

Of course you and me won't be hailed as visionaries. Its called a class system - we aren't of sufficiently high status to be accorded the right to think original thoughts. you have to think the same way as everyone else (in the tradtion) express yourself the same way everyone else does (the tradition strikes again) and most of all - know your place!

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 11:51 PM

Ever heard of 'splitting hairs' gnu? It means using false logic to legitimise/validate some spurious argument. You've been splitting hairs all over this thread.

And if "Shove your sausage up your ass" isn't a personal attack, I don't know what is. It also indicates your inability to carry on a rational and civilised discussion.

Now, since you've brought our conversation down to personal insults, here's one for you (or perhaps, in that strange gnu-speak language you employ, I should say "youse", whatever the fuck "youse" means)....FOXTROT ROMEO OSCAR.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 11:51 PM

gnu ~ I don't know your name & address. So may I have them please? By PM or on here.

No special reason, but you say everyone knows them so I feel a bit left out.

Anyhow one of the troubles with the nickname system also is that, even after my 2½ yrs on the Cat, there are still lots of members who get knowingly ref'd on threads, leaving me mystified & at a disadvantage; e.g. Suibhne [I do know who he] mentioned yesterday that he likes my singing & also Shimrod's; & as I don't know who the hell Shimrod is I have no way of listening to him sing, tho I should obvsly like to after such a recommendatn.

So gnu ~~ who you?

Best

~Michael Grosvenor Myer~

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 11:55 PM

... & who Shimrod, for that matter?

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 12:41 AM

.....& who any of us who use a handle instead of our real name, for that matter? But strangely, there are people I know from here, but whom I don't know from Adam in the Real World, yet I feel they are my friends. And the converse is true also - How does that work?

"Anon Canuck? Everyone knows my name and address."

I don't know who you are either, Gnu, I haven't a clue, but I'd like to. I'd love to find out if you really are the twerp you give the impression of being on here. I have a strong suspicion it's all a big act and you're not as stoopid and boorish as you want us all to think you are! :-) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 01:00 AM

you're not as stoopid and boorish as you want us all to think you are! :-) :-) Backwoodsman

Well, I do know Gary and "stoopid and boorish" is very far from what he is. It should behoove anyone who uses such terms to describe anyone should first familiarise themselves with the person.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 01:06 AM

But that is the point, Ebbie. How are we to do that if, for all his saying, we haven't the remotest idea who he is?

So come out, Gary [as I gather from Ebbie's post you are called], & ID yourself, so that we may 'famiiliarise ourselves' with you as Ebbie is privileged to be able to do.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 01:17 AM

Al & Mike, thanks for the definition of "McGuffin." It's amazing, the things you learn at Mudcat. I like Hitchcock but have seen only his major films. Looks like I'll have to look into him more deeply.

But Hitchcock seems very appropriate in this case. There is a touch of graveyard humor to the story, and Hitchcock often was very humorous in his stories. And yes, it's a darn good mystery.

I suppose many thought Hitchcock irreverent, but I've loved every Hitchcock movie I've seen. This story would make a perfect Hitchcock movie plot.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 02:44 AM

Ebbie, I couldn't agree more with what you say but, sadly, Gnu's posts give the impression of someone stoopid and boorish, who pursues a apecious argument using highly-suspect logic, and indulges themselves in ranting, aggressive posts.

And impressions are all we have to judge anyone by on here.

I'm sorry if I misjudged Gnu, but I don't have the benefit of knowing him personally the way you do, and his posts, and the impressions they create, are his responsibility, not mine.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 02:45 AM

apecious??????? WTF?? specious!

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 02:58 AM

I often wish I had not been so open with my ID.
Some nasty people read our stuff sometimes.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 03:09 AM

Specifically, I have had a fake Facebook account, had my adress and phone number posted here, information about my daughter and filthy lies about my step-daughter.
Only supply your info. by pm.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 03:34 AM

Oh, and BTW Ebbie, if you want to quote me, no problem - knock yourself out - but please use the quote in full and in context.

What I said was:-
"I don't know who you are either, Gnu, I haven't a clue, but I'd like to. I'd love to find out if you really are the twerp you give the impression of being on here. I have a strong suspicion it's all a big act and you're not as stoopid and boorish as you want us all to think you are! :-) :-)"

Now I believe that the whole quote indicates that I was trying to be conciliatory and lighthearted, and I believe that anyone who isn't personally acquainted with Gnu and/or taking his side in the argument can see that too, whereas your isolation of the 'stoopid and boorish' bit was nothing more than an attempt to 'stand up for' Gnu and somehow make me the villain. I thought better of you.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 05:11 AM

I'm sure no one calls you a villain Strolling John. Or perhaps you should work on the villain thing, and becaome a legend - like Jesse James.

Strolling Johnny was villain
A folksinging man, who lived near Lincoln town.
They quaked in fear - near and far
When he strapped on his guitar
And put on his trousers of brown.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 06:07 AM

100