BS: corpse found on the queen's estate

Subject: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: ollaimh
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 07:34 PM

they found a corpse of a seventeen year old woman on the queen's estate at sandringham. are the royal family shooting peasants again?

i thought they promised to stop that with the magna carta

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 07:38 PM

Wow.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 07:49 PM

I think edward did it. He looks shifty.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Noreen
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 07:51 PM

BBC: Sandringham Estate body named as Alisa Dmitrijeva

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 07:51 PM

Liz did it!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 08:02 PM

It is possibly a difference between UK and US sensitivities- I wouldn't like to think it is a premeditated slur. In the US when someone is found dead - through unknown means and at unknown hands - we tend to call it a 'body' rather than a 'corpse.'

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 08:05 PM

No matter, Eb... Lizzie did it...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: gnu
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 08:38 PM

Either way, Ebbie, Lizbet is a suspect. "Pheasants, peasants? They were on my grounds and therefore my property. What's for supper, Albert?"

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: kendall
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 08:49 PM

I really don't approve of such disrespect for the Queen.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 08:57 PM

Jacqui make you say that, Capt'n???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 09:28 PM

Well--it IS kind of tacky, isn't it?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 09:34 PM

Are teenagers in season now?

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: kendall
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 10:29 PM

I have great respect for the Brits, so let's not act like colonials, ok?

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 10:29 PM

Hmmmm.
Ebbie, I've never thought of the term "corpse" as indicating wrongdoing. I thought the word was interchangeable with "dead body."

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 10:57 PM

In the US when someone is found dead - through unknown means and at unknown hands - we tend to call it a 'body' rather than a 'corpse.' Eb

Is this sentence what you are interpreting as "indicating wrongdoing", Joe? I guess it isn't clear that I was not speaking of wrongdoing, only that corpse, to me, is a much more disconnected, objective reactive word than is body.

"I lurched blindly through the black, moonless night, the heavy snow obscuring every landmark, every street sign, every curbside rise. The fresh snow piled steadily, silently, inexorably onto the usual wintertime accumulations so common in Alaska. I wasn't thinking. I was not capable of thinking. Somewhere the phrase repeated: he is gone. he is gone. he is gone...

And then I stumbled and nearly fell. For a moment the thought flashed through my mind that I had tripped over a log. It was not a log. It was his corpse."

And then I stumbled and nearly fell. For a moment the thought flashed through my mind that I had tripped over a log. It was not a log. It was his body."

capiche?

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Bert
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 11:38 PM

Where is Ted Kennedy when you need him??

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 11:50 PM

Kendall, thankyou for that respect. I do appreciate it.

But what you must understand is that, once we're sure we're not involved - we Brits do enjoy a good murder,

i could refer you to George Orwell's wonderful essay about the classic English murder, but hey!

What more do you want - the Queen, her family as suspects - choose your favourite Inspector - Morse, Frost, Lynley - as far as I know no one has written anything about the current royal family. We're still getting round to being outraged about the suggestion that Queen Victoria was jack the Ripper.

Great sensual pleasure - enjoy!

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 12:53 AM

Well, Ebbie, with "body," you don't know if it's dead or not. "Corpse" is a body that's dead. That's the difference.
'Course, mebbe they talk different up there where they can see Russia from their front porch....
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 01:53 AM

Not my front porch, Joe- only from my back porch. I almost turned down this house for that.

Maybe I think of corpse more as being on the autopsy table.

You may be right, though- in my little vignette I don't say whether "he" is dead.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Gurney
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 02:35 AM

I've always thought of a corpse only as a defunct human. 'Body' has several meanings, animal, vegetable, and mineral. Including corps, a body of soldiers.

Maybe not vegetable.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 02:42 AM

This is about the death of a girl of 17, murdered far from her homeland.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 03:28 AM

Indeed, Keith. Apart from the disrespect to HM Queen, which I agree with the above description of as 'tacky', and would add 'facile' ~~ what about the disrespect to the unfortunate victim? I cannot but deplore a certain tasteless & mannerless insensitivity in some of the posts above

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 04:41 AM

'tasteless & mannerless insensitivity'

and you've never even seen my act!

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: peregrina
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 05:05 AM

A few years ago a young woman disappeared without a trace in the city where I live; she is now presumed dead. The case was constantly in the local news and every cab driver seemed to know someone who knew the individual, or to have a theory about what happened.
Now the story is covered again whenever there is a new lead. Although I did not know the individual, it gives a different perspective when such things happen nearby or areas one knows are combed for evidence. Every 'corpse' was the body of someone who was loved by family and friends; the tabloid press's gruesome paper-peddling mystery is a tragedy and endless grief to those who knew the victim.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 05:22 AM

Just read this thread. Bit tatseless as it concerns a 17 year old girl, who has been missing for some time and the unbearable strain on her family.
My duaghter is 16 and a half and things like this, make us unfortunatley worried for our own kids.

Latest news.
Sandringham Estate body named as Alisa Dmitrijeva Alisa was last seen in Norfolk in August
Detectives investigating the murder of a young woman found on the Queen's Sandringham Estate have named the victim as 17-year-old Alisa Dmitrijeva.

Her body was found by a dog walker in woodland at Anmer, near King's Lynn, on New Year's Day.

Latvian-born Miss Dmitrijeva was identified by comparing detail from her palm with records held.

Miss Dmitrijeva, from Wisbech in Cambridgeshire, was last seen in Friars Street, King's Lynn, on 31 August.

In a press statement, Miss Dmitrijeva's family said they were "devastated" by news of her death.

Forensics experts had struggled to identify the body.

Attempts to get a useable DNA profile for Miss Dmitrijeva from tooth and muscle samples were inconclusive.

The teenager was finally identified by comparing details from her palm with records held, which were further verified by DNA from her thigh bone.

A £5,000 reward was offered for information about Miss Dmitrijeva's whereabouts in December, just over three months after she went missing.

A Facebook advert, translated into Lithuanian and Latvian, was also used to try to trace the missing teenager.

Miss Dmitrijeva's remains were found on the Queen's Sandringham estate by a dog walker
Det Ch Insp Jes Fry, head of the Joint Norfolk and Suffolk major investigation team, said detectives would be working with officers from Cambridgeshire who had been trying to find Miss Dmitrijeva as a missing person.

The site where Miss Dmitrijeva's body was found is used regularly for pheasant and partridge shoots, often attended by members of the royal household.

Police have spoken to the Sandringham gamekeeper, estate manager and beaters for potential leads.

Officers want to speak to anyone who may have been in the area between the end of August and the end of September.

"I should add we are still trying to establish any activity which took place on or around the site during the time frame of the end of August to the end of September 2011," Mr Fry said.

"We would like to identify people who may have worked in that area or were involved in organising or running any specific events that may have taken place."

Police said it was "highly unlikely" Miss Dmitrijeva had died through natural causes.

There was no evidence of accidental injury, damage due to firearms or a bladed weapon, they said.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 06:54 AM

"It is possibly a difference between UK and US sensitivities- I wouldn't like to think it is a premeditated slur. In the US when someone is found dead - through unknown means and at unknown hands - we tend to call it a 'body' rather than a 'corpse.' "

On a point of order, Ebbie, I think that Olive is irish (or of Irish descent) and possibly resident in Canada, and therefore probably not subject to 'UK sensitivities'.

And, like you, we in the UK tend to refer to a 'body', rather than a 'corpse', in circumstances such as these.

And finally yes, some of the comments above are insensitive and tasteless to say the least. I don't care what others think of, or say about, Her Majesty, and I very much doubt if she cares either, but the death of anyone, let alone a young and vulnerable girl, in what appear to be tragic circumstances is not, IMHO, a cause for frivolity or jollification.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 07:49 AM

"And, like you, we in the UK tend to refer to a 'body', rather than a 'corpse', in circumstances such as these"

We also use the term 'human remains', esp. where the person appears to have been dead for some time.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 08:36 AM

"But what you must understand is that, once we're sure we're not involved - we Brits do enjoy a good murder,"
not if your name is Ian Bailey, his life has been ruined.the irish DPP, DECIDED THERE WAS INSUFFICENT EVIENCE TO PROSECUTE .we have a sytem called innocent until proved guilty, the french have a system guilty until proved innocent
    Bailey is wanted in France in connection with the death of French filmmaker Sophie Toscan du Plantier in Cork 14 years ago.

His lawyers had argued that the High Court decision to extradite him raised questions of exceptional public importance and set a precedent which could affect every Irish citizen.

A formal order for the detention and surrender of Mr Bailey was made at the High Court this morning. However the order has been put on hold pending the outcome of the Supreme Court appeal, which must be lodged by Friday next.

Mr Justice Michael Peart agreed that one of three questions raised during Mr Bailey's appeal application was of exceptional public importance.

The judge said the question related to France seeking to exercise extra territorial jurisdiction where the offence has been committed here and in circumstances where the Director of Public Prosecutions had decided not to prosecute.

At a previous hearing, Mr Bailey's lawyers said the decision to extradite him was unprecedented and should be considered by the Supreme Court.

They said the multi-judge Supreme Court should be given an opportunity to consider it as the law in the area was not settled.

Mr Bailey's application for an appeal was based on the interpretation of parts of the European Arrest Warrant Act 2003 and the Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) Act of 2005.

Senior Counsel Martin Giblin said every Irish citizen was affected by the decision.

Mr Giblin said Irish people may now be viewing Europe in a very different light and could be unaware of the provisions of European Arrest Warrant Act.

On the current interpretation by the High Court, he said any Irish citizen involved in a traffic accident with a French tourist could be 'shipped off' to France for prosecution if the DPP here decides not to prosecute.

'Every citizen is in the firing line,' he said.

He said the Irish State's obligation to surrender citizens under European agreements had to compete with the rights of a person and in many cases the rights of the person could superseded the international obligation.

Counsel for the State Robert Barron said the application by Mr Bailey did not raise points of exceptional public importance but applied only to the facts of this case.

He said the same set of circumstances were unlikely, if ever, to arise again. He said the application was an attack on the European Arrest Warrant system and the French republic.

Outside the court, Mr Bailey's solicitor Frank Buttimer claimed the du Plantier family are misguided in their view his client had anything to do with their daughter's death.

'I'm satisfied he is innocent,' said Mr Buttimer.

'I have looked at this case from every particular point of view that I can.

'I believe, and I've said it publicly, he's been targeted, he's been selected and he continues to be selected as the person who committed the crime which he did not.

'He has had an extremely difficult life since this crime and since he's been associated with it.

'He has had to tolerate this situation for all those years.'

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: kendall
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 08:50 AM

If she had been found in an alley in Brixton it would hardly be news.

Corpse is the same as body. Corpus delecti (Body of the crime, not the dead body).

Inspector Morse

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 11:26 AM

"If she had been found in an alley in Brixton it would hardly be news."

Actually, if a 17 year old girl was found dead in an alley in Brixton it would make the news.

I agree with those posters who note that a lot of the comments on this thread are in poor taste.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 12:02 PM

'Officers want to speak to anyone who may have been in the area between the end of August and the end of September.'

Pull the lot in, I say.......A dawn raid before they've had a chance to get out of their tiaras....!

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 01:08 PM

I'm a bit surprised that this thread wasn't started until a day ago, since the discovery of the body was in US news reports several days ago.

Identification of the girl just appeared yesterday, as also reported above, at MSNBC (Associated Press report).

Unfortunately, I didn't save the earlier reports or links to them; but from my recollection they must have been quite different from what was being reported elsewhere, as the reports I saw quite carefully described the large size of the estate, the infrequency of royal visits, and emphasised that no members of the "establishment" might be in any way associated with the discovered person.

The latest announcement here does change from "on queen's estate" to "near queen's estate" for the headline, but remains the same in the text of the report. Perhaps that reflects an awareness of how the discovery was being reported in more inflamatory terms elsewhere.(?)

(AP link that appeared at MSNBC yesterday: Police identify body found near Queen's estate)

John

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 01:17 PM

it's not amusing at all, a young woman is dead, probably murdered. The Queen and her family are doubtless just as appalled as the rest of us (with the exception of the heartless and tasteless people who think it's funny on this thread) If it were a member of your family (God forbid) who had been dumped like that, would you be making cheap quips? Thought not.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 02:26 PM

I have great respect for the Brits AND The Royals, but I have a greater respect for humour. And, I am a "colonial."... unless that was a joke, k?

As for offending the sensibilities of people who think making jokes about such serious a matter as the suspected murder of a young girl, I musta missed those.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Bert
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 06:56 PM

...
Actually, if a 17 year old girl was found dead in an alley in Brixton it would make the news...

But it wouldn't make Mudcat.

Yes, some of the posts were insensitive, including mine above. But I had assumed that the whole purpose of the thread was the association with Royalty was to be commented upon.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 07:57 PM

Me too, Bert. As for Beth, I am sure she laughed at my post. She reads Mudcat regulary I am sure but, of course, only posts here under a guest name as she doesn't want to offend any of her friends by being seen consorting with commoners... especially colonial commoners.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: kendall
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 08:58 PM

Maybe I'm being overly sensitive, but I see the Queen as the focal point of the British people. She represents the people of Britain; she's not just another well born person.
I'm not as fond of some of her relatives, but hell, I'm not fond of some of MY relatives.
When you knock the Queen, you knock Britain, in my opinion.
\
The Irish have reason to disagree with me, I know.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 09:55 PM

Kendall - i like you mate. I've seen you do your stuff on Youtube.

However - let me warn you. The English folk people have got being po-faced and exhibiting no sense of humour down to a fine art.

They try and use this to discomfort everyone. Its a sort of intelligence slowed down to an acceptable rate for practicing bores. like when your teacher used to say - no running in the corridor - even when the corridor was empty.

most of us don't give a monkey's bum about the Queen, or her strange family. You Americans show us an inordinate ammount of respect. I remember when Sheila Ferguson of the Three Degrees was invited for supper with Prince Charles. She said afterwards that he insisted on being called Sir throughout the evening. And bloody hell! She complied!

In short, the Royals are an absurdity. The real comparison should be - what if a 17 year old girl was found murdered in my back garden. I'd be seing mailbags by now.

All these daft bumholes are showing the royal family quite unwarranted reverence. Its a bit like the body in the library.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 01:51 AM

Its a bit like the body in the library.

Not at all alike. In that case the butler did it.

...unless she was having something on with the gardener

... ... or these times, he was having something on with the driver.

... ... ... or ...(?)

In the US, in novels (and to some extent in movies, etc) about "British crime" the "serving persons" always seem to play principal parts, probably because it makes the criminal potentials somehow "more exotic" and more unlike our ordinary domestic crime.

Almost no one in the US has "serving persons" to be involved ...

... ... here they're mostly called "body guards" I suppose.

(Jobs to fit the business one's in?)

John

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 02:28 AM

JiK: Not many people here have 'serving persons' in that sense either. In the days when our upper & upper-middle classes did, so did your wealthy families, on the evidence of literature, films, &c, set around such a milieu; from Theodore Dreiser's An American Tragedy to Deanna Durbin in His Butler's Sister. And, literarily, they were occasionally responsible for bodies in libraries likewise.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 02:50 AM

I posted because I found it distasteful to joke about the death, not the Queen.
Big Al, many certainly agree with you, but are you sure it is most, as in "most of us don't give a monkey's bum about the Queen" ?

Consider the crowds who waited outside the Sandringham chapel from before dawn on Christmas morning, or for the wedding, or awaiting news of Philip's illness, or for Queen Mother's funeral, ....

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 03:45 AM

I would have thought that those who show that degree of devoted sycophancy are very much in the minority.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 03:57 AM

So would I, but they are indicative.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 04:11 AM

Actually, some statistics would be interesting and presumably not too difficult to establish. What proportion of the population in fact turn out to line the route for a royal procession or to catch a glimpse of royalty on some occasion? How do tv viewing figures for royal occasions compare with those for, e.g., the World Cup Final? I agree that it is unlikely that these figures would reveal a 'majority' of the population in the entirely literal sense; but would surely be most significant numbers nevertheless, not at all deserving of locutions like Al's "most of us don't give a monkey's bum"; quite a few would be shown to give a monkey's bum, I would estimate: full as many, I would venture, as feel strongly enough to find it necessary to express their uninterest in such discourteously hyperbolical terms.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 04:12 AM

Interesting to compare the sentiments on this thread with one currently above the line: Senseless killing of NH singer.

Lots of sympathy and compassion for one murdered person - not much, it seems, for another. One touches our souls, the other appears not to.

So - my sincerest sympathies to the relatives of Alisa Dmitrijeva in Wisbech for their sad loss.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: peregrina
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 04:24 AM

Yes, thanks for that Will Fly. Respect for every human life.

Lots of problems in the world would not exist if each person's web of respect and compassion stretched far enough to allow them to imagine the circumstances of distant individuals, of other species, even of the planet, more vividly and with some empathy.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 04:36 AM

"When you knock the Queen, you knock Britain, in my opinion."

Not everyone feels like that though. I don't think most British people would take real offence if foreigners criticsed the Queen or the monarchy in general. Real avid monarchists or real avid republicans are probably in the minority. Most people seem to not care too much either way but are happy to take things as they are because it has always been so and seems to work to some extent despite it being archaic etc. Yes there is a soap opera style interest by many, especially females, in what clothes are being worn etc - but it is hardly serious stuff. I don't think many people would get too bothered about the PM being criticised either. Saying that maybe that is because I'm in Scotland where royal street parties etc are basically a thing of the past. I was down south when Diana died and found the atmosphere weird to say the least but I kind of felt that had more to do with the cult of celebrity than the royal institution itself.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 04:55 AM

Well, Will and peregrina, I think there's a difference. There's a connection with the New Hampshire singer, especially for those of us who are singers and those who have visited New Hampshire or know Allison (Animaterra), who apparently knew the singer and reported the death.

Most of us have no connection with the body found on the Queen's estate. It's just a news item. Millions of people die every day, and most of us aren't able to conjure up enough sincere sympathy to be concerned about every one. Human nature guides us to be sympathetic to those we know, those we feel a connection to. Most of us just can't be sincerely sympathetic toward every dead body that turns up, anywhere in the world. And I gotta say, I question the sincerity of those who ooze with sympathy for total strangers. When I'm dead, I don't care to have any strangers grieving for me. Let them go on with their lives and grieve for the loss of the people they really love.

Sorry, but that's the way it is. I intend no disrespect; but to me, Alisa Dmitrijeva is just a news item and a name I can't pronounce. I hope that she has family and friends who will grieve her loss - that's the grieving that makes a difference.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 05:28 AM

of course it very sad - a seventeen year old child dying - in such sordid circumstances as well.

The point is though, here is a new one for the for the royal family. This will have the conspiracy theorists in a tizz for ever. Like Jack the Ripper and the death of Princess Di.

On the pheasant shoot as well - even Inspector Lynley might be too downmarket for this one.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 05:38 AM

The Irish have reason to disagree with me, I know.

Not been keeping up with things have you?


Watch this then..