BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Apr 12 - 08:43 PM

He MUST be a Great Artist, as there is more discussion of his art now that he's dead than there ever was here during his lifetime.

("PROVE you're a real artist!" "Okay, here's a stack of overdue bills and an eviction notice.")

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Apr 12 - 08:54 PM

Well, Rap, there's is some truth to what you say...

The late Robert Rauschenberg attended an art auction where one of his paintings, owned by someone else, brought some seriously big bucks...

After the auction Rauschenberg went up to the buyer and said, "Geeze, next time you want a Raushenberg, call me" and handed the buyer a slip of paper with his phone number on it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: ranger1
Date: 10 Apr 12 - 10:10 PM

Kendall, Longfellow is buried in Evergreen Cemetary, not in Westminster Abbey.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: ranger1
Date: 10 Apr 12 - 10:18 PM

Oops! We're both wrong - he's buried in Massachusetts. But he does have a bust in Westminster Abbey.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Apr 12 - 11:00 PM

There are two scans of a pen and ink which Bobert kindly gifted to me a few years ago HERE. Something I will always treasure!

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 11 Apr 12 - 07:22 AM

We also have an original Bobert. Beautiful piece of work.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: EBarnacle
Date: 11 Apr 12 - 08:34 AM

There is now a boomlet in his art. At least the people buying his originals don't have 1 of 15,000...


PLACERVILLE (AP).- In Thomas Kinkade's hometown, at the gallery where his art career first took off, an original painting by the self-described "Painter of Light" sat unsold for years. Buyers were perhaps deterred by the $110,000 asking price.

The painting, "Sunday Outing," was being sold on consignment, and when word came Friday night that Kinkade had died, its owner called and asked for the selling price to be raised to $150,000, gallerist Nathan Ross said Monday. The painting sold hours later.

It wasn't the only one. Barraged with orders from customers in person, on the phone and online, Ross has called in as much extra help as he can find. He said on a typical day he'll sell one to five Kinkade pieces through the gallery's website.

In the last 48 hours, he says he's received about 300 online orders.

"Phones are just ringing nonstop. We have five lines and they're constantly lit up. People are waiting in line to buy paintings," Ross said. "It's just been a real juggling match to make sure everyone gets taken care of."

Other galleries across the country that specialize in Kinkade's work are reporting a similar surge in sales following the popular painter's death at age 54.

John Vassallo, who owns five Kinkade galleries in New York and New Jersey, says sales on Saturday reached half his typical sales for the entire month of December, the busiest month of the year. Like most Kinkade retailers, Vassallo traffics not in originals but limited edition reproductions, many of which come hand-signed by the artist himself.

Any piece with Kinkade's original signature is in high demand at a cost of $8,000 to $15,000, said Vassallo, who counted Kinkade as a personal friend.

"It's been a tragic cost unfortunately," Vassallo said of Kinkade's death, "but I know that Thom is looking down and bringing the people."

Vassallo also said he believed Kinkade likely left behind unreleased work that would help feed public demand even after the painter's death. The Morgan Hill company that produces and distributes Kinkade's art hinted in a weekend message to gallery owners and employees that such work did indeed exist.

"He leaves behind a rich legacy of published and unpublished work and has inspired generations of artists to follow in his brushstrokes," Thomas Kinkade Co. CEO John Hasting wrote in the statement. Hasting said later that the company was heartened by the outpouring of appreciation of Kinkade's work. The company hasn't offered any specifics on how much sales have increased.

. . .

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Apr 12 - 09:09 AM

Thank you so much, Kat, for posting that print...

I did a one-man-show at The Gallery in Richmond entitled "Pieces of Richmond" and had 200 of that pen-and-ink printed and made them available to the folks who attended the show... After the show I ended up with about 50 and have given them to friends over the years... Last I looked I have 2 left... But I still have the original...

BTW, that drawing is one of about 30 that were in the show along with about a dozen paintings...

Thanks again...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 11 Apr 12 - 09:25 AM

>"I know that Thom is looking down and bringing the people."

And now, a departed spirit at God's right hand promotes his own earthly products from Heaven.

That's the mindset of these guys.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 11 Apr 12 - 11:15 AM

"I know that Thom is looking down and bringing the people."

You would like to think Thom has better things to do now than to keep making $$ for his empire.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 11 Apr 12 - 11:52 AM

Nice work, Bobert, and thanks to Kat for the post.

As for Kinkade, well, he didn't force anyone to buy his work even if some of his marketing methods were, er, dubious. I don't particularly like his work but that's only my opinion even if, like the Bobster, I am qualified to give it. Live and let live.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Apr 12 - 12:06 PM

Thank you, Bobert, esp. for the "provenance" of the piece. It is very special to me.

luvyakat

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 11 Apr 12 - 04:53 PM

Well, Bobert's art certainly has more heart and character than anything you'll ever see in a Kinkade picture. Similar to Aubrey Beardsley but not copying him.

As for people spending $150,000 on a Kinkade piece of junk, it's just like the idiot who spent $50,000 on a complete set of Beanie Babies back in the 90s. When you're speculating on stuff like this that does not have any true artistic merit but only populist appeal, you have to understand that the bottom could drop out at any moment. It's no different than a housing bubble except it's an art bubble, it will rise fast and if you're right there to cash in on it, you can make some money but if you wait too long, it will burst. Who cares about Beanie Babies anymore?

Sooner or later--sooner than later--the Kinkade demand will top out. fF you've got Kinkades--sell them now. Don't get greedy and wait. No reputable art dealer will have anything to do with a Kinkade and once that reality sinks in, show's over.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Apr 12 - 05:18 PM

Thanks pete and joez...

Actually, if you go to one of these "starving artist" sales that are held in lobbies of motels you'll find a lot of paintings which look very much like Kincade's...

Back in art school we referred to these as either factory are or formula art... I mean, this doesn't mean the guy can't paint because he surely can... But he hasn't put much thought into his paintings and most are variation of Venician landscapes or cottages... BTW, Venician landscapes don't have to be "landscapes"... It's a composition that follows a Z (Zorro) formula with the background being purposely hazy which is called atmospheric perspective...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 11 Apr 12 - 05:54 PM

It wasn't anything you didn't see Bob Ross do in half an hour except Ross's stuff was better and never did Ross ever try to suggest any of these paintings were worth a crap. They were just to help art students get some extra looks at how to make a basic painting. My mother was a painter and says Kinkade's stuff is what a year's worth of art lessons allows you to do. But visual art--like good poetry and prose--needs to be saying something. No poet expects people to swoon over:

Got up this morning
Scratched my rump
Before my shower
I took a dump

There should be something the author wants to say that may inspire us. Kinkade doesn't do that and he made no attempt to do that. It was fast buck art for people who find Ernst and Picasso too challenging.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 11 Apr 12 - 06:01 PM

Ok, THIS is a Kinkade I would buy!

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 12 Apr 12 - 05:42 AM

Nah! THIS is the Kinkade to buy! LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Apr 12 - 07:36 AM

Nice geetar... I play a parlor style so I love 'um...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Apr 12 - 08:36 AM

Isn't Indian Rosewood what got Gibson into trouble?

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 12 Apr 12 - 09:06 AM

Hey Bobs, you mentioned that Kinkade's art is referred to as "factory are or formula art". Over here we'd call it "chocolate box" (or worse, "wallpaper"!). Ever heard of that?

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Apr 12 - 09:23 AM

Nope, Pete... Must be a UK'r thing...

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 Apr 12 - 10:39 AM

Pete, we don't say "chocolcate box" because our chocolates come in plain boxes. Russell Stover's, for example, come in a white box with a red ribbon printed on it. Whitman's come in a yellow box with cross-stitch embroidery motifs.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 12 Apr 12 - 11:30 AM

Okay, we learn something everyday. Actually thinking about it, "wallpaper" seems to be slowly taking over from "chocolate box" for mundane art for much the same reason - a move away from the Kinkade-type twee cottages, woodland scenes, etc., on the box lids to more contemporary images and brand-designs like those Leeneia describes.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Apr 12 - 05:45 PM

Oh. I see. Bobert does representational art.

I still want one, though. I suppose I could possibly put up with something like that, maybe in the bathroom or the back closet, even if it doesn't really get to the essence of the subject and is merely a two-dimensional attempt to engage the viewer with the subject and after all, isn't all art simply attempts to portray that which Plato said were only shadows on the wall?

I'd better stop before I make myself barf.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 13 Apr 12 - 06:31 AM

Plato's main take on art was that it could only ever produce copies of the real thing (nature), "simulacra". (Barf!)

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: EBarnacle
Date: 13 Apr 12 - 08:41 AM

Once, when we were discussing pricing, several years ago, Willard Bond and I concluded that pricing was largely a function of size, not quality, within a given artists offerings--"like wallpaper."

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Apr 12 - 09:22 AM

Okay, I'll pay up to USD 20.00 for a verified Rembrandt miniature.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 13 Apr 12 - 09:41 AM

>Plato's main take on art was that it could only ever produce copies of the real thing (nature), "simulacra".

That's because, in Plato's day, the artists he knew of hadn't thought to do anything else. Realistic representational art is tough enough! (I forget how he dealt with music.)

The real thing was the real thing. Like Pan and Medusa. What else was there?

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Apr 12 - 10:36 AM

@Pete Jennings, I think the comparison to your "chocolate boxes" or "wallpaper" was the remark way up there about "greeting card" art. Not taken as seriously, it is generally considered ephemeral.

I love the term "simulacra." But that elevates this discussion way above Kinkade's oeuvre. :)

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Apr 12 - 11:45 AM

Either the term 'art' is more exclusive than I think or what I enjoy is not art.

I don't have a Kinkade and I don't spend time scrutinizing his depictions on the many calendars, ads and blurbs of all kinds. However, that said, I do have three framed photos on my wall that I have no doubt belong in Kinkade's class.
One is of a house tucked into woodland with a mossy path leading around the curve; it is Autumn and the colors are rich. Another photo/painting is of a cottage perched above a rocky stream while the last is a different view of the same scene, taking one's eye from the stream up slabs of stone to the cottage above.
They are not "art", I'm sure, but for me, they'll do until the real thing comes along.

It is kind of like saying/believing that the sound one gets from a guitar, fiddle or banjo is not actually music at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 13 Apr 12 - 11:48 AM

That's right SRS, once the chocs are gone the box goes in the bin! (Sorry, the recycling bag). And "ephemeral"'s a lovely word.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Apr 12 - 11:53 AM

Ebbie, I think the issue people have with Kinkade is less the actual "popular" nature of the content than his promotional methods, his production methods, and the marketing of franchises that took advantage of both investors and customers.

If you want to look at the imagery and find a comparison, I suppose a fair amount of Robert Frost's poetry treads the same ground that Kinkade's pictures do. It isn't the subject matter, it is the methods and the promotion.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 13 Apr 12 - 12:18 PM

Right again, SRS. There is no exclusivity to art IMO. If you think it's art, then it is. And as Tracy Emin says (I'm gonna get it in the neck for mentioning our Trace!): "It's art because I say it is."

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 13 Apr 12 - 12:56 PM

Actually the sounds produced by a guitar, fiddle, or banjo aren't music either unless the person playing knows how to play.

My problem with Kinkade is with his limited range and abilities combined with the successful zillion-dollar promotion of them on non-artistic grounds.

If he'd become popular solely through word of mouth and had been known for comments like, "I'm glad people like my paintings. I just do the best I can," I'd be more sympathetic.

But that wasn't what was happening.

Kinkade's paintings really do count as art. They're just bad (that means uninteresting) art. Like what you hear when the average twelve-year-old plays the violin and gets almost all the notes right. If you like the performance, it isn't because of the music.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Apr 12 - 02:09 PM

"Actually the sounds produced by a guitar, fiddle, or banjo aren't music either unless the person playing knows how to play."

That is probably not literally true, Guest/Lighter. Within a single note lies a harmony that may not be audible or physically present but in my opinion we react and respond to it as though we hear it.

Take a pure soprano voice singing a solo air slowly and with emotion. Even though soprano is not my favorite pitch I don't for a moment doubt that our ears/spirits/emotions are filling it in.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 13 Apr 12 - 02:41 PM

If it's just a single note that gives the effect, I'd just call it a "pure note."

If a pure note is a thing of beauty, then the point of music is to make sure the beauty remains when the note is placed with other notes.

The more notes, the more practice it takes.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: kendall
Date: 13 Apr 12 - 07:27 PM

Opinions are like assholes; we all have one.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Apr 12 - 08:28 PM

I've named mine "Timmy" for no particular reason. What's yours called?

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Apr 12 - 08:32 PM

Your opinion or your asshole, Rap???

B:~)

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: Elmore
Date: 14 Apr 12 - 11:16 AM

One thing Kinkade did as well (or as badly) as many great artists was drink.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: GUEST
Date: 28 May 12 - 11:19 AM

////It is kind of like saying/believing that the sound one gets from a guitar, fiddle or banjo is not actually music at all./////

Meaningless statement. I could kick a guitar and it makes a sound but it isn't music. It's music if it's being played by a musician. Kinkade was like a lounge pianist who knew a slew of old standards but they were all of the same genre and all in the same key. It gets old after the third song. and when you meet someone who has faithfully bought every CD and works as a rep selling more copies of his CDs to other people, would you not find that ridiculous and disingenuous?

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 28 May 12 - 11:22 AM

Come to think of it--Kinkade was to art what Kenny G is to jazz.

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 May 12 - 11:42 AM

Point taken!

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 May 12 - 01:23 PM

Sentimental claptrap, in my opinion. If you like it, know that you are endangering your health. Your teeth may fall out and you may well go blind.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: CupOfTea
Date: 29 May 12 - 02:49 PM

Yanno, that "what is art?" question is about as dicey a proposition as asking "what is folk music?" I'm in the category of overeducated artists (BS art ed, MFA textiles) who find Kinkade's paintings crap in pretty colors. Having the education background, and a curiosity about why one thing sells and another doesn't made me curious. I also married a man whose father is a well regarded regional painter with the same sort of marketing niche and bent as Kinkade (though his numbered prints actually WERE limited editions).

The thing I really despised about my father in law's work was he WAS a genuinely good fine arts artist, both painting and photography. He did a whole book of amazing watercolors of scenes from when he was stationed in the Pacific in WW, published by the military. Most of his career as an artist WAS as a greeting card painter. He excelled at that catering to emotion and factory production headspace. In later life, he started to travel. A wonderful photographer, he'd take lots of pictures, sketch views on his trip, then use the photos to do finished watercolors on his in-situ drawings. They were WONDERFUL. So wonderful, they all sold in a show. Money rolled in and next thing, they became part and parcel of the "I can do this to make money" attitude. The paintings from the subsequent trips had no fraction of the soul of that first batch. Artist's intent is critical to what the work becomes.

In talking this over with my generation of in-laws, I was steered to a (fairly obscure, highly academic) study of economics and artists. In examining the economic issues, all the variables came down to two paths for a successful artist to take - Fine Art or Commercial Art. The methods of working are different for the two paths - and the qualities and INTENT of the artwork are different. My father in law and Kinakde took the Commercial path to monetary success. In doing so, they took themselves out of the running for Fine Art. What the art can BE is different for the two paths.

The thing that rankles many who have taken the time to be educated about art is not sour grapes because folks like Kinkade make piles of money, or that his work doesn't speak to us on any deep level, but the thinking that popularity=quality. McDonald's sells millions of hamburgers, but that doesn't make them a great example of good food. Kinkaid, as well as some folks working in the Fine Arts realm, have me snorting and eye-rolling at how they are MUCH better at PR & self promotion than at actually creating art (some musicians are like this too, now that I think on it).

To me, Kinkaid's popularity is evidence of the the lack of art education in schools coming home to roost. Never developing any critical criterion in assessing visual works means that many people will NOT be able to distinguish between Fine & Commercial Art. Kinkaid was a very successful COMMERCIAL artist. Just don't expect Fine Artists to accept him as a peer - it's apples and oranges, really.

Joanne in Cleveland

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: Bobert
Date: 29 May 12 - 04:45 PM

Joanne's post reminded me of a story I heard when I was in art school by one of my teachers...

The story is about Robert Raushenburg at an auction where one of his previously sold paintings brought a large sum and Robert, quite upset, went up to buyer afterwards and said, "If you are going to spend that kind of money for one of my paintings then buy one directly from me"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 May 12 - 08:01 PM

Joanne-

Well said.

Starving doesn't necessarily make one a better artist. But great artists generally have ignored the commercial art path. My grandfather once considered going back to commercial lithography when things looked dire but my grandmother convinced him that they could somehow make do with the little money they were earning and continue to focus on their creative art. Their artwork now sells for ten or twenty times what Kinkade would have been paid for anything he painted.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
From: EBarnacle
Date: 30 May 12 - 01:18 AM

I cannot vote for the worth of Kinkade's "art" but he certainly made it on volume.