Birds on Wires

Subject: RE: Birds on Wires
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 23 Oct 00 - 06:26 PM

When I was in college in the late 60's, there were two writers that always seemed to get lumped together by the "inner-lectuals" dudes in black turtleknecks looking to get lucky at them there intellectual soirees - Leonard Cohen and Rod McKuen. Most people, comparing the present critical view of both their work might think that it's just another case of time separating the wheat from the chaff. . .but I'm not so sure.

I recently found "Listen to the Warm" and "Stanyon Street and Other Sorrows", by Mr. McKuen, at a used book sale and had to buy both (they were too cheap to let lie there). I keep them on the same shelves as my most treasured books. Maybe I do it out of respect for anyone who writes and succeeds at it. Maybe I do it just to confuse people. I look at them, from time to time, and can't really make up my mind.

Oh yeah - the Goldberg book is really good at breaking through that wall of indifference or whatever it is that keeps you from writing from time to time.

Thanks for the thread.

Subject: RE: Birds on Wires
From: flattop
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 12:21 AM

No reverence for my fantasies, leenia? How tall are you? Do you want to wear heels?

What I need is someone to kick my ass and tell me to write. I thought that we could form a mutual ass-kicking group here. Instead we end up chatting.

Are you in for three pages Bartholomew? Who else wants to commit? You don't have to show what you've written. Just tell us that you hit it or blew it each week.

Subject: RE: Birds on Wires
From: Metchosin
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 02:14 AM

Flattop, I didn't consider what I said as being negative, just in my case realistic. That won't stop me from writing, nor should it stop you, but I came to the conclusion a long time ago that I have my doubts that I will ever achieve anything particularly profound, eg. with the depth of Rumi or manage to grasp the wonderful ability of a Richard Thompson or Leonard Cohen, to give depth to the common place. These things, when we look at them may appear simple, but they are not.

Just because some of us will never achieve this, is no reason not to write, if only for ones own sense of accomplishment and enjoyment or because we're driven. Don't do it because you want positive feedback, writing is a journey not a destination. That doesn't mean you shouldn't allow other people to see your work.

That said, you have to explore by using imagery in order to find resonance and relevance, as what you have often looked at, is finally seen. No matter who we are or what we are we still have to master our own barre chords. Consider your ass kicked, now get writing, we expect something sterling within a fortnight. :^D)

Subject: RE: Birds on Wires
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 06:30 AM

flattop,

Who do you think has been kicking your ass all along?

I can't help it if I did it in such a way that you like it.

Write, dammit, write. Go back and review the PM I sent you in response to your song circle description, and then go back and review the Simple Heroes thread (refresh it and post something truthful there, dear friend *G*), and then tell me your ass ain't been kicked.

Oh, you mean it wasn't kicked ENOUGH. If that wasn't enough ass-kicking to get you going, then I would respectfully and lovingly inquire: "Well then, flattop, what is in the way of you moving toward your goal such that you need extreme ass-kickings?"

Don't you know that loving someone well is more of an ass-kicking than you could possibly have imagined, and that the effects may "kick in" (hahaha) more slowly but more powerfully than the usual painful approach?

Also ass-kicking is best, exchanged. Do some of it yourself if you want it back. You have to be creative about it if you want results, though. (Remember when we discovered that what I needed was to be NOT pushed? When you stopped pushing that time, it was an outstanding ass-whupping.) Go figure on that for awhile!

Your loving friend and partner in ass-kicking,

~Susan

Subject: RE: Birds on Wires
From: Matt_R
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 11:47 AM

OH! You meant 3 pages of SONGWRITING? I was just talking about my stupid CA projects. I'm not sure I have the heart to write songs anymore.

Subject: RE: Birds on Wires
From: mousethief
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 12:11 PM

Flattop, what exactly about the story about Cohen disillusioned you? Is it the fact that he disciplined himself to write a mininum amount each day? I find that if I force myself to write, even when there's nothing good coming, then eventually something good WILL come. The more I'm writing, the more good stuff I'm writing, even if the good stuff is less than 1% of my total output.

Isn't it sort of common knowledge that a professional photographer will shoot an entire roll of film and maybe have one, maybe no saleable images on it? Why should it be any different for poets or songwriters?

Or maybe I just missed something in what you're saying. Wouldn't be the first time, alas.

Keep writing, brothers and sisters!

"Music was the scenery
Jimi Hendrix played loud and free
Sergeant Pepper was real to me
Songs and poems were all you needed."
--Al Stewart

Alex
O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: Birds on Wires
From: Matt_R
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 12:17 PM

Yep, Alex, I'm a photography student...for each assignment we take AT LEAST 48 photos...and present only 4 of them (5 if you're lucky).

--Matt

Subject: RE: Birds on Wires
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 06:44 PM

I generally do write that much. Actually, I came across the three pages thing in a book called "The Artists Way" a while back and it is a really good idea. Since I've been keeping a journal more or less regularly since 1967, it should be easy, but the problem is that I'm always so succinct and to the point that three pages is unnecessary(Yeah, I know, anyone who has fought their way through my posts is groaning about now).

Subject: RE: Birds on Wires
From: flattop
Date: 25 Oct 00 - 12:02 AM

Please don't give me that crap about being realistic, Metchosin. You are bright, articulate, knowledgeable, and you have a good sense of humour. You might even have feelings. Are you in for three pages or do you just want to tell me that you don't want to do it? I know, you are already writing and you don't need this. I wasn't going to start until next Saturday myself but I'm feeling those kicks.

I had no intentions of trying to compete with Cohen. His wasn't even the kind of writing that I wanted to do. I plan things and then run away from them. I feel like the character in the Henry Miller book who has the perfect novel in his head but hasn't been able to write a word of it. I wasn't disillusioned mousethief. On the contrary, I found it refreshing that Cohen struggled too. The difference is that he got a word or two down on the page.

Are you in for three pages too Praise or do you just like booting my butt? Good to see that Bartholomew is ahead of the game.

What's a CA project Matt? I was hoping to encourage creative writing or lyrics or fiction.

Subject: RE: Birds on Wires
From: Matt_R
Date: 25 Oct 00 - 12:08 AM

CA= Communication Arts, AKA Commercial Art. Projects were: 50 complete ideas of different ways of looking at the most boring object ever, in as many different medias as possible; 2 rolls of film (48 shots in all) with 4 to be contact printed and put up for crit; and 6 typographic explorations of one letter in black & white overlapping compositional relationships. That sorta stuff.

Subject: RE: Birds on Wires
From: flattop
Date: 25 Oct 00 - 12:11 AM

So, you're having fun?