BS: What's too far?

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 09:43 AM

MT... relax... have a bran muffin... It's a joke...

And well as far as opinion goes, what the hell else does any one EVER state?!?!?! EVEYTHING stated is just opinion... Especially here...

And it ain't worth a hill of beans...

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 10:08 AM

Of course some people - I'm thinking Mousethief as an example here - will argue with almost anything you say.

Some folks may possibly be offended by anything you say, as opposed to just disagreeing/arguing. They go through life looking for things to get pissed off at. On the other end of the spectrum are people who are trying to offend others. I guess the only thing you can do is try to keep from offending as many people as possible while still getting your point accross.

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Devilmaster
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 10:42 AM

Here's a question I openly ask.

If Ashley McIssac said things like his boyfriend was 15, and openly gives airs that he is into pedophilia, (whether its an act or not) has he ever been investigated by the police?

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 11:14 AM

Jeri, I think that is a little unfair to Mousethief. He may argue, but not always and usually when he does it is because he is genuinely interested in learning more.

What happened to no personal attacks/singling out?

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: mousethief
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 11:41 AM

The difference, Wolfgang, is between saying it voluntarily and being told you must say it so people will know when you're expressing an opinion.

Jeri, I love you too.

Kat, thanks for sticking up for me, but I can take it.

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 12:11 PM

I would like to make an observation that may or may not be relevant to the topic at hand (What's too far?) and to one of the identifiable subtopics (Does the use of a qualifying statement like "In my opinion" have value?). My opinion is that we are way too self-conscious.

One of my complaints with "pop culture" is that it is so self-conscious and self-referential. An example of this would be songs about the life of a songwriter - how difficult it is, how it complicates your life, etc. Another example is a news report about a news report.

My point? We are in the midst of a discussion about discussion. We have taken one step back from expressing an opinion to expressing an opinion about expressing opinions.

I know that this seems to be a characteristic of the age in which we live. I also know that there have to be rules and that discussing the rules is not out of place. But there is a point where analysis (and a thin skin) leads to paralysis.

That is one reason why I don't particularly enjoy the "parsing" of postings and point-by-point rebuttal (except when John the Skeptic does it, he tends to lend support to my position). Lately I see too many discussions (not only here; this happens on news shows, talk shows, and in debates) get lost in minutiae and semantics.

We all make spelling and grammar errors. We all mis-speak at times. We all post while our "dander is up", from time to time, and later wish we hadn't.

We all deserve a break once in a while. In my opinion, when reading a post we should assume best intentions. Flamers tend to identify themselves clearly as such. Keep the best and let the rest float gently down the stream.

Enjoy the day. After all, "life is just a dream".
Bart

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 01:19 PM

Is it an attack to say Spaw likes to write about passing gas? Kendall likes political discussion? Jeri likes to generalize? I've just noticed Mousethief likes to argue - how is that an attack?

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 01:34 PM

Hi Bart..........You said:

That is one reason why I don't particularly enjoy the "parsing" of postings and point-by-point rebuttal (except when John the Skeptic does it, he tends to lend support to my position). Lately I see too many discussions (not only here; this happens on news shows, talk shows, and in debates) get lost in minutiae and semantics.

Yeah it is a pain in the ass ain't it? LOL.......Really, it does take so much away from an idea when everything is picked to death. It seems that every word is under scrutiny and can become fair game. I notice though that in many cases, the idea is NOT refuted by the pedantia........Kinda' like winning the battles and losing the war.

BTW, since you posted an opinion/observation about the fact we are giving opinions about opinions, and since I have now pointed out your opinion on opinions on opinions, I'd like to say that I think we can now go on to expressing an opinion regarding someone who voices an opinion about the opinions being given about opinions. Are we at Tier Four thinking yet? And if so, can I now discuss passing gas as Jeri suggests so Alex can argue about the smell?

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Devilmaster
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 01:47 PM

Who's On First?

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 01:50 PM

Spaw, seriously, I've noticed some people respond to what they want to and ignore the rest. Politicians do too - they answer the questions they'd rather have been asked. If they talk enough, no one notices they avoided the subject. (Yeah, right.)

Re your last paragraph - did I do that? I frequently do do that. Good argument going, somebody gets upset by someone else's method of argument, somebody else gets upset by that person getting upset, then a bunch of other people upset, and somebody else gets upset because everyone else is upset, and..."thread blown all to hell." (I'm usually in there at stage 4, although this time I inadveretently managed stage 2.)

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 02:04 PM

Ya know what Jeri? I think the thing that has too far is this this thread!!! Seriously, I think you're right though......I'll bet that 75% of the discussions eventually go that route around here. If I have tried to be serios and contribute, somewhere around Tier 2.5 I figure the thing has is now "Thread Blown All To Hell" and whatever anyone says is not being understood........hence I start talking about passing gas or Cletus or some other inane piece of tripe. When a thread/discussion has reached that point, many are still arguing back and forth but the whole thing is meaningless because many have sealed their ears too.

So whaddaya' think about this picture of Paw and Cletus???

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 02:20 PM

Them pickled dinosaur eggs must've been deadly Spaw!

Jeri's gonna go out on a limb and predict a major knicker-twist over the weekend. I could be wrong (and hope I am), but the mood's starting to swing that way again...or maybe that's just my mood and I'm "projecting." Gotta go buy some bran muffins...

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 05:22 PM

Major knicker twist... I like that. If I lived closer to you, Jeri, I'd buy you a beer, or a cappucino, or an herbal tea or something. Thanks for that one.

Carol

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 05:30 PM

I am sorry, Jeri, too thin-skinned today, I guess.

To the original posted question, here is a good eaxmple of what I consider having gone too far.

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 05:47 PM

It's OK Kat. I was really hoping I was wrong and imagining things. I just hope we've learned something since he's been around last.

Wonder who will be the first to "feed" him. If it's me, somebody slap me.

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: gnu
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 06:03 PM

wdyat12 said... have sex with his pet dog during during a recent Maine Legislature hearing.... they don't put that stuff on TV in The States do they ?

Local front page news today was the fact that a satellite TV supplier in Ontario removed a Yankee porn cahnnel from its service because the porn went beyond standards set in Canada. I guess I would have to agree if there are pets involved. Then again, the real affrontery is the screwing we Canadians are getting in the parliamentary debates these days.... DOES the honourable member have a stick up his ass ?!!!

gnu

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 06:44 PM

Well Jeri, I've already been jacking with him, but he's so much easier now. Even as nasty as the gutter spout can be, in some ways he is so much milder (perhaps because he is aggressively outrageous) and easier to cope with then some of the anon member/guests who get some vendetta going. Garg's always on the same crap although he seems to have learned some new html and gotten a better spellchecker.

Everybody just try and relax.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: gnu
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 06:51 PM

Spaw said... I've already been jacking with him.

What is this "jacking" ? 'Round here, it means taking wild game illegally. I assume it means something else on the net ?

curiousgnu

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 07:05 PM

Messing around with him, pulling his chain, pushing his buttons, taking the piss...that sort of thing. Musta missed it, Spaw.

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: gnu
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 07:09 PM

Good... I was worried about another Assley MakesIsick affair.

relievedgnu

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: flattop
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 08:40 AM

I hope you boys aren't picking on Ashley simply because he's a Cape Bretoner.

Years ago I drank with a friend in Toronto while he tenaciously defended his right to watch porn movies. Although he had several university degrees and read way far much, his strongest arguments centered around a movie he'd seen where a woman performed oral sex on a dog. The German Sheppard had shown no inclination to run away.

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: gnu
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 09:55 AM

You know, I'm going to stop making that silly joke because it just ain't funny anymore. And that's all it was ever meant to be - a JOKE. I like most of Ashley's music and I respect his talent. As for his personal life, all I have to say is he should have kept his mouth shut, if only because he hasn't sold me any music since he showed such poor judgement.

gnu

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Peg
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 10:16 AM

gee, Clinton, I wondered how long it would take you to start your faggot-bashing again.

You'd best face up to your own fears and latent homosexuality, man. Your bitterness and viciousness in this regard are a blinkng red light, if you know what I mean.

You are an asshole.

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: mousethief
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 11:31 AM

You all are having so much fun there's really no need for me to say anything.

Jeri is just trying to provoke me to argue so she can say, "See? I told you!" I'll be durned if I'll take THAT bait.

I'm off to find the problem in my code that produced 3 parts from the spare parts database with no PSV (Proprietary/Supplier/Vendor) code.

That and check out the other threads.

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Skeptic
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 11:51 AM

Bart,

Just read the thread. Thanks. Great minds do think alike. You are obviously a shrewd and perceptive judge of character in addition to other sterling character traits I won't embarrass you by listing.

Spaw,

I will not give you the satisfaction of parsing your comments.

Where do I fall? Have I been lumped by you with the pedantic who don't refute points (in which case you are not just wrong, you are absolutely and totally wrong and in addition are a pig headed fool) :-).

Or do you agree with Bart's reasonable and obviously fair and impartial evaluation, in which case you too are a perceptive judge of character and have my thanks.

Nice, subtly, ironic touch on the post , btw.

On topic, (a little) what is "too far" is those people who stereotype me based on a perceived virtual persona. Then they assume that I fit their stereotype, have to believe in this and that , and proceed to blast me for things I haven't said or don't agree with because "people like me" just have to believe this or that. They absolutely refuse to accept otherwise. I don't mind a difference of opinion but when other's express "MY" opinion for me, it takes self control not to respond in kind. Defending my opinions is hard enough. Having other people tell me what my opinions are, is, for me, going "to far".

Regards

John

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Lyrical Lady
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 11:53 AM

YES YES YES !
YES Peg! You took the words right out of my mouth.
I've stayed away from this after reading the bit about beating red-headed children.

Clinton ... YOU go eat a bran muffin ... make it two... ...dozen!

With respect (but not for you Clinton)
LL

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Devilmaster
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 04:35 PM

Peg and LL - From what Peg wrote and LL agreed with, I can no more respect you two than I would Clinton for his comments. You have just proved yourselves to be on an even keel with Clinton.

Like I said before, I believe in free speech, without reservation. I dont necessarily like what Clinton has said, but I accept it. But if you two are trying to take the 'moral highground' against him, you have really blown it. You have your own opinion, I accept that too, but you are sorely mistaken if you think you are better than Hammond.

I know for a definite fact, that Clinton doesn't give a damn what is said about him here. He doesn't take mudcat too serious, using it as a tool. Perhaps over a beer or two tonight we'll probably laugh about this, me and him.

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 04:40 PM

Who me?

Drink beer and laugh at people like peg and LL?!?!

NOOOOOOO WAAAAAAAYYYY!!!

,-)

this place is way too funny...

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Peg
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 06:09 PM

Devilmaster:

so starting this thread gives your opinion sway over everyone else's, is that what you're thinking?

Not true.

And you may not be aware that Clinton has shoved his foot in his mouth more than once on this very issue, and other catters HAVE called him on it. Yet he keeps doing it. So, yes, it would seem you are right, he doesn't care what people think of him. Probably just as well. But he clearly DOES enjoy provoking people, and that he would use such hateful language to do so makes it pretty clear what sort of a person he is.

Calling someone a "faggot" insults all gays.

Calling someone an "asshole" is reserving judgment for that person alone. So, sorry, I don't buy your logic that I am "no better" than Clinton. I am way better. Not that it matters to you (or him).

While we're at it, you're BOTH assholes.

Do have a drink in my honor while you're yukking it up over faggots tonight, won't you?

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Amergin
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 06:14 PM

Sorry,Peg, but calling Clinton an asshole is insulting all asses.....

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 06:17 PM

.......and the holes aren't fairing too well either 'Gin.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: GUEST, N. S. Hole
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 06:20 PM

I'm offended.

Subject: THAT'S too far! LOL!!!!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 06:21 PM

It's only possible for me to put my foot in my mouth if I give a tinkers cuss for your opinion... which I don't...

And I don't pick on Ashly becasue he's a fag (their word, not mine... I know plenty of gay men who refer to themselves as fags and such)... I pick on him because he's a pedophile...

I do enjoy PROVOKING people... especially people like you Peg, because you make it Oh So easy to do...

You? Way better than Me?!? That's the best laugh I've had at Mudcat EVER!

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: mousethief
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 06:33 PM

I hate it when I misplace my respect.

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Peg
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 06:34 PM

Oh, I see, so you feel justified in using the word "fag" because you are ONE OF THEM?

Well, that clears everything up. Carry on then.

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 06:38 PM

My power's been off for 5 hours or I would have been here sooner. And yes, I'm an asshole, just so nobody has to say it.

Mousethief, you are NO FUN AT ALL! (I waited, and waited, and waited...)

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: mousethief
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 06:42 PM

Jeri, that's not what my wife says. Perhaps you two should discuss this out of my hearing.

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 06:48 PM

Your wife says I'm not an asshole? Wow.

(Sorry - I think I'm wrecking the mood in this thread.)

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: mousethief
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 06:52 PM

No no! My asshole says you're no fun at all.

I mean your asshole says my wife is...

I'm all mixed up. This is your fault!

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Amergin
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 06:53 PM

Jeri, if it makes you feel any better....I think you're an asshole....;-)

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 07:01 PM

LOL!!

You people are goofs...

Keep it up eh!

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: gnu
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 07:02 PM

Far out !!!!

gnu

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 07:04 PM

Thanks Amergin - I was starting to think no one liked me.

Alex - LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 07:10 PM

Hell Jeri, we all like ya'........You're an asshole's asshole.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Spud Murphy
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 07:26 PM

About a hundirt and twenty yards.

Spud

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 07:40 PM

*singing*

I'm an asshole a-yodie-oh a-yodie-oh a-yodie-oh

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Devilmaster
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 08:22 PM

*sigh* you're just proving my point for me Peg. I make a comment about your msg to clinton and I turn into an asshole too.

Its alright, thats your opinion. I've been called worse by better. But this isn't about ashley. This is about free speech. Clinton has the right to say whatever he wants about ashley. And you, using your right of free speech, can write a message about what he wrote. That is not debated by me.

I only am saying that you chastize Clinton for insulting people, then you turn around and insult him. Its called HYPOCRISY.

And because I called you on that, You go and insult me too. You're proving my point.

And since you didn't understand, I will clarify what Clinton and I will be laughing about. We won't be laughing about as you keep stating - 'faggots' but we will be laughing at how some people take things WAY too seriously.

Waiting patiently for your response, Devilmaster

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 10:12 PM

I don't want to post this to the "Bushwacked" thread so as not to refresh it. Since this one has turned into a silly thread, I figure it could be a good place to ask my question.

I think I may have killed the "Bushwacked" thread. If I did, do I get a medal or something?

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 10:37 PM

(...hehhehheh... maybe I killed this one, too...)

Subject: RE: BS: What's too far?
From: Devilmaster
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 10:38 PM

dont count on it.......