Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Fiddler's Green From: Jim Dixon Date: 27 Jan 07 - 04:58 PM Google Book Search finds several references to "Fiddler's Green" (the place, not the song). None of these shed any light on the origin of the term, but are interesting nonetheless. Here are some of the oldest ones: From "The Port Admiral" by William Johnstoun N. Neale, 1833:
"Ay," chimed in another, "who knows but 'Fiddler's Green' ain't been a quiet haven to them noways, on account of them here bones been allowed to lie without a burial." |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Fiddler's Green From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 27 Jan 07 - 06:10 PM The quotation from Neale (1833) is interesting; it may be the first connecting "Fiddler's Green" and sailors. Not in OED or Lighter. The Maxwell quotaton (1835-6?), which I cited above, remarks tailors and musicians. In "Snarleyyow, or Dog Fiend" by Marryat, Jemmy sings a derogatory song about a Port Admiral and is accused of mutiny (ch. 12). In 1834, Marryat and Neale came to blows in Trafalgar Square over Marryat's novel "Port Admiral." This is from an essay, "Trafalgar Square in History," online. Marryat also attacked (acc. to Neale) |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Fiddler's Green From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 27 Jan 07 - 06:27 PM Post cut off for some reason. Details of the fight between Marryat and Neale reported in this squib on Neale: http://www.cf.ac.uk/encap/corvey/1830s/1834.html Neale The fight also was reported in the London Newspapers. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Fiddler's Green From: Amos Date: 27 Jan 07 - 07:16 PM As usual, thanks for the excellent clarity of your scholarship. LIfe is so much easier since those Google people came along. A |
Subject: Soylent Green (Fiddlers Green parody) From: Haruo Date: 17 Jun 07 - 03:11 AM This seems an appropriate thread, to my mind, in which to take note of a "Fiddlers Green" parody I heard today. Soylent Green by Homer of Sänger & Didele. If/when I get the whole text, I'm not sure if they should go here or in the thread linked to. Haruo |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Fiddler's Green From: Cats Date: 17 Jun 07 - 05:40 AM Fiddlers Green is actually a small village just off the A30 in Cornwall on the Perranporth Road. On your next trip through the county look out for it, it's well signposted. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Fiddler's Green From: Haruo Date: 17 Jun 07 - 07:05 AM Hell, on the other hand, is divided, part is in Michigan and the rest in Norway, for that matter. So if fishermen die and go to Cornwall they're sort of splitting the difference... Haruo |
Subject: Lyr Add: GOD'S DIXIE LAND From: SouthernCelt Date: 17 Jun 07 - 03:07 PM I did some research on the song in the late nineties after hearing it on an Irish folk-song CD (an anthology of a lot of different Irish performers) and found a reference that I no longer have the URL for that attributed the "Fiddlers Green" Irish fisherman version to a variation on on an old military ballad from Scotland "Wrap Me in my Tarpaulin Coat" (or some varation thereof). I remember that this reference dated the song to the early 19th century with the notation that it was probably a derivation of an even older song now lost to the written record. When the TV movie about the Confederate submarine, the Hunley, was made a few years back, there's a pub scene where the crew is talking and in the background a fiddle player is playing Fiddler's Green. Although anyone who knew the story of the Hunley should have known that it was going to sink, I took the choice of songs for that scene to be an early hint to the uniformed that the crew was doomed. I was prompted by the lyrics of the version I have on CD to write my own version, that I called "God's Dixie Land" to describe an old Confederate soldier about to die and expecting to go to Heaven and that it would be just like Dixie Land. (I do a lot of the same kind of stuff that Jed Marum, also a Mudcatter, does if you're familiar with him except that he's an equal opportunity songwriter, covering both sides while I'm strictly Cofederate since all my ancestry in that era was.) If anyone is interested, here's my version: God's Dixie Land sung to the tune of "Fiddlers' Green") ©Wayne B. Anderson, 2000 As I walked through the campsite one evening so rare To view the gold sunset and take the fresh air, An old wounded soldier was singing a song, Oh take me away boys, my time is not long Chorus: Wrap me up in my oilcloth and blanket And dig me a grave in the sand. Just tell my old comrades that I'll be soon dead But I'll see 'em some day in God's Dixie Land. Now God's Dixie Land is a place I've heard tell Where Confederates go when they don't go to Hell. On the south side of Heaven, the side that's the best Where no Yankees can come in to disturb your rest. Chorus In God's Dixie Land it's late spring every day With the corn and the cotton just growin' away. Green pastures, fat cattle, fine horses you'll see And all the cool well water that you'll ever need. Chorus I don't need a harp nor a halo, not me. Just give me a front porch and cool blowin' breeze. I'll play my old banjo and sing me some songs, Might dance with a pretty girl if one comes along. Chorus SC |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Fiddler's Green From: Schantieman Date: 18 Jun 07 - 06:45 AM In the RN, the Buffer is the senior Rating of the Seaman branch, usually a Chief Petty Officer in big ships at least. He is responsible to the First Lieutenant (aka the Jimmy) for the state of the upper deck and all the gear thereupon - more or less the job of the bosun in days gone by. And you CERTAINLY wouldn't want to refer to him disparagingly or he might just ping you for something you'd rather not do! Steve |
Subject: RE: Lyr. Add: Fiddler's Green (T. G. Roberts) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 19 Sep 07 - 04:48 PM |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Fiddler's Green (T. G. Roberts) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 19 Sep 07 - 05:14 PM Lyr. Add: FIDDLER'S GREEN (Roberts) Theodore Goodridge Roberts ""At a place called Fiddler's Green, there do all honest Mariners take their pleasure after death; and there are Admirals with their dear Ladies and Captains of lost voyages with the sweethearts of their youth, and tarry-handed Sailormen singing in cottage gardens."" Never again shall we beat out to sea In rain and mist and sleet like bitter tears, And watch the harbour beacons fade, alee, And people all the sea-room with our fears. Our toil is done. No more, no more do we Square the low yards and stagger on the sea. No more for us the white and windless day, Undimmed, unshadowed, where the weed drifts by, And leaden fish pass, rolling, at their play, And changeless suns slide up a changeless sky. Our watch is done; and never more shall we Whistle the wind across an empty sea. Cities we saw- white walled and glinting dome- And palm-fringed islands dreaming on the blue, To us more fair the kindly sights of home- The climbing street, the windows shining true. Our voyage is done: And never more shall we Reef the harsh topsails on a tossing sea. Wonders we knew and beauty in far ports; Laughter and peril 'round the swinging deep; The wrath of God; the pomp of painted courts. . . The rocks sprang black!- And we awoke from sleep. Our task is done, and never more shall we square the low yards and stagger on the sea. Here are the hearts we love,the lips we know, The hands of seafarers who came before. The eyes that wept for me a night ago Are laughing now that we shall part no more. All grief is done; and never more shall we Make sail at dawning for the luring sea. Pp. 201-202; Bliss Carman and Lorne Pierce, chosen by, 1922 (1935 rev.), "Our Canadian Literature, Representative Verse, English and French," The Ryerson Press, Toronto. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Fiddler's Green From: dick greenhaus Date: 19 Sep 07 - 05:49 PM The only real similarity between Tarpaulin Jacket and Fiddler's green lies in the first line of the chorus--actually in the six words "Wrap me up in my" |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Fiddler's Green From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 19 Sep 07 - 07:19 PM I think it was Bob Bolton who suggested a relationship to Tarpaulin jacket, in another of the threads on this song. He was, of course, off-course and dead wrong. |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Fiddler's Green From: Lighter Date: 02 Mar 11 - 07:36 AM A bunch of us pedants were sitting around the warm glow of our monitors discussing this song. Here's my question, and it is in *no way* intended as a put-down, a criticism, or anything else snide, threatening, or negative. People who like this song should be commended for their good taste. What I'd like to know is what makes people like it so much. I mean, not many of the singers are fishermen who expect to wind up in Fiddler's Green. It's probably a hard question to answer, but I'd be interested in what Mudcatters think about it. Not enough attention is paid to what songs *mean to the people who sing them.* |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Fiddler's Green From: MartinRyan Date: 02 Mar 11 - 07:49 AM A bunch of old pedants were glooming it down, in the King Canute saloon..." ;>) |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Fiddler's Green From: Lighter Date: 02 Mar 11 - 08:01 AM The kid that handles the card catalog was humming a Schoenberg tune. |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Fiddler's Green From: MartinRyan Date: 02 Mar 11 - 08:11 AM Back of the bar, with a Playstation Game, sat Hair-splitting Dan McGrew |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Fiddler's Green From: Lighter Date: 02 Mar 11 - 08:18 AM And praising de Man, with tenure her plan, was the grad-student known as Lou. |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Fiddler's Green From: Joe Offer Date: 28 Apr 12 - 05:06 PM John Conolly has a MySpace Page with the definitive spelling of his name, PLUS his own recording of the song. -Joe- The Wikipedia article on Fiddler's Green is fascinating. |
Subject: ADD: Fiddler's Green (parody) From: Joe Offer Date: 24 Feb 21 - 11:16 PM Elizabeth Block sent an interesting parody: I don't think you have this. I think you'll want it! and I don't think there are a lot of people who still know it. Fiddlers Green (parody by Stu Cameron) Oh Fiddlers Green is a place I've heard tell Where folksingers go if they don't go to hell There's guest sets and ceilidhs if you want to play And if you're a performer you don't have to pay Dress me up in my levis and denims No more on the stage I'll be seen We'll sing the old chorus Until we get hoarse And I'll see you someday at Fiddlers Green The first time you go there you think it's a zoo Is everyone crazy, or is it just you? There's puns in profusion, the language is blue You've just been exposed to the Fiddlers Green crew The audience listens, they know every song They always can tell if you're singing it wrong You can lie at you leisure, there's no work to do If you don't feel like singing, they'll sing it for you When your song it is over and the first half is through There's a break for refreshments and a trip to the loo The bagels are toasted, the butter is free And the coffee and tea taste identically I don't want a harp or a guitar, not me Just give me a tune and I'll sing it off-key Just give me a finger to stick in my ear So I won't have to listen to what you will hear When the evening is over and you've done your bit You'll hear the sweet voices of Jim, Tam, and Grit If you don't eat your garbage please take it along Or we'll force you to listen to more of this song By the late Stu Cameron, about the now defunct folk club in Toronto. He was a member of the Friends of Fiddlers Green (the group still exists, and do a concert once a year in the fall). Jim is Jim Strickland; Tam is the late Tam Kearney; Grit is Grit Laskin. |
Subject: RE: Origins: Fiddler's Green From: GUEST,Roger. Date: 25 Feb 21 - 03:15 PM When I was away at sea Fiddlers Green was the China Bar in Keelung!! |
Subject: RE: Origins: Fiddler's Green From: GUEST Date: 26 Feb 21 - 05:10 AM maybe it's been covered above, but where did the blanket come from in the Irish version? |
Subject: RE: Origins: Fiddler's Green From: Tattie Bogle Date: 27 Feb 21 - 04:00 PM I wrote a parody myself, after one of our local fiddlers died: Tam Flanagan was a bit of a local legend, and had lost both legs having 2 "tin legs" prosthetic replacements: various stories bout hen his legs disappeared fter a few drams and pints! I did send the lyrics to John Conolly, and he was very generous in approving their use which was anyway just among friends and not for any commercial purpose. Fiddlers' Green (Special version for Tam Flanagan, RIP 11.08.03.) Song based on "Fiddlers' Green" by John Conolly. As I walked through the West Port one wet afternoon The "Black Bitch" was full and there's mony a fine tune, I heard there a fiddler plying his bow, "By the way, won't be long now till I have tae go" Chorus Dress me up in my old tartan waistcoat, No more at the "Bitch" I'll be seen, Just tell my old friends my life's reaching its end, And I'll see you some day on Fiddlers' Green. Now Fiddlers' Green is a place I've heard tell Where fiddlers go if they've played their tunes well, Where ideas inspiring flow free to your mind, And fine melodies are written of every kind. Chorus When Tam got tae fifty, the pints they flowed free, We sang him "Freewheeling", there was a tear in his e'e, He told us of stories and glories he'd known, And then he played us three tunes of his own. Chorus "By the way" says oor Tam, "That's yin o' my ain", He challenged us all tae play it again, Wi' lots of odd rhythms and changes of key, Not much chance of a sang frae you or frae me. Chorus So his fiddle lies still in the old battered case, As Tam has now gone tae his last resting place, His case told the miles and the places he'd gone, And his tunes for the fiddler will sure linger on. Chorus |
Subject: RE: Origins: Fiddler's Green From: Gordon Jackson Date: 28 Feb 21 - 05:09 AM In addition to the correct spelling of John Conolly's name, perhaps it's worthy of note that the song's title is Fiddler's Green, not Fiddlers' Green; the singular here is used to represent all fiddlers, I think. As no one has mentioned it before, I'll add that the song, in its true form, may be found in The Singing River, a book compiled by Conolly and his friend, Bill Meek, and containing twenty-five of their songs (written individually). Conolly writes: 'Based upon the traditional belief that seamen have their own unconventional version of Paradise, this song seems to have a universal appeal and has travelled all over the world. It is especially popular in Ireland where, if travellers' tales are to be believed, it has been sung in every public bar in the land (not, regrettably, by the author).' |
Subject: RE: Origins: Fiddler's Green From: weerover Date: 28 Feb 21 - 06:33 AM I have a vague memory of Jack Foley singing a parody (his own composition) based on the climbing community. The chorus began, "Hap me up in me bugbag and duvet...", but I don't remember any more of it. TB, is that Black Bitch the pub which used to host a folk club in Linithgow, hosted by Nora something, again my ageing memory being imperfect? |
Subject: RE: Origins: Fiddler's Green From: Tattie Bogle Date: 28 Feb 21 - 01:03 PM @Gordon Jackson: I have always been very careful to spell John's surname correctly, especially for any posters or other publicity for his attendance as guest at our club. Having heard the original songs many times aurally, rather than seen the title written down, I would have assumed that it referred to more than one seaman or fiddler, and therefore the apostrophe would go after the s. While I don't dispute what you say about how it appears in his songbook, I have his CD from 2013, which is entitled "The Man from Fiddlers' Green"(with apostrophe after the s. Fiddlers' Green is the last track on the CD, and also has an apostrophe after the s! And it also says "notes by John Conolly". So maybe as time has gone on and more seamen and fiddlers have gone to the Green, he has decided that the plural should be recognised? |
Subject: RE: Origins: Fiddler's Green From: Tattie Bogle Date: 28 Feb 21 - 01:16 PM @ Weerover: don't think I have heard Jack F's parody, but he has written some great songs! Yes, "The Black Bitch" pub in Linlithgow was one of several venues used by Linlithgow Folk Club, and in more recent times by Linlithgow Folk Festival Association (LFFA) for their sessions. The club was indeed run by Nora Devine, who gave first or early gigs to such people as Aly Bain, Barbara Dickson and The McCalmans. Sadly, she died in 1999, but her memory is still fresh in the minds of those who knew her. LFFA run a festival every year in September, and our outdoor stage became the Nora Devine stage. Also she was inducted into the Scottish Trad Music Hall of Fame in the last round of new inductees: Nora Devine |
Subject: RE: Origins: Fiddler's Green From: Gordon Jackson Date: 01 Mar 21 - 02:59 AM @Tattie Bogle: People do get John Conolly's name wrong, and I think we should all ensure we get it right - I wasn't suggesting you got it wrong. Regarding the apostrophe, well perhaps even John Conolly can't decide! A singular noun can be used to represent a group (e.g. The Handmaid's Tale), even though most of the time a plural noun would be used. If he writes it both ways, I suppose we can too! |
Subject: Fiddlers Green From: Pamber Date: 14 Mar 21 - 04:43 PM John Conolly has recorded two versions of his great song with the one on the album Ranter’s Wharf having different lyrics and a delightfully reflective air to it, do any of you wise men know why the different lyrics Paul Sorry of this an old question just point me to the thread! |
Subject: RE: Origins: Fiddler's Green From: Reinhard Date: 14 Mar 21 - 05:27 PM From the Ranter's Wharf liner notes: I felt that the song which gets me all the work had earned a berth on this CD, but I've recorded it several times before, and I wanted this one to be special—so I wrote some extra verses, which transport the listener to some of the alternative versions of Fiddlers' Green found in folklore and legend… The song is increasingly being used as a final farewell to old shipmates, and I hope this version may provide some comfort in those sad circumstances. |
Subject: RE: Origins: Fiddler's Green From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler Date: 15 Mar 21 - 06:01 AM We use a mixture of alternate old and new lyrics on the version that we do as Caffrey/McGurk/Madge, switching between Nick and Ed singing. Robin |
Subject: RE: Origins: Fiddler's Green From: Pamber Date: 15 Mar 21 - 12:40 PM Thanks Reinhard I have the Cd but forgot that, even in this internet age there is still such a thing as simply bloody reading the cover notes. Paul |
Subject: RE: Origins: Fiddler's Green From: Pamber Date: 15 Mar 21 - 01:16 PM So I now understand the context of the second version and have been transcribing it but my hearing is not what it was and there are some words I cannot discern. (Marked with question marks below) Are there any people with two ears that can help an old “unilug” Fiddlers Green John Conolly As I roved by the dockside one evening so rare To view the still waters and take the salt air I heard an old fisherman singing this song, Oh take me away boys, me time is not long Chorus Dress me up in me oilskins and jumper No more on the docks I'll be seen Just tell me old shipmates I'm takin a trip mates And I'll see you someday in Fiddler's Green Far over the foam lies the land of the ???? The crossing, the voyage the turn of the wheel Where fabled Valhalla once called to all men And friends long forsaken may meet once again Where all journeys end at the rim of the world The banners of Avalon now are unfurled And where is the boatman to bear me away With the fast falling sun at the close of the day Warm westerly winds my old fair weather friends Come whisper your welcome to dreams without end Old songs and old stories ring out and ring true In ???? ??????? land where all things are made new Oh I don't want a harp nor a halo, not me Just give me a breeze and a good rollin’ sea And I'll play me auld squeezebox as we sail along With the wind in the riggin to sing me this song Chorus Dress me up in me oilskins and jumper No more on the docks I'll be seen Just tell me old shipmates I'm takin a trip mates And I'll see you someday in Fiddler's Green Just tell me old shipmates I'm takin a trip mates And I'll see you someday in Fiddler's Green |
Subject: RE: Origins: Fiddlers' Green From: Reinhard Date: 15 Mar 21 - 02:09 PM Far over the foam lies the land of the leal In Tír na nÓg's land where all things are made new And on John Conolly's albums the song is consistently called Fiddlers' Green, not Fiddler's Green, so I presume that's the correct title. |
Subject: RE: Origins: Fiddler's Green From: Pamber Date: 15 Mar 21 - 02:58 PM Thanks again Reinhard Paul |
Subject: RE: Origins: Fiddler's Green (John Conolly) From: Stilly River Sage Date: 03 Jul 24 - 10:45 AM The reason why I detest Facebook is that too often people hop on there to ask music questions instead of looking to the original Mudcat site first. Any answers over there quickly drift down the page and information is lost. And for the fellow who asked today's question, the answers abounded at Mudcat already. This is the query on the Mudcat Annex over at Facebook. Use that page for announcing events and sharing photos, but keep the music research here at the Mudcat Cafe. (You can search Facebook, but the results are in no particular order or context if you know what to search for.) |
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