Peculiar Irony

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: NicoleC
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 01:10 PM

During the 1991 war, most of the news sources couldn't figure out what to call him at all -- and many of them were slinging arrows at each other while doing it wrong themselves :) There were any number of Muslim clery or linguists or college professors that could have pointed them in the right direction, but the only "specialists" the news channels hire are retired generals.

Bush the Elder MAY have meant it as an insult ('yeah, "the Destroyer" ha-ha'), but it seems more likely that a) no one looked up his name and told the president what to say, or b) Saddam is just easier to say -- which I have a hunch is why most of us use it.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 01:24 PM

Nicole, I haven't been able to find anything to corroborate your thesis that 'Saddam' is a title. (Could it be that Saddam means 'the Destroyer', the same way that Michael (or David) means 'Beloved of God'?)

The earliest accounts of Hussein's life that I have read call him Saddam. Today he appears to be called President Saddam Hussein.

Could you point me in the right direction? Thanks.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 01:53 PM

Troll-Do you think maybe our hours and benefits might be related to our tax rate?

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: NicoleC
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 01:59 PM

Here's an article from several years ago on Slate:

What's the Name of Saddam Hussein?

Although it doesn't go into detail on Iraqi names (for example, it ignores the Arab tradition of the name including the father and grandfather's names), it does give the fundamentals.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 04:32 PM

My apologies if this has already been posted, but my Find function didn't, well...find it, so:

"We should not march into Baghdad . . . . To occupy Iraq would
instantly shatter our coalition, turning the whole Arab world against
us, And make a broken tyrant into a latter-day Arab hero . . . assigning young soldiers to a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerrilla war. It could only plunge that part of the world into even greater instability."

Former President, George Bush, in his 1998 book "A World Transformed", co-authored with his National Security Advisor, Brent Scowcroft

Looks like little Dubya didn't pay attention.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 04:39 PM

That was an ominous find, kat...

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 04:55 PM

George W. Bush has the courage of Paul Wolfowitz's convictions.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: MAG
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 05:57 PM

check out Zeke Hoskin's companyhalt.com website for a take on this ..

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 07:43 PM

I think there's multiple levels of irony involved in this affair, from multiple points of view. Whatever his faults, what W. has assessed correctly is that while technology has changed drastically, human nature has not.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Troll
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 11:03 PM

Our armed forces have technology that was not available five years ago and was certainly not available in '91. Also, our intel is better now, so, while what Bush 41 wrote in '98 about Gulf War I was accurate, it does not necessarily apply in '03.
Events on the ground seem to bear this out.

troll

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 12:08 AM

Troll-The possibility of winning the guerilla war may have changed; on the other hand, the Israelis in Palestine have equipment of the same quality, and soldiers with much more experience in urban fighting, and they haven't had much luck. I don't think the political problems, "turning the whole Arab world against
us, And mak(ing) a broken tyrant into a latter-day Arab hero" are any different.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: DougR
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 02:57 AM

kat: that was then, this is now. Er...ah...you do remember 9/11, right? A lot of terrorist activities against the U. S. have happened since 1991.

You may say, "But Saddam was not involved!" I will say, "Wait and see."

DougR

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Sam L
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 03:37 AM

I don't know if Bush Sr.'s use of Saddam was meant ironically, but I do remember his pronunciation of it was unique, like Adam, with an S. As in the parody "The only thing this ruthless dictator understands is the clear and consistent mis-pronunciation of his name. Saddam."

It's a bit ironic and very troubling when a nation's military is so much more effective than their diplomacy.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 05:55 AM

Doug, don't put words into my mouth. I was offering the quote as another bit of irony. As to 9/11, you say there have been many terrorist attacks on the US since 1991...I hope you haven't forgotten that one of the major ones was OK City, perpetrated by one of the US's very own. But, then you are "scared to death" so I guess that won't matter.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: TIA
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 08:31 AM

Had to resurrect this thread, 'cause here is a beautiful example of peculiar irony:

regarding protests associated with the war in Iraq, who just said
"...there's discussion, debate, protest -- all the hallmarks of liberty."













George W. Bush (April 24, 2003)

when asked by a reporter in Ohio whether he was concerned about the massive Shiite protests against US troops in Iraq, he responded:
"In Iraq, there's discussion, debate, protest -- all the hallmarks of liberty..."

So, it's okay for Shiites, but not for Americans?
The right wing talk show bullies are all calling for American protestors to apologize.
Will they demand that the Shiites apologize?

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: MMario
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 08:33 AM

regarding Bush Sr.'s pronunciation of Saddam - I have heard the same pronunciation used by several Iraqi's being interviewed.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: TIA
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 08:43 AM

Hey, me too. I heard somewhere that the Bush Sr. pronunciation was purposeful - that it meant something like "the guy who cleans your shoes", and that Sr. was doing it to piss him off. Is this true or another urban myth? If true, maybe the Iraqis are gettin' in some licks now that he's dead and/or gone.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: DougR
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 12:12 PM

TIA: I heard the same thing at the time of the first Gulf War. Bush, Sr. was intentionally insulting Saddam.

DougR

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 14 May 04 - 08:21 AM

I'm resurrecting this one (again). This irony is not just peculiar. It's shameful and disgusting. Hypocritical, hyperpolitical, inhuman. No, I'm not a Bush-Hater, but go ahead and call me a DeLay-Hater.

"I am outraged at the inhumane treatment of American POWs by Saddam Hussein's brutal regime," said Tom DeLay. "I am fighting to hold down a deep anger at these purveyors and practitioners of torture and terror who've been wickedly exhibiting their captives over the last few days. One thing is certain – this is an immoral regime.
[April 12, 2003]

"Democracies do not starve their citizens, nor torture their dissidents"
[Tom Delay, July 30, 2003]

"Ted Kennedy said there was 'no compelling reason for war.' There are 25 million Iraqis no longer threatened by torture chambers who might disagree."
[Tom Delay, January 14, 2004]


[May 12, 2004]
After viewing pictures of Iraqi prisoners undergoing torture by US Service personnel (including one of a man being sodomized with a broomstick and bleeding) House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, said he thought "some people are overreacting. The people who are against the war are using this to their political ends."

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 May 04 - 09:40 PM

On the senate floor, Senator Inhofe contended that the incidents were no more than college pranks. John McCain left the room.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 02:19 PM

Resurrected again because...

"I think it's also important for the president to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn."

G.W. Bush on the subject of Kosovo, June 5, 1999.



"It doesn't make any sense to have a timetable. You know, if you give a timetable, you're — you're conceding too much to the enemy."

G.W. Bush on the subject of Iraq, June 25, 2005.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 07:42 AM

Hear tstopping irony/hypocrisy:

Newt Gingrich moments ago on Fox News... he was saying ..."there is good evidence that Ambassador Wilson outed his own wife, and the investigation of Rove and Libby has become THE WASHINGTON GAME OF 'DID THEY BREAK THE LAW DURING THE TIME THAT AN INVESTIGATION FOUND THAT THEY DID NOT BREAK THE LAW'..."

Emphasis mine of course.

Does he remember the Clinton impeachment? Does he remember how that played out? Does he remember that he instigated and goaded it? Do you Fox News viewers remember any of this? Can you see through this? Or, do you just not care as long as it's your team in power?

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 06:38 PM

In the election of '00, Al Gore did not win his own state.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 07:08 PM

These old threads where the sequence of the posts have got all jumbled up are really strange to read, like being stuck in some kind of time machine that is on the blink.

It's actually oddly appropriate with some topics, such as when discussing the antics of political leaders...

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Metchosin
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 08:30 PM

a peculiar irony.....so to speak.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 10 Nov 06 - 11:03 AM

Just had to resurrect for this one....

George Bush had lunch with Nancy Pelosi to discuss.....wait for it...





"the importance of working together"


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 09:07 AM

Some local irony...

Gun-toting soccer mom shot dead

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 06:15 PM

The best one ever...

An incoming Republican Congressman is pissed that he cannot get his government health care right away.....

After campaigning on repeal of government health care!!!!!!!!

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/11/16/gop_congressman_healthcare

click

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 01:11 AM

I saw a FOX news channel panel of experts discussing the new Sarah Palin SHow on open mics during a commercial break.

One guy said her show should be on the cartoon network. Another quoted the TImes quip regarding the bear being scared of the Palin family while the Post said "the Sarah Palin Alaska Show is like the Sound of Music except there are no Nazis, no romance and no music.

Subject: RE: Peculiar Irony
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 10:50 AM

Show suits her perfectly.

Beautiful scenery, no actual substance.