BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Bernard
Date: 26 Feb 06 - 02:03 PM

To me, the most sinister aspect of this is the fact they will no longer be referring to GMR a 'local' station - it is to be known as a 'regional' station.

Semantics, maybe... but it may be a way of wriggling out of obligations, methinks.

Perhaps 'mainstreaming' is a polite way of saying 'dumbing down'?

Clogger... telling them why you are ringing in is almost certainly why you didn't get air time. Don't forget, the person you speak to on the telephone is likely to be the programme's producer (or the person sitting next to them in the Ops Room!), and they will be reluctant to discuss something that hasn't been officially announced...

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Feb 06 - 03:02 PM

What age group listens to Radio GMR Alio?

I think Radio Lincolnshire attracts middle age upwards which is a bit like Radio 2 but more local and it serves the local community.

If radio GMR is similar, then the only way they can go is more like Radio One. Then they will lose a lot of peoeple.

I have to say that I like Radio One and I am 60. Got into it becuase my children who are young want to listen to it in the car. I now think it is great and funny.

However I do appreciate that a lot of poeple feel different about that.

So I feel there is a place for local radio to support the local community, and that means Folk Music in whatever form it takes.

Radio Derbyshire has an excellent 2 hour folk programme run by Mick Peat and Lester Simpson. I think thats what every region should have. It gives time for presenters to deliver a wide variety of folk music and support the local Folk Scene.

Unfortunately, Radio Lincolnshire slaps it on to the end of Drive Time at 6:35pm for 25 minutes and quite honestly does not give Tom Lane & Mark Addison enough time to deal with Folk Music in Lincolnshire which is very strong.

I have to say that it is not just about GMR, its about the whole country and we should all be lobbying BBC in London as a Folk Music group.
If everybody who is a folkie complains to one point, surely there is a bigger chance of saving local radio across the country.

This can be done by

Going to the BBC website www.bbc.co.uk/complaints and filling in the complaints form

or phoning 08700 100 222 and registering your complaint verbally which is what I have just done.

or writing to

Complaints Department
BBC
London W1 1aa

or BBC Complaints,
PO Box 1922,
Glasgow G2 3WT


I have also complained to Radio GMR

I will also complain to Radio Lincolnshire about not enough time on their station.

I basically complained that we are not getting enough folk music on local radio which is for the community and its not good enough. Plus a lot more of course about the cutting exercises that are going on which are just not acceptable. I used Radio Folkwaves as a very good example who have 2 hours of folk music. Whereas Lincs only has 25 mins and GMR was under threat.

So hit the top and local sites if we are going to get anywhere.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Bernard
Date: 26 Feb 06 - 03:54 PM

Predominantly middle aged to pensioners, Les. Thanks for your excellent advice.

Some people (myself included) listen to GMR in the car at various times during the day, but the many retired listeners tune in throughout the day and well into the evening.

Apparently the 'Drive Time' slot attracts an audience of 50,000, but our slot only 20,000. But then, people are driving home in their cars during 'Drive Time'... I think there's a clue in the name...!!

Once they are home, the telly is switched on, because most people get out of the car when they arrive home... hence the drop in audience... or am I missing something obvious?!!

Now GMR is available on DAB and online, perhaps there is a slight shift - but I would guess it's only 'ex-pat Mancs' who would access GMR that way?

Thanks for your support!

It sounds like Lincolnshire has already done what is about to happen to GMR... Radio Derbyshire, Lancashire, Merseyside and Shropshire could well be next in line for the chop if we don't do something.

Alio and I are in no position to 'make waves' ourselves, as nothing has yet been officially announced. It's very disconcerting...

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Feb 06 - 04:09 PM

I dont think anybody weould expect you 2 to make waves, that wouldn't be a smart move.

Do any of the folkclubs donate to charities run by GMR?

The reason I ask this, is that if you remember I did the Yellowbellies CD with Tom Lane and all the artists donated for nowt.
Who got this money - Radio Lincolnshire for their Gold Appeal - well over £1000.
Lincolnshire Folk Have also donated in different ways to Radio Lincolnshire Gold Appeal.
I am pretty sure other folk clubs and performers have in one way or another donated to this excellent appeal.
With that in mind, I think we should get a better deal, and maybe even more money can be donated to this appeal, by getting a better deal.

There must be ways that we can show them that the folk world is caring and do a lot for the community that should be reflected in local radio.

Look at the folk festivals - they must bring an awful lot of extra indirect and direct money to the communities of those areas where they are held.

There must be lots of examples where the folk scene across the country have contributed to the community.

Maybe everybody should be posting on here what they have done for the benefit of the community and especially local BBC Radio.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Bernard
Date: 26 Feb 06 - 07:47 PM

Sorry, Les, been out to the Open Door folk club...!

Yes, I remember that excellent 'Yellowbellies' CD - we played some tracks from it!

I do understand where you're coming from... maybe we should dig deep and see what we can find. There have been many occasions where we have publicised charity events, and we're involved with a particularly tricky one now - Jenny Pope, who disappeared in Ecuador a few short weeks ago... her husband and family have produced a fundraiser CD, which we played a track from last week. They wrote and recorded the songs which are on the CD.

Alio will be able to explain it better... but this is the sort of stuff we should be able to handle, instead of being watered down into 'mainstream' airtime.

We're in the studio as usual tonight (Monday), and will keep you posted of any developments.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Feb 06 - 02:19 AM

Thats exactly the sort of thing Bernard. Instead of having a go at BBC its more about how much they need the Folk World.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Feb 06 - 04:40 AM

I have emailed GMR. Can anyone refresh my memory on the sequence of events between Mike Billington's show and 'Sounds of Folk'? Wasn't Mike's show on GMR until it was dropped. Was Ali's show not then brought on to replace it (eventualy!) 'by popular demand'? If so can it not be pointed out this excercise has failed before?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: GUEST,Mark Dowding (at work)
Date: 27 Feb 06 - 05:07 AM

I think a lot depends on the whims and tastes of who's in charge of the station at various times. If you've got a manager that likes folk music then chances are you'll get a folk music programme if you shout loud enough. I think it was years between Mike Billington's prog and Ali's prog - long enough for a change of personnel at the top of the tree. As an analogy - if you like liver and come to my house for tea you won't get liver no matter how many letters and emails you send me!

Have a listen tonight anyway - Ali's got a guest on flogging his new CD - Mark erm something or other....

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Feb 06 - 05:24 AM

Mark

It shouldn't be about wether somebody likes liver or not.

BBC local radio is about supporting the local community and to have somebody who is biased, then they shouldn't be in that job.

Les

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: GUEST,Mark Dowding (at work)
Date: 27 Feb 06 - 05:53 AM

Les - You know that and I know that - if we ran the station we'd have a bit of everything and hopefully please most of the listeners somewhere through the week (wasn't that what GMR was like a couple of weeks ago??)
To continue the analogy - I could do Liver, Sausage and Bacon in a rather tasty gravy - you can have the liver and I'll have the sausage and bacon - best of both worlds!

Cheers
Mark (who's now feeling rather hungry)

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Feb 06 - 06:16 AM

Mark
I luuuuuuuuuv Liver - your on :-)
Les

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 27 Feb 06 - 01:57 PM

A few years ago we were asked to write in to Mike Shaft at GMR, stressing the need for a folk programme.

I was one of the many who emailed Mike, amd he invited me in as he presumed that because of my connections with Saddleworth Folk Festival, that I would know something about the subject.

After we'd chatted for a while he offered me the job...and the rest is history of course!!

So yes, it was brought back by popular demand - but not particularly as a replacement I suppose. I didn't know enough about Mike's way of presenting, so I decided on my own style and content.

Ali

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Feb 06 - 03:36 PM

Best way Ali

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 01:50 PM

Going on from the earlier discussions about being a resource for the community, last night we covered an obituary of the folk world, we responded to a request to give out information on 3 fundraisers for the Jenny Pope appeal (the missing Tameside nurse), and asked for help for a folkie from the Todmorden area who has sight problems, so would like help with transport to get to gigs etc..

When we and others go, who's going to do these?

Ali

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 01:59 PM

These are the things that the powers that be need to take on board.

Keep on tracking and putting it in here Ali.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 02:29 PM

The point is about costs and value for money. Sunday on GMR has Jimmy and Eamon, the fat lads from 9 till 11. A phone in with records followed by Fred Fielder, a pi with rs, a programme so naff it sounds like a spoof. This is followed by another record session of music from the 40s and 50's. This takes us to around 3 unless football is on.

Sounds like folk is clearly more expensive but much better value for money.

I guess we will have to settle for live music?

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Bernard
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 04:44 PM

I wouldn't have thought 'Sounds of Folk' was a particularly expensive programme to produce... after all, our studio guests don't get paid, and we don't have that many telephone guests (the Beeb foots the bill for the call only).

There aren't any research costs involved, unlike some of the 'chat' programmes that have a team of researchers keeping tabs on things - Allan's programme, for example.

Admittedly we include between seven and ten CD tracks (or live performances) per programme, but some of them are either 'White Label' or not registered for PRS - which still have to be logged after the show. We do have to log live performances, so PRS royalties rules still apply.

Although Ali is paid a flat rate as a freelance presenter, Jenny and I are both volunteers - so replacing me with a BBC producer actually costs more!

We occasionally pre-record items for the programme, which isn't always done in the studio. For example, we pre-recorded an interview with Dervish at the Burnley Mechanics Institute a few weeks ago. It was recorded and transferred to CD for broadcasting using my own equipment, and so cost the Beeb nothing!!

It will probably be another two weeks before we eventually learn the fate of the programme...

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 03:06 PM

Refresh

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 05:20 PM

Bernard,

You have said it all. Not much can replace Sounds of Folk in terms of quality and value for money. Maybe City beating Ch or Man U again, but that won't happen every week.

S of F is growing can't we ask for a bit longer to show what is possible?

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 05:48 PM

Well as long as Man City don't beat Aston Villa, I will still support you all :-)

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 12:06 PM

A goal in the 94th minute of a 93 minute match was a bit close but maybe not for City.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 12:59 PM

I think the referee was bribed by Man City :-)

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 01:03 PM

.....and now back to my problems please!!!! Enough of football!!

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 01:09 PM

I guess any kind of reasonable communications:

letters
petitions
e-mails
posts on BBC websites
phone ins

Couldn't this be organised through the Northwest Federation of Folk Clubs, the EFDSS, the Camping and Caravan Club, the Morris Ring, People who run festivals - all these organisations have keep us all on e-mail the must have massive data bases through which support could be roused?

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 01:19 PM

Bernard said "I wouldn't have thought 'Sounds of Folk' was a particularly expensive programme to produce... after all, our studio guests don't get paid..."

That explains why the cheque hasn't arrived!

Seriously though it was great to be on the programme on Monday with John Howarth of the Oldham Tinkers - it was a good programme with some reminiscing of the old days, a track from Harry Boardman, a couple of tracks from John and the Tinkers and a couple of track from me (including the original version of "At Rawtenstall Fair") as well as a load of other stuff. I don't know how it all fits in to 55 minutes! Mind you the panic on Ali's face says it all when time's getting on and she has to get three things into five minutes - good job it's not the telly.

The BBC are making one hell of a mistake to take programmes like this off. Whether writing in will make a diddly squot of difference I can't say but we need enough people to write in anyway to make bosses aware of the feeling out here. Perhaps we can get a petition round our local folk club or just tell people to write in - different letters are probably better than a lot of signatures on a piece of paper in one envelope.

There isn't much time left so do it now! (I could add a few expletives a la Bob Geldoff here but my mother might be reading this)

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 01:27 PM

What's wrong with my face? (please don't all answer at once!!!)

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 01:31 PM

Our posts crossed Les.

Unfortunately the Folk North West magazine has just been published for this quarter and the news broke too late for anything to be mentioned in it but I'm sure something will be said in the next edition in June albeit too late.

I'm trying to upload something about it onto the website but the server won't let me get on there for some reason at the moment which is very frustrating. When I do get access there will be banner headlines on it!

Perhaps a letter to member clubs from Dave Jones (Chairman) would be an idea. I'll talk to Kath Holden about that.

We need to see what's going to happen in April when the new regime is supposed to start. If Ali gets a half hour slot in someone elses show we need to make sure we make that presenter aware of our presence by writing and emailing to him/her after Ali's been on. Let them know there's an audience out there that want folk music and not traffic reports. (although a traffic report would have been handy on Monday before I got stuck on the M62 going to the studio.)

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 02:42 PM

Well I was on Radio Lincolnshire last night for their Folk broadcast (25 minutes at the end of drivetime)with Tom Lane. It was very tight and Tom ran out of time.
Started with a number from The Harbour Lights and a little conversation about them.
Then a quickly about Graham Moore & Gill Redmond coming to my club and a song from Graham.
Then Tom had a telephone interview with a lady singer (name slips my mind) about a ladies choir that was setting up.
Tom was supposed to play a number of hers, but didn't have time, as Mark Addison had to do the diary.
By the time that was finished it was too late to put a tune or song on.

I thought it was a real shame. I think it should be an hour so that justice could be done.

So I guess I am saying that you should be fighting to keep the hour. 30 minutes is not enough.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 04:59 AM

The Parlour (the show before mine) have accepted a 30 min. slot in Drivetime, but it sounds very prescriptive. They've been told that they can do interviews and have live music, but they're not to play tracks.

Admittedly they are a Community magazine-type programme, but they do play plenty of tracks at present. I wouldn't want to be bound by those conditions I'm afraid - I play tracks from CD's of artists appearing in the area.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 02:23 PM

It is vey difficult to see how GMR is doing something better by cutting The Parlour to 30 minutes.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 08:07 AM

Agreed - they've been going for over 20 years. The national Irish Post are NOT impressed, and have made their views quite clear!!

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 06:34 AM

No programme tonight - Wigan Athletic v Man Utd is more important!

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: andrewq
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 07:00 AM

OT but on related NW folk culture cleansing:

Any of you interested in the part that cotton played in the development of Lancashire towns should try to get along to the Lewis Textile Museum in Blackburn this month. The wreckers at Blackburn with Darwen Council are closing the museum down for good on April 1st to save £23,000pa. The museum was gifted to the town to be a perpetual record of King Cotton and has interactive displays and remeniscence material about workers' lives in the cotton industry. Legions of school children and visitors to the town have benefited from the museum over the years and its closure is a very sad prospect.

http://archive.thisislancashire.co.uk/2006/3/1/887615.html

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 07:12 AM

If we don't keep half an eye on the past then we go blindly into the future.

From the article:

Coun Hollern told detractors: "If there is a cheaper way of providing something, we have to do it.

"Times change and those who criticise have to accept that. We don't have a hangman anymore either, because it's not something we do.

"Nor do we employ a gas lighter-upper because we don't need him to light up our street lamps anymore. We can't stay in the past.

"I don't believe there will be any loss of service or facility.

"We aren't selling the Lewis building, but we will lease it out. Councils have to continually find more cost-efficent ways of running.

"It will continue to be an asset to the borough, as it was intended to be when it was given to us as a gift."

Tory leader Council Colin Rigby said: "It is a classic case of the council putting up tax and reducing services.

"It does not send a very good message to people that not even the council is preserving history."

Lib Dem leader Coun Paul Browne said: "They never told us they were going to open it again, and now they're shutting it on the quiet.

"It's a disgrace that the history of the town's industry now does't deserve its own museum according to the Labour lot.

"That building was a gift to the borough as were the exhibitions. They should remain that way. They weren't given to us to make money from."

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Bernard
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 10:54 AM

Money talks, my oh my!

I heard it once... it said 'Goodbye!'...

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 02:34 PM

As a Labour Party loyalist I would like to say, in fact I will say, it is a short sighted disgrace

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 02:45 PM

Much as I empathise with the comments regarding the Lewis Museum, I think it detracts from this thread. I am no longer surprised by labour councils doing what I would once have expected from tory councils. This is our history and our heritage that is being denied to younger generations and only adds to the great globalisation (Americanisation) of our culture. I can only hope that there will be a protest against the closure from the good people of Blackburn.

I know such a word as Americanisation is, in itself, an Americanisation but if they can bastardise our langauage, why can't I

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 02:54 PM

Oy oy oy, nobody can do it as bad as the labour councils. Pay massive increases and get half as much back. The country is going to the dogs.
That reminds me I have a duo called Gone2TheDogs on at my club on Friday - I wonder if it is Tony Blair and Gordon Brown.

Whoever's fault it is, it just ain't good enough.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 03:36 PM

It is a distraction so I won't go into ................. ok I won't

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 11:04 AM

Let's get back on track - any more news from Ali or Bernard about the fate of the programme? Are we going to have a glorified diary spot or a proper programme?

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 11:14 AM

Well John Ryan should be back now. So I will await a reply back from my e-mail that I sent on 24/02/06.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Bernard
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 11:21 AM

We've heard nowt...

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 12:19 PM

I got a reply to my mail over a week ago. Pretty bland but thanked me for my time to write and my opinions would be considered type of thing.

Considering I didn't expect any I was surprised.

Spot the Dog

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 01:23 PM

OK I will re-wing it back to him then.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Rasener
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 01:32 PM

I have re-sent it. See if I get a reply.

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 01:57 PM

Still heard nothing...and only 3 programmes to go before the changes take effect!
And in the next programme we've got locals the Time Bandits in the studio, plus Clive Gregson popping in, and the Fureys via a telephone line!
Ali

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Bernard
Date: 08 Mar 06 - 04:46 AM

Correction... the Time Bandits are guesting on March 20th - March 13th includes song trio Wench All...!

The Time Bandits website wasn't working at the time of writing...

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 08 Mar 06 - 05:09 AM

I've just sent a comment via the BBC information website mentioned previously.
www.bbc.co.uk/complaints

It's a bit longwinded to get to the part of the site that you want but stick with it and you'll get there. Apparently comments get read daily by senior management.

A reply is not guaranteed but somebody reads your comments

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Alio
Date: 08 Mar 06 - 06:24 AM

Oops, thanks Bernard.

Would I have been saying the right things to the wrong people, or the wrong things to the right people??!!

Subject: RE: BBC GMR Axes Community Programmes!
From: Leadfingers
Date: 08 Mar 06 - 06:46 AM

'Comments are read by Senior management' - Maybe READ , and then totally ignored !!

Oh and by the way , 100 !!