Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-Oct11)

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 09:43 AM

I'm not a legal expert, but I'd think that the difference between "not guilty" and "not enough evidence to convict" is mostly semantic.

U.S. juries are not supposed to convict if there is "reasonable doubt." That, of course, is a subjective standard, but the idea is that if anyone on the jury seriously doubts the defendant's guilt there will be a hung jury. That means either a new trial or, if the prosecution reconsiders (as sometimes happens), it means the defendant's release.

"Insufficient evidence to convict," I suppose, could be the equivalent of a hung jury. Both can encourage lingering suspicion regardless of how many jurors had what they considered "reasonable doubt." In some cases, one juror's "reasonable doubt" may be total obtuseness. The same factors can be involved in a verdict of "insufficient evidence."

As we all know, justice is imperfect and the innocent are sometimes convicted and the guilty sometimes go free. But in this case, there really appears to be no compelling evidence that A & R committed murder.

As for the level of coverage, there was a heinous crime involving attractive young women, drugs, sex, and allegations of satan worship. Then there was the possibility that the defendants had been railroaded.

Media executives would have had to be superhuman to resist.

As for the rain forests, public opinion might really be galvanized if pretty girls were being put in jeopardy by the clearing operations.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 09:44 AM

Case closed.

Not really! The judge has to give his written report giving reasons for the acquittals in 90 days so I think that what he has to say is very important. The prosecution wants to appeal against the acquittals. Rudy Guede wants a re-trial. Presumably the police are still working on the case.

......... and YES the Amazon rainforest is more important and Meredith Kercher's family have been hugely overlooked by the media and it looks as if they will continue to be hugely overlooked by them. This is particularly disappointing when it is being done by the British media.

In the meantime it isn't going to go away and Max Clifford has things to say. :)

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: BTNG
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 10:25 AM

Case closed...I don't think so, this a case that's not going away in hurry, there are still issues to be dealt, and, of course, there is money to be made, from book and film deals, I'm sure there are a number of those in the works

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 10:43 AM

It'll drag on a bit, and a few more headlines, but before too long the caravan will have moved on.   

And a few years on there'll be some vaguely similar case and someone will be writing something akin to what Dzabo wrote a few posts back, but it will be - "This all reminds me of that American student (can't remember her name) who was accused of murdering her flatmate in Italy."

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 10:59 AM

Louise Woodward has not been allowed to profit from her experiences and as a result we hear very little about her. This is different and I think we will have Amanda Knox rammed down our throats for years to come. Raffaele Sollecito will probably continue to keep a low profile and he may well fade from our memories.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 12:39 PM

When Amanda Knox is rammed down your throat you'll always be able to change the channel, leave the room - or not buy the books or magazines she'll be featured in.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: BTNG
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 12:48 PM

"When Amanda Knox is rammed down your throat you'll always be able to change the channel, leave the room - or not buy the books or magazines she'll be featured in."



and you'd still not be able to avoid it, not the way the media works these days so eanjay's point is legitimate

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 01:36 PM

you'd still not be able to avoid it

I think I will. I suppose it might be harder in the USA.
...........................

I can't see how Raffaele Sollecito could really have a lower profile than he has had. You'd hardly know he'd been in the case at all - and ironically there doesn't really seem to have been any evidence against him, once the dodgy "forensics" has been totally discredited.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: BTNG
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 01:51 PM

I was indeed thinking of North America, Canada, the U.S. and Mexico. Short of living in a log cabin somewhere high in the Rocky Mountains, with no television, no nothing there'd be no way of avoiding exposure to this

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 01:55 PM

Amazon.com lists no fewer than ten books *already published* for your reading enjoyment.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: BTNG
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 02:04 PM

errr...no thanks

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 02:17 PM

The media love such stories. Another controversial case is that of Madeleine McCann. Her parents were investigated by Portuguese authorities looking into their daughter's disappearance.


Britain's ambassador to Portugal, Alexander Wykeham Ellis, made headlines with remarks he reportedly made to his American counterpart in Washington, US Ambassador Al Hoffman regarding Portuguese police naming Gerry and Kate McCann as "arguidos", or formal suspects, in the case.

The McCann case remains unsolved. Gerry and Kate McCann admitted leaving their children alone in the apartment while they went out to a party with friends.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 02:17 PM

I can't see how Raffaele Sollecito could really have a lower profile than he has had. You'd hardly know he'd been in the case at all

Exactly, this whole thing hasn't been about him or Meredith Kercher or her family ~ it has all been about Amanda Knox and we probably have the Seattle public relations specialist, David Marriot, who was hired by Amanda Knox's family to thank for some of that. It isn't going to fade away; there is no escape from it.

Also, in the back of my mind I seem to remember a report somewhere which stated that Amanda Knox at one point said that Raffaele had done it. I can't find it so I could have got that wrong. I wonder how much of what she says in interviews and the book she is planning to write will be the truth.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 02:19 PM

Anyone who keeps up with this story WANTS to keep up with it. I repeat - unless your TV doesn't have a remote all you'll have to do is hit the mute button or change the channel. And you don't even have to reopen this thread.

It's simple.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: BTNG
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 02:33 PM

Lead by example Wesley S

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 02:35 PM

Old news already. Now that she is safe back in Seattle, coverage is absent.

Nothing in NY Times or Washington Post online, and CNN has dropped it- Steve Jobs, Palin, Obama, Boehner and political posing, China currency sanctions, banks and the Wall Street protestors, and brief note of the European debt problem and Ghadaffi are the main headlines.
Tidbits such as ESPN boots Hank Williams Jr., mountain lions snoozing on a front porch, etc., etc.

Always lots of books which few ever read.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 02:39 PM

Exactly, this whole thing hasn't been about him or Meredith Kercher or her family ~ it has all been about Amanda Knox and we probably have the Seattle public relations specialist, David Marriot, who was hired by Amanda Knox's family to thank for some of that. It isn't going to fade away; there is no escape from it.


There was a line in an article the other week that said '..the Knox family are not wealthy..' and immediately went on to say the y had so far spent over a million on PR to drive the case toward it's desired conclusion.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 02:58 PM

The English tabloid and yellow sheet papers may keep the story alive overseas for a while, but it is yesterday's flavor in the U.S. and Canada.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: BTNG
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 03:04 PM

pushed off the front pages by the death of Steve Jobs, though as is stated, the stories will probably hang on for a bit in the UK

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 04:38 PM

I rather doubt if PR would have had any significant effect, apart perhaps from encouraging the mobbing, which I imagine wouldn't have been the intention.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 04:51 PM

PR had a massive effect. It was partly because of PR that we heard so much about one person and how innocent that person was and not a lot about everyone else. If it wasn't going to be effective I very much doubt that the Knox family would have paid for it when they clearly would have struggled to do so.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 05:12 PM

No significant effect on the trial is what I mean. Why would the jury members - technically "lay judges", sitting along with professional judges - have taken any particular notice of that kind of stuff, when they could see the defendants in court every day?

"The six jurors – Angeletti and five women – were selected using more demanding educational criteria than those at Knox's and Sollecito's first trial. The lay judges for the appeal had to have spent 13 years at school and obtained a high school diploma. Angeletti said he had heard appeals in four other murder trials." (from here).

Why would the parents do all they could to get their daughter's side of things presented as favourably as they could? Because they were her parents, and they believed she was innocent, I imagine. Wouldn't anyone do that in that situation? That doesn't mean they were spending the money too sensibly.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 05:35 PM

For those who are feeling betrayed by the verdict, here are extracts from the Daily Mail's version, written in advance and initially published on their website when they mistakenly though the verdict had gone the other way. Embellished with made up details and quotes - that's the Daily Mail for you...

    "As Knox realised the enormity of what judge Hellman was saying she sank into her chair sobbing uncontrollably while her family and friends hugged each other in tears.

    A few feet away Meredith's mother Arline, her sister Stephanie and brother Lyle, who had flown in especially for the verdict remained expressionless, staring straight ahead, glancing over just once at the distraught Knox family.

    Prosecutors were delighted with the verdict and said that 'justice has been done' although they said on a 'human factor it was sad two young people would be spending years in jail'".

    "Following the verdict Knox and [Raphael] Sollecito were taken out of court escorted by prison guards and into a waiting van which took her back to her cell at Capanne jail near Perugia and him to Terni jail, 60 miles away.

    Both will be put on a suicide watch for the next few days as psychological assessments are made on each of them but this is usual practice for long term prisoners."

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: BTNG
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 05:47 PM

" I very much doubt that the Knox family would have paid for it when they clearly would have struggled to do so"

perhaps someone(s) who stands to gain exclusive rights to interviews etc. perhaps

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 06:10 PM

I think you could be right there. :)

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 06:20 PM

McGrath, I know papers write obituaries way ahead of time, but this is ridiculous!

Of course, there's nothing in there that's improbable. If the appeal had been denied, a few actual details could have been tossed in on the spot, a minor revision here and there. Think of the time the writer would have saved.

And presumably the acquittal version had also been written long ago,and appropriate modifications were made.

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes. So I'm going to stop thinking about it immediately.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 06:57 PM

"For those who are feeling betrayed by the verdict, here are extracts from the Daily Mail's version, written in advance and initially published on their website when they mistakenly though the verdict had gone the other way. Embellished with made up details and quotes - that's the Daily Mail for you..."

Kevin, Have you a link for this please.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 07:27 PM

Here's a link to a page reproducing the prefabricated story - the Daily Mail websites have of course deleted it in embarrassment on their own sites.

To be fair, some other British papers' sites got it wrong too, and flashed up the wrong verdict. But they didn't write up colourful eyewitness reports of something that never happened, complete with made-up quotes.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 07:28 PM

"As for the rain forests, public opinion might really be galvanized if pretty girls were being put in jeopardy by the clearing operations."


They are..........
Sheyla Juruna speaking about Belo Monte

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 09:13 PM

And now media are filling space and airtime with a manslaughter trial against some doctor who is alleged to have killed a pop singer.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 17 Feb 12 - 06:18 AM

Knox just signed a £2.5 book deal. Probably called "Being American helps when the charge is murder"

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Feb 12 - 08:16 AM

Which shelf will the book be on ........... fiction?

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Paul Burke
Date: 17 Feb 12 - 03:13 PM

£2.50? What a ripoff.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Feb 12 - 03:30 PM

The contract is with HarperCollins for US$4 million (you convert to European currencies).
Release expected early 2013