Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-Oct11)

Subject: RE: BS: Cold-blooded murder or Manslaughter ?
From: robomatic
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 04:29 PM

Did he plead for mercy from the court on the grounds that he was an orphan?

Subject: RE: BS: Cold-blooded murder or Manslaughter ?
From: GUEST,Falco
Date: 04 Dec 09 - 07:15 PM

News just in, Amanda Knox and her former boyfriend are found guilty in Italy of murdering British student Meredith Kercher in 2007.

Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Knox found Guilty in Italy
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Dec 09 - 11:04 PM

Robo - I take it your first line should have read 'has NOW been found guilty...'?

My apologies. I accidentally lost robo's post in the transfer when combining both threads.
el joe clone

Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Knox found Guilty in Italy
From: GUEST,999
Date: 04 Dec 09 - 11:08 PM

"An American student, who along with her former Italian boyfriend, was accused of killing her British roommate, has been found guilty of murder by a court in Italy. Amanda Knox was found guilty on all charges and received 26 years in prison."

Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Knox found Guilty in Italy
From: Alice
Date: 04 Dec 09 - 11:21 PM

I almost threw up when I heard this news today. A travesty. There was no proof that she was involved.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox found guilty
From: Amos
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 12:40 AM

As I said before, I think this is an awful miscarriage of justice, from what data I have. It sounds as though she were railroaded.


A

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox found guilty
From: GUEST,999
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 01:48 AM

The jury was allowed to watch television and news stories about her. In essence, she was tried by the media. I hope the appeal is fairer to her.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox found guilty
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 01:44 PM

Her immediate return to the United States should be demanded by Secretary of State Clinton.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox found guilty
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 02:59 PM

She WAS involved in the cover-up!

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox found guilty
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 03:16 PM

I didn't follow the initial coverage, but a quick Google for information on the evidence supplied to support the prosecutions case, seemed to turn up very little of any substance whatever.

I read lots about *theories* of drug fumed sexual attacks gone wrong & staged fake break ins, but couldn't find much in the way of the actual *facts* of the case supporting those theories at all - perhaps due to weak journalism of those articles I pulled up?

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox found guilty
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 04:02 PM

I was fascinated by the alternate depictions of Amanda Knox's character as either innocent young student or depraved drug fiend into sex orgies.

The reportage indicates the main thing held on her is her travesty of lies to the cops trying to frame an innocent black man. then her story changed from being at the scene of the murder during its commission to an entirely different one.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox found guilty
From: GUEST,Falco
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 04:19 PM

They got long sentences and deserved them. let's hope American dipomats don't pull one of their usual overseas tricks and get her released to the states to serve about 18 months of her sentence.

I hope both of them rot in an Italian prison. They robbed a family of a beautiful daughter and took a young life.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox found guilty
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 04:32 PM

The evidence was a travesty; typical of Italian 'justice'.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox found guilty
From: GUEST,Falco
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 04:40 PM

How can you say that Q ?
She is a deranged psychopath. As is her equally sick boyfriend Raffaele Suckacheeto.

Despite desperate attempts by Knox's nauseating parents to paint their psycho daughter as sweet and innocent, the Italian jury concluded what everyone has known all along: she and Raffaele are a pair of demented perverts who murdered a trusting girl after she refused to take part in their sick sex game.

Knox was seen giggling within hours of the murder. She and Raffaele went shopping for lingerie the next day, and Knox did cartwheels at the police station where she was taken for questioning. All of which her parents insist is normal behaviour and not in the slightest sociopathic.

Her father will now launch an appeal. He said Amanda's a good Christian girl and that Jesus would want her freed. The Knoxes will ask the Christian Coalition in America's Deep South to help fund their appeal.

Could only happen in America !

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox found guilty
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 04:45 PM

All the usual hearsay and magpie prattle, Falco.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox found guilty
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 04:48 PM

At least *I* know enough to admit that *I* have no knowledge of what the truth is in this. I wonder how so many can be so sure....either way.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox found guilty
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 04:49 PM

I haven't followed the case closely, but I thought these days DNA technology would make such verdicts quite conclusive, either way..?

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox found guilty
From: GUEST,Falco
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 04:50 PM

No Q, not hearsay. FACT. Verdict stands, consider it a result for justice. I was pleased to hear the outcome.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox found guilty
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 05:12 PM

"The reportage indicates the main thing held on her is her travesty of lies to the cops trying to frame an innocent black man. then her story changed from being at the scene of the murder during its commission to an entirely different one."

Ah yeah - she claimed that smoking a joint or two made her either heard or imagine she heard or forget she was there or something (depending on which scene she recounted) the bloody screams of her room-mate? Odd indeed. Dope or booze have never affected me so much that I'd be too "fuzzy" to notice or react to screaming. I'm sure we've all been there (the stoned & drunk state, not murderous screams).

This really made her sound implicated to me anyway. But I'd really like to know more about the FACTS.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox found guilty
From: Lox
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 05:15 PM

This bothers me.

It looks like she's hiding something, only we don't know what.

I know that if I was being questioned about a murder I would tell no lies for fear of getting wrongly convicted.

The whole thing remains very weird and very mysterious.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox found guilty
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 05:52 AM

Well today is the day Amanda Knox learns the outcome of her appeal.

Let's hope the fact that she lied through her teeth, implicated an innocent man and changed her story 6 times has not gone unnoticed by the appeal judges.

I have no doubt the cheque book and American Embassy will prove to be the deciding factor in this case.

Americans seem to be always innocent and immune from prosecution abroad. Hmmm, rather strange.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox found guilty
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 03:52 PM

What a shock (not) she was cleared. Thank you America.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox found guilty
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 04:16 PM

She's certainly fortunate not to have such an open-minded judge as you on her case.

SRS

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox found guilty
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 04:34 PM

I'm with Bill D. I haven't sat in the court room and heard all the testimony, or had access to the evidence. I think that people who make up their minds about things like this based only on what's reported are quite likely



wrong.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox found guilty
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 04:40 PM

I guess no one dares to harm on American on foreign soil nowadays. A few years back in Romania a drunken marine driving his car, killed a civilian. He was immediately sent to the US, and cleared.

Just shows that if you're American with enough money you can get away with anything. It has been happening for years.

The dignity the Kercher family have shown compared to the way the brash gobby yanks have behaved speaks volumes. If the useless, lazy Italians had done their jobs properly in the first place this wouldn't have happened.



My thoughts are with the Kercher family at this time. My heart goes out to them.


Seen this coming a mile off ..............

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 05:18 PM

Clearly Bluesman knows all about this case, unlike the jury who heard the evidence.

I'd suspect that, if anything, the fact that Amanda Knox was American would have tended to make it less likely that she (along with Raffaele Sollecito) would be acquitted. I've never heard of any national stereotype that suggests that some Americans aren't seen as capable of violent crimes, to say the least.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Wesley S
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 05:43 PM

"Just shows that if you're American with enough money you can get away with anything. It has been happening for years."


Bluesman - You DO know that the blues came from America don't you? So why the hatred for America and Americans? What knowledge of the case do you have that the courts didn't? Or do you just like to yank chains?

I would have thought that World War Two would have made you more gratful to the Americans { maybe THAT won't be deleated }.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Wesley S
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 05:52 PM

"Just shows that if you're American with enough money you can get away with anything. It has been happening for years."

Examples please...

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 05:53 PM

Salon take on the Knox trial: She's lucky it was in Italy, not her home state of Washington.

SRS

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 06:18 PM

Don't they need evidence in Washington?

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 07:28 PM

I'm quite sure Americans get away with crimes in other countries, but those people never make it to trial. I can't second guess those who had direct access to evidence and testimony. I don't think nationality had much to do with it--at least I hope it didn't.

It's prime troll material, and the usual troll fuck-buddies will continue to volunteer to be led down the anti-American path. I suspect arguments that are personal in nature will be deleted.

Article in the Rolling Stone. I haven't read the whole thing yet, what I have read makes it seem there was an awful lot of logic gymnastics involve in trying her, let alone convicting her.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 08:07 PM

I don't think nationality had anything to do with it; I think the Italian police investigation was the problem. I also think that the media should not have focussed on one person when this was not about just one person. I feel very sorry for Meredith Kercher's family ~ not only have they lost her in a most horrific way but at times she almost seemed to pale into insignificance.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: fat B****rd
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 06:26 AM

I'm with eanjay regarding Miss Kercher. I could feel a little more pleased for Miss Knox if just one member of her family/entourage made just one sympathetic mention regarding Meredith Kercher and her family.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 06:56 AM

Knox is a sociopath, born liar, and bad actor. She is a murderer, not a cute kid, not innocent, and not a victim. It just beggars belief that someone as calculating, cynical, arrogant and deluded as Knox has supporters beyond her immediate family.



The evidence screams of Amanda Knox's guilt. It is amazing how pressure and money can influence decisions, helped on no doubt by U.S. senator Maria Cantwell's remark, that there were 'serious questions about the Italian justice system' and claimed there had been an anti-American element at the trial.


You can be sure that (I let my husband make a public laughing stock out of me) Hilary Clinton had her fat arse planted in a chair in Italy recently.

Let us not forget that there is a dead girl and that is the bottom line but as usual Amanda Knox and her sociopath nature takes all of the headlines and creates the media circus and publicity hype she so badly craves.

RIP Meredith, at the end of the day God will be our judge and Amanda Knox knows exactly what she is and what went on, so best of luck to her going through life knowing she has an innocent life on her hands.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 07:15 AM

The evidence screams of Amanda Knox's guilt. It is amazing how pressure and money can influence decisions

I'm sure money helps a person to get the people who can make the best defence case but I think that's as far as it goes.

I will admit to feeling some degree of unease over Knox's aquittal but rather than believing the evidence screams of her guilt, I think it highly unlikely that I would be have able to consider her guilty beyond reasonable doubt had a been a juror in this appeal.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Lighter
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 08:12 AM

My theory based on some but limited knowledge of the case:

Amanda and Rafael were in the house, stoned out of their minds, at the time of the murder. They had nothing to do with it. When they discovered what happened, they took off in a panic for fear they'd be killed too.

Hence, no alibi.

After forty hours of nonstop police interrogation, people confess to anything. It's happened before, and not just in Italy.

Furthermore, the convicted murderer, whose DNA was found everywhere, including on the corpse, incriminated Amanda and Rafael in exchange for a fifty percent reduction in his sentence. He wound up with sixteen years for a heinous murder while A & R, with no substantive evidence against them, got a quarter century each.

It's worth remembering that as part of the Italian appeals process, actual judges were part of the appeals jury.

With no physical evidence, no reliable eyewitness, no motive, no prior record of violence or any wrongdoing, the original convictions were unquestionably miscarriages of justice. Regardless of what may or may not have happened, earthly standards were clearly served by the acquittals.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 08:22 AM

Amazing the way Bluesman knows so much more about this than the jury (including judges) who decided these two people were wrongly convicted.

The news coverage about people screaming in the street at the verdict rather confirms my suggestion that, if there is any prejudice in this case, it would have been the other way round.

There seems to be a suggestion that the horrible nature of Meredith's death somehow reduces the need for solid evidence. That kind of thing is completely irrelevant when reaching a verdict.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 09:29 AM

I don't know whether Knox is guilty or not, but what made the biggest impression on me was the contrast between the raucous circus of the Knox PR machine and the quiet grief of Meredith Kercher's parents. And why, if Americans are so concerned about miscarriages of justice, there was there no such outcry over Troy Davis? It's a good job Amanda Knox wasn't a poor black man convicted in Texas. Talk about double standards!

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 09:44 AM

The grief of Meredith Kercher's parents was indeed heartbreaking. But there seemed to me, perhaps wrongly but I think not, an element of disappointment that their revenge for their daughter's death had somehow been curtailed by the release of Ms Knox because a well-constituted appeal court had found her conviction unsafe; that they felt aggrieved that she should not continue to be locked up for more than a ¼C for a crime she might not have committed, as this made it harder for them to feel that their daughter's death had not been atoned ~ and hence that they would rather have seen her continue with what might have been an unjust punishment because that would in some way make them feel better ~~ or in any event less griefstruck ~~ about their bereavement. And all this even though the man Guele[?], who does seem, and has admitted to being, the guilty party, remains imprisoned. I am, as you will gather, most uncomfortable about the Kerchers' response.

I don't know it anyone else feels this.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 10:14 AM

I don't know if anyone else feels this.

Michael, I don't feel that, others may. The Kercher family have gracefully accepted the decision and expressed their respect for the Italian justice system. It was always thought from the start that Rudy Guede could not have acted alone and understandably they want to know exactly what happened to their daughter/sister and for anyone responsible to be brought to justice.

There were some clear indications initially (as well as doubts) that the right people had been convicted ~ maybe they feel, like the prosecutors, that there is still some doubt and whilst Raffaele Sollecito has kept a low profile and trusted to his lawyers to see that justice for him is done that has not been the case with Amanda Knox. It was a wicked thing she did initially accusing Patrick Diya Lumumba of the murder and her behaviour and the way the media latched onto it/her has been such that this case has SEEMED to be solely about her when in fact that is not/was not the case.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Lighter
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 10:25 AM

I feel quite as you do, MtheGM.

The Kirchers, however, are emotionally committed to what seemed at the time to have been the final chapter in the case, with all the "murderers" taken care of.

Their feelings if unreasonable, are nevertheless forgivable.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Lighter
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 10:38 AM

There's no legal basis for the claim that Troy Davis was wrongly convicted.

His conviction was upheld, over many years, by various appeals courts, and three times by the U.S. Supreme Court, which even delayed the execution at the last minute to be certain of the correctness of the lower courts' decision.

If the "miscarriage of justice" was the existence and imposition of the death penalty, that's another issue entirely.

Troy Davis has nothing to do with the case in Italy.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 10:45 AM

John Kercher said in the Daily Mirror today that the family are "shocked" and were wondering if anyone else would now be brought to justice. 

He told the Daily Mirror: "It is ludicrous. How can they ignore all the other evidence?
"I thought the judge might play it safe and uphold the conviction but reduce the sentence. But this result is crazy.
"There were 47 wounds on Meredith and two knives used. One person couldn't possibly have done that".

There is an additional question, Knox made a false accusation against Lumumba, in full awareness that he was working at the bar at the time. As a consequence, Lumumba lost his business and his life has been greatly affected.

I suppose that in the same way as Guede, Lumumba doesn't have the resources, social and financial, to pay for 'justice' - better lawyers, or someone who will take the time to investigate further. Had they been in the USA, the 'compensation culture' there, would have taken up their cases, and I would like to see what the result would be the be for Knox.

American overseas intervention 1. Justice 0. Same result, different country, but again, sadly expected.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 10:53 AM

"The Kercher family have gracefully accepted the decision and expressed their respect for the Italian justice system."···
.,.,.,.,
According to other reports, eanjay, they have professed themselves "shocked". ~~ But please believe I am not trying to start any sort of anti-Kercher feeling or anything of the sort; they have suffered terribly, and their feelings, as Lighter said, are forgivable. But I still cannot help feeling not altogether comfortable with their responses.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 10:59 AM

Michael, I saw an interview with them last night where that is what was said; clearly I have missed other things :)
Jean

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 11:02 AM

"If the "miscarriage of justice" was the existence and imposition of the death penalty, that's another issue entirely."

No, that was murder.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Lighter
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 11:46 AM

Their latest statement on CNN suggests that the Kerchers are satisfied that the acquittals resulted from a fair and thorough consideration of the case.

It may be that Knox incriminated Lumumba not out of wickedness, but because she'd been in a drug-induced haze at the time, was exhausted by interrogation, and knew only that an African was involved. Given the circumstances, there's no telling.

Just a guess, however.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 12:40 PM

It may be that Knox incriminated Lumumba not out of wickedness, but because she'd been in a drug-induced haze at the time, was exhausted by interrogation, and knew only that an African was involved.

I think you'll find she accused him before the lengthy interrogations and it was considered to be her revenge for him sacking her. At least he has successfully sued her so there is some justice.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Wesley S
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 01:07 PM

I'm sure it's just a detail to some but Troy Davis died in Georgia not Texas.

Subject: RE: Murder/Manslaughter-Amanda Knox acquitted(3-10-11)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Oct 11 - 02:53 PM

My issue with the whole thing is that all articles about this case should say Meredith's Murder solved, Meredith's Murder Unsolved Again, not anything about the killer (if she's guilty) or the poor wrongly accused person (if she's innocent). In neither case should the issue be about HER, but about the poor person she (or not she) murdered, ESPECIALLY if not, then what is the story with how whoever did it, did it? I feel bad for the Kerchers, and would wish the possibility of anonymity on the family of the wrongly accused.

If I were them I'd go home, move, and change my name. And if that made me look guilty after all, too bad, I (think I would feel that I) deserve not to be connected to someething I didn't do.