Brexit #2

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 09:27 AM

"Not sure whether Ians' figures include the Irish. "
Ireland doesn't count in these figures - the Treaty established a 'special relationship' between the U.K. and the Republic which has no effect whatever on what happens with Brexit
Britain would lose hands down any 'sending home' pissing competition - Any European looking for work in Borderless Europe has a far greater choice of work than British returnees forced to come home would have
Britain is in the pretty unique situation where it is now possible to be in work while, at the same time living in poverty - nice thing to be able to offer returning Brits

Over 14 million people, about one in five of the UK population are in poverty, according to the Joseph Rountree Foundation. Of them 8.2 million are working-age adults, 4.1 million are children and 1.9 million are pensioners. Eight million people live in poverty in families where at least one person is working.

"Ho Hum! More nonsense."
It is getting beyond a joke that this feller can continue to abuse and insult the way he does without being checked by the mods - at least two of his mates have had their arses kicked off this forum for lesser serious behaviour
I really thought they had scraped rock bottom last week with the thread they got closed - apparently not
How long Lord - how long!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 09:36 AM

Let's take Rolls Royce. It was on the radio this week that the team who get approval for engine designs is leaving GB for the EU because only teams based in the EU can approve engines for flying. Ironically, the Telegraph discussed plans to do this by referring to the iconic British brand, but guess who owns Rolls Royce? BMW. ANd before that Volkswagon owned it.

Oh, well if it was on the radio it must be true.
Do you honestly think that American businesses (or any other major manufacturing nation) have to get their engines approved in the EU?
It would seem you're only reporting part of the story, or misconstruing it.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 09:42 AM

Do you honestly think that American businesses (or any other major manufacturing nation) have to get their engines approved in the EU?

Yes. The EU nations will not allow the sale of goods that do not meet the standards set by the EU.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 09:50 AM

Ians' figures for EU citizens living in the UK do include Irish citizens. I checked on the BBC web site.

@ Nigel, read below an extract of what it said in the Business Section of the Telegraph some time ago. It seems that this week the decision was finally taken, which is how come BBC Radio 4 reported on it.


Rolls-Royce is preparing to relocate the “signing off” of British-made airliner engines to Europe, as the EU aviation authority will hold the right to certify they are safe to fly in the event of a hard Brexit.
The iconic British brand - and leading member of the country’s £31.8bn-a-year aerospace sector - is preparing the contingency plan to protect itself from huge disruption if negotiations stall over Britain leaving the EU.
Without such an arrangement, sources inside the company say that design, manufacturing and maintenance of Rolls-Royce engines built at its Derby base could grind to a halt if Britain suffers a “cliff-edge” departure from the EU.
The UK was a founder member of the European...

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 10:04 AM

From the De Vere Group

https://www.devere-group.com/news/Rolls-Royce-EU-relocation-Brexit.aspx

From Derbshire Live

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/business/rolls-royce-confirms-transfer-work-2319550

From Capital FM

https://www.capitalfm.com/eastmids/radio/news/local/rolls-royce-confirms-its-moving-some-work/

And nobody is claiming that the European Aviation Safety Authority is the only body internationally to set standards, the point is that unless/until we negotiate access/membership we have a problem.

@ Nigel;

"Do you honestly think that American businesses (or any other major manufacturing nation) have to get their engines approved in the EU?"

No mate. Did you honestly think that I did? Unfortunately, we cannot 'take back control' over aircraft engine design. We're governed by rules which we have to take.

https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Certification_of_Aircraft,_Design_and_Production

You knew all that when you made your post, of course.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 10:06 AM

"Ians' figures for EU citizens living in the UK do include Irish citizens."
Then they have no relevance here - apart from a hard Border, Brexit should not affect movement between Britain and Ireland in any way
THE EU have already confirmed this
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/irish-and-uk-citizens-common-travel-area-rights-protected-1.3337125
Jim

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 10:06 AM

"Ians' figures for EU citizens living in the UK do include Irish citizens."
Then they have no relevance here - apart from a hard Border, Brexit should not affect movement between Britain and Ireland in any way
THE EU have already confirmed this
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/irish-and-uk-citizens-common-travel-area-rights-protected-1.3337125
Jim

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 10:31 AM

"Ia(i)ns' figures for EU citizens living in the UK do include Irish citizens."
Then they have no relevance here"

All countries try to keep tabs on the number of foreigners within their borders. If such data was of no relevance why do you think money is wasted to collate such data?

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 10:54 AM

Britain would lose hands down any 'sending home' pissing competition - Any European looking for work in Borderless Europe has a far greater choice of work than British returnees forced to come home would have

Around 3.8 million people living in the UK in 2017 were citizens of another EU country. That's about 6% of the UK population. They obviously regard the UK as a land of milk and honey! Why else be here?

As usual, your argument does not compute!

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 11:15 AM

"Why else be here?"
Various reasons
Not the point
We are talking about who si likely to lose the most from closing borders
Europe has achieved a degree of stability - Britain never has; not if people can be working and living under the poverty line, it hasn't
Whatever exists in the form of trade will be most effected when free movement stops, both in cost and in movement of goods
Please do not act as if you have all the answers when in fact you have none
Your arrogance ceased to be amusing last week - it is now sickening
Only ignorant people are arrogant and those the most ignorant are the most arrogant
Nobody believes you as re as good as youi obviously do
Wonder if your position as an absentee landlords will be affected if the borders close
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 11:19 AM

I understand that free movement between the Irish Republic and the UK, exists irrespective of the EU. However, given that Irish insistence on the backstop seems to have been a bit of a pest, it might be time to reconsider both this and the dual passport stuff. Time for a proper clean break. Perhaps divest ourselves of the Northern Ireland too. It seems to cost us billions.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 11:41 AM

"It seems to cost us billions."
reland is Britain's Tiger by the tail
Ireland was an essential part of the British Empire - the oldest 'Jewel in the Crown
Despite centuries of opposition, it was held onto for both political and economic reasons - 'England's Breadbasket' and 'A safe pair of hands"
It's fight for independence and partial success sett the building blocks of Empire tumbling - statesmen like Gandhi and Nehru wrote of how they took heart from Easter week and the following War of independence
The unequally Protestant Six Counties State turned out to be a Frankenstein creation - recent events (the £1 billion bung) has shown how important politically The North still is to the British Establishment - especially to 'The Conservative and Unionist Party'

THe relationship should have been mutually beneficial, and would have been if Britain had opted for c-operation rather than the tanks and the Paras
'Gunboaat mentality still remains foremost in British policy - both abroad and at home
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 12:04 PM

I'd remind people that at present the term "EU citizens living in the UK" includes all British citizens. At present you all have the right to live and work in all 28 EU countries, together with EFTA countries. I hope you continue to have that right after March 29th because Brexit has been cancelled.

Otherwise the only people to still have that right will be us Irish citizens.

And you have Theresa May trumpeting proudly about taking that right away from you. It's no wonder that the people who are most going to be hit by this, young people, are 84% against Brexit according to recent polls. But of course, they never even had a chance to vote on this issue, and won't unless there's a fresh referendum - described as "a betrayal of democracy" by May.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 12:32 PM

"Perhaps divest ourselves of the Northern Ireland too. It seems to cost us billions."
Not so easy. It takes two to tango!
As per the good Friday agreement a referendum for reunification can only occur should the Secretary of State consider that at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland."

This of course assumes the Irish Republic should wish to accept such a potential liability and passes the required legislation to allow for a successful outcome.
"THe relationship should have been mutually beneficial, and would have been if Britain had opted for c-operation rather than the tanks and the Paras"

Well that has to be a unique interpretation for explaining the troubles. Realistically it will gain zero support from serious historians.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 01:52 PM

"Well that has to be a unique interpretation for explaining the troubles"
Nothing whatever unique in that statement - a recorded fact confirmed by the many millions of Irish people having lived in Britain built the roads railways, canals, tunnels for the last few centuries and settled peacefully without warfare or social unrest
Irish people have become part of Britain, whereas the British establishment have ruthlessly supposed the inequalities and oppression in the Six Counties and helped to turn Civil Rights protests into a major war
Britain is now busting a gut to ascertain that crimes committed by soldiers during the most recent troubles are not brought to account while at the same time demanding that Republican Crimes be tried
Britain did not, as usually claimed, go into Ireland to keep the peace but to support the Unionists
The affair of the paedophile assassin 'Stakeknife' has already hit the Irish papers - not sure if it's made it to Britain yet
Lot's more to come yet
This behavior is historical - despite British laws which demand of uncovering state papers after a set period, there is still no information available about the execution of the Easter Week Leaders and how tey were 'tried' - the actions that led to Britain losing Ireland
I'm sure you have an alternative picture of British/Irish relations, but I doubt if it ever gets beyond your usual "made up Little Jimmie rubbish"
Why you are here, apart from to preen and bully, it totally beyond me
It certainly isn't to pass on information or to gain any
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 01:57 PM

Europe has achieved a degree of stability - Britain never has.

That is a gem worthy of framing. Let us analyse it.
1) French riots in Paris and elsewhere
2)Recent riots in Brussells
3)Germany has had a series of protests in recent months
4)Italy protests about anti=migrant law
%)Spain. In October. Thousands of people flooded the streets of Barcelona on Friday for rival protests on Spain’s national day, highlighting the division in Catalonia over support for the Spanish state and those seeking independence.
6)Farmers in central Greece parked their tractors on the shoulder of the ... to escalate protests unless the government addresses their demands
7)Opposition in Hungary Demonstrates Against Orban, in Rare Display of Dissent

You are 'avin a laff!   more 'impeccable' research prior to posting

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 02:02 PM

The UK has negotiated an agreement to stay in the Common Transit Convention (CTC) even if there is no Brexit deal between the two sides

From Guido of course


https://order-order.com/2018/12/17/uk-eu-agree-maintain-common-transition-convention-even-no-deal/

Corbyn quote:"So, as the only way I can think of ensuring a vote takes place this week, I'm about to table a motion which says the following: 'That this House has no confidence in the Prime Minister due to her failure to allow the House of Commons to have a meaningful vote straight away on the Withdrawal Agreement and framework for future relationships between the UK and European Union.'

"That will be tabled immediately, Mr Speaker."

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 02:07 PM

Note: the above is a different beastie to tabling a vote of no confidence in the government.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 03:10 PM

"You are 'avin a laff!   more 'impeccable' research prior to posting"
No - it's you who is
Of your list three are protests against increasing hardship; one is the result of the brutality used by the Catalan protesters
Two are riots by fascists put back on the streets by the passing of Brexit and the election of Trump
The peaceful demonstration against anti immigration laws is a protest against anti-immigration, both practical and humanist in nature

I's you gave the quote applauding the democracy of allowing the people to raise their voice in protest (can't be arsed finding it) but you might have added J S Mill's 'shedding blood to replenish the Tree of Liberty"
What' the fuck's wrong with people taking to the streets to oppose Orban - the man's a fascist, and Hungary, of all countries knows what that implies
More power to their **** elbows - hope they find a good lamp post while they're at it
None of these events has in any way effected the stability of these countries, if anything, they have strengthened it
Would that Britons had the balls to take to the streets in their millions to stop the farce that is dooming British people to a generation of poverty and hardship instead of watching you and your friends circus antics which is making Britain a total laughing stock

I take it we're finished with Ireland - I was looking forward to the usual torrent of racist "bog-Irishisms" - you disapponit me
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 11:09 PM

THE FROGS were living as happy as could be in a marshy swamp that just suited them; they went splashing about caring for nobody and nobody troubling with them. But some of them thought that this was not right, that they should have a king and a proper constitution, so they determined to send up a petition to Jove to give them what they wanted. “Mighty Jove,” they cried, “send unto us a king that will rule over us and keep us in order.” Jove laughed at their croaking, and threw down into the swamp a huge Log, which came down—kerplash—into the swamp. The Frogs were frightened out of their lives by the commotion made in their midst, and all rushed to the bank to look at the horrible monster; but after a time, seeing that it did not move, one or two of the boldest of them ventured out towards the Log, and even dared to touch it; still it did not move. Then the greatest hero of the Frogs jumped upon the Log and commenced dancing up and down upon it, thereupon all the Frogs came and did the same; and for some time the Frygs went about their business every day without taking the slightest notice of their new King Log lying in their midst. But this did not suit them, so they sent another petition to Jove, and said to him, “We want a real king; one that will really rule over us.” Now this made Jove angry, so he sent among them a big Stork that soon set to work gobbling them all up. Then the Frogs repented when too late.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 04:12 AM

Is Jim a closet frog?

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 04:33 AM

Better a frog than a worm anyday
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 04:54 AM

Guido tells how it is. Cue "project fear" going into overdive!

https://order-order.com/2018/12/18/hancock-time-full-preparation-no-deal/

Good to see the worthless leader of the opposition shot his bolt yesterday. I wonder what he hopes to achieve by calling for a vote of no confidence in the PM. He has simply helped unify the Tories. Is he hoping to find a vote of no confidence in the government is in his christmas stocking? It now has even less chance of flying. clearly obvious that he gains his strategic insight from a career steeped in never never land rather than reality.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 04:55 AM

Dick missed off the Moral from the Aesop version of his fable and it is very pertinent to brexit.

Be sure you can better your condition before you seek to change.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 05:50 AM

"Dick missed off the Moral from the Aesop version of his fable and it is very pertinent to brexit.

Be sure you can better your condition before you seek to change."

That's a very big assumption you're making there, Dave - that the average BrexShitter has even heard of Æsop! Very unlikely...

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 07:11 AM

But they have heard of democracy, believe in it, know how to spell it and have integrity. How many remainiacs can claim the same, if any?

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 07:30 AM

There has been news about NHS planning for a no deal situation for months; inaccurate to suggest 'Guido' was the first to mention it, and frankly incredible that such planning should be dismissed as 'project fear'. More interesting to ponder the point that the earnings limit being proposed for EU immigrants may limit NHS ability to make up growing shortages in workforce. The problems of leavning Euratom have been widely discussed. I don't recall the pro Brexit campaign mentioning those.

Of more interest to anybody concerned for the future of our wonderful NHS is the announcement already made that the exdtra money promised for it won't won't heppen in a No Deal Scenario, the chances of Jeremy Hunt being PM in the future and the terms the USA may get through in any trade deal. Trade deals with the USA and their implications for the the NHS were one argument against the EU, though given the only options that seemed likely in th event of leave given a Tory government were and are no better, worse if anything.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 07:56 AM

"But they have heard of democracy, believe in it, know how to spell it and have integrity. How many remainiacs can claim the same, if any?"

The majority of BrexShitters, including you, may have "heard of Democracy, believe in it, know how to spell it" (even though 'our country' seems to defeat a significant number whose spittle-flecked rantings abound on social media platforms - 'traitor', 'arrested', 'marched out and shot', etc.), but they completely fail to understand its meaning.

'Democracy' provides for minds to be changed and for decisions to be amended or even (gasp!) reversed in the light of information which subsequently comes to light - a concept that seems to completely bamboozle the average BrexShitter (I don't include you in the 'average BrexShitter' group - you're not that bright).

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 08:04 AM

and frankly incredible that such planning should be dismissed as 'project fear
Exact Words: Guido tells how it is. Cue "project fear" going into overdive!

Operative word CUE: Meaning a thing said or done that serves as a signal to begin their performance.

I will explain it in simple terms:Health Secretary Matt Hancock told Newsnight last night that the NHS has gone to “full no deal planning” and added that there is a need for the “whole of government” to go to that position “because it’s the responsible thing to do”. This will cue/lead to/bring about all sorts of horror stories to scare the populace.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 08:19 AM

"remainiacs "
I still find it extremely amusing that someone who supports a policy that stands to impoverish Britain and is happily watching (even participating in) his party humiliating itself on a daily basis can still fling his mindless insults about as if he occupies some sort of high ground
Sort of like a bear of little brain who relied on a criminal blogger as a guru and is forced to retreat from subject as after subject when his arrogant claims fall apart before his eyes
'Bout time you got a new guru, or better still, began to think for yourself
In the present circumstances, you make yourself more stupid every time you post
You have proven over and over again that you are in no position to talk down to anybody - stop humiliating yourself
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 09:04 AM

But you don't believe in democracy, Iains. You'd like remainers to shut up and stop being inconvenient and you denigrate them at every turn. You think that 48% of voters are losers who should just get over themselves. You think that the 28% who didn't vote are feckless wasters who have given up their right to have a voice (though you're happy for them to keep paying their taxes, I presume). Democracy means running the country for everyone, not just the people on your side. I've just described your consistent stance over many posts over many months. Democrats are thoughtful, reflective people who take on board opposing views, not people who crow over their very narrow "victories." A country full of your kind of "democrats" would be a dangerous place.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 09:41 AM

Frankly, 2 billion seems relatively little to spend on preparations for Brexit - so we should be scared.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 09:42 AM

Just heard an Irish broadcaster taking the piss out of Britain by playing two recordings of Rees Mogg; first following May's winning the vote of no confidence, demanding that she resign, then, shortly after, congratulating her in the House of Commons for winning the support of her party

“O wad some Power the giftie gie us, to see oursels as ithers see us!" - springs to mind
These people are humiliating Britain of a daily basis
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 10:14 AM

Enjoy it while you can Jim.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 10:21 AM

Its nice to think ideally but all governments have their sticking points. I am used to a fake Democracy.

Will London streets look like Paris this coming March?

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 10:26 AM

From Bloomberg
EU Rules out 'Managed' No Deal.
The areas are:
Aviation: The EU will allow airliners from the U.K. to fly over the EU, land in the EU and fly back to the U.K, and make refueling stops in the EU.
Financial services: The EU would allow the U.K.’s derivatives clearinghouses to continue serving banks in the bloc -- under a so-called equivalence arrangement -- for 12 months after Brexit in the case of no deal.
Customs: The EU will levy duties and taxes on U.K. goods and is stepping up arrangements to carry out customs checks at entry points from the U.K.
Road transport: Permits will still be given to U.K. truck drivers but these would be far more restricted than is currently the case under EU membership.
Climate policy: EU climate change legislation won’t apply to the U.K. The Commission will take steps to ensure its emissions trading system isn’t affected.
Rights of citizens: The EU will say it is taking a “generous” approach to British citizens living in one of its 27 countries at the moment of Brexit and will enable them to obtain long-term residency status if they fulfill the necessary conditions.
Livestock and animal products: The EU hopes to allow the import of live animals and animal products from the U.K. as long as the country meets sanitary standards. Disruption will be expected, however, because new checks will have to take place on entry into the EU.
Personal data: If the U.K. leaves the EU with no deal, the country will be governed by the rules covering international transfers, which makes it far more difficult to exchange personal data.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 10:31 AM

Posted by a friend of mine on Facecloth (thanks Geoff)

BBC announced this morning that Theresa May has just allocated £2 BILLION pocket money to prepare for a no deal brexit.
That is over £38 Million a week.

I say we should give it to the NHS and scrap brexit.

Hashtag there's always a magic money tree

:D tG

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: KarenH
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 10:34 AM

NHS poor lookout, one part of plan is to reduce taxes. Cue US style get health insurance if healthy and young, die otherwise. Just what Jeremy *unt spoke up for when in charge of health.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 11:01 AM

It seems Gavin Williamson has told Mps that 3500 were ready to be deployed if needed by any government departments in the event of a no deal.

I wonder what they will be doing. Not just manual labour, I'll be bound.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 11:04 AM

... 3500 armed forces...

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 11:04 AM

"“O wad some Power the giftie gie us, to see oursels as ithers see us!" - springs to mind"

Be careful what you wish for! I am sure you would be highly disappointed if you knew how others view you. You gave yourself away very publicly on a recent thread.(and I have a copy of it)
From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 17 Dec 18 - 03:10 PM ................
The true story is below- from the telegraph,
I wonder who is correct, the anglophobic refugee or theTelegraph?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/12/17/street-protests-full-blown-riots-europe-raging/

Would that Britons had the balls to take to the streets in their millions

Easy for an exile to say that, hiding in a bog, while others are at risk from possible murder and mayhem. What kind of sorry assed person does that make you I ask myself? It rather confirms what I alluded to above.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 11:07 AM

"Will London streets look like Paris this coming March?"
Unfortunatel no - not without a sea-change

"Enjoy it while you can Jim."
I might do Karen if it wasn't for the fact that my relatives back home are amongst those paying for this fiasco

WOULD YOU LIKE YOUR DAUGHTER TO BRING HOME THIS MAN ?

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 11:47 AM

could it be flouride in the water that makes the english and irish so passive
Ireland

Near the end of 2015, Ireland was the only country in the European Union with a nationwide mandate for water fluoridation.[18][82][83]

The majority of drinking water is fluoridated. In 2012, roughly 3.25 million people received artificially-fluoridated water.[22] Almost 71% of the population in 2002 resided in fluoridated communities.[84] The fluoridation agent used is hydrofluorosilicic acid (HFSA; H2SiF6).[85] In a 2002 public survey, 45% of respondents expressed some concern about fluoridation.[86]

In 1957, the Department of Health established a Fluorine Consultative Council which recommended fluoridation at 1.0 ppm of public water supplies, then accessed by approximately 50% of the population.[87] This was felt to be a much cheaper way of improving the quality of children's teeth than employing more dentists.[88] This led to the Health (Fluoridation of Water Supplies) Act 1960, which mandated compulsory fluoridation by local authorities.[88][89] The statutory instruments made in 1962–65 under the 1960 Act were separate for each local authority, setting the level of fluoride in drinking water to 0.8–1.0 ppm.[90][91] The current regulations date from 2007, and set the level to 0.6–0.8 ppm, with a target value of 0.7 ppm.[92]

Implementation of fluoridation was held up by preliminary dental surveying and water testing,[93] and a court case, Ryan v. Attorney General.[94] In 1965, the Supreme Court rejected Gladys Ryan's claim that the Act violated the Constitution of Ireland's guarantee of the right to bodily integrity.[94][95] By 1965, Greater Dublin's water was fluoridated; by 1973, other urban centers were too.[96] Studies from the late 1970s to mid 1990s showed a decrease in (and lower incidence of) dental decay in school children living in areas where water was fluoridated than in areas where water was not fluoridated.[97]

A private member's bill to end fluoridation was defeated in the Dáil on 12 November 2013.[98][99] It was supported by Sinn Féin and some of the technical group and opposed by the Fine Gael-Labour government and Fianna Fáil.[99][100][101]

Recently there is much local opposition to the national fluoridation mandate. Early in 2014, Cork County Council and Laois County Council passed motions for the cessation of water fluoridation. In Autumn 2014, Cork City Council, Dublin City Council,[82][83] and Kerry County Council passed similar motions.[82]
LUnited Kingdom

Around 10% of the population of the United Kingdom receives fluoridated water.[106] About half a million people receive water that is naturally fluoridated with calcium fluoride, and about 6 million total receive fluoridated water.[113] The Water Act 2003 required water suppliers to comply with requests from local health authorities to fluoridate their water.[113]

The following UK water utility companies fluoridate their supply:

    Anglian Water Services Ltd
    Northumbrian Water Ltd
    South Staffordshire Water plc
    Severn Trent plc
    United Utilities Water plc

Earlier plans were undertaken in the Health Authority areas of Bedfordshire, Hertfordshire, Birmingham, Black Country, Cheshire, Merseyside, County Durham, Tees Valley, Cumbria, Lancashire, North, East Yorkshire, Northern Lincolnshire, Northumberland, Tyne and Wear, Shropshire, Staffordshire, Trent and West Midlands South whereby fluoridation was introduced progressively in the years between 1964 and 1988.[114]

The South Central Strategic Health Authority carried out the first public consultation under the Water Act 2003, and in 2009 its board voted to fluoridate water supplies in the Southampton area to address the high incidence of tooth decay in children there.[113] Surveys had found that the majority of surveyed Southampton residents opposed the plan, but the Southampton City Primary Care Trust decided that "public vote could not be the deciding factor and that medical evidence shows fluoridation will reduce tooth decay – and failed to back up claims of serious negative side effects".[115] Fluoridation plans have been particularly controversial in the northwest of England and have been delayed after a large increase on projected costs was revealed.[116] In October 2014, Public Health England abandoned plans for water fluoridation for 195,000 people in Southampton and neighbouring parts of south-west Hampshire due to opposition from both Hampshire County Council and Southampton City Council.[117]

It was reported in 2007 that the UK Milk Fluoridation Programme, centered in the northwest of England, involved more than 16,000 children.[118]

The water supply in Northern Ireland has never been artificially fluoridated except in two small localities where fluoride was added to the water for about 30 years. By 1999, fluoridation ceased in those two areas, as well.[citation needed]

In 2004, following a public consultation, Scotland's parliament rejected proposals to fluoridate public drinking water.[59]

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 12:22 PM

"WOULD YOU LIKE YOUR DAUGHTER TO BRING HOME THIS MAN ?"

An article from CQ magazine:(B)GQ is an international monthly men's magazine based in New York City and founded in 1931. The publication focuses on fashion, style, and culture for men, though articles on food, movies, fitness, sex, music, travel, sports, technology, and books are also featured.(/B)
Yeah just the place to find a reasoned article on the mighty Rees Mogg.I cannot see any heading he would fit into!
His intellect is streets ahead of Corbyn, I have yet to see the beeb beat him in an interview, or parliamentarians beat him in debating skills.
The link was about the level to be expected from the contributor. A link to a comic!

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 12:22 PM

3500 nowhere near enough, their own advisors say that 3500 are only enough to secure London.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 02:03 PM

I was remiss in referring to 3500 armed forces. What was identified was "3500 service personnel." You know, cooks, filing clerks, medics, HR staff, radio operators....

Any suggestion weaponry might be involved is an assumption ....

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 02:51 PM

"His intellect is streets ahead of Corbyn,"
Another hidden talent he's kept hidden undet his ridiculous top hat}Moggy is living proof that education has nothing to do with intelligence
The fact that he can demand May's resignation in one breath and congratulate her for uniting the Tory party with the other - a hypocrite and an idiot

You haven't seen him beaten in debate - the 'Have I Got News For You team made him look the arse-hole he is with no effort whatever
For Christs sake, he's a bigger caricature than your lover, Guido
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 03:22 PM

You haven't seen him beaten in debate - the 'Have I Got News For You team made him look the arse-hole he is with no effort whatever

Another stunning example of a non sequitur! You have a rare skill in constructing them. But. Do they really aid your argument or just make you look ..........?

Breaking news:
BELGIUM CHAOS: Prime Minister RESIGNS as UN migrant pact crisis ERUPTS

BELGIUM’S Prime Minister Charles Michel has quit after losing a vote of no confidence, Belgian media reports.

Another politician that does not know how to listen!

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 18 Dec 18 - 04:28 PM

Michel is a soft right politician who went into coalition with a far right party who then decided he wasn't far enough right and walked out. Sound familiar? But it is the socialists and the Greens who have brought him down, and maybe they can profit from his demise. All in all, the future of Belgium looks brighter than ours.

Subject: RE: Brexit #2
From: Iains
Date: 19 Dec 18 - 04:53 AM

"All in all, the future of Belgium looks brighter than ours."

Well I hope you are right but the runes say otherwise. EU citizens are getting fed up, as has been amply demonstrated over the last weeks.

https://www.socialeurope.eu/social-democrats-must-say-another-globalisation-is-possible


https://www.wibc.com/blogs/tony-katz/morning-news/riots-france-reveal-greater-truth-about-governments-and-ideologues

And of course fettering disparate economies within a single currency was doomed from the outset. The great north south divide in europe is far greater than that in the uk. Yet the great game of eunacy continues, oblivious to all reality. When the next major economic contraction occurs even more will be on the streets. It will be game over when troops are deployed as well.