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BS: Your Career, Dead
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Subject: BS: Your Career, Dead From: wysiwyg Date: 19 May 07 - 09:39 AM I can't believe the naivete of the current news coverage about the lady who wanted to be a schoolteacher whose dreams are all up in smoke because of what she posted about herself on MySpace. Wasn't it just yesterday that we all knew that what's posted on the internet can come back to bite you in the butt?!?!?!?!? Now it's covered as an issue of "fairness." I don't think so! ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: skipy Date: 19 May 07 - 09:55 AM Depends what she posted! Skipy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 19 May 07 - 10:03 AM ... and just what resolution the pictures were... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: katlaughing Date: 19 May 07 - 10:16 AM For those of us who don't have a clue what your are talking about it: Teacher in training Stacy Snyder was denied her education degree on the eve of graduation when Millersville University apparently found pictures on her MySpace page "promoting underage drinking." As a result, the 27-year-old mother of two had her teaching certificate withheld and was granted an English degree instead. In response, Snyder has filed a Federal lawsuit against the Pennsylvania university asking for her education diploma and certificate along with $75,000 in damages. So what, you're probably asking yourself, could have been in this picture that was so abhorrent as to make Stacy Snyder unworthy of teaching children? Was she force-feeding a 6-year-old bourbon from a bottle or spiking a middle school dance's punch? Not even close. The picture in question turned out to be of her at a Halloween party in 2005 dressed as a pirate and drinking an indeterminate liquid "from a plastic 'Mr. Goodbar' cup." But underneath was a caption which read "Drunken Pirate" and that caption apparently lead faculty to assume she was too "unprofessional" to educate young minds. Word was sent to the Millersville administration, and Snyder's "lifelong dream" of being a teacher ended less than a day before being achieved. Now, clearly schools take underage drinking seriously. Their primary objective, after all, is the education and well-being of the students in their care, and as such they do whatever they see fit to achieve it. However, it seems unclear how keeping her out of the classroom because of an ambiguous photograph helps in that mission. Are public schools really attempting to keep students under the illusion that no members of their faculty have ever been under the influence of alcohol? If so would, say, a MySpace page of wedding photos with a faculty member making a toast, be grounds for termination? Obviously this is an extreme example and there are limits and lines that must be drawn between acceptable and unacceptable, but it is difficult to imagine how Ms. Snyder's "Drunken Pirate" would fall on the inappropriate side. Given the shortage of teachers in America and the difficulty in recruiting quality applicants to the profession, it seems like the school may have compromised its primary objective for the sake of unrealistic zero-tolerance principals. By Emil Steiner | May 1, 2007; 12:10 PM ET | Category: OFF/beat Politics Have to say, if the above is accurate, I agree with the writer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: mack/misophist Date: 19 May 07 - 10:17 AM She posted a picture of herself at a costume party, drinking out of a paper cup. It was labeled 'drunken pirate'. Her college used this as an excuse to with-hold her teaching certificate. She was of legal age at the time the picture was taken. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 19 May 07 - 10:24 AM how could the picture as described "promote underage drinking"? I wonder what a lawyer would say to that reason for denying her the certificate she earned. Looks like the school authorities chose their words carelessly. good luck to her. sandra |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: katlaughing Date: 19 May 07 - 10:47 AM HERE'S the terrible picture. Ridiculous! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: Rapparee Date: 19 May 07 - 10:48 AM Someone, as Tennyson said, had blundered. I don't think that she'll have to teach or do anything much for the rest of her life. The only question, as my wife the lawyer says, is "How many zeroes on the check?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 19 May 07 - 10:58 AM Obviously she has now 2 degrees - the one she worked for and the one they gave her gratis - unasked... :-) Hey if they can give out Honorary Doctorates free - they can give out any other degrees they want too! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: Alice Date: 19 May 07 - 10:58 AM I hope she wins. That was a total over reaction. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 19 May 07 - 10:59 AM the only thing 'wrong' with that pic is the red eye, & that's literally a technicality. The rest of the face looks like a normal everyday face, with nary a sign of drunkenness. I hope she gets lots of zeros in her payment. sandra |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: Metchosin Date: 19 May 07 - 11:03 AM I thought Prohibition had ended in the US....or perhaps the University is the exclusive supplier of teachers to Saudi Arabia.....nah, she'd be wearing a veil....wouldn't she? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 19 May 07 - 11:06 AM Not long ago I heard some religious nutter complaining that evil people were trying to turn America into "a secular society" - I thought that's what the US Constitution did... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: Peace Date: 19 May 07 - 02:13 PM She will win the lawsuit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: Don Firth Date: 19 May 07 - 02:29 PM How do they know it wasn't coffee in the cup she was drinking from? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: RangerSteve Date: 19 May 07 - 02:35 PM It's a Mr. Goodbar cup. She's promoting eating, and possibly, overindulging in chocolate, which leads to obesity in children. OH MY GOD, INNOCENT CHILDREN WILL SEE THE PICTURE AND THINK IT'S OK TO BE FAT AND DRUNK. STRING HER UP. Better yet, string up the people running that dimwit college. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: kendall Date: 19 May 07 - 02:45 PM I had a teacher who came to school reeking of booze. He was one of the best teachers I ever had. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: wysiwyg Date: 19 May 07 - 02:48 PM In getting an MDiv, one can only attend seminary to get the MDiv with continuing Bishop's approval for the three years that degree involves. That approval process is long and arduous from the start and continues until authorization to be ordained, because it's necessary in order to receive episcopal endorsement to preach, teach, and practice the faith on real live people. This has always been the case in hierarchical religious careers, and is even more the case nowadays with rampant sex abuse scandals, risk management professionsals, malpractice insurance, etc. For example, a background check is now part of the process early on, as are psych evals (at least in our denomination). If a teaching certificate is governed by similar requirements, there's the issue. The teacher candidate may have indeed earned an academic degree, but what was expected for a teaching certificate? Take a look at it from the view of a parent whose child has been caught up in a scandal involving their teacher, a teacher whose certificate has led to tenure and who cannot be removed from the faculty without a lengthy and messy process. Say you are the parent of such a child, and you find that a certificate to teach was given a few years back to that person, even though the grantors of the cert knew that there was a clear public record of her unsuitablity to work with very young children (which may have included more than the MySpace item and may have been investigated more fully, appropriately, and factually). Don't tell me that we here at Mudcat wouldn't be set to howling over how could she have "slipped through the cracks" for so long! My son fell into such a situation. My office in the school system just happened to be next door to the classroom in which he spent most of each day. I could HEAR his teacher's abusive approach verbally. Her targets were always little boys (and often, BTW, African-American little boys). I could hear her shrill voice raised to tell them they were stupid. One day she dragged my son bodily into my office in mid-rant to tell me how awful he was, shoving and scraping him in through the partly-opened door! Although the principal was a friend and colleague, and he believed my account, there was very little he could do to affect her tenure unless he saw these things himself. Now, he'd inherited her from his predecessor and the stories about her were common knowledge among parents and faculty. Kids would be moved out of her room if they could not tolerate the abuse. The story offered was that she just had been teaching for far too long and wouldn't resign till she qualified for retirement benefits. Maybe she should never have been teaching, at all. A, I think we don't know all there is to know about this individual case. B, I think it's naive to think our online lives will not and should not play a part in our careers. C, Get real! ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: Jeri Date: 19 May 07 - 03:40 PM It's naive to think nobody will notice the stuff about us on the Internet. I also think it would take a pretty sick, paranoid mind to think THAT picture, with or without a caption, might foil one's aspirations of becoming a teacher. I have lots of pictures of people drinking things. I have some photos of people drunk. I even have some embarrassing photos of a sober people. I wouldn't think any one of them are bad enough to keep a person from teaching. From The Chronicle of Higher Education: Although Ms. Snyder was of legal drinking age when the photo was taken, Millersville administrators deemed the image "unprofessional," and they refused to award her an education degree and the teaching certificate that came along with it. (Instead they issued her a degree in English.)A picture of a person drinking at an adult party, even -gasp- alcohol, 'UNPROFESSIONAL'?! Anybody here even think a college student at a party should have to worry that a picture of them doing nothing more than drinking out of a cup would lose them their future career because it didn't look professional? She DID have a pirate hat on, but she wasn't dancing around naked with a lampshade on her head. I'd be willing to bet that pictures of the college administrators apparently drinking an unseen substance could be found. (Probably without pirate hats though.) I also think she'll win the case, and I wouldn't rule out the possibility of another college issuing her the certificate out of an abhorence of close-minded unjust, control freakiness. (You should see some of MY college pictures, and I STILL got a security clearance!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: gnu Date: 19 May 07 - 03:41 PM "A, I think we don't know all there is to know about this individual case." So??? String her up based on conjecture that there is "more"??? Sorry, Susan... I guess I just don't get your point here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: Peace Date: 19 May 07 - 03:48 PM "A picture of a person drinking at an adult party" If that's all it takes, then there's the reason to impeach Bush. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: wysiwyg Date: 19 May 07 - 04:08 PM First, my point is that this is a thread that was started about how the internet can affect our careers, not just about the case currently being ballyhoo'ed. Of course I don't think the particular photo should be sole cause for denying a degree... But there is a difference between a degree and a certificate to teach, and I'm curous what's actually underneath the actions the college took. Of course there's more to it-- nothing in life is as simple as the news stories about this case make it out to be. So I'd like to know more, and I think it's naive to think that what you post online can't affect your career. (This is just the latest story about THAT.) I also think Mudcat has a healthy but sometimes overzealous orientation toward individual rights, an orientation that can obscure the bigger picture. If people are innocent until proven guilty-- like the teacher who has gotten all the press on this one so far-- then isn't the school innocent until proven guilty, too? Not at Mudcat. We want to uphold RIGHTS here, as the independent-minded folkies we are, so we're always far more likely to come down on the side of the poor little wronged ed student vs. The Big Bad Institution. With no information other than her allegations, so far Mudcat's willing to convict the school in advance of the lawsuit. But I promise you, no school's chancellor woulkd allow them to put the whole college's finanical future at risk with an unfounded denial of a degree. They may not be in a position to tell us all, so I am sure blogs everywhere are out for blood. I'm gonna take the crazy position of actually waiting to see what happens with the lawsuit, thanks. And I promise you, when it's a kid who's victimized by an unfit teacher, the ship will tilt the other way-- with just as little information as we have about this case. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: Jeri Date: 19 May 07 - 04:12 PM I think there's likely something going on beneath the surface as well, as if they were just looking for the slimmest excuse to not grant her the certificate. The problem is that it's the slim excuse that has to stand in court, not the vague under-surface whatevers. She might be a complete loon, but at the moment, she's coming off as the 'good guy'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: GUEST,dianavan Date: 19 May 07 - 06:00 PM This is insane! We drink after school (in the staff room) on St. Patrick's Day and at the end of the year as well. I doubt if its legal but who would bother to make an issue of it? There is no law against alcoholic consumption at a party and nobody (including the college) has a right to deny her a teaching degree based on on an internet photo of the teacher. Even if she were an alcoholic, a picture on the internet proves nothing. She is doing nothing illegal. Susan - If you have issues about a teacher and the principal doesn't support you, you have two choices: 1)Contact the teachers professional body and lodge a complaint 2) Move. 3) My guess is that you stayed, made a nuisance of yourself and embarrassed your child. Were the problems resolved? To hammer this teacher (the drunken pirate) with a personal issue you have had in the past makes no sense. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 May 07 - 07:35 PM Don't you guys have trades unions any more? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: heric Date: 19 May 07 - 08:00 PM Not for students. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: Sorcha Date: 19 May 07 - 08:09 PM Hey, our kids school had a teacher who kept his flask in the bottom of his desk drawer. He taught more drunk than he did sober. Retired, finally, with tenure of course. There was also the teacher at the same school who'd give the girls all A's if they wore revealing clothes. Our daughter refused and got D's when she actually deserved B's. It would have done no good to complain, the Admin already knew about it. Only took his wife 25 years to divorce him. There was also the wrestling coach who patted front bottoms instead of back bottoms. Our son experienced that just once...said, if you do that again, I'll deck you. Coach never did. Small towns. Nothing much ever 'happens' there, but what you hear makes up for it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: skipy Date: 19 May 07 - 08:15 PM No, she must not teach, she is evil, she likes a drink, she joins in, she dresses up and takes part, she could well become part of a team! She must be evil! Good luck to her. Skipy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 19 May 07 - 09:41 PM Read "North Star" (current best seller)
This woman had more than her knickers twisted into a knot.
Sincerely,
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: wysiwyg Date: 19 May 07 - 10:46 PM oops, corrected post: Susan - If you have issues about a teacher and the principal doesn't support you, you have two choices: 1)Contact the teachers professional body and lodge a complaint 2) Move. 3) My guess is that you stayed, made a nuisance of yourself and embarrassed your child. Were the problems resolved? LOL-- yes, they were. Since you "asked"-- In my job, I reported directly to the district superintendent and the principal was a good friend-- I had credibility. When this teacher pulled this, I raised my eyebrows from behind my desk, asked her to let go of my child, and thanked her for her report. She left my office (and my son) to go back to her classroom. From then on, I simply used my telephone: I dialed down from my office, to the principal's, when there were goings-on he should hear, and he came right up to hear and see for himself. She retired that summer. THAT was between THEM. I never bothered mentioning it to my boss. The next year I was given a much larger office down the hall when a classroom became vacant. I only needed half of it, so I moved a large, comfy couch and a folding table in, and decorated it in bright but restful colors. It was across from the formal teachers' lounge.... but I had better coffee, an intentionally encouraging attitude about their inherent power as teachers, and a listening ear. And so my office became the de facto faculty and staff lounge as well as a place to bring behavior-disordered kids who needed the occasional kindly break from their classroom, also across the hall. These teachers made sure to let me know, tactfully, that they appreciated how I had handled the "Doris" situation the year before. (Of course they also appreciated the jobs my referendum-passing work had helped them retain the year before I went on the supt.'s staff; about 1/3 of the faculty were scheduled to be cut until that referendum unexpectedly passed.) Later that year, I quietly mediated a staff revolt/principal's demands over new curricula being introduced along with a prematurely-"required" whole new teaching method the faculty had not yet gotten confident about trying. It kept that good faculty and that good principal out of the disciplinary tracks they were pushing one another towards, and allowed for a better working realtionship between them such that the principal became the district's new director of personnel and contract negotiator the following year instead of losing his job. He served effectively in that role for quite a long time. Since you asked. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: Big Al Whittle Date: 19 May 07 - 11:32 PM college is doing her a favour....awful job! Most of my teacher friends simply forbid their children to even consider it as a choice of profession. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: GUEST,dianavan Date: 20 May 07 - 05:00 AM Susan - That story is a little different from your post of 19 May 07 - 02:48 PM, "Although the principal was a friend and colleague, and he believed my account, there was very little he could do to affect her tenure unless he saw these things himself. Now, he'd inherited her from his predecessor and the stories about her were common knowledge among parents and faculty. Kids would be moved out of her room if they could not tolerate the abuse. The story offered was that she just had been teaching for far too long and wouldn't resign till she qualified for retirement benefits." Regardless, it has nothing to do with the student who has been denied her teaching certificate for a perfectly innocent photo on the internet. Like I said before, your experience has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. It doesn't even correlate, let alone prove cause. Yes, there are plenty of teachers who should never have chosen to teach but this is not the case with this young woman. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: JohnInKansas Date: 20 May 07 - 05:32 AM Re the original question: Millersville University A quick look does not indicate this is a "university for nut-cases." I didn't immediately find what they say about requirements for a teaching certificate, but in most states there are fairly specific regulations regarding the issuance of such certificates. It does appear to be a member of the Pennsylvania State School System, and not a private college that might be more inclined to impose unusual "moral criteria." Millersville University Statement on Ms. Stacy Snyder Lawsuit - - - is typically non-committal. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: wysiwyg Date: 20 May 07 - 09:05 AM ... your experience has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. It doesn't even correlate, let alone prove cause.... Well, since I started the thread, I think my whole life experience has to do with the topic of it. It doesn't have much to do with your attemtp to HIJACK the thread into a personal attack on me, that's true.... but you did ask what happened in the situation I used as an example about the ways we look at issues, so I indulged you with a little slice of the reality of my experience. Remember, YOU ASKED. And "prove cause"? I don't have that role, or that interest in the individual situation. A lot of folks are limiting their responses to their feelings about the individual situation they have been hearing about in this thread and in the news. I invite a broader discussion-- if people don't care to have it, of course that's up to them. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: wysiwyg Date: 20 May 07 - 10:57 AM Here's the skinny on how the school can evaluate this teacher candidate. In the certification process, the applicant must submit many itmes to their file. One is "COLLEGE/UNIVERSITY VERIFICATION FORM PDE 338 C (HTML) or FORM PDE 338 C (PDF) Completion of Approved Education Program For Use by Applicants Prepared by PA Colleges/Universities." How important is that form? See the fine print: PRINCIPAL PURPOSE(S): To be used for registration and maintenance of records of all certificated persons as having met qualifications for teaching. ROUTINE USES: Used by the Pennsylvania Department of Education for the (1) evaluation, registration, and maintenance of certification records, (2) identification and collection of criminal/disciplinary records for certified educators and candidates for certification, and (3) provision of certification data to authorized personnel and agencies. DISCLOSURE: Mandatory. Withholding requested SSAN will result in denial of a candidate's application for certification. In other words-- no form, no cert. This is parallel to requirement toward ordination in our denomination, BTW, as I indicated above might well be the case. And what's on that form that supports the school's action? This: PART B: PREPARING COLLEGE/UNIVERSITY RECOMMENDATION The endorsing signature of designated certification officer confirms that the candidate is known and regarded by the preparing institution as a person of good moral character and possesses those personal qualities and professional knowledge and skill which warrant issuance of the requested certificate. Bingo. "... AND possesses those personal qualities...." Remember that for professionals, admittance to the profession is a privilege, not a right. When you go to teacher school, you should know that this is going to be part of your reality as a teaching professional. Just like ordination-wannabe's-- Surprise!! You are going to be looked at and looked at, and you are going to find that your profession will have limitations placed upon you for the protection of the people who will be in your care, that apply to you in ways you may not like and that are not in place to safeguard fairness toward you, because it's not all about you but about your fitness to serve in the capacity to which you aspire, alongside others who have submitted themselves to those standards. It's not just about the hard work you did to earn the academic degree-- it's also going to be about whether you belong in the profession. The lawyers and judges who will now get involved in this lady's case have all had to meet similarly stringent requirements to be admitted to practice in their professions. This is simply the reality of professional life. MySpace doesn't really count towards a positive evaluation in professional life. Don't like fine print? It's what can keep your kids safe from unfit teaching candidates, clergy, and doctors. It's what keeps you safe from incompetent counsel and counselors. Human beans tend to like fine print when we are looking for a way to protect ourselves, but not so much when it's protecting others from us. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: artbrooks Date: 20 May 07 - 11:03 AM Thank you, Susan. I suspected that there was a clause like that somewhere in the process, but I appreciate your bringing it to the surface. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: Ron Davies Date: 20 May 07 - 11:17 AM So fine print can be exploited. This is a revelation? Remember, Susan, this case is supposedly based on encouraging underage drinking. Still waiting for any proof that this teacher did that. Do you feel that all teachers must be teetotalers in their private lives? As has been pointed out, it's already not that easy to attract and keep good teachers. This case, and any requirement like the above, will not help. Sure sounds like another school bureaucracy gone wild (soon to be a titillating TV series?) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: artbrooks Date: 20 May 07 - 11:39 AM The connection to underage drinking is fairly simple, if one has that kind of mind: Teacher drinks->teacher is supposed to be a role model->teacher's drinking encourages students to drink |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: Ron Davies Date: 20 May 07 - 11:43 AM Bureaucracy gone wild. QED. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: Peace Date: 20 May 07 - 12:13 PM Then take the kids away from their parents. They learn about underaged drinking at home. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: wysiwyg Date: 20 May 07 - 12:14 PM Do you feel that all teachers must be teetotalers in their private lives? Life is a little more complicated than that. (Do I think members of Congress should never email with teenagers on private time?) Let me respond in terms of a situation in which I did play a role. At a conference that was, in part, a screening for admittance into the beginning of the ordination process, a potential candidate for the priesthood asked me if her Prozac would knock her out of the process. Her question demonstrated, right off, good judgement by asking about this, somewhat privately as an aside during a break, but not secretly. She asked me how to handle the situation-- not how to evade it, and not to keep her question secret. As one of the co-teachers of the class that had led to that workshop, I answered that while I could not speak for the governing body that would evaluate her, my best sense was that what would knock her out would not be the Prozac, but negelecting to volunteer the information that she had been prescribed it after the very difficult death of her dad. She did volunteer it with that commission as well as in her psych eval which she 'passed.' The question looked at by the governing commission concerned was, "How did that time support your spiritual life and your healing from the grief of your loss? And what would you say to a parishioner who asked you about it?" She was prepared to discuss that, and not looking for ways to hide either the Prozac or her inner experience. You see, what mattered was not the Prozac per se, but what is called in church circles 'the candidate's availability to the process' and her 'transparency.' The commission involved, of course, was only able to take that view because it is, essentially, a healthy one with positive dynamics. The balance of the process for that candidate to the priesthood has unfolded quite positively, and I look forward to attending her ordination next year with her class. Perfection is not required. Being realistic, however, is highly recommended. As I've steered by, "Bosses [in your profession] don't like surprises." Another example. "Will it be a problem that I was married 4 times?" "Probably not, but it will for SURE be a problem that you have already trumpeted your "life experience" as a lawyer without disclosing that you left the profession for some other profession when you were disbarred, and that your examining committee has been waiting to see whether you volunteer that. And it will be a problem that you assured your committee that you were ready for ministry and had moved on from your two previous marriages... when the courthouse records and the community's memory of you is that you lied last week on your marriage license application for your FIFTH marriage, that your new husband doesn't know about your marital record, and that your marriages and career failures have involved your very-public alcoholic meltdowns. And it will be a problem that your recovery process is not yet far enough along that you are able to use that recovery experience in your ministry to others struggling with addiction, because you are still covering yours up." So do I think teachers have to be teetotal? Of course not. I do think they need to be aware of how skittish the profession becomes every time a pretty young teacher shows up on CNN as a party animal as the background to her studnet-sex-abuse charges, and be smart enough especially in these times to keep a drinking party off one's own MySpace page. They say some women have paid their way through law school via a lucrative stint as an exotic dancer. More power to them-- but do you think it's a good idea to put it in their resumes? ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: jeffp Date: 20 May 07 - 12:36 PM I have a friend who performed for years at Renaissance Festivals as the "Merrie Minstrel," who sang about drinking and lasciviousness in all forms and was renowned for his on-the-spot making up of verses in response to audience ideas. In real life, he was, and still is, a middle school English teacher. He had to retire from performing a couple of years ago. Why? He no longer had time as his responsibilites at the school had increased substantially. I personally know several public school teachers who frequent the Ren Fest and have no qualms about drinking and partaking in bawdy entertainment. Withholding a certificate over that picture is absolutely ridiculous. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 May 07 - 12:46 PM Don't you guys have trades unions any more? Not for students. That really true? Strange country indeed! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: wysiwyg Date: 20 May 07 - 02:29 PM I personally know several public school teachers who frequent the Ren Fest and have no qualms about drinking and partaking in bawdy entertainment. Bet they have tenure all sewed up, too. They've paid their dues. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: Richard Bridge Date: 20 May 07 - 02:37 PM Absolutely barking mad. And wholly consistent with the way America elects its politicians. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: artbrooks Date: 20 May 07 - 02:42 PM And this has exactly what to do with politicians? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: Peace Date: 20 May 07 - 02:56 PM About as much as it has to do with teachers. It is a thread about one teacher. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: katlaughing Date: 20 May 07 - 03:28 PM Where is the proof, judging from the picture, that she was drinking anything alcoholic? Why would seeing that picture send a wrong message to children? For crissakes, my English teacher in high school had us all over for green beer on St. Patrick's Day; her son was a year ahead of me. They were of "fine, moral character" and upstanding, well-respected citizens. She only let us have a few sips and our parents knew in advance. This is ridiculous judging from what has been available. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: heric Date: 20 May 07 - 04:40 PM We're talking about one person who wants to be a teacher - even while advocating rape, pillage, and other debauched practices such as keel-hauling. She might likely support slavery. She probably has syphilis. And you're all okay with that? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your Career, Dead From: Peace Date: 20 May 07 - 04:42 PM What's the problem? Sounds lots like Ann Coulter to me. |
