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Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far?
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: Richard Bridge Date: 15 Jun 07 - 12:38 PM Property in the washed up items passes to insurers upon payment out. Insurers then either abandon them them there, or collect them and put them in landfill. Better to do something useful with them, surely. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: ShockedandAppalledinReading Date: 15 Jun 07 - 12:37 PM Oh I read everything...and I am familiar with the events that took place at Appleby. I say events because as has already been noted a man was injured, quite badly, at this same fair... |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: The Borchester Echo Date: 15 Jun 07 - 12:24 PM Shocked & Appalled The West Country reference was to wreckers, not a horse fair. It would be useful if casual visitors would actually read the thread before leaping in. The thread title is about an incident at one specific horse fair, not such events in general. Though were madlizzie to kick off against Travellers en masse (and not just at Appleby where, I'm prepared to hazard a guess, she's never been), may she come under equally stringent criticism for socially divisive and inaccurate shit-stirring. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: ShockedandAppalledinReading Date: 15 Jun 07 - 12:11 PM ooops...that should be "are NOT indigenous" |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: ShockedandAppalledinReading Date: 15 Jun 07 - 12:09 PM First of all horse fairs are indigenous to one area, in this case Appleby, even London still has one, and look, by gosh...The West Country of England has one too.. For further details please consult Horse Fairs ShockedandAppalledbutnotParochialinReading *LOL* |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: Blowzabella Date: 15 Jun 07 - 12:00 PM Greg - that is my point entirely - so many things have been lost and I would hate to lose Appleby - but there is a real danger that it could go, if some loose cannons go rattling round and hitting the headlines. I agree - don't want it to be sanitised - I've probably been closer to the dealers and travellers who go than most, who are participating on this thread. I want it to be real - earthy - I don't care if there's a bit of bare-knuckle fighting goes on back at the campsite - that is up to them. Dog fighting / cockfighting and ruining horses by running them up and down all day until they are of no use to anyone and are just abandonedoutside a pub is another thing. (I thought the riding the horse into the pub quite funny - but could have been nasty if it had panicked). (I had an aunty who was cruelly scarred when a horse in a field was spooked - it jumped out of its field and landed on the soft top of her car! It proceeded to thrash about and did both itself and her considerable damage - so I'm also pretty familiar with what sharp hooves can do to human flesh in a confined space) |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: The Borchester Echo Date: 15 Jun 07 - 11:56 AM "Shocked and Appalled" thinks where someone lives (actually where they come from) has no bearing. The poster in question is not a resident of the Eden Valley nor a native of the West Country. These would seem a rather good grounds to remain circumspect about spouting uninformed nonsense concerning customs and culture indigenous to those regions, and to leave observations to those qualified by residence, ethnicity or by academic qualification. This, of course, is precisely what she never does. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too From: nutty Date: 15 Jun 07 - 11:54 AM Grimmy - I wasn't trying to suggesting that Appleby was the same as Glastonbury, merely that from the point of view of the locals such disruption to their normal lives is equally intolerable. As regards the links ... they show the very worst side of humanity which can also be found , unfortunately, ever weekend in city centres such as Newcastle and Birmingham. Drunkenness and violence is all part of the booze culture as I am sure any Policeman will tell you. Apparently what incidents there were during the Horse Fair did not overly concern the local constabulary. (SEE LINK 3) |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: greg stephens Date: 15 Jun 07 - 11:52 AM Well I'm off to Glastonbury Festival on Wednesday, as is my wont. A fantastic English cultural tradtion, like Appleby, though obviously not so old. I've never seen any horses drowned at Glastonbury, but people have been murdered, and assaulted in other ways. And there just occasionally happens to be a bit of rubbish too. If you cram a lot of people into a small place, things happen. Many wonderful things, and a small number of bad things. Coincidentally, I have just been reading an account of attempts to ban Burslem Wakes in the Potteries in the 19th century, due to riotous behaviour. The arguments on both sides are reproduced pretty nearly verbatim in this thread more than a century on. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: GUEST,ShockedandAppalledinReading Date: 15 Jun 07 - 11:45 AM I would hardly call it a discussion...and as I said, whare someone is from has no bearing on the matter..... |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too From: Folkiedave Date: 15 Jun 07 - 11:45 AM I don't think where anyone lives has any bearing on this matter at all... Well the point was that she was claiming to be something she was not. " Doesn't she know that Wrecker's Blood runs through our veins...and it matters not if it's a BMW bike, a box of oranges or 75 years of 'newborn' nappies...A WRECK IS A WRECK and it's cargo belongs to the people of The West Country!!!!!!!!!!" Well it seems she is not from the West Country but from Pinner. Otherwise you are correct it does not matter where she comes from. Ms Cornish was referring to something in terms directly contradictory to those she had used earlier this year. I pointed out the contradiction. I would have thought that was debate. I agree it is not constructive - neither was Lizzie's spurious argument about closing the fair down because of one individual's idiocy, ignoring far greater mistreatment of animals due to things like National Hunt Racing and 3-day eventing, something she has failed so far to address. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: greg stephens Date: 15 Jun 07 - 11:40 AM GUEST shocked and appalled in Reading: you say "I don't think where anyone lives has any bearing on this matter at all...and as for this bogus "us vs "them" debate, I think Ms Cornish was referring, rightly or wrongly, to Appleby as a whole and not one single group of people, as certain elements on these boards would have us believe". I would like to point out that you are 100% wrong, as well as shocked and appalled. If I may quote Ms Cornish verbatim, she spells it out very clearly herself: "if they cannot police it themselves...the Travelling Families that is, then they have no right to continue it". The three little ... in that quote, by the way, are hers in the original, not me leaving saomething out. Why not identify yourself, GUEST? It is often difficult for us Mudcatters to discuss a topic of mutual interest when you anonymous trolls turn up and muddy the waters, in the RIver Eden and elsewhere. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: Grimmy Date: 15 Jun 07 - 11:36 AM Sorry, I screwed up some of the links. However, the web addresses themselves tell a story. Appleby is no Glastonbury. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: Grimmy Date: 15 Jun 07 - 11:33 AM Just a random selection:
I could go on...... |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: Blowzabella Date: 15 Jun 07 - 11:32 AM Peter K I don't understand your comment about 'Get over it'. I was never 'under it' - I opened a subject for conversation, which has proved to be of interest. I've not pointed fingers or posted in a hysterical way - all I've done is point to information and also share some of my own experiences. As for Greg's comment about the meat industry - i did respond, if you look back. I agree there's not much the RSPCA could have done - but don't agree that they are wasting their time there. Or that the event is innocuous. Have you been? As I said - I've been several times - have ridden horses there and swum one in the river - so I'm not speaking as a total outsider. I'm by no means against the event - but nor do I view it with rose tinted spectacles. If you read my posts you would have seen that i actually spent my wedding night (well, part of it) at a traveller's camp - on their way back from Appleby, as it happens. Please don't speak to me as if I've called for it to be banned - or for anything similar - because I haven't. Read before you write, please. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: GUEST,ShockedandAppalledinReading Date: 15 Jun 07 - 11:30 AM "Yes, it's where madlizzie comes from, Pinner to be precise. A North West London suburb, not the West Country." I don't think where anyone lives has any bearing on this matter at all...and as for this bogus "us vs "them" debate, I think Ms Cornish was referring, rightly or wrongly, to Appleby as a whole and not one single group of people, as certain elements on these boards would have us believe. I always though these boards were for constructive debate...I am, perhaps a little bit naive in my beliefs |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: GUEST,FlatBackCaper Date: 15 Jun 07 - 11:22 AM "merely that these events occured during, and only during, the fair week." Lest this be forgotten. "A North East man has been flown to hospital after he was struck by a horse at the same fair. The elderly man, who was visiting the week-long Appleby Horse Fair in Cumbria on Monday, suffered serious head injuries, police said." and....."Residents in a Cumbrian town are calling for more to be done to tackle tonnes of rubbish left lying in fields after the Appleby Horse fair. About 60,000 visitors attended the annual show |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too From: nutty Date: 15 Jun 07 - 11:20 AM Grimmy -- I'm sure the locals in Appleby have much in common with those in Glastonbury. Such events do cause disruption but only for a very short time each year. I live at the seaside and near a racecourse and can assure you that my locality is taken over by drunken holiday makers and racegoers for far longer than that. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too From: Peter K (Fionn) Date: 15 Jun 07 - 11:12 AM A one-off, Blowzabella. Get over it. The police and RSPCA would be better employed tackling dog-fighting than wasting their time at an event as innocuous as the Appleby fair. And why was Greg's point about the meat industry dismissed so lightly? Do all those who would scrap a centuries-old tradition on account of one wretched horse refrain from eating the produce of our meat factories? (FWIW, I do.) Of course, neither the meat industry nor dog-fighting - nor for that matter the equestrian sports that have been mentioned - are associated primarily with travellers. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: Grimmy Date: 15 Jun 07 - 10:52 AM "As I said before .... if you are looking for blame don't just look at the travellers." If you read my posts, you will note that at no point did I blame the travellers, merely that these events occured during, and only during, the fair week. I am quite sure that outsiders are more than capable of sheep stealing, I will leave it to others to decide who are the most likely culprits. If you ask any of the local residents, you are likely to get a much less measured response. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too From: Folkiedave Date: 15 Jun 07 - 10:32 AM If he was stupid enough to drown a traveller's horse then he will not be legging very far I suspect. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: Blowzabella Date: 15 Jun 07 - 10:30 AM Nutty - you said: "I'm sure that having spent money on buying the horse the last thing the owner intended to do was to drown it." You are probably correct - but if you read the reports, you will see that the horse did not belong to the man who was riding it in the river. He had been told (possibly BY the owner) not to take it in the river, as it wasn't used to it. However, he saw fit to take the horse anyway (twocking a horse???) and swim it. This, I suspect, is why he did a runner when it all went wrong and the horse was drowned. Perhaps he suspected he'd get a 'jolly good telling off' by the owner of the (now) dead horse? Perhaps he has had one. Perhaps he is still legging it??? |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too From: nutty Date: 15 Jun 07 - 10:18 AM SO . NONE OF THE MESS IS LEFT BY THE 20/30,000 OUTSIDERS. As I said before .... if you are looking for blame don't just look at the travellers. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: Grimmy Date: 15 Jun 07 - 10:01 AM Quite so Bowzabella. But what it is manifestly not, as nutty claimed, is a 'balanced' look at Appleby Horse Fair. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: Blowzabella Date: 15 Jun 07 - 09:57 AM I think the link that nutty provided was to the 'Your Slideshow' section of the BBC Cumbria website - which asks viewers / listeners to send in their pics. It is not meant to present a pictorial review of events - they just put up a selection of what they are sent. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: Grimmy Date: 15 Jun 07 - 09:49 AM Well nutty, I've looked at every one of the pretty postcard scenes and I didn't see one dead horse - so I am at a loss to understand how that is "a more balanced look at what the fair is about". 'Balanced' suggests good and bad, the rough with the smooth, both sides of the story, even-handed, doesn't it? Where are the dog fighting images? The sheep stealing pics? The drunken fighting photos? The cottages with ivy around the door and human excrement on the lawn? For a proper balanced view, speak to the locals as well as the visitors. Except that they'll still be clearing up the mess for the next two weeks. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: greg stephens Date: 15 Jun 07 - 08:06 AM Well, so "they" should have "their" Fair taken away from "them" if one of "them" does something stupid(as young men with beer in them often do). Well, I should like to point out that the Gypsy May Bradley was a fantastic repository for old traditional folksongs preserved in her family(and many other Gypsies did the same job). So, my proposal is that all of "them" should be given an EFDSS gold medal each in acknowledgement of "their" services to English folk music. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too From: nutty Date: 15 Jun 07 - 08:00 AM This site gives a more balanced look at what the fair is about Appleby Horse Fair 2007 |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: Grimmy Date: 15 Jun 07 - 07:56 AM I believe it should continue. Yes, Blowzabella, it is a rough and ready event - they are rough and ready people - and it would lose its character somewhat if it were to be 'sanitised'. I also did not intend to create the impression that there is unremitting animal cruelty (too much for my taste, but perhaps I am over-sensitive). I just wish the authorities would show a little more backbone and intervene when the odd individual oversteps the mark. Then, perhaps, I would consider returning (the Eden Valley is one of England's best kept secrets). |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too From: nutty Date: 15 Jun 07 - 07:44 AM As I said .... to my mind this is not a spectator sport. I can see no reason for 20/30,000 people being there. It's the onlookers that have created such problems not the Travellers. I also oppose cruelty but am realistic enough to realise that it happens - occasionally accidentally (as in this case). I'm sure that having spent money on buying the horse the last thing the owner intended to do was to drown it. Whereas in the case of racehorses etc. the owners accept death as a possibility when they place their animals in such situations. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: Ruth Archer Date: 15 Jun 07 - 07:36 AM Point of order: the 1685 charter was for a fair in April. The mid-June horse fair wasn't constituted till the mid-18c (according to Roud again). Having never visited the fair, it's very hard to sit in judgement on it. There are conflicting opinions here from people who have attended, and I don't believe it's possible to understand an event like this from looking on a few websites, so I'm not going to offer any further, ill-informed opinions of my own. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: Blowzabella Date: 15 Jun 07 - 07:35 AM I have to say, i think Grimmy has the right of the matter - it can often be harsh, rough and is less regulated than auction marts etc (I don't think I've ever seen anyone nutting a horse - or a cow for that matter- but I have seen heads severely yanked, sticks, thumps etc). Rough handling is probably one of those very greay areas that the RSPCA would be necessarily cautious about getting involved with - they have slightly more power nowadays with the new Act - but .... I'm NOT saying that the event is full of animal cruelty - not by any stretch of the imagination - but there are elements there, for whom bravado and the occasion of the Fair - the spectacle, whatever, causes them to act in very macho ways - treating the horses, as I said, more like a roadster than flesh and blood. Perhaps they hope it will impress the girls? I don't know. I will agree that part of me loves the tradition and spectacle of the Fair - I see the vardos going up and returning from the fair every year - even spent part of my wedding night with a group of travellers, round their fire (long story) - but, let's not forget that they are real people - often rough - many of them are not strangers to a good punch up - they aren't (or most of them aren't) recreating a tradition - they aren't social workers / teachers who dress up once a year (although there is some sense of occasion - and I know it's a kind of holiday for many). I've been drinking in the pubs with many of the traders / associates - would not want to be on the wrong side of them. I'm rambling incoherently here but ... (I'm a a girl Ruth!) |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: Grimmy Date: 15 Jun 07 - 07:31 AM nutty You might want to tell that to the 20/30,000 spectators who visit Appleby Fair every year. I oppose cruelty to any living creature wherever and whenever I find it. If that makes me 'sentimental' then so be it. How would you describe yourself? |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too From: nutty Date: 15 Jun 07 - 07:06 AM Grimmy .... this is a HORSE FAIR not a spectator sport - the behaviour of the people there is no different to what you would find in any Cattle Market in the country. It's only in this country that we become sentimental about our horses - remember - on the Continent they eat them. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: Grimmy Date: 15 Jun 07 - 06:49 AM The RSPCA and the local police are sh*t scared to intervene in case they provoke an 'incident'. Besides, the travellers are very adept (having been doing it since 1685) at conducting their activities out of sight of the authorities. There is an 'official' fair for the benefit of the visitors and an 'unofficial' one for the serious dealing - and that's the one very few people get to see. Westmorland Borough Council nade an unsuccessful attempt to close the fair in 1965. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: Ruth Archer Date: 15 Jun 07 - 06:33 AM Grimmy, if this is the case, why does the RSPCA, who maintain a presence throught the fair, not intervene? One would have thought the fair would have been closed down by now if such claims could be substantiated by independent witnesses from an animal protection society. I'm not being disingenuous: it's a serious question. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: Grimmy Date: 15 Jun 07 - 06:31 AM I first went to Appleby Horse Fair at the age of 6 months apparently. I went every year thereafter for some 30 years (my grandmother was an Appleby lass). It may be true, LTS, that you've "never known ANY people (other than upper class little white girls and their ponies) who have more respect for their horses than the Travelling people and their families.", but please believe me when I tell you that not at Appleby Fair they don't. I've witnessed horses being kicked, punched, head-butted, whipped, beaten with sticks, run into the ground. Indeed, the reason I no longer attend is because of the mindless cruelty inflicted on those poor beasts YEAR AFTER YEAR. I can also tell you that you won't get many eye-witness accounts from the local residents (many of whom are my relatives) because they stay in their homes with all the windows and doors locked during the fair week. That's the 'reality' of Appleby Horse Fair. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: Ruth Archer Date: 15 Jun 07 - 06:28 AM "Its callous owner wanted to observe the tradition of ducking each animal's head in the river." Daily Mirror, 14-06-2007 Ducking a horse's head under water is not holding a horse's head under water. There's a pretty big difference. Blowzabella, who has attended the fair on numerous occasions, says he has never seen a horse having its head held under water. When I've washed pet dogs in the past, I've ducked their heads under water in order to wash them. Quick, call the RSPCA. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too From: nutty Date: 15 Jun 07 - 06:09 AM Ducking - I believe they do something similar to humans at some Baptism ceremonies. As I said before .... get real |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: Liz the Squeak Date: 15 Jun 07 - 06:07 AM It's ritual cleansing - you don't wash your body and leave your face dirty. LTS |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: Liz the Squeak Date: 15 Jun 07 - 06:06 AM By the way, I hate horses and I count myself as one of those 'non-travelling people' who don't understand. The difference is, I try not to impose my way of life onto theirs. I had a Romany friend when I was 5-6. Her family was Benham, from the Piddletrenthide camp in Dorset. I was one of the only children in the school who would speak to her or her sisters and I like to think we were friends. I certainly never teased her or told her she smelled like so many of my classmates did. At Secondary school, I was the only one who'd sit next to Peggy-Sue on the bus - her family moved onto the Piddletrenthide camp with the Benhams for a while, another Romany. Manitas regularly played at sessions with the Queen of the Gypsy Council, shortly before her death a few years ago. Josie's family still keep horses nearby so I am not totally ignorant of the Travelling way of life. With all the respect the Travellers have for their horses, I'm not surprised people tried to help the horse out. I am surprised that a Traveller took it in. I'm not surprised that it was a male - the machismo of "taming" an obviously "wild" horse would have appealed to more than one person there. I'm pretty sure that with such clear pictures in the media, the Travellers know who it was. If it was another Traveller, the owner of the horse will have his payment by next fair. If it wasn't, then there is a whole network across the country who will point him out to the authorities. LTS |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: Grimmy Date: 15 Jun 07 - 06:01 AM I'd like some more evidence for the idea that the horses' heads are regularly held under water. "Its callous owner wanted to observe the tradition of ducking each animal's head in the river." (my emphasis) Daily Mirror, 14-06-2007 |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: Liz the Squeak Date: 15 Jun 07 - 05:48 AM More thread drift. D'you know... I'm from the West Country, my family came from a coastal village with a murderous beach - I have 193 years of family records if you want the proof - but I have never found any evidence that the inhabitants ever did anything other than try to help those in trouble at sea. If a ship were ever to founder off that particular part of the coast, it was a goner - it's that dangerous. There are records that things were 'recovered' from the sea - goods, timber, rope and sails, sailors' chests, passenger's luggage and so on... if it was perishable, it was eaten. If it was useable, it was recycled. If it was personal, at least one parish Clerk made an attempt to restore lost items to the families of the former owners who like as not, got a Christian burial in the churchyard. Wrecking doesn't run in my blood... I'd like to think that compassion does. That parish Clerk was my great, great grandfather. Back on topic now... As for the "intentional" drowning of a horse at a festival few non-travelling people understand - my reading of the articles is that someone took a frightened horse into deep water having been told previously not to. The horse, not liking water or having it's head dunked panicked. During that panic it broke a leg and, unable to get it's footing whilst trying to escape the rider, drowned. I can't see anywhere where it suggests the horse was being deliberately held under. If the horse couldn't get its footing, it's likely the man couldn't either and didn't dare let go the horse. As for "the people who are attending have no respect for horses" - I've never known ANY people (other than upper class little white girls and their ponies) who have more respect for their horses than the Travelling people and their families. Would there be demands to close down the Horse fair if it were the human who had drowned? LTS |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too From: Folkiedave Date: 15 Jun 07 - 05:38 AM Interesting concept Richard. I look forward to people using when defending themselves. "The vehicle - though brand new - was clearly abandoned at the roadside your honour, indeed I saw the owner leave it and go into a shop. Chances are it was insured, so I took it for recycling". Do you not think it is for the owners of goods to decide whether their goods are stolen, looted, or recycled or not? Strange concept of morality. Anyone would think you were a lawyer. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too From: Morris-ey Date: 15 Jun 07 - 05:28 AM The law on theft takes no account of what is insured - nor should it. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: Lizzie Cornish Date: 15 Jun 07 - 05:28 AM >>Ms Cornish is fond of relating the tale of a drunken teenager who rampaged around Sidmouth with a sword.<< A young local lad died two years ago, on the Friday before Folk Week, after being cut down with a Samurai Sword, in Sidmouth High St. at 2am one morning, by a man in his 40's. His family are still in deep grief today. You may think it appropriate to use something so horrendous to have a sick dig Diane. I do not. You belittle yourself ever further in my eyes, as do your 'mates' above. And now, back to the Horse Fair... |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: Stu Date: 15 Jun 07 - 05:14 AM "In those circumstances scavenging is almost a morality play in favour of recycling." Does that include the rifling through and stealing of people's personal belongings? |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: Richard Bridge Date: 15 Jun 07 - 05:09 AM Sometimes legality is one thing and morality another. Wrecking a ship as such is plainly wrong. But if a ship is sunk accidentally and its cargo washed ashore? That cargo will (almost invariably) be insured. The insurers will pay out the insureds. Now the insures, by operation of law, own the goods. If the insurers take the goods they will be scrapped. In those circumstances scavenging is almost a morality play in favour of recycling. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too From: Folkiedave Date: 15 Jun 07 - 04:49 AM So the ancient blood of wreckers does not run through her veins after all? Well you could have fooled me. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Appleby Horse Fair: A Tradition Too Far? From: The Borchester Echo Date: 15 Jun 07 - 04:39 AM Ms Cornish is fond of relating the tale of a drunken teenager who rampaged around Sidmouth with a sword. By a logical extension she might as well announce that people should boycott that seaside town and festival because of what happened there once. Next she'll be telling prospective visitors to Appleby to listen to a Show Of Hands CD first, thus ensuring the safety of horses and the future of civilisation. Herga Kitty told me in another thread (vaguely about Tyne Of Harrow) to 'keep Harrow out of it' but, here it pops up again. Yes, it's where madlizzie comes from, Pinner to be precise. A North West London suburb, not the West Country. |
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