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BS: Crash of U.S. Economy

GUEST,Mark Calendar 14 Jun 07 - 11:49 PM
Riginslinger 15 Jun 07 - 12:04 PM
Peace 15 Jun 07 - 12:07 PM
Richard Bridge 15 Jun 07 - 12:42 PM
Amos 15 Jun 07 - 01:25 PM
Rapparee 15 Jun 07 - 01:32 PM
Peace 15 Jun 07 - 01:42 PM
Bill D 15 Jun 07 - 01:53 PM
Little Hawk 15 Jun 07 - 01:58 PM
Rapparee 15 Jun 07 - 02:03 PM
JohnInKansas 15 Jun 07 - 02:15 PM
JohnInKansas 15 Jun 07 - 02:17 PM
Don Firth 15 Jun 07 - 02:19 PM
Don Firth 15 Jun 07 - 02:34 PM
Rapparee 15 Jun 07 - 02:57 PM
Richard Bridge 15 Jun 07 - 03:33 PM
Rapparee 15 Jun 07 - 04:08 PM
Riginslinger 15 Jun 07 - 04:11 PM
Peace 15 Jun 07 - 04:14 PM
Rapparee 15 Jun 07 - 04:20 PM
CarolC 15 Jun 07 - 04:44 PM
Peace 15 Jun 07 - 04:52 PM
Mickey191 15 Jun 07 - 06:39 PM
Ron Davies 15 Jun 07 - 08:48 PM
Bobert 15 Jun 07 - 09:03 PM
Stringsinger 16 Jun 07 - 04:50 PM
Amos 16 Jun 07 - 05:11 PM
Peace 16 Jun 07 - 05:17 PM
Dickey 17 Jun 07 - 10:40 AM
Rapparee 17 Jun 07 - 10:57 AM
CarolC 17 Jun 07 - 12:41 PM
GUEST,Mark Calendar 17 Jun 07 - 01:33 PM
Little Hawk 17 Jun 07 - 02:15 PM
Rapparee 17 Jun 07 - 02:49 PM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Jun 07 - 03:24 PM
GUEST,diana 17 Jun 07 - 04:30 PM
Peace 17 Jun 07 - 06:24 PM
Little Hawk 17 Jun 07 - 08:45 PM
GUEST,Arkie 17 Jun 07 - 09:03 PM
Little Hawk 17 Jun 07 - 11:59 PM
Little Hawk 18 Jun 07 - 12:22 AM
GUEST,redhorse at work 18 Jun 07 - 08:40 AM
Riginslinger 18 Jun 07 - 04:42 PM
Donuel 18 Jun 07 - 04:42 PM
Riginslinger 23 Jun 07 - 10:14 AM
Riginslinger 26 Jun 07 - 07:03 PM
Riginslinger 02 Jul 07 - 07:17 PM
GUEST,Mark Calendar 18 Jul 07 - 08:51 PM
GUEST,Jim Martin 31 Jul 07 - 12:26 PM
GUEST,Jim Martin 10 Aug 07 - 12:23 PM

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Subject: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: GUEST,Mark Calendar
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 11:49 PM

It's official. Mark your calendars. The crash of the U.S. economy has begun. It was announced the morning of Wednesday, June 13, 2007, by economic writers Steven Pearlstein and Robert Samuelson in the pages of the Washington Post, one of the foremost house organs of the U.S. monetary elite....

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=5964


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 12:04 PM

I can't figure out what took it so long.


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Peace
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 12:07 PM

From the article:

"What is likely to happen? I'd suggest four possible scenarios:

Acceptance by the U.S. population of diminished prosperity and a declining role in the world. Grin and bear it. Live with your parents into your 40s instead of your 30s. Work two or three part-time jobs on the side, if you can find them. Die young if you lose your health care. Declare bankruptcy if you can, or just walk away from your debts until they bring back debtor's prison like they've done in Dubai. Meanwhile, China buys more and more U.S. properties, homes, and businesses, as economists close to the Federal Reserve have suggested. If you're an enterprising illegal immigrant, have fun continuing to jack up the underground economy, avoid business licenses and taxes, and rent out group houses to your friends.
Times of economic crisis produce international tension and politicians tend to go to war rather than face the economic music. The classic example is the worldwide depression of the 1930s leading to World War II. Conditions in the coming years could be as bad as they were then. We could have a really big war if the U.S. decides once and for all to haul off and let China, or whomever, have it in the chops. If they don't want our dollars or our debt any more, how about a few nukes?
Maybe we'll finally have a revolution either from the right or the center involving martial law, suspension of the Bill of Rights, etc., combined with some kind of military or forced-labor dictatorship. We're halfway there anyway. Forget about a revolution from the left. They wouldn't want to make anyone mad at them for being too radical.
Could there ever be a real try at reform, maybe even an attempt just to get back to the New Deal? Since the causes of the crisis are monetary, so would be the solutions. The first step would be for the Federal Reserve System to be abolished as a bank of issue and a transformation of the nation's credit system into a genuine public utility by the federal government. This way we could rebuild our manufacturing and public infrastructure and develop an income assurance policy that would benefit everyone.
The latter is the only sensible solution. There are monetary reformers who know how to do it if anyone gave them half a chance."


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 12:42 PM

If it leads eventually to a welfare state and socialism in teh USA it would be a silver lining.


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Amos
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 01:25 PM

The scenario is not going to happen as described. That is not to say it won't happen; but over-pricing leveraged buyouts isn't going to be the keystone, IMHO. Companies folding because they are ovcer-extended and don't have the market to service their own debt will happen, but I doubt it will happen in sufficient domino-like chains to precipitate an economy wide collapse.

If such chains do develop, we will face a depression, and will have to grind our way out of it; and when that occurs we will be able to trace it back to Bush 1, Bush 2 and Pops Regan, IMHO.

This is because they created a climate which nourishes exuberant acquisition as the guiding pole-star of business, reinforcing the worst characteristics of a gluttony-based economy, neatly rationalized with glib phrases about free enterprise and laissez-faire.


But, as I say, I suspect it is not going to go down the way this article describes it.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 01:32 PM

Okay. I just bought a .30-30, so I'll be okay as long as the ammo holds out.

Jeez, I've been saying this for five or six years....


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Peace
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 01:42 PM

Lever action?


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 01:53 PM

I barely noticed the last 3-4 crashes. If you don't have much to begin with, you can't lose much.


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 01:58 PM

So true.


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 02:03 PM

Yeah. Marlin 336. Nicely accurate, too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 02:15 PM

Two attempts to post a comment. Both went through all the motions. Neither showed in thread.

Was I that insulting?

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 02:17 PM

One more time:


But did anyone else notice the addtional article linked on the bar at the top of the page that GUEST linked to:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=CHI20070521&articleId=5720?

It perhaps overstates things a bit, but one more small step toward

"ich bin die führer"

- just like ...

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 02:19 PM

Factors in the Crash of '29 and the subsequent depression ("the Great Depression" – but I knew some people who were there who didn't think it was all that "great!") were wild-eyed speculation and over-investment:   buying stocks that had nothing much to back them, including such things as the recent Enron scam and other bits of hanky-panky, and a substantial measure of either over-production or under-consumption, depending on how you look at it. There were warehouses full of stuff that people weren't buying, partly because they couldn't afford it, but to a large degree because they didn't want it (current example, the large number of American-made autos that dealers can't sell). The result of slumping sales was that factories started laying people off and closing factories (as is currently happening in the U. S. auto industry), which exacerbated the problem because now there were increasing numbers of people who didn't have the money to buy the surplus goods. In the 1930s, the unemployment rate topped 25%.

There are a lot of different factors these days, but, the main factors that precipitated the 1930s depression are definitely at work today. Yeah, I could see something similar to that happening again.

Let's hope that there are some presidential candidates coming up for the next election who a) come equipped with a brain, and b) know a little history.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 02:34 PM

Cross-posted with John. No, I missed that, John. Thanks for calling our attention to it.

I'm e-mailing my Congressional Representative and both Senators about this right now, asking a) is this true? And b) if so, what are you going to do about it?

Now. Do it NOW!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 02:57 PM

I saw it. Haven't done anything yet, but I will be. Soooooooo reminiscent of the Cold War.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 03:33 PM

I am puzzled how that (immediately preceding link) can be constitutional. Perhaps that doesn't matter once the tanks are rolling.


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 04:08 PM

Yeah, me too. Of course, the tanks that roll have to be loyal to the guy who ordered 'em out....


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 04:11 PM

Yeah, what would happen if we gave the office of the president all that power and somebody even dumber than GWB got elected?


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Peace
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 04:14 PM

Look at the EOs and see that he can have that power simply by saying "I have that power." The stuff is already on the books.


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 04:20 PM

I've thought for a very long time that the War Powers Act should be rescinded.


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 04:44 PM

This should be read in conjunction with the article in John in Kansas' link...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=CHI20070515&articleId=5649


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Peace
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 04:52 PM

I have thought for a few years that this would come about, and if you'll pardon me, I'll say it yet again.

1) The USA is close to bankruptcy
2) The only chance is to get rid of 'money' altogether and go to some sort of 'electric dollar'
3) Create or allow a terrorist incident in the US
4) Declare that the various Executive Orders are in effect
5 Boom--instant police state
6) There'd be a use for the prison camps/detention camps
7) Lots of free labour available--do it or get shot, your call

Hell, I was called crazy then and I'll be called crazy now. Water off a duck's back. "Say goodnight, Gracie." "Goodnight, Gracie."


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Mickey191
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 06:39 PM

So I take it that FDIC means not a damn thing??

Should I get my pennies together & move to Ireland?


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Ron Davies
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 08:48 PM

"Mark Calendar"---

Samuelson, etc. "Remarkably alarmist"? Come on--what do you think a columnist's stock in trade is?

As my favorite economic analyst, Shania Twain, put it: "That don't impress me much."


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 09:03 PM

Well, I been saying this for the last couple years here in Mudville... The US is getting more and more like Haiti with 1% holding all the wealth and the rest of the population in the crapper...

Retirement has become a dram for even most baby boomers... Their kids??? Only a samll percentage will ever be able to retire...

This has been the "perfect storm" for the dieing anti-New Dealists and the drweam has been passed down to their kids and grandkids... These are now the upper 1% who aren't smart enough to realize that history repeats itself...

This isn't as much about the US economy as the financial decisions that the upper 1% has made which have effected the US economy... Yeah, those decisions might have been good for them but have, upon closer examination, been very bad for the country...

This is one reason that I stringly oppose the Bush tax cuts that have gone to the capitalists who have, in turn, rolled the rest of the country under the bus...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Stringsinger
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 04:50 PM

Welcome to the new Guilded Age.


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Amos
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 05:11 PM

String:

Unless you're talking about less expensive guitars, or primitive trade unions, I think you mean Gilded Age.


But maybe we should call it the Guilt Age -- a nice compromise between sociology and typography and psychology.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Peace
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 05:17 PM

They do that to horses, don't they?


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Dickey
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 10:40 AM

"with 1% holding all the wealth"

Bobert:

If you are interested in facts in place of left wing, class warfare fairy tales, here are some facts

The dark green colors are the countries with the most equitable distrubution of wealth and the darker reds are the least.

It shows the US in the same category as China, Mongoliia, Iran, Turkey, Bolivia, Kenya. Guinea, Uraguay, Cambodia and more equitable than Russia, Venezuela,Peru, Malaysia, The Phillipines, Madagascar, The Ivory Coast or Guatamala. Two categories more equitable than Mexico or Argentina. Three categories higher than Brazil or South Africa. The least equitable are Namibia, Botswana, Swaziland, Lesotho, Sierra Leone and the Central African Republic.

The US is one category below the UK, France, Italy, Australia,,,"


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 10:57 AM

Whether true or not, the Middle Class in the US feels not only marginalized but headed for extinction. And the truth of the matter is that it doesn't matter, what matters is the perception of those involved.

Ultimately, it was the Middle Class which voted into power every administration and especially those from Reagan to the present (and yes, I include Clinton). And as I talk to people here in this very "red" state I note a massive swing away from those who are being held responsible for the situation the country is perceived to be in.

For the first time in my life, I can even see that if change doesn't come to the US, people in the US will force change -- with violence if they feel it necessary. And don't count on the military being on the side of whatever administration is in power, either.


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 12:41 PM

China, Mongoliia, Iran, Turkey, Bolivia, Kenya. Guinea, Uraguay, Cambodia

Most of these are considered Third World countries. And we're two behind India, which has a reputation of being particularly bad when it comes to equitable distribution of wealth. We are supposedly the wealthiest nation on the earth and we're two categories behind India when it comes to equitable distribution of wealth. We have become a Third World nation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: GUEST,Mark Calendar
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 01:33 PM

Yes. The U.S. has already slipped into third world status, but the numbers are fudged to make it seem otherwise. Americans have been trained to focus on 2 numbers (the Dow Jones Industrial Avg and unemployment) as the only numbers that bear watching when it comes to judging the economic health of the country. But there are hundreds of indices that track financial activity, and in the U.S., all those indices are sloping downwards.

I believe that if and when a sudden financial crash is needed, it will come from toppling the derivatives market. Derivatives are like the "marginal" stock market trading practices of 1929. People borrowing paper with paper as collateral.

Derivatives have formed a huge bubble of debt that would eradicate the middle class if it is exploded. Pretty much all savings and pensions would disappear (they're invested in derivatives).

If you have any sense, put your money into something of true value now. Buy land, gold, guns, food. Prepare to defend those assets against people who didn't think ahead.

And when the rebellion comes, don't turn to the Clinton/Bush people who created the crisis. They'll try to re-establish control, but when they fail they'll go to their South Sea island compounds and leave us to fight it out among ourselves and the foreign troops sent in to subdue us.

For you women out there, I recommend a Savage .243 with detachable magazine. Doesn't kick much and with the right scope you can take out ChiComs at 300 yards easy. One shot (always shoot the squad leader), then get in your soccer mom SUV for the getaway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 02:15 PM

Hasn't Mel Gibson made this movie already? Or was it Kevin Costner? ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 02:49 PM

Dear Mr. Calendar:

Please don't be silly. An economic crash, yes. But IF and ONLY IF certain criteria are met -- and I will leave these to your researching, as I don't feel like doing everything for everyone today.

But as for "foreign troops" and such, well, don't be ridiculous. Your xenophobia shows in the use of "Chi Coms" -- the Chinese are too busy making money, and would be too busy trying to stay afloat themselves if the US economy collapsed, to send troops here.

Your advice about "shooting the squad leader" is also dated, as is your recommendation of a firearm for women.

I shan't post here anymore.

Sincerely yours,
Rapaire


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 03:24 PM

"Catastrophic Emergency" means any incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the U.S. population, infrastructure, environment, economy, or government functions

So it looks as if Katrina would have qualified, as would September 11.


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: GUEST,diana
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 04:30 PM

Thanks for the link.

Compare the U.S. to Europe and Canada.


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Peace
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 06:24 PM

The thing is, Bush did not implement the Executive Orders that are now all nicely lined up and set to be declared law. I think the worst is yet to come for the USA.


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 08:45 PM

That's a safe bet, Peace.


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 09:03 PM

Should the National Continuity Policy ever go into effect, I predict that George Bush will be assasinated and Dick Chaney will replace him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 11:59 PM

That would be an even worse scenario than having Bush "in charge"! (assuming he really is, which I sort of doubt...)

Say...I just heard a really loud sound. Could that be it? (the economy crashing, I mean...)


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Jun 07 - 12:22 AM

Never mind. It was just Chongo again. He's testing out what happens if you drop an old wooden desk off the top of a two-story building onto an asphalt driveway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: GUEST,redhorse at work
Date: 18 Jun 07 - 08:40 AM

One of the classic signs of economic downturn is an increasing fear/hatred of immigrants...................

nick


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 18 Jun 07 - 04:42 PM

That must be why the Bush Administration is trying to pretend that they're not a problem.


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jun 07 - 04:42 PM

The 15% correction isn't due until fall or even Christmas.

With Apple at 125 I just want it to reach 150 before Sept.


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Jun 07 - 10:14 AM

The crash of the US economy really began with the election of Ronald Reagan, after which the wealth of the nation began to shift from the middle class to the filthy rich. It accelerated greatly after Bush Jr. came to power.


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 07:03 PM

In all honesty, if the economy is going to crash, I hope it does it while he's still in office so he can get full credit for the policies--or lack of them--that he's put into place.


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 07:17 PM

We've had a perverted economy ever since who ever was running Ronald Reagan introduced superstition into government.


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: GUEST,Mark Calendar
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 08:51 PM

U.S. Treasury Holds Disaster Drill in Tampa Bay

http://truthorlies.org/govtarticle0131.html

(Remember, the U.S. govt was holding a "drill" on 9/11. In that drill, planes were being hijacked and crashed into buildings. The same thing happened in the London bombings...the drills "went live.")


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 12:26 PM

Guest PP.

I just wanted to know what had happened to the other thread, is that such a crime? What is your problem?

I see where I went wrong now, I hadn't put the full-stops in the abbreviation "U.S."


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Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 10 Aug 07 - 12:23 PM

Also, by refreshing thread, it may be of interest to readers who have not come across it before.


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