BS: Crash of U.S. Economy

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Jul 08 - 02:03 AM

Things go in waves, Doug. They go up for a bit, then they go down for a bit, then they go up again, then down again, and so on. Just like a sine wave. That happens in just about everything. It seems, in fact, to be the normal state of the whole Universe. It is reflected in changing weather patterns too. Take a look at the stock market and you will see that it goes in similar waves. In fact...that's what makes the game so interesting for those who play it.

It's not, and never has been, a question of "the sky falling". The sky lowers a bit, then it raises a bit, then it lowers again. You really should stop dragging that stupid expression "the sky is falling" into every political/social discussion here where some people say a few things you don't happen to agree with.

There will come a day when the USA is not the number one power in the world any longer, Doug. There comes such a day for all great powers. But if you cross your fingers and hope for the best, that day might not come until sometime after you and I are not here anymore....in which case you'll never be too badly disappointed. ;-)

Think outside the box, man. Your "American" version of reality is just a temporary one, and it's pretty arbitrary too. Have a little humility.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Jul 08 - 01:30 PM

"Most times, when something falls, it doesn't wait a year to hit the bottom."


                     Yes, it started falling the minute Ronald Reagan's first budget his Congress, and it's been falling in spurts ever since.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jul 08 - 09:01 AM

When he invaded Iraq Oil was selling at $25 a barrel. Today that same barrel of oil has more than quadrupled. The military is disillusioned and war weary; their equipment has been driven into the ground or been blown to pieces, along with the GI's that tried to use it: Yet all this administration seems to care about is starting a much bigger war.
The nation has never before even approached the kind of national and international debt that we have now! In case you care every man woman and child, in America, now already owes the government $400,000.00 each, directly because of the failed polices over the last seven years-when will this stop: "Never ­ because we are in the never-ending war" according to President Cheney.


Two banks failed Friday and there could be as many as 300 reorganizations.

One out of 171 mortgage are in foreclosure. About 1/6th of home loans will fail.

All the agencies designed to protect America are now staffed and owned by people who only want to protect their foreign investments.
Nat Assoc of Man. etc.
ALL OF THEM

This country may have been made on the backs of the poor and protectionist policies made us wealthy but today it is all sold due to the cheap dollar and Financial giants who protect only their investment with lobbying and lieing.

Bell Labs was just sold to France, Budweiser to Belgium, the list is scary. GM to Abu Dabe

You think Enron stole? The entire country has been stolen by Wall St, Banks and Corporations that could care less. They are not American. Free trade was never meant to help you.


If you don't know whats going on yet, close your eyes and call everyone else a pessimist. You will not be the answer or help to your country anymore. You drank the kool aid and may never know better again.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jul 08 - 09:34 AM

Westinghouse along with its nuclear labs was sold to Toshiba.
What has not been outsourced has been sold with the cheap dollar.

The last thing Americans had was their home. The banks and Wall Street took care of that. Of course they bought laws to let them do anything they wanted and now are bailed out.

You have been milked by 6 wealthy families more than the Golded Age exploited labor.


We are now skimming by on the full faith and credit of the US Treasury.

you think that is a good bet?

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Jul 08 - 01:14 PM

"You have been milked by 6 wealthy families more than the Golded Age exploited labor."


                      Donuel - That statement could use a little explaination.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Jul 08 - 01:18 PM

Ah, yes the "I'm all right, Jack" attitude we've come to expect from Bush supporters. I'm doing fine, I'm in the lifeboat--don't talk to me about how you're drowning. Exactly why GWB is so popular.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Jul 08 - 01:20 PM

Re: "...Most times, when something falls.."

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 26 Jul 08 - 02:41 PM

There's a dark and a troubled side of life
There's a bright and a sunny side too
Though we meet with the darkness and strife
The sunny side we also may view

   Keep on the sunny side   always on the sunny side
   Keep on the sunny side of life
   It will help us every day it will brighten all our way
   If we keep on the sunny side of life

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Jul 08 - 08:35 PM

Donuel - If we just knew who the six families were, we could watch for them coming down the street!

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: heric
Date: 26 Jul 08 - 10:41 PM

Senator Obama and Senator McCain both refrained from voting on the bailout today. Which chickenshit shall lead us?

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 26 Jul 08 - 11:08 PM

Sounds like Doug is looking for a crash along the lines of what took place in 1929. I don't believe that's going to happen this time around.

If the '29 crash was like a man jumping from the window of a 30-story skyscraper, the current crash is more like a drunk falling down the stairs of that same skyscraper one flight at a time. He'll fall down a flight, get up, dust himself off, take a few deep breaths, and fall down another flight. Eventually, he'll wind up in the same spot as the guy who jumped. It's just going to take a lot longer. The good news is that he might sober up along the way.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 09:04 AM

The ecomomy is not in Armagedon mode. It has however been exploited by two and three figure billionaire parasites to the point where the host will not recover for 2 or three generations.

Earlier I meant to say Gilded Age. The Golded Age is known for Robber Barons of Railroad and steel fame. They made the laws and they called the shots. The robber barons of today have tools today like media, think tanks, religious exploitation, law making, electronic trading preference and an anominity that ascribes more power to a concentrated few than any 6 Presidents will ever have.

We have an administration that has new agencies like HLS answerable directly to the president.   NSA and CIA have been decimated/ purged of the truth tellers. Now even the EPA is directly controled by the WHite House. A KGB style Executive office is poised to create new hot and cold running wars and legal authority to yell enemy combatent and make people disappear. Bush, Pinochet and Putin have everything in common except for the astounding W factor of emotional and personal incompetance. One thing we might thank god for.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 10:54 AM

"If the '29 crash was like a man jumping from the window of a 30-story skyscraper, the current crash is more like a drunk falling down the stairs of that same skyscraper one flight at a time. He'll fall down a flight, get up, dust himself off, take a few deep breaths, and fall down another flight. Eventually, he'll wind up in the same spot as the guy who jumped. It's just going to take a lot longer. The good news is that he might sober up along the way."


             Bee-dubya-ell - I think you've described it pretty well. What it seems to me that you haven't taken into account is, this is a situation that has been going on for some time now. And I hate to be the one to bring bad news, but there's just as good a chance that he'll break his neck and die as sober up along the way.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 12:51 PM

Rig, you may be right. But if the drunk does get sober, that sobriety will be achieved by getting rid of a number of false assumptions (addictions, if you will) that are underlying causes of the current economic situation. Some of those assumptions are:

1) Oil will be cheap forever.

2) Buying on credit is as good as, or even preferable to, paying cash.

3) The financial sector, which does nothing but facilitate the flow of money from one place to another while actually producing nothing, is of greater value to our economy than the manufacturing and agricultural sectors.

If the guy falling down the stairs comes to the realization that the above assumptions are delusional and adjusts his behavior appropriately, there's a good chance that the resulting new economic paradigm that grows out of that realization will be healthier and more sane than the one which is currently in the process of collapsing around us. If he doesn't make the necessary changes and continues to attempt to live via the current economic paridigm, yes, he's gonna break his fool neck.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 12:55 PM

Some people mock others by talking about the sky falling when real problems are discussed. Others do it by saying "let them eat cake". The basic sentiments are the same. "I've got mine, to hell with everyone else."

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 01:40 PM

Well, BWL - I agree with all of those observations. Remember what happened to Jimmy Carter, though, when he suggested we look for alternative forms of energy. I guess our man hadn't sobered up at that point. Has he now?

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: DougR
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 07:24 PM

The U. S. economy has crashed? It has? Because the Washington Post said it had in June of this year? Horrors. The surely it must be so!

Horse Pucky! A recession certainly would precede a crash, and according to accepted economic consensus, we are not even in a recession.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 08:02 PM

What the more enlightened participants in the discussion are saying is, the US Economy is in the process of crashing.
                In my opinion, it's been going on since whoever was running Ronald Reagan tried to steal the country blind back in the 1980's.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: heric
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 08:04 PM

New orders for durable goods in June up .8% which is an awesome number and I thought DougR was on to something but, whoops, 87% of those were for military consumption.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 01:14 AM

Well, the American dollar used to be worth $1.50 Canadian. Now it's worth only $1.00 Canadian.

So, Doug, either Canada is doing tremendously better than the USA or the USA is falling back badly. Or both.

Gosh, and we've got more socialism in Canada. It's a conundrum, isn't it, Doug? Of course, we didn't spend a trillion dollars on an unnecessary war in Iraq...

Now, here's the really ironical part, Doug. ;-) I run an export business here. I get paid entirely in US dollars! So I would be delighted if your dollar had remained strong. I've lost 40% of my cash flow to your dilapidated dollar in the past couple of years!

I keep hoping that your sunny and optimistic views about the state of the American economy get validated by some real evidence of it...such as the return of a strong American dollar.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 07:50 AM

Astute observation, heric, about which chickenshit shall lead us. Both candidates have been eerily silent about the economic problems Americans are facing.

Yesterday on some news program (I was surfing, so don't remember which), they were saying gas consumption was down by over 2% in the past month, and part of the reason why gas prices were dropping.

Sure, I think to myself. Sure.

I don't think the gas price fixers will shoot the price over $4.00 again before the elections (OK, maybe over Labor Day weekend). They can't afford volatile, angry voters. If we get a completely new Congress, the bribe machine will have to go into overdrive!

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Amos
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 11:07 AM

DV:

IF you think Obama has not been speaking to the issues of the economy, you may have the sound turned off on your TV and been reading with your eyes closed or something.

IF you want to know what his positions on the issue are, havwe you tried to look them up on the Obama website? I think you'll find them there.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 11:28 AM

Amos, political discussions with you might be likened to talking with a brick wall.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Amos
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 11:33 AM

Well, I am not so sure of that. If you tried raising some specifics, you might be surprised. I have been around enough blocks to have some developed views of how people work and what they do; but I am open to learning the error of my ways, if you can provide specifics.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: DougR
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 12:45 PM

LH: Read my post again. I did NOT say our economy is in super condition. We are experiencing lots of problems. I'm merely pointing out that the economy is NOT at rock bottom like the doomsayers like to report.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 01:02 PM

And specifically what has Obama has said about "issues of the economy" Please give us an example from your wealth of infinite knowledge.

I know you wouldn't send us elsewhere to find the proof of your claims ourselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: DougR
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 02:41 PM

Amos: Rock wall? :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 02:46 PM

I agree with you, Doug, it's not at rock bottom. Rock bottom is a long way off yet, and let's hope we never get there.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: DougR
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 07:48 PM

On that we are in agreement, Little Hawk, my friend (as John McCain might say) :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:08 PM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/08/31/eaarctic131.xml

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:09 PM

This is all part & parcel of the same problem - the wretched banks:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/08/31/eaarctic131.xml

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:12 PM

Rock bottom is 2 years off.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:12 PM

Oops, sorry, wrong link, this is what it should be:

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/dispatches/how+the+banks+never+lose/2425927

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:54 PM

Yeah, all of this could give rise to another Hitler!

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 11:33 AM

Amazing what's happened since the last comment on here!

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 11:40 AM

I assume that this is the correct place to politely ask Bobert to clarify the source of his matter of fact comment "The US is getting more and more like Haiti with 1% holding all the wealth" without being accused of making a personal attack.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Stringsinger
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 12:40 PM

the most amazing thing is that some Americans are shooting themselves in the foot,
continuing the disaster-practice of Bush/McCain.

They blame immigrants, communists, terrorists, and every one else for their idiotic
decisions in the voting booth.

Many Americans have been brain-washed into thinking unions are bad, Walmart is great,
China is our friend, and the classic one now is the mind-boggling statement,
"The fundamentals of our economy are strong".

McCain has Gramm to chastize us as "whiners". McCain is no friend to the American
worker.

If McCain is elected, I predict another major depression in the US.

This government needs to cap the salaries of the robber-CEOs who bankrupt their firms and steal from the taxpayer.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 12:40 PM

I wonder how those who have been ridiculing this thread have fared in the recent downturn.

Still inclined to ridicule the basic premise of the thread?

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Amos
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 12:59 PM

DV and Sawz:

Are you guys really so lazy or moribund uin your thinking that you can't find out for yourself what Obama's economic platform consists of? For shame. How lazy andf ill-informed do you dare let yourself become, as a citizen? It demonstrates the crudest indifference to the nature of the democratic process. Really.

1: Barack Obama Speech on Improving America's Prosperity. Read here.

2: Barack Obama's Retirement Security Proposal. Read here.

3: Barack Obama's Urban Poverty Proposal. Read here.

4: Barack Obama's Economic Proposal for Rural America. Read here.

4a. Clip from Barack Obama's Rural Summit. Watch here.

5: Barack Obama's Social Security Proposal. Read here.

6: Barack Obama's Speech/Proposals on Strengthening America's Families in a New Economy. Read here.

7: Barack Obama's Speech on America's Tax Policy. Read here.

8. Video of Barack Obama's Tax Fairness Speech. Watch here.

9: Barack Obama's Plan for Technological Innovation. Read here.

10. Video of Obama's Speech on Technological Innovation. Watch here.

11: Barack Obama Interview on America's Housing Industry. Read here.

12. Obama presented an economic stimulus plan week.   Read here.

13.  January speech on "Being Ready on Day One". Read Obama’s speech here.

14. Obama discusses the Economic Crisis. View here

Now you don't have to wave your arms in ignorance any longer. Congratulations.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Amos
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:01 PM

See also this summary page of Obama economic proposals if your are still dogged by you own laziness.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:26 PM

Nice reference links to actual policy Amos

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 03:06 PM

"They blame immigrants, communists, terrorists, and every one else for their idiotic decisions in the voting booth."


                   I don't know why they'd blame communists and terrorists...

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Peace
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 03:11 PM

From chaos comes new-found opportunities--for those with lotsa money. Such has been the game plan for decades. No, over a century. Look to the New World Order. The accumulation of wealth is being used to destroy our planet, to enslave common people. None of this is news. Has it struck anyone that the timing of this latest 'collapse' comes near an election?

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 05:19 PM

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Stocks plummeted Wednesday, with the Dow industrials falling 449 points in its second worst session of the year, as the government's emergency rescue of AIG amplified fears about the stability of financial markets.

The selloff comes in the wake of the government's bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Lehman Brothers' bankruptcy, Merrill Lynch's sale to Bank of America and ongoing worries about Washington Mutual and other firms.

"There's a fear of a financial system meltdown going on, and it's grounded in the headlines we're seeing about the series of firms that are in trouble," said Paul Rabbit, president of Rabbit Capital Management.

On The Newshour (PBS) last night all three of the financial experts on the show thought things would keep getting worse for another year anyway (one of them thought that was optimistic, he had a very dour outlook).

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 05:46 PM

DougR's posts throughout this thread are a wonderful example of how to sleepwalk to disaster. When will the US economy hit the bottom, Doug? How will we know?? It is now more than a year since you found it necessary to tell us your portfolio was down $17,000 - but would pick up again. Do come back and tell us you've made good the loss. Don't be reticent. And reassure me again that any talk of economic troubles ahead is horse-pucky. Oh, and just run once more through that bit about how a recession has to precede a crash....

To be serious, I am pleased that this thread is on the record.
It shows exactly how predictable - and predicted - this whole crisis was.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 05:57 PM

They blamed communists in the 50's. They red baited all sorts of people.

Look at the Sam's Club Republicans today spanking proud of their (Red)Chinese Walmart with cheap products made by women who had forced abortions by the State each time one of them had more tahn one child, unless the women paid a half years salry penalty.

The Robber Barons call anyone who might interfere with their wholsale theft.

Today we might be called liberals...
There is no such thing as liberals.

Perhaps the northern founding fathers were liberals but the coinage of the words Commie, traitor, trouble maker, and now today "Liberal" has been completely forced on people by robber barons, rip off artists and megalomaniacs.

When Mine owners abused miners to death, the workers and wives organized, only to have Bosses hire Pinkerton Guards who shot them dead. Some of those abused miners wore red bandanas and were later called red necks.

When farmers lost farms and prices for their crops they organized and marched on the Capitol steps and were shot dead.

When Martin Luther King...you get the idea.

Whoever is getting the short end of the stick through no cause of their own, except for needing work, they get red baited, gooned, spied on or killed.

What ever we are being called, you can bet the name callers have a financial reason for making us their enemy.

If ya keep half the people distracted at church and the other half bein spit on and lied about, you stand a pretty good chance of exploiting the whole lot.

I don't hold to that kind of bullying, stealing and killing.
It takes more than guns to kill a man.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 06:06 PM

Well, Donuel, I agree with a lot of what you say here, especially the "distracted at church" part.

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: DougR
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 06:10 PM

ARghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! There goes the sky again! Capitalism is DEAD! If you don't believe that, just ask a liberal.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Amos
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 06:17 PM

Doug R:

That is complete horse puckey.

However, the extent to which capitalism has been allowed by your favorite squad of deadheads to become corrupt and toxic to its own environment by the self-serving and sightless members of your loyal party has to be noticed even by the slow and the obstinate such as your candidate.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 08:12 PM

Capitalism isn't dead. But its limitations are becoming very apparent at this point in time.